Has anyone tried to mold and build a different tail light section for the 5th gens to replace the whole are of the tail light? I have a little work under my belt with composites making plugs and molds and was thinking about tackling this sort of project at some point. I just don't have any of the materials like a vacuum pump, bagging, release agents, fiberglass, etc. yet. I pondered and thought that if one could take out the light and put in a newer, sleeker assembly, it would greatly improve the looks of the tail, especially with an undertail. Has anyone tried it before or even thought about it? Right now I am trying to get ideas on which sort of lights I could use that would be easy to mold around. Maybe with some R6 lights like these:
How about trying to fit a rear end, complete with subframe, from an 04+ R1? Undertail exhausts!! Add a Clear Alternatives integrated taillight for a real sleek look! :goofy:
I like Sebspeed's approach. Get the rear subframe from anything, say a CBR1100XX, and get a undertail from 1tail.com. They have some that are really sleek and all LED lights.
Or just get the undertail and the stock plastics and put them together over your stock subframe. May have to make a few little brackets for attachment, but thats easy.
If you WANT to make your own, I wpould start with blue foam and carve your own. Lay fiberglass over that, remove the foam (carve or gasoline, melt it out), and voila, your won design. Add some lights and your ready to go.
Show us the results.
Larry
VFRrider
Beast is out for paint, suspension being rebuilt. :goofy:
93 got her front legs, now all I need is a little time for putting the body back on. Pics to come soon. Stayed tuned to the Bat Channel for updates. :D
[image: View Post]SEBSPEED, on Dec 7 2006, 11:24 AM, said:
How about trying to fit a rear end, complete with subframe, from an 04+ R1? Undertail exhausts!! Add a Clear Alternatives integrated taillight for a real sleek look! :goofy:
:lurk:
Like this one? http://www.1tail.com...ges/l/16305.JPG That would be a sweet lookin ride. But too expensive for me.
[image: View Post]chris2992, on Dec 7 2006, 11:28 AM, said:
It would probably be easier to buy the f4i undertail and mold the two peices together.
Yeah that could be an option.
[image: View Post]vfrrider, on Dec 7 2006, 11:38 AM, said:
I like Sebspeed's approach. Get the rear subframe from anything, say a CBR1100XX, and get a undertail from 1tail.com. They have some that are really sleek and all LED lights.
Or just get the undertail and the stock plastics and put them together over your stock subframe. May have to make a few little brackets for attachment, but thats easy.
If you WANT to make your own, I wpould start with blue foam and carve your own. Lay fiberglass over that, remove the foam (carve or gasoline, melt it out), and voila, your won design. Add some lights and your ready to go.
Show us the results.
Replacing the subframe is something that I consider that would take a lot of work (and cash), re-routing wires, new exhaust bracket, and everything else that goes with it. But it probably would give the best results. As far as getting another bike's plastics to actually fitting over the subframe and covering all of it to the tip would be nothing short of amazing if it worked. Then you have to make the seat work with the tail of another bike or replace the seat, then you may as well have replaced the subframe too. Carving foam was my original idea, but i don't know if the results would turn out well.
[image: View Post]V4 Rosso, on Dec 7 2006, 01:42 PM, said:
Don't know anything about this taillight, only that it is a one-off. Just to give you some idea.
[image: Posted Image] [image: Posted Image] [image: Posted Image]
I want to do something like that, but different. I don't really care for the look of that one. It may look wierd no matter what because the shape of the tail is kind of oddly shaped anyway. This is definitely going to take a lot of thought so it probably will be a while before I actually do anything.
[image: View Post]V4 Rosso, on Dec 7 2006, 02:42 PM, said:
Don't know anything about this taillight, only that it is a one-off. Just to give you some idea.
[image: Posted Image]
That taillight is from a CBR954RR, and it would certainly look better in a slimmer tail.
If you don't ride two-up much, going with a new subframe would actually be your easiest way out. It beats the heck out of sanding fiberglass for hours, I can tell you that!!
Your main concern there would be making some type of adaptor, to weld onto the new subframe, which should be engineered to then bolt to the existing mounts on the frame of the bike.
You need to pick one, then determine where it should sit in relation to the rest of the bike for 1) seating position and 2) fit-up to the rest of the bike. You can always re-shape and re-upholster the seatpan to match your tank, and you could make small fiberglass or ABS plastic filler pieces to cover any voids.
The R1 tail you linked is nice, but that Hotbodies exhaust is ridiculously expensive!!
Check this guy's site out for some inspiration, especially under the 'projects' tab, at the top left in primer black is a 1992 ZX-7R, with MV Agusta F4 front body, R1 tail, SSS'arm, PVM wheels, twin nitrous tanks where the exhaust cans should be, USD forks, etc, etc, etc. Sick bike. Anything can be done with enough time! :thumbsup:
You guys with your 5th gens that want to mod the look. <_<
Personally, I think they are the sweetest design of all gens. Actually, I'm looking for a local 5th gen to lay a mold of paper-mâché over the front 'n rear. (I haven't told George or Loni that I'll be visiting soon..)
I own a boat/kayak building company and utilize vac bagging and exotic fibers/epoxies, but I don't know how many one-off molds I've made with paper-mâché. It's fast, cheap, and nontoxic[/b][/i]! Made thin enough with newspaper/several molds taken off different bikes/cut up and taped together/reinforced with paper-mâché of grocery bags and cut up toiletpaper or papertowel tubes..
If any of you do mod your 5th gens, I am looking for stock head 'n taillamp assys..
And I have a couple of recipes for paper-mâché and some suggestions for layup schedules.
JMO, but I think clear lights look really cheap. It just brings images of "F&F car tuner fanbois" who, for some reason really took a liking to them.
I think amber and red rear lights and signals still look better on cars and bikes. I can't figure out why the trend towards clear, plasticky looking light lenses keep going on and on. I feel the same way about smoked lenses too...yuk! JMO.
Beck
95 VFR - You can't buy clears for it.....and I'm glad!
[image: View Post]Beck, on Dec 8 2006, 08:29 AM, said:
JMO, but I think clear lights look really cheap. It just brings images of "F&F car tuner fanbois" who, for some reason really took a liking to them.
I think amber and red rear lights and signals still look better on cars and bikes. I can't figure out why the trend towards clear, plasticky looking light lenses keep going on and on. I feel the same way about smoked lenses too...yuk! JMO.
Beck
95 VFR - You can't buy clears for it.....and I'm glad!
Ditto!
[image: View Post]SEBSPEED, on Dec 7 2006, 02:25 PM, said:
That taillight is from a CBR954RR, and it would certainly look better in a slimmer tail.
If you don't ride two-up much, going with a new subframe would actually be your easiest way out. It beats the heck out of sanding fiberglass for hours, I can tell you that!!
