my wife and i took the vfr out to pennsylvania for a nice tour over the canadian thanksgiving weekend. great weather and we found some nice roads - a lot of new ones too, even though i've been hitting the area at least once a year for years now.
anyway, noticed an interesting phenomenon regarding the often talked about (on this forum) 'chicken strips'.
normally, i ride alone (at least this year, haven't done too much riding with the wife on the back) - and i get my butt out of the seat when pushing through the corners. i feel most comfortable riding this way and certainly when riding hard.
when the wife's on the back, i stay in my seat, for fairly obvious reasons. she's not interested in hanging off through the corners, and i'm not interested in pushing the bike nearly as hard as i would if i was alone.
the result of these two things, somewhat suprisingly, is that i ended up using more of the tire-edge (ie. shrinking the chicken strips) with my wife on the back. i certainly don't putt around the corners just because we're two up (and she's a good passenger), but i was definately at a much slower pace than normal.
just thought i would post this to illustrate to fellow forum members, especially newer riders, that small or non-existant chicken strips don't necessarily make a rider fast and the existence of chicken strips don't necessarily make someone slow. ride at your own pace - work on your form and your own comfort level.
i use that last bit of edge on the tire as a safety margin... if i get into the corner too hot, i can hang off a bit more and i know that there's still a touch more tire left to use up before i'm completely beefed. the track is the only place where i'd purposely go out and use that up.
beer.gif here's to rubber side down, shiny side up.
The purpose of hanging off the bike is to use less bike lean angle to corner at the same radius and speed. So if you don't hang off and travel around the same corner and speed, you will use more tire not hanging off than if you were. To further prove that this wear is correct, I will assume that you didn't change the suspension preload for having your wife on the back, the added weight will make the rear end of the bike squat, causing the tire to have to roll further over to the edge.
Sounds like you guys had a blast, shinny side towards the sun, accept at night.
superchode, Oct 17 2006, 08:15 AM i use that last bit of edge on the tire as a safety margin... if i get into the corner too hot, i can hang off a bit more and i know that there's still a touch more tire left to use up before i'm completely beefed. the track is the only place where i'd purposely go out and use that up.
I think you're assuming that available traction will decrease as the inside edge of the contact patch reaches the edge of the tire. I don't believe this is the case until lean angles become really extreme, and the area of the contact patch becomes significantly reduced. This is probably well beyond when you're dragging pegs or other hard parts on a VFR. You can use your strips as a rough gage for how much you're leaning the bike, but I wouldn't be concerned that if you're losing your strips that you're your getting to a point where you're suddenly going to run out of traction due to being on the edge of the tire.
Now, if you're using a hard-compound (or crappy) tire, or are on a low traction surface, you may not be able to corner up to the edge of the tire without slipping. But that has to do with the available coefficient of friction, not whether the contact patch as begun to reach the edge of the tire.
You're going to lose your strips quicker riding two-up (even at lower speeds) for two reasons: Higher center of gravity and less hanging off means you have to lean the bike more, and more weight on the back of the bike makes the contact patch wider.
chris2992, Oct 17 2006, 03:45 PM The purpose of hanging off the bike is to use less bike lean angle to corner at the same radius and speed. So if you don't hang off and travel around the same corner and speed, you will use more tire not hanging off than if you were. To further prove that this wear is correct, I will assume that you didn't change the suspension preload for having your wife on the back, the added weight will make the rear end of the bike squat, causing the tire to have to roll further over to the edge.
Sounds like you guys had a blast, shinny side towards the sun, accept at night.
not only that, with the added weight, given the same corner, same speed and same line, you will have to lean the bike further to maintain the turn.
fallzboater, Oct 17 2006, 11:57 AM I think you're assuming that available traction will decrease as the inside edge of the contact patch reaches the edge of the tire. I don't believe this is the case until lean angles become really extreme, and the area of the contact patch becomes significantly reduced. This is probably well beyond when you're dragging pegs or other hard parts on a VFR. You can use your strips as a rough gage for how much you're leaning the bike, but I wouldn't be concerned that if you're losing your strips that you're your getting to a point where you're suddenly going to run out of traction due to being on the edge of the tire.
