Draggng Knees

A guy I work with races bikes and is pretty mch a big $&*# talker, he said that he was really impressed that I was able to drag my knee on a "can-o-tuna" who else out there has been able to drag a knee on a VFR?

BoyfromTN, Sep 21 2006, 11:02 PM A guy I work with races bikes and is pretty mch a big $&*# talker, he said that he was really impressed that I was able to drag my knee on a "can-o-tuna" who else out there has been able to drag a knee on a VFR?

Uh, a can-o-tuna is a Suzuki Katana.
I drag my knees in most turns now, even with heavily loaded Givi trunk... fing02.gif

I've heard a VFR called a lot of things, but everyone knows a Can-o-tuna is a Katana. - and yes my knee has been down.

See Jeremy's avatar. 'Nuff said. I can drag a knee on my son's CRF70. It just isn't as impossible as some people think.

offtopic.gif What are some good resources to help any rider put his knee down?

Track days.

Once you are leaning far enough in every corner, just hang both butt cheeks of the seat and stick that knee out. It quickly becomes very comfortable and fun and lets you know at any given time how close you are to your limits.

BoyfromTN, Sep 21 2006, 08:02 PM
who else out there has been able to drag a knee on a VFR?

Does a RVF count???

Rarely have I touched a knee puck on the street... it's not a part of my riding plans...

The knee basically serves as a maximum "lean angle gauge"... racers drag a knee to answer the question to
how far can I lean the bike quickly with out thinking... but how far you can lean is a question that can also be
answered by years of experience with your machine... what I see on the street is that a rider's knee will be
down way before they reach maximum safe angle... hey it looks cool... but in a way dragging a knee may
become a barrier to lower lap times if they ever actually take to a track and race...

I have touched, and can just about any time on right handers. However, due to physical abuse on my body over the years, my hips limit my flexibility. That means that I can't stick my knees out very far. I tend to hit the pegs soon after my right knee touches. My left hip is much worse and I always hit the peg before my knee touches. Yes, this occurs even when I hang way off the bike. It's a flexibility problem, not technique or lean angle. Because of that, I don't fool with trying to touch my knees now that I know I can. All this could easily be cured with a set of rearsets for clearance, but it's not worth fooling with, IMHO.

I've dragged knee on a 250 Interceptor in a parking lot going 15mph.

You can drag knee on just about any bike. There is a big difference between trying to drag knee, and going so fast that it just happens. Generally, if someone brags about it, it's because they try to do it, they don't need to do it.

The funniest is when you'll behind someone that thinks they are all fast and they are hanging off the bike with their knee sticking out at a 90 degree angle relative to their bike (Should be more like 30-45 degrees at the most) like an outrigger on a Polynesian War Canoe, and you're right behind them not getting knee, and you still have plenty of steering left as it is not the kind of corner or the speed is not high enough to necessitate getting knee. I see it all the time.

Tyrmeltr, Sep 22 2006, 08:49 AM
I've dragged knee on a 250 Interceptor in a parking lot going 15mph.

You can drag knee on just about any bike. There is a big difference between trying to drag knee, and going so fast that it just happens. Generally, if someone brags about it, it's because they try to do it, they don't need to do it.

The funniest is when you'll behind someone that thinks they are all fast and they are hanging off the bike with their knee sticking out at a 90 degree angle relative to their bike (Should be more like 30-45 degrees at the most) like an outrigger on a Polynesian War Canoe, and you're right behind them not getting knee, and you still have plenty of steering left as it is not the kind of corner or the speed is not high enough to necessitate getting knee. I see it all the time.

+1.gif goofy.gif

I drag my knees while riding a four wheeler. cool.gif

But seriously, I've found that even with my semi-amateur riding skill, when I hang off the bike a little bit, and stick my knees out, I have a lot more confidence.

See my avatar...well, OK my knee touched down just after the picture. I drag about a third to half the time in twisties.

EDIT: BLS was right about the safety indicator. I know that if my knee touches and I still need more, then my pegs will touch very quickly after and I need to let off the throttle a bit.

I don't think that kind of hooligan activity is accetable.

biggrin.gif


[image: IPB Image]
touch down we have contact

Way back in the Agostini days no-one rode with their knees down. Along came the seventies and eighties and superbike class racebikes where essentially hotrodded street bikes (not like the modern sportbikes we have today). Cornering clearance was at a premium so people like Eddie Lawson found he could get faster corner speeds by lowering his center of gravity by hanging-off and also using his knee to guage lean angle with the added benefit of (maybe) holding the bike up from low-siding if he went too far. Now, street sport bikes have much better tires with lots of cornering clearance and this technique is not necessary for fast street riding, more of an attempt to impress your friends and yourself really. The problem with hanging-off is that you have to momentarily shift your weight (body english) just as your entering a turn which affects bike handling and if not done properly, your line through the corner, not a good thing! I know that on my '02 R1 yamaha I can lean till my toe touches without hanging-off and that is a good indicator of how much tire is left at the rear. Granted that the R-1 has much more tire and clearance than the VFR but if a peg touches on the R-1 I know to backoff as the big hurt is near!

[image: IPB Image]

Notice he has the knee out slightly and is hanging slightly off the bike. ( I espcially like the elbow touch) I can't see him going the same speed that requires this position and lean without hanging off some. I would expect a low side from dragging hard parts if he tried to stay centered in the seat.

stewbrew69, Sep 22 2006, 08:02 AM
[image: IPB Image]

Notice he has the knee out slightly and is hanging slightly off the bike. ( I espcially like the elbow touch) I can't see him going the same speed that requires this position and lean without hanging off some. I would expect a low side from dragging hard parts if he tried to stay centered in the seat.