Your main concern there would be making some type of adaptor, to weld onto the new subframe, which should be engineered to then bolt to the existing mounts on the frame of the bike.
You need to pick one, then determine where it should sit in relation to the rest of the bike for 1) seating position and 2) fit-up to the rest of the bike. You can always re-shape and re-upholster the seatpan to match your tank, and you could make small fiberglass or ABS plastic filler pieces to cover any voids.
The R1 tail you linked is nice, but that Hotbodies exhaust is ridiculously expensive!!
Check this guy's site out for some inspiration, especially under the 'projects' tab, at the top left in primer black is a 1992 ZX-7R, with MV Agusta F4 front body, R1 tail, SSS'arm, PVM wheels, twin nitrous tanks where the exhaust cans should be, USD forks, etc, etc, etc. Sick bike. Anything can be done with enough time! :thumbsup:
Borderline Cycle :warranty:
BONER - oops, pardon my French :goofy:
Officially call me an idiot and learn from my mistakes. Don't put your tail light into a 230 degree oven. It sort of...melts. :goofy: I had it in for 200 and seemed fine. I was trying to get the silicone that holds the light housing and the lens together to soften so that I could separate them. I took it out after about 10-15 minutes in 200 degrees and the silicone was starting to get soft. I should have tried to separate it then. But nooooo, I figured 35 more degrees wouldn't hurt and would make an easy separation. :rolleyes: When I brought it back out at 235, the lens was softened as well as the silicone. :blink: The little rectangular plastic insert piece on the bottom was the worst being that it was made of a different sort of plastic. It warped completely out of shape and after handling it, I ended up pulling it completely out because it was almost like silly putty at that point. Then I peeled the lens away pretty easily using the open area as a handle. The lens warped inward only slightly on the bottom. It's really hard to tell. It's slavageable although the insert is not. Then as I pulled the lens off, it scraped off some of the silver lining on the housing inside where the lights were. It's not very reflective so it looks like I could touch it up with some chrome spray paint or something if I needed to re-use it. Now you're probably asking why I would want to separate the two. The reason: the housing is already conformed to the shape of the tail around the edge and it has all of the stock mounting points on it. The center of the housing has a rearward curvature which is what I am shooting for. So I figured that I could cut off parts of the housing that I didn't need and build fiberglass over the outside to reshape it to give it that more modern look while still retaining stock mountig points. The only bad thing now is that since I sort of mutilated the original tail light, I am going to have to see this through or end up buying another light down the road. In hindsight, I should have bought an old/broken light instead. <_<
[image: View Post]okiengr, on Jan 8 2007, 05:05 PM, said:
In hindsight, I should have bought an old/broken light instead. <_<
Damn! I have a broken one from push reversing my bike into a handrail. New one sure ain't cheap. Interesting project; though I have grown to like the fat ass on the 5th gen (fenderectomy is essential).
Well, it looks like learning is occurring . Your thermal disaster is only the tip of the iceberg compared to a mold/ layup project.
Like EX TZ, I do some vacuum bagging of carbon/ kevlar related to racing canoes. I have just enough knowledge to be dangerous. If we were in San Quintan for 40 years, it might be a feasible project, otherwise fitting something already in existence is the best approach.
Other than paint, if you want a "cutting edge" looking bike, start saving your money and sanity - those 1098's aren't that expensive.
I too , feel the rear is a bit " klunky" looking but will live with it, or change my VIN . One idea that I have toyed with is laying some Tapeworks silver in a triangular shape to form a visual line from frame beam to back corner of the rider's seat. Maybe a sliver of their carbon look from the V the lens makes forward and down.
[image: View Post]tok tokkie, on Jan 8 2007, 04:47 PM, said:
...... Interesting project; though I have grown to like the fat ass on the 5th gen (fenderectomy is essential).
Kind of like a bird a bit big in the beam but who always comes through for you and is capable of kicking the hell out of skinny "model"chicks.
" You go on and watch the 'Boks love, I'll just finish cleaning these fish and wash the boat. "
Kind of like a bird a bit big in the beam but who always comes through for you and is capable of kicking the hell out of skinny "model"chicks.
" You go on and watch the 'Boks love, I'll just finish cleaning these fish and wash the boat. "
[/quote]
:goofy: :rolleyes: :blink:
[image: View Post]tok tokkie, on Jan 8 2007, 10:47 AM, said:
[image: View Post]okiengr, on Jan 8 2007, 05:05 PM, said:
In hindsight, I should have bought an old/broken light instead. <_<
Damn! I have a broken one from push reversing my bike into a handrail. New one sure ain't cheap. Interesting project; though I have grown to like the fat ass on the 5th gen (fenderectomy is essential).
You want to sell it? I can still make my old one work if needed. I would still rather use a spare.
"So I figured that I could cut off parts of the housing that I didn't need and build fiberglass over the outside to reshape it..."
Prolly not gonna stick, and leak like a siv. Honestly, you are prolly better off making a mold, plug, reshape, remold. Do you have any photoshop pics, of what you have in mind?
[image: View Post]okiengr, on Dec 7 2006, 12:12 PM, said:
[image: Posted Image]
At first I just wanted to mock this monstrosity, but the more I look at it, the more I realize it would look pretty good with only a thin LED array between the two round lenses, and it would probably look really good in profile, too, especially with Wolf exhaust tips sticking out beneath it.
[image: View Post]okiengr, on Jan 8 2007, 10:22 PM, said:
[image: View Post]tok tokkie, on Jan 8 2007, 10:47 AM, said:
[image: View Post]okiengr, on Jan 8 2007, 05:05 PM, said:
In hindsight, I should have bought an old/broken light instead. <_<
Damn! I have a broken one from push reversing my bike into a handrail. New one sure ain't cheap. Interesting project; though I have grown to like the fat ass on the 5th gen (fenderectomy is essential).
You want to sell it? I can still make my old one work if needed. I would still rather use a spare.
You can have it. PM me your address & it is yours. Only the red bit is broken.
[image: View Post]Rivcyko, on Jan 8 2007, 05:01 PM, said:
"So I figured that I could cut off parts of the housing that I didn't need and build fiberglass over the outside to reshape it..."
Prolly not gonna stick, and leak like a siv. Honestly, you are prolly better off making a mold, plug, reshape, remold. Do you have any photoshop pics, of what you have in mind?