Now, if you're using a hard-compound (or crappy) tire, or are on a low traction surface, you may not be able to corner up to the edge of the tire without slipping. But that has to do with the available coefficient of friction, not whether the contact patch as begun to reach the edge of the tire.
You're going to lose your strips quicker riding two-up (even at lower speeds) for two reasons: Higher center of gravity and less hanging off means you have to lean the bike more, and more weight on the back of the bike makes the contact patch wider.
it's not that i think the tire's going to break loose.. it's that i have more lean angle to resort to if i need it. like i said, in a track setting... it all gets used - on the streets, and especially when exploring new twisties - i don't and wouldn't lean off as much as i would on the track, nor would i use all the tire... i want that extra hang off and extra lean angle handy in case the situation halfway through the corner demands it (as it so often does).
I have had more or less chicken strip size on tires depending on tire brand even. Only bike I've ever had that had the tire used completely from edge to edge was a 2005 CBR1000RR with Perelli Stradas on it. Going up and down Monteagle mountain(know it like my driveway) a little too agressively for me and MY PACE, faster and faster on Saturday mornings. Everything else I've owned is usually 1/4" to sometimes a FULL 1" of strip. I too, in the past have noticed using more tire side when running 2-up with the wife. I have never in the past, present, nor in the future used/ use chicken strips as an indicator of how well I can ride my motorcycle(s), how much fun I'm having,or if I should take up another sport. I have ridden motorcycles for 36, heading toward 37 years and still enjoy it as my FAVORITE thing to do. I have managed(so far) to survive close calls, blow-outs, locked rear wheels with broken chains wrapped around them, etc., etc. for a few 100,000 miles on more bikes/ brands than I can remember. MY PACE and reasons for riding work well for ME. I can guarantee no one on this Site enjoys riding their motorcycle more than I do, and by polls a very teensy amount ride more miles. On the lighter side......I went riding one Sunday morning with Kevin (baileyrock) and Shannon (fantastic folks, if you haven't had the in-person privelage) and they had to ride MY PACE. Probably the best thing about it for them was Shannon could finish her nails and Kevin could finish one last cup of coffee through the twisties at MY PACE......heh, heh, heh. CHICKEN STRIPS mean ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to me whatsoever. Sorry for blowing your cover that sometimes you're seen in public with squidley riders Kevin...........heh, heh, heh.........gotta go, time for rainy lunch break ride...................... goofy.gif ...to every rider on this Site..... beer.gif
superchode, Oct 17 2006, 11:15 AM beer.gif here's to rubber side down, shiny side up.
+1.gif +1.gif
When riding 2up you should always keep in mind that you can't necessarily take the same corner at the same speed you normally do when riding solo (since you're normally hanging off). I've had scary moments before when entering turns 2up by habit at my solo speed. Don't get complacent because you're riding a less aggressive pace.