The knee is out at an acceptable angle.

It's when I'm riding and I see people with their knee out at 90 degrees, and they are making their knee come to the ground, not making the ground come to them, that's when I'm not impressed. It's unecessary.

Oh, a note about that pic - It's a slightly deceptive, as the corner is has a bank to it, and the curb is raised. Impressive nonetheless, but the elbow wouldn't be touching without the curb. IIRC the first rider I ever saw do that was Pierfrancesco Chili way back when.

I've touched my knee's down twice on my VFR's, both times were Crashes! blink.gif
True! beer.gif

Tyrmeltr, Sep 22 2006, 05:11 PM
It's when I'm riding and I see people with their knee out at 90 degrees, and they are making their knee come to the ground, not making the ground come to them, that's when I'm not impressed. It's unecessary.

That's why I don't fool with it. The VFR drags hard stuff waaaaaay before you can drag a knee unless you stick your knee waaaay out there (or do some modifications). I'm just not that flexible so it's a somewhat painful effort for me to get my knee down before grinding pegs and headers. After doing it a few times for my own personal pleasure, I stopped trying all together. I still slide over a bit and stick my knee out a little just because it feels natural, but I don't stick it way out to try to touch the ground with it.

tbzep, Sep 22 2006, 03:39 PM
That's why I don't fool with it. The VFR drags hard stuff waaaaaay before you can drag a knee unless you stick your knee waaaay out there (or do some modifications). I'm just not that flexible so it's a somewhat painful effort for me to get my knee down before grinding pegs and headers. After doing it a few times for my own personal pleasure, I stopped trying all together. I still slide over a bit and stick my knee out a little just because it feels natural, but I don't stick it way out to try to touch the ground with it.

Almost a +1.gif I still want knee pucks so I'll have the confidence to let my knee touch naturally on the rare occasions when I'm hanging off and trying to keep hard parts off the ground. Admittedly, that's not often, but enough that I want pucks.

After grinding the feeler pins to nothing and finally removing them I continued to grind the foot pegs. I was able to come to the point where I could drag my knee and still grind the foot pegs. So, I think we all have determined that yes you can drag your knee on a VFR but are you doing it properly could be a better question.
[image: IPB Image]
gmr gmr

Tyrmeltr, Sep 22 2006, 06:11 PM
The knee is out at an acceptable angle.

It's when I'm riding and I see people with their knee out at 90 degrees, and they are making their knee come to the ground, not making the ground come to them, that's when I'm not impressed. It's unecessary.

I have seen what you are saying. There are people that hang of enough that they are looking at the road through the lower side of their mirrors (i.e. they have to look under their mirrors to see where they are going). I was just trying to debunk the statement that was made earlier that shifting your center of gravity doesn't help you (or the bike) get thru turns more efficiently.

I wore out a set of new pucks in no time. Getting my knee down for the hell of out slows me down big time. I am alot smoother if I dont think about it and it just happens.

thom, Sep 22 2006, 04:15 PM
After grinding the feeler pins to nothing and finally removing them I continued to grind the foot pegs. I was able to come to the point where I could drag my knee and still grind the foot pegs. So, I think we all have determined that yes you can drag your knee on a VFR but are you doing it properly could be a better question.
[image: IPB Image]
gmr gmr

I'm looking at that pic, and the riders body position just looks a little off.
I'm thinking the right shoulder needs to come down a few inches. Knee down, but elbow high. unsure.gif

I've ground the pegs, header, and fairing at the track. But not the knee, so what do I know. biggrin.gif

most likely if you are dragging your knee on the streets, you are also riding with piss-poor riding form and technique. I suggest a good riding school so you learn to handle the bike better and dont look so squidly.

Tyrmeltr, Sep 22 2006, 05:11 PM
It's when I'm riding and I see people with their knee out at 90 degrees, and they are making their knee come to the ground, not making the ground come to them, that's when I'm not impressed. It's unecessary.

I like to keep my knee out at a 90 degree angle sometimes. When it's hot outside it redirects the air to cool off my crotch!! goofy.gif

Fretka, Sep 22 2006, 06:58 AM
The problem with hanging-off is that you have to momentarily shift your weight (body english) just as your entering a turn which affects bike handling and if not done properly, your line through the corner, not a good thing!

You bring up a common mistake of novices... namely trying to hang off and steer the bike at the same
moment, it's a mistake that can only serve to upset the bike and cause a wiggle at the important turn in point...
The correct way I was taught was to slide my butt off to one side well before the actual steering input, before I
roll off the gas or even squeeze the brakes...

This illustrates my style... I keep my knee high... not low where it will drag... it's something I learned studying
the master... Valentino Rossi... 8-)
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I�m not flexible enough to do the 90 degree knee. Mine touches just 1-2 degrees before my pegs without feelers start to scrape.

[image: IPB Image]

VFR4Lee, Sep 22 2006, 10:12 PM
I'm looking at that pic, and the riders body position just looks a little off.
I'm thinking the right shoulder needs to come down a few inches. Knee down, but elbow high. unsure.gif

I've ground the pegs, header, and fairing at the track. But not the knee, so what do I know. biggrin.gif

I'm looking at that pic, and I see a nasty looking guard rail. Which racetrack has those? blink.gif

soichiro, Sep 22 2006, 10:00 PM
I wore out a set of new pucks in no time. Getting my knee down for the hell of out slows me down big time. I am alot smoother if I dont think about it and it just happens.

+1.gif

My knee touched the ground only once.....



now I'm married, have a mortgage and a kid... smile.gif