Yeah I was a little concerned about it not sticking as well. I could put holes in it and glass on the back side to create a bond to hold it into place. Or mold, plug, reshape, remold as you said. I was just thinking that if I could use the stock mounting points, that would be a big plus. As far as leaking like a siv, I'm not sure what you mean. I'm assuming you are talking about when vacuum bagging. Probably nothing about the way I will do this will be correct for laying up glass. I had done some layups before for another bike I had in which I didn't have any vacuum bagging but those were more flat pieces than contoured. I also have built moulds for fiberglass/carbon contoured layups for small R/C airplanes for a senior Engineering Design project. They had a great composites lab but I don't have access to anything like that anymore. I would have to buy all my own stuff. I would need foam for the plug, then there's a sandable material you put over the plug, a release agent, a mold material that you pour over the plug, fiberglass, resin, perforated release film, breather cloth, a vacuum pump, bagging material, sealant tape, bagging connector, scales, etc. I figure that's quite a bit of money for all that. I suspect if I did do something of the sort I would make a mold that I could repeatedly use and make extras to sell to people on the board (if it turned out nice and if they wanted them) to get some money back out of it. It really is the best (and may be the only) way to do this. Maybe I'll look into the cost of all that and consider. The fiance might knock that idea to left field. She doesn't like motorcycles anyway. <_<
I have plenty of photoshop pics of what I want to do! The only problem is that they are all in my head! I have never played around with photoshop but I really wish I could get some access to it and learn and draw you up what is in my noggin.
Quote
You can have it. PM me your address & it is yours. Only the red bit is broken.
PM'd
[image: View Post]okiengr, on Jan 9 2007, 11:02 AM, said:
[image: View Post]Rivcyko, on Jan 8 2007, 05:01 PM, said:
"So I figured that I could cut off parts of the housing that I didn't need and build fiberglass over the outside to reshape it..."
Prolly not gonna stick, and leak like a siv. Honestly, you are prolly better off making a mold, plug, reshape, remold. Do you have any photoshop pics, of what you have in mind?
Yeah I was a little concerned about it not sticking as well. I could put holes in it and glass on the back side to create a bond to hold it into place. Or mold, plug, reshape, remold as you said. I was just thinking that if I could use the stock mounting points, that would be a big plus. As far as leaking like a siv, I'm not sure what you mean. I'm assuming you are talking about when vacuum bagging. Probably nothing about the way I will do this will be correct for laying up glass. I had done some layups before for another bike I had in which I didn't have any vacuum bagging but those were more flat pieces than contoured. I also have built moulds for fiberglass/carbon contoured layups for small R/C airplanes for a senior Engineering Design project. They had a great composites lab but I don't have access to anything like that anymore. I would have to buy all my own stuff. I would need foam for the plug, then there's a sandable material you put over the plug, a release agent, a mold material that you pour over the plug, fiberglass, resin, perforated release film, breather cloth, a vacuum pump, bagging material, sealant tape, bagging connector, scales, etc. I figure that's quite a bit of money for all that. I suspect if I did do something of the sort I would make a mold that I could repeatedly use and make extras to sell to people on the board (if it turned out nice and if they wanted them) to get some money back out of it. It really is the best (and may be the only) way to do this. Maybe I'll look into the cost of all that and consider. The fiance might knock that idea to left field. She doesn't like motorcycles anyway. <_<
I have plenty of photoshop pics of what I want to do! The only problem is that they are all in my head! I have never played around with photoshop but I really wish I could get some access to it and learn and draw you up what is in my noggin.
Quote
You can have it. PM me your address & it is yours. Only the red bit is broken.PM'd
You have done it before! Cool. May I suggest,......Make your mole of the acrylic section, all the way up to, (slightly past), the mounting piecs of plastic. After you have the plug, re-shaped, re-molded, and have your part, cut the part that you have made, slightly past where the mounting piece joins up , (on the orig. part). (The width of the cutting wheel, that you would be using.) Cut the acrylic piece, off of the mounting piece, (of the orig. part) and mount you new cover, to it. C.A., then re-enforce with epoxy.
"As far as leaking like a siv, I'm not sure what you mean. I'm assuming you are talking about when vacuum bagging.**No. I'm speaking of,...Glass, reguardless if you use epoxy or polyester RESIN, is not going to adhere to acrylic. Even if you did drill holes and back it up, it will more than likley be loose and jogging around on your tail light. Scratching and making hella noise.** Probably nothing about the way I will do this will be correct for laying up glass. I had done some layups before for another bike I had in which I didn't have any vacuum bagging but those were more flat pieces than contoured. I also have built moulds for fiberglass/carbon contoured layups for small R/C airplanes for a senior Engineering Design project. They had a great composites lab but I don't have access to anything like that anymore. I would have to buy all my own stuff. I would need foam for the plug, **No, not large enough to need it. A couple of thick layers of resin and non-stranded mat, should be more than rigid enough.** then there's a sandable material you put over the plug,**Small can of bondo, and sandable primer.** a release agent,** PVA, Sprayed from a wagner power spreyer, (brushed on for that fact). (For this small of a part, pre-coat with carnuba wax. (no need for mold release wax).** a mold material that you pour over the plug, **use your resin, 2 coats. (Polyester resin works best. epoxy will crack)** fiberglass, resin, perforated release film, breather cloth,**Paper towels** a vacuum pump, **Thompson pump, off E-bay. $40.00** bagging material, ** Hefy, Hefty, Hefty** sealant tape** Not needed, bag the whole damn thing**, bagging connector, **Masking tape** scales, etc. **Scale, 16oz, $3.50 at local hardware**"
Supplies for this project, approx. $150.00 Hell, if you make a mold of the mounting piece, you'ld be in business.
Well Riv, it sounds like you know how to go about building this thing. Maybe I'll turn this project over to you! :lol: I'm still thinking about which tail lights I will use. I can get some regular round tail lights like these http://store.58cycle...Code=HB SB BUSA (that busa tail looks a lot like the same shape as a VFR tail to me, just not as wide) or I could go with some like these http://www.1tail.com...7-CB570DEAB142} so the shape could vary some between the two. I don't know which I like best.
That would be a good idea to make a new cover just to attach to the housing. The housing acts as a stiffener for the tail so it really needs to be there. Or there's always trying to fab those mounting points into the cover. Prolly a lot of trial and error going to be happening on this whole thing. The gears in my head keep turning non-stop thinking thinking thinking. I need to get started so I can be done by riding season!
Well got a little started so far. I couldn't find a place that carried 3M #78 adhesive so I had to order it and still waiting on that so I can glue the pieces together. Ordered some lights from 1tail.com as well. Both should be here friday. As soon as I get the adhesive, more shaping will be done.
Here you can see the tail on my custom polystyrene work bench on the floor there. :lol: [image: Posted Image]
Upper portion shaped to fit the outer edge contour of the tail. [image: Posted Image]
Lower edges shaped to outside contour. Just need some adhesive to stick a piece in the center and glue it all together. [image: Posted Image]
I know it looks like crap right now, but soon........