skuuter, Oct 17 2006, 12:21 PM I have had more or less chicken strip size on tires depending on tire brand even. Only bike I've ever had that had the tire used completely from edge to edge was a 2005 CBR1000RR with Perelli Stradas on it. Going up and down Monteagle mountain(know it like my driveway) a little too agressively for me and MY PACE, faster and faster on Saturday mornings. Everything else I've owned is usually 1/4" to sometimes a FULL 1" of strip. I too, in the past have noticed using more tire side when running 2-up with the wife. I have never in the past, present, nor in the future used/ use chicken strips as an indicator of how well I can ride my motorcycle(s), how much fun I'm having,or if I should take up another sport. I have ridden motorcycles for 36, heading toward 37 years and still enjoy it as my FAVORITE thing to do. I have managed(so far) to survive close calls, blow-outs, locked rear wheels with broken chains wrapped around them, etc., etc. for a few 100,000 miles on more bikes/ brands than I can remember. MY PACE and reasons for riding work well for ME. I can guarantee no one on this Site enjoys riding their motorcycle more than I do, and by polls a very teensy amount ride more miles. On the lighter side......I went riding one Sunday morning with Kevin (baileyrock) and Shannon (fantastic folks, if you haven't had the in-person privelage) and they had to ride MY PACE. Probably the best thing about it for them was Shannon could finish her nails and Kevin could finish one last cup of coffee through the twisties at MY PACE......heh, heh, heh. CHICKEN STRIPS mean ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to me whatsoever. Sorry for blowing your cover that sometimes you're seen in public with squidley riders Kevin...........heh, heh, heh.........gotta go, time for rainy lunch break ride...................... goofy.gif ...to every rider on this Site..... beer.gif
nice post. thanks. that's the kind of response i was fishing for. +1.gif
I dunno, but after seeing those pictures of an inadequately dressed rider and pillon that has been going around the net lately, in the process of lowsiding, gives me the creeps about having a pillion riding at high speeds/fast corners. It could well be that the extra weight on the back of the bike caused a light front end condition that compromised front tire traction which might have hit a small bump mid-turn and resulted in the lowside. Proper suspension/chassis setup for fast two up riding or a few lessons from Randy Mamola might have saved the day for that couple, but for me personally, I'd like to make sure that I first have the skills to do it before pushing to get that last inch of unscrubbed rubber off my tire with a passenger on board. JMO
Beck, Oct 17 2006, 11:30 AM I dunno, but after seeing those pictures of an inadequately dressed rider and pillon that has been going around the net lately, in the process of lowsiding, gives me the creeps about having a pillion riding at high speeds/fast corners. It could well be that the extra weight on the back of the bike caused a light front end condition that compromised front tire traction which might have hit a small bump mid-turn and resulted in the lowside. Proper suspension/chassis setup for fast two up riding or a few lessons from Randy Mamola might have saved the day for that couple, but for me personally, I'd like to make sure that I first have the skills to do it before pushing to get that last inch of unscrubbed rubber off my tire with a passenger on board. JMO
Beck 95 VFR
Definetly takes some chassis tune adjustments, and I always take a "little" practice run with the wife and cargo before striking out on the actual trip. Helps that the wife rode several thousand miles/ years on the back with me before learning to ride her own bike. I never run (especially into corners) as fast 2-up as by myself.....not even on familiar roads. Too many variables on board in a quick-decision situation..... fing02.gif beer.gif
Beck, Oct 17 2006, 09:30 AM I dunno, but after seeing those pictures of an inadequately dressed rider and pillon that has been going around the net lately, in the process of lowsiding.
If you are referring to the one with the girl in flip flops - Crossing the centerline and hitting the painted line with the front tire probably didn't help!
dirtbag, Oct 17 2006, 03:57 PM not only that, with the added weight, given the same corner, same speed and same line, you will have to lean the bike further to maintain the turn.
Damn, now I can't get the image of a fat guy on a Harley going around a turn out of my head.
d-rock, Oct 17 2006, 11:02 PM If you are referring to the one with the girl in flip flops - Crossing the centerline and hitting the painted line with the front tire probably didn't help!
Keep the rubber side down! -D
Yup! What really hurts seeing is her foot, soooo protected by those cheap flip-flops, is seen already getting dragged off the passenger footpeg, by her tarmac grinding toes in the second pictures blink.gif There goes her nice manicure....and maybe a few of her toes too sad.gif Anyone ever found out how these two came out of their accident? It's too late now, the damge has been done..............................................if only the driver cared enough to have his pillon dress up with at least the minimum amount of body protection. Now he will have to live with the guilt for the most likely, permanent physical and emotional damage he's done to her.
Beck 95 VFR
End of thread · 13 posts recoveredWayback Machine snapshot 18 Oct 2006