[image: View Post]Rivcyko, on Jan 23 2007, 10:32 PM, said:
HA! You're in trouble now. $$$$$$$$$$ :thumbsup:
Finally, page 2! LOL.
Yeah, you're not kidding about the $$$$$$! I sit and wonder from time to time, "What have I started?! Should I have really gone and done this?" :unsure: But now people sound like they are eagerly awaiting the product so now I'm feeling under the gun and feel I have to finish this thing no matter what! I don't want to make any disappointments.
I finally got my glue and lights in last Friday. I tried to work on it sunday getting all the pieces glued together, but the temperatures were too low in the garage for the glue to dry so I finally had to just let the plug sit inside overnight. Monday I had wedding planning stuff with my fiance, last night I made dinner followed by a movie, though I did get some sanding done before she got home last night. The plug is actually starting to take shape. I have an idea of where I'm putting the tail lights, but I still don't have any blinkers. You guys got any ideas on that? I have one idea, but would like to hear what you have in mind. I guess a picture of the plug would help out. I'll try to get one up later after work.
Edited by okiengr, 24 January 2007 - 07:06 PM.
I'm going to put the tail lights in the middle area of course but I'm not sure about blinkers. I thought about on the outer area or in the middle area toward the bottom outer edges. Throw me your thoughts on where and what type of blinkers.
[image: View Post]okiengr, on Jan 24 2007, 07:08 PM, said:
I'm going to put the tail lights in the middle area of course but I'm not sure about blinkers. I thought about on the outer area or in the middle area toward the bottom outer edges. Throw me your thoughts on where and what type of blinkers.
I vote that you integrate them into your taillights! :thumbsup:
Alright guys, I made some more progress tonight. It took a lot of sanding and a lot of beer :goofy: but this is where I'm at. I'm going to do some more sanding later. My lungs are too full of styrofoam dust for tonight. I would like your opinions on what you think thus far: what you like, would change, etc. All opinions welcome.
[image: View Post]SEBSPEED, on Jan 24 2007, 09:04 PM, said:
[image: View Post]okiengr, on Jan 24 2007, 07:08 PM, said:
I'm going to put the tail lights in the middle area of course but I'm not sure about blinkers. I thought about on the outer area or in the middle area toward the bottom outer edges. Throw me your thoughts on where and what type of blinkers.
I vote that you integrate them into your taillights! :thumbsup:
:goofy:
Depending on the lenses you ordered. If they are small, I would say add seperate turn signals. Are you going to have the brake lenses protrude? (Kind of like the R-1 pics, you posted).
Perhaps 2 light bars on the bottom, (flat area). Consisting of say 8 or so leds each. They could be purchased as units, with covers, defusers and all, at most auto stores.
--OR--
If you have the turn signals in with the brake lights, you could make it part fender eliminater too.
My oh My!!! I can't even wait to see this. I've thought about it a bit from time to time but never "really" considered it. I've always thought anything would be better looking than the 2nd moon phase of a tail light/tail that's stock. Your's already looks better. Will be waiting.
Personally, if I had this chance, I would NOT break the smooth surfaces you have.
I would lay in my LED array (say 4 bars of 2 sets of 8 RED LEDs, for a total of 64 LED's, 2 bars each for brake and running) on the flat, above the plate, like the example above where the plate is as high as possible. That's running and brake.
Plate lights of 2 lights (white) pointed at the plate.
On the sides, 2 sets of 8 AMBER LED's for turn signals (wide beam).
All coveres by a smooth lexan covers, no break. One piece mold via the oven method.
Sorry that this has been painfully slow guys. I am under the gun of wedding planning still lately and my fiance's mother is going to be here all this weekend too. So it looks like another weekend not spent in the garage :rolleyes: . I did manage to get some holes cut and sanded out for the lights though :thumbsup: . I know some of you wanted to see a different setup than what I went with but, I had to go with what I liked best. I did like the thought of having the lights up high like Riv had laid out, but then I would have had to build material back up from where I had already removed it so that was out. I didn't like the thought of a bunch of bar LED's because I pictured an 80's or early 90's bike or something. I think I have seen an older bike that looks like it has a bunch of bars for tail lights or something and I didn't care for the look of it. Cat eyes seem to be popular right now and I like them, therefore, I had to go with that layout. So if you're wondering, YES, I am a biased, selfish bastard for my own ideas! :goofy: I think I am going to leave the rest of the part blank so that if people want them, they can use whatever blinkers they see fit to use. Make cutouts, locate them elsewhere, whatever they want. That way, they can sort of make it unique with their customization and not be stuck with one choice of something they might not want (like two round tail lights <_< ). Anyway, I haven't progressed much further, but it's a step and I wanted to fill you guys in on what was going on. The lights are kind of just dangling in the holes in the pics.
[image: View Post]okiengr, on Jan 31 2007, 09:53 PM, said:
Sorry that this has been painfully slow guys. I am under the gun of wedding planning still lately and my fiance's mother is going to be here all this weekend too. So it looks like another weekend not spent in the garage :rolleyes: . I did manage to get some holes cut and sanded out for the lights though :thumbsup: . I know some of you wanted to see a different setup than what I went with but, I had to go with what I liked best. I did like the thought of having the lights up high like Riv had laid out, but then I would have had to build material back up from where I had already removed it so that was out. I didn't like the thought of a bunch of bar LED's because I pictured an 80's or early 90's bike or something. I think I have seen an older bike that looks like it has a bunch of bars for tail lights or something and I didn't care for the look of it. Cat eyes seem to be popular right now and I like them, therefore, I had to go with that layout. So if you're wondering, YES, I am a biased, selfish bastard for my own ideas! :goofy: I think I am going to leave the rest of the part blank so that if people want them, they can use whatever blinkers they see fit to use. Make cutouts, locate them elsewhere, whatever they want. That way, they can sort of make it unique with their customization and not be stuck with one choice of something they might not want (like two round tail lights <_< ). Anyway, I haven't progressed much further, but it's a step and I wanted to fill you guys in on what was going on. The lights are kind of just dangling in the holes in the pics.
1st,... off they look uneven. (Right looks deeper than than the left).
2nd,...It, IMHO, looks kind of, "smoo-like". How's about making the area encompassing the lenses, more oval?
[image: View Post]Rivcyko, on Jan 31 2007, 09:31 PM, said:
Not to be an a$$,...but I am.
1st,... off they look uneven. (Right looks deeper than than the left).
2nd,...It, IMHO, looks kind of, "smoo-like". How's about making the area encompassing the lenses, more oval?
Hold for pic.
They are uneven. That's why I said that they are "dangling" in there. There is nothing behind the lights holding them in, just an open hole. I still have to make a backing piece.
You'll have to elaborate on "smoo-like". I have no idea what that means.
The area under the lens will be filled in with a license plate and maybe turn signals so it will look less barren than it does now. Is that what you are talking about?
[image: View Post]Rivcyko, on Jan 31 2007, 09:38 PM, said:
LOL. Kind of get what I'm think'n? Build the sides highte, and cut in for the lic. plate.
Kind of, not really. Where you put the plate is practically where I plan on putting it so I don't see any reason in cutting in for the license plate, unless you are talking about to make it flush?
Now, in making the area around the lens more oval, are you talking about taking the sides down a bit? Not sure what you mean.
I say build how you like and and if you want to sell some to other people that like it (im sure there are alot) then good. I wouldnt worry about opinions of others as this is YOUR build ........ Looking great !
Again, here's another update on the notorious "SMOO-TAIL". Thanks for that one Rivcyko. That one stuck like a fly on s$!t in my head. Now all I can think is "smoo-tail" which I don't even know what that means still :goofy: . I opened up the holes more, added the two plugs in the holes and some other stuff on the inside you can't see. This is probably one of the most tedious things I have ever taken on. Making those friggin holes "round" and symmetrical to each other only by finger sanding is a PITA :goofy: . Every curve and corner can only be eye-balled for correctness and that makes it harder when it's a dull rough piece of styrofoam. On top of that, the VFR tail has the oddest shape to work with. I tell you, I have been straining my brain trying to think of how it needs to look and where I need to sand next and crossing my fingers every time I take sandpaper to it hoping that I am doing "the right thing" and not over-sanding. I keep thinking it's only going to get worse, it may not even work, and I should quit while I'm still ahead :wheel: . But if I do that, I'll have to piece back together my old tail light and then I'd have done all this work for nothing. I'm at a crossroads. Anyway, here's the latest pics.
Sweet! If you sand too much off, you can always fill it with bondo or polyester resin. You may actually want to go slightly larger with sanding, and cover the whole thing with polyester resin, once you have it the way you want it.
LOL. I actually meant to type, "schmoo",...[image: Posted Image]
Now that I've totally ruined it , for you,...
Looks GREAT! Fantastic work. Take your time, you'll be fine. Damn, I like it a lot! That looks f#@^'n sweet, dude! Can you tell I'm excited for you? LOL.
[image: View Post]Rivcyko, on Feb 12 2007, 11:12 PM, said:
LOL. I actually meant to type, "schmoo",...[image: Posted Image]
Now that I've totally ruined it , for you,...
BWAHAHAHAHA :lol:
The "schmoo". I get you now. I think I'm gonna have to stamp that logo into it somewhere. That's just funny any way you look at it.
Sorry guys. I have no updated photos for you. I have been on vacation the last 5 days and had been repainting the inside of my house before that. I am still waiting for resin to get here so I can't really go much further until I get that anyway. The last thing I did was add some foam in a couple areas so that it will mount to the screw holes in the top inside of the tail. Hopefully it will work. The weather has warmed up around here so that's good for the resin setting up. I'll fill you in when I progress.
So have you all given up on me yet? Yes, I know. I'm slower than frozen molasses. I am getting somewhat back on track now after being tied down to other obligations and plan to have the mold done next week (fingers crossed) so I can get a part made. I still need my vacuum equipment though, so maybe within two weeks I will be able to get a part completed. The plug is epoxied and sanded so I can bondo it tonight.
Ok, so the bondo thing turned out to be more, MUCH more of a job than I had expected. :wacko: I am absolutely tired of sanding. I'm ready to hire someone. I added bondo to everything, all over the entire surface, just to make sure that any low spots would be filled in. I sanded it all back down, then it wasn't fitting back into the tail right. There was interference somewhere that took 2 days of sanding to figure out. I have finally got it down VERY close to where it needs to be. I still need to take the bottom (underside) face down so that it's all flush and I am still working on getting those holes cleaned up. They have been the biggest pain so far. I'm on my third coat of bondo trying to get them right (or close to). I have to make sure that the inner areas where the lights go are tapered all the way back. Otherwise, if the taper gets bigger on the inner side, the plug won't release from the mold, and I wouldn't be able to make any parts from the mold because they probably wouldn't release either. Ok, so here's pics. Looks about the same as before, although there really was a lot of work behind it.
[image: View Post]okiengr, on Mar 20 2007, 10:53 PM, said:
I am absolutely tired of sanding. I'm ready to hire someone......Referring you to my signature,..... I have to make sure that the inner areas where the lights go are tapered all the way back. Otherwise, if the taper gets bigger on the inner side, the plug won't release from the mold, and I wouldn't be able to make any parts from the mold because they probably wouldn't release either. POINT
Looks sweet. Have you a drum sanding bit, and some misc. shaped stone bits. Remember, with a drum bit, the nut on the end is gonna want to push into the flat surface, (where your lenses would be, on the part). But as long as you keep it negative, it won't matter. DAMN COOL! Keep it up. Worry not, take your time, and it'll be fine. From the back of the mind, have you determined the turn signals?
Yeah, it's nice to see someone doing something a bit different.
It's hard to do stuff like this here, because despite this being a pioneering sort of place, the SafetyNazis™ have really started to load us up with rules'n'regulations. SO, if one wants to change one's lights, no can do, unless they meet the aforementioned ruels'n'regulations.
I don't mind the VifFerraRi's tail, but I'm still working on different front confirminators. The trouble is, they have to be "E" marked, and satisfy some visibility criteria. I was supposed to have been faxed some choices for low-profile LED ones that will do, but they've disappeared into the ether somewhere...
[image: View Post]Rivcyko, on Mar 20 2007, 10:45 PM, said:
Looks sweet. Have you a drum sanding bit, and some misc. shaped stone bits. Remember, with a drum bit, the nut on the end is gonna want to push into the flat surface, (where your lenses would be, on the part). But as long as you keep it negative, it won't matter. DAMN COOL! Keep it up. Worry not, take your time, and it'll be fine. From the back of the mind, have you determined the turn signals?
I know, that 's what I really need. I think I may go buy a dremel soon. My old one crapped out several months ago and I never got another one. It has been really hard to make sharp corners with my finger and a piece of sandpaper. :wacko: I really haven't thought too much about the turn signals yet. I figured they would either be integrated or have attached via the license plate. I would really like to do something like this: http://www.customdyn...ges/dogeye3.gif. The lights I have now are smaller 12 red led's and these are 24 amber and 24 red for a total of 48. They are from http://www.customdyn...e_led_bulbs.htm. Then I would need to get an integrator.
Again, sorry for the delays guys. My wedding has been taking up a lot of time and I haven't touched this project at all for a few weeks. I put my old light back together just so that I could ride to work at least and get in on some of this good riding weather. After this Saturday, April 28, I will no longer be a bachelor, but a married man. I will be entering the world of married life where I will give up all my rights to do whatever the hell I want whenever I want. :D Oh well, it happens to all of us at some point or another. It's a good thing though......well.......that's what I keep telling myself anyway. I know some of you are thinking, "That poor bastard. He's doomed!". But I already understand that's just the way it is and that's the way it's going to go down. Just wish me some luck guys on my (soon to be) new marriage. :goofy:
Don't worry, not a lot will change. Until you have kids anyway... make the most of the time you have (both your own time and your shared time with your new wife) because when the first kid is on the scene, THAT'S when it ALL changes. It's great, but man, it changes...
Hey, I'm 8 months in and it couldn't be better. The wife is actually beginning to ask to ride!!! Good luck and best wishes. Enjoy every second of the day as it will go by in a flash (everyone says it, and it is true).
I know, I know, I know. I've enjoyed being a little lazy here lately. I'm still trying to come up with more excuses :P. I keep telling myself that I will start up again tomorrow, only tomorrow I keep saying the same thing. :goofy:
Well I finally went out a few days ago and bought a new Dremel and it solves pretty much all my problems that I was having by getting into those areas that I couldn't quite get with my fingers. :thumbsup: So now I am getting a big step further. I have touched up my last coat of bondo to areas that needed it and just need the final sand. After that, I make a "lip" around the edge and add a thin coat of epoxy all over and I'm ready for the mold.
I have been very discouraged to ride lately by the wife and I lost a lot of will to do much to the bike because I feel that I won't have it much longer http://www.vfrdiscussion.com/forum/public/style_emoticons/default/sad.gif . I have always wanted to build an old muscle car and she is encouraging me to sell the bike and get one. She doesn't like the bike or me riding it. I pretty much can't go any further on it than 50 miles or she gets really upset that something will happen to me. I wanted to take a great ride out to Memphis with my bro and friends through AR and MO, but was highly discouraged from that so I didn't go. A couple guys from here lost their left legs from passing by each other too close (going opposite directions) and they hit their legs as they passed. Her uncle was directly behind one of those riders and he wrecked as well but with minor injuries. Then there's all these other guys that have died within the last year in motorcycle related crashes that just adds fuel to the fire. But after looking around for the last several weeks at cars, I realized that I won't be able to afford one for a while. So I'm sort of pushing that idea aside for now and concentrating on the bike again. Besides, I can't let my project go half finished and quit!
Did you tell her about the hundreds of people that die in car crashes every day? Muscle car prices have skyrocketed in the past few years. Unless you find one in really bad shape get ready to shell ut major bux.
I have been very discouraged to ride lately by the wife and I lost a lot of will to do much to the bike because I feel that I won't have it much longer
that's harsh... You had the bike before you were married, right? Shouldn't be a surprise to her... <_<
ok, back to regularly scheduled program... Finish the tail! :)
I have been very discouraged to ride lately by the wife and I lost a lot of will to do much to the bike because I feel that I won't have it much longer
I can hear a time bomb ticking here,
very much like a person who decided to commit suicide.
Not a matter anymore of "if" but "when".......... http://www.vfrdiscus...tyle_emoticons/default/sad.gif
You sell your bike to keep your wife happy, clever move you think.
But you WILL look back later, regret it and buy a bike again (typically after the divorce).
Once she realizes you're at her beckoning call, there is no way back.
This is what about you want in life, not your wife, not your parents, not your.....
Wait untill you become a parent (take your time, at 25 you are WAY to young for that :P ); you'll get even more pressure.
Funk that!!! Next thing you'll be aeting vegan only, donot drink beer or not look at other hot looking chicks.
Can I have that bullit now please?
[image: View Post]ss_burns, on Jun 11 2007, 01:54 PM, said:
Quote
I have been very discouraged to ride lately by the wife and I lost a lot of will to do much to the bike because I feel that I won't have it much longer
that's harsh... You had the bike before you were married, right? Shouldn't be a surprise to her... <_<
ok, back to regularly scheduled program... Finish the tail! http://www.vfrdiscussion.com/forum/public/style_emoticons/default/smile.gif
Well I had a bike before we got married that I sold a year before I graduated college. We were dating at the time so she knew I was into bikes. I wanted a 5th gen VFR since 2002 so when I jumped out into the real world and made real money, I figured it was time to get that bike I wanted. I had to talk her into it, she said "OK". Then I found one and gave the guy a deposit and then she says "I didn't think that you were going to get one already!" Like I was going to wait a year or two!
[image: View Post]Dutchy, on Jun 11 2007, 04:31 PM, said:
Quote
I have been very discouraged to ride lately by the wife and I lost a lot of will to do much to the bike because I feel that I won't have it much longer
I can hear a time bomb ticking here,
very much like a person who decided to commit suicide.
Not a matter anymore of "if" but "when".......... http://www.vfrdiscus...tyle_emoticons/default/sad.gif
You sell your bike to keep your wife happy, clever move you think.
But you WILL look back later, regret it and buy a bike again (typically after the divorce).
Once she realizes you're at her beckoning call, there is no way back.
This is what about you want in life, not your wife, not your parents, not your.....
Wait untill you become a parent (take your time, at 25 you are WAY to young for that :P ); you'll get even more pressure.
Funk that!!! Next thing you'll be aeting vegan only, donot drink beer or not look at other hot looking chicks.
Can I have that bullit now please?
ymmv :P
That's what my buddy said. I'll regret getting rid of the bike down the road. I want to do things to it like a new seat, grips, etc, but I don't want to put money into something that I think I might sell in the near future. I'm all torn back and forth. I drove 10 hours one way to get the thing because they are hard to find around here. I haven't even had it a year yet so I hate to get rid of a bike that is fairly unique (IMHO) that I waited for 5 years to get. Maybe if I can get this thing paid off soon, then I can do whatever the heck I want. Right? Yeah who am I kidding. That probably won't happen. It would only cost $27 a month to keep it after I pay it off though. 2 toys wouldn't be too much to ask would it if 1 is paid for? It would kill us financially to get into muscle cars right now so I can just scratch that. My list of garage tools is sad too and those aren't cheap either. F&%k it. I'm not giving up steak, beer, or gawking at beautiful women so I'm not giving up the Viffer until I'm damn well ready to! :rolleyes:
F&%k it. I'm not giving up steak, beer, or gawking at beautiful women so I'm not giving up the Viffer until I'm damn well ready to!
Good man! The wife should accept you for who you are and what sparks yer interest(and visa versa) otherwise bad things will eventually happen.
[image: View Post]Dutchy, on Jun 11 2007, 02:31 PM, said:
I can hear a time bomb ticking here,
very much like a person who decided to commit suicide.
Not a matter anymore of "if" but "when".......... http://www.vfrdiscus...tyle_emoticons/default/sad.gif
You sell your bike to keep your wife happy, clever move you think.
But you WILL look back later, regret it and buy a bike again (typically after the divorce).
Once she realizes you're at her beckoning call, there is no way back.
This is what about you want in life, not your wife, not your parents, not your.....
Wait untill you become a parent (take your time, at 25 you are WAY to young for that :P ); you'll get even more pressure.
Funk that!!! Next thing you'll be aeting vegan only, donot drink beer or not look at other hot looking chicks.
Can I have that bullit now please?
ymmv :P
This is good advice. Don't cave in or you will live to regret it!!! If you cave, she will secretly lose respect for you. You will then start to hate her secretly!!
It's like taxes, once they get a foot in the door, it can only get worse! :thumbsup:
I got an idea that I need to bounce off you guys. That bottom of the new light makes the back look really square IMHO. With a license plate there, it's not so bad. So i was thinking of doing a little variation. So what do you think? Should I stick to what I'm doing now and make a second variation after I get a mold of the first? This is pretty much it. I had to strip the bike back down just to make sure it still fit. After I add a thin coat of epoxy, she'll be about ready.
I think it looks super as-is. Will you need some kind of light for the plate (maybe blisters integrated on left and right sides where the plate will mount)?
That's what I was talking about. But without all of the foam gone, just inset approx .5". That way, you can put a plate light, in the top of the inset. Remember to taper it, ever so slightly, so it will make a negative mold.
[image: View Post]Rivcyko, on Jun 24 2007, 06:12 PM, said:
That's what I was talking about. But without all of the foam gone, just inset approx .5". That way, you can put a plate light, in the top of the inset. Remember to taper it, ever so slightly, so it will make a negative mold.
Like so? Here's some pics flush. I kinda like the flush myself.
These pics are inset. Could do it either way, flush or inset. Just put in spacers to make it flush. Keep in mind that the corners are not rounded in these pictures.
What about leds, in the corners and the "Bulk", (green), cut away? If you do or don't, do turn signals, in the stop lights, It may be another option. Picture the green area, cut away, with a Wolf undertail. :drool:
What about leds, in the corners and the "Bulk", (green), cut away? If you do or don't, do turn signals, in the stop lights, It may be another option. Picture the green area, cut away, with a Wolf undertail. :drool:
I was thinking of doing a tail light integrator along with 2 bolt LEDs that attach the license plate that work as signals as well. I had also thought of using ZX-10 signal lenses and integrating them into the tail like you are showing in your sketch. Lenses like these ZX-10 lens. That would look good if it was done right. The shape would have to be just right. I am still looking though. I am even considering auto side marker lights too. That's the nice thing about it, anyone could modify it to their liking.
The exhaust out the tail idea is one that I have had many thoughts about lately too! We're seeing eye to eye! I don't know that I'm going to do that right away, but yes, I think that I might try it in the future! Along with a new undertail... :blink: Maybe next winter. :thumbsup:
I like the way it turned out. It's cool how some people that don't like something about their bike will, instead of saying "well, I'll just live with it," will find some way to make the change they want (even if it means fabbing something from scratch.)
Seb had a good idea. It reminds me of a Busa I once saw with a Gixxer1k tail. The guy was somehow able to attach the 1k's subframe (and rear cowl) onto the Busa and made it work. The same Busa also had a SSSA and a little stubby MotoGP style exhaust. A supersport front fener, too. It looked really good.
So we hassled okiengr while he was making these, awesome I want one, cool let us know when it is done i may want one Etc. Well he has show us the finished product but I have not seen anyone say i want one now. Come on guys this is a work of art that gives your 5gen an updated look and then some. I have contacted okiengr and stated that i do indeed want one, if your interested let him know.
I read your post a few years ago and was curious to see the outcome, but forgot to follow you due to some other things (finishing university, the birth of my daughter...all the small things :-)
The outcome looks really great and I was wondering if you still produce them and if there is a chance to buy one. Unpainted and without the lights, as I am from German and we will need lights with a European certificate.
I would really much appreciate if you could sell me one and if you like I cold ask if some members of the German VFR owners club would like to have one too.
I read your post a few years ago and was curious to see the outcome, but forgot to follow you due to some other things (finishing university, the birth of my daughter...all the small things :-)
The outcome looks really great and I was wondering if you still produce them and if there is a chance to buy one. Unpainted and without the lights, as I am from German and we will need lights with a European certificate.
I would really much appreciate if you could sell me one and if you like I cold ask if some members of the German VFR owners club would like to have one too.
I am looking forward hearing from you!
Best regards
Bastian
Okiengr Last Active: Apr 15 2010 10:31 AM
He hasn't checked in in over a year, you might not get a response.
Try his email address (which he posted earlier in this thread):
I read your post a few years ago and was curious to see the outcome, but forgot to follow you due to some other things (finishing university, the birth of my daughter...all the small things :-)
The outcome looks really great and I was wondering if you still produce them and if there is a chance to buy one. Unpainted and without the lights, as I am from German and we will need lights with a European certificate.
I would really much appreciate if you could sell me one and if you like I cold ask if some members of the German VFR owners club would like to have one too.
I am looking forward hearing from you!
Best regards
Bastian
Wow, it's been a while since I've been back on here! I'm actually surprised my account wasn't deleted. Bastian, I actually have had 1 extra tail light section that I made sitting around that I was keeping for someone on here (snakeman maybe?), but he had a wreck and never told me when he wanted it. So I've forgotten about it for a long time recently and decided I'd hop back on here and see if anyone would want it. Unfortunately, due to some poor life choices on my part, I was forced to sell the bike last summer and sold it as seen in the most recent pictures that I posted. I did not get to keep it long enough to copy the mounting brackets and what not so you'd have to make them yourself because you'll lose main mounting points in the original tail light. I can make more tail lights, they are just a bit of a PITA to make and I never really had much feedback to do so. I even made another undertail exhaust that I was going to have copied and sell as an undertail kit. But that too never came to be and it sits in the garage as well. So if you want the light, PM me and we'll work out the details.
I read your post a few years ago and was curious to see the outcome, but forgot to follow you due to some other things (finishing university, the birth of my daughter...all the small things :-)
The outcome looks really great and I was wondering if you still produce them and if there is a chance to buy one. Unpainted and without the lights, as I am from German and we will need lights with a European certificate.
I would really much appreciate if you could sell me one and if you like I cold ask if some members of the German VFR owners club would like to have one too.
I am looking forward hearing from you!
Best regards
Bastian
Wow, it's been a while since I've been back on here! I'm actually surprised my account wasn't deleted. Bastian, I actually have had 1 extra tail light section that I made sitting around that I was keeping for someone on here (snakeman maybe?), but he had a wreck and never told me when he wanted it. So I've forgotten about it for a long time recently and decided I'd hop back on here and see if anyone would want it. Unfortunately, due to some poor life choices on my part, I was forced to sell the bike last summer and sold it as seen in the most recent pictures that I posted. I did not get to keep it long enough to copy the mounting brackets and what not so you'd have to make them yourself because you'll lose main mounting points in the original tail light. I can make more tail lights, they are just a bit of a PITA to make and I never really had much feedback to do so. I even made another undertail exhaust that I was going to have copied and sell as an undertail kit. But that too never came to be and it sits in the garage as well. So if you want the light, PM me and we'll work out the details.
Glad to see you back on here. I am still interested in the unit and should be able to make a mounting bracket that will work. I had lost your e-mail and over time the idea just got pushed more,and more to the back of the mind.
Maybe you should see if you can get a few more people to comitte and then be able to make it worth your time to make a few more of these.
Ok so I made a couple more housings last week. I tried doing some different things with the layup process and different cloths and I think I've found a method that will save me some time. But they are still a PITA to make! Not as bad as it was the way that I used to do them, but still. There is some bagging materials that have impregnated themselves in the inside of the housings that I can't get completely torn out, but it won't affect the exterior functionality at all. So I've got one for snakeman and have 2 more right now. Who's interested for sure?
You did a fantastic job. If you ever get bored and start itching for something different, here's something else you may want to try.
See this bike? It started out as a 5th gen. ('98-'01) VFR like yours. The guy's got a previous generation ('04-'07) CBR1000RR subframe and cowl on there. As for the rest of the fairings, they came off an RC51.
This is probably the sharpest-looking VFR I've ever seen.
![[image: Posted Image]](http://www.vfr-oc.de/wbb2/galerie/mittlere-bilder/mittel-503.jpg){kind=link}
![[image: Posted Image]](http://www.vfr-oc.de/wbb2/galerie/mittlere-bilder/mittel-504.jpg){kind=link}
![[image: Posted Image]](http://www.vfr-oc.de/wbb2/galerie/mittlere-bilder/mittel-508.jpg){kind=link}
![[image: Posted Image]](http://pic19.picturetrail.com/VOL1071/3562698/11123663/223215309.jpg){kind=link}
![[image: Posted Image]](http://pic19.picturetrail.com/VOL1071/3562698/11123663/223215328.jpg){kind=link}
![[image: Posted Image]](http://pic19.picturetrail.com/VOL1071/3562698/11123663/223215320.jpg){kind=link}
![[image: Posted Image]](http://pic19.picturetrail.com/VOL1071/3562698/11123663/225154024.jpg){kind=link}
![[image: Posted Image]](http://pic19.picturetrail.com/VOL1071/3562698/11123663/225231706.jpg){kind=link}
![[image: Posted Image]](http://pic19.picturetrail.com/VOL1071/3562698/11123663/225231714.jpg){kind=link}
![[image: Posted Image]](http://pic19.picturetrail.com/VOL1071/3562698/11123663/225231711.jpg){kind=link}
![[image: Posted Image]](http://i109.photobucket.com/albums/n57/rivcyko/22523171mock2.jpg){kind=link}
![[image: Posted Image]](http://i109.photobucket.com/albums/n57/rivcyko/22523171mock1.jpg){kind=link}
![[image: Posted Image]](http://pic19.picturetrail.com/VOL1071/3562698/11123663/225299513.jpg){kind=link}
![[image: Posted Image]](http://pic19.picturetrail.com/VOL1071/3562698/11123663/227091668.jpg){kind=link}
![[image: Posted Image]](http://pic19.picturetrail.com/VOL1071/3562698/11123663/227091719.jpg){kind=link}
![[image: Posted Image]](http://i109.photobucket.com/albums/n57/rivcyko/227091719-2.jpg){kind=link}
![[image: Posted Image]](http://pic19.picturetrail.com/VOL1071/3562698/11123663/230132171.jpg){kind=link}
![[image: Posted Image]](http://pic19.picturetrail.com/VOL1071/3562698/11123663/230132182.jpg){kind=link}
![[image: Posted Image]](http://pic19.picturetrail.com/VOL1071/3562698/11123663/230132194.jpg){kind=link}
![[image: Posted Image]](http://www.deniskitchen.com/docs/bios/bios.shmoo.bw.jpg){kind=link}
![[image: Posted Image]](http://pic19.picturetrail.com/VOL1071/3562698/11123663/239491866.jpg){kind=link}
![[image: Posted Image]](http://pic19.picturetrail.com/VOL1071/3562698/11123663/239491876.jpg){kind=link}
![[image: Posted Image]](http://pic19.picturetrail.com/VOL1071/3562698/11123663/239491869.jpg){kind=link}
![[image: Posted Image]](http://pic19.picturetrail.com/VOL1071/3562698/11123663/261670260.jpg){kind=link}
![[image: Posted Image]](http://pic19.picturetrail.com/VOL1071/3562698/11123663/261671982.jpg){kind=link}
![[image: Posted Image]](http://pic19.picturetrail.com/VOL1071/3562698/11123663/261672835.jpg){kind=link}
![[image: Posted Image]](http://pic19.picturetrail.com/VOL1071/3562698/11123663/261669885.jpg){kind=link}
![[image: Posted Image]](http://pic19.picturetrail.com/VOL1071/3562698/11123663/262030426.jpg){kind=link}
![[image: Posted Image]](http://pic19.picturetrail.com/VOL1071/3562698/11123663/262030439.jpg){kind=link}
![[image: Posted Image]](http://pic19.picturetrail.com/VOL1071/3562698/11123663/262032280.jpg){kind=link}
![[image: Posted Image]](http://pic19.picturetrail.com/VOL1071/3562698/11123663/262031002.jpg){kind=link}
![[image: Posted Image]](http://pic19.picturetrail.com/VOL1071/3562698/11123663/262030434.jpg){kind=link}
![[image: Posted Image]](http://pic19.picturetrail.com/VOL1071/3562698/11123663/262031009.jpg){kind=link}
![[image: Posted Image]](http://pic19.picturetrail.com/VOL1071/3562698/11123663/262031015.jpg){kind=link}
![[image: Posted Image]](http://i109.photobucket.com/albums/n57/rivcyko/262030426.jpg){kind=link}
![[image: Posted Image]](http://pic19.picturetrail.com/VOL1071/3562698/11123663/262142876.jpg){kind=link}
![[image: Posted Image]](http://pic19.picturetrail.com/VOL1071/3562698/11123663/262174892.jpg){kind=link}
![[image: Posted Image]](http://pic19.picturetrail.com/VOL1071/3562698/11123663/262171189.jpg){kind=link}