Spending Way Too Much Time In R/r Hell...

OK, so I have owned my 96 VFR for almost six years now, and aside from the R/R problems I love this bike. BUT, now I am on my 4th R/R (that is only about a month old) and I am starting to see the same failure symptoms crop up right before I replaced the last one. I worry that I may be purchasing my 5th R/R soon. * BTW, the last failure stranded me on the upper deck of the bay bridge during the morning commute, which was not fun...

So now I face this dilemma: aside from the electrical problems, this bike is sweet. I absolutely love everything about it, and it only has 35k+ miles on it... I have put so much money and TLC into this bike, but I cannot deal with these electrical gremlins for much longer because this is my daily ride. I need something more reliable. I hate to let her go, and truthfully if I had a big garage I would keep her alongside a few other bikes and continue to fix up.

Anyone have any suggestions about how I can fix these problems for good without spending every last dime before giving her up forever? I have been through this a few times already: breaks down, I get it fixed, go for a ride (think to myself: what was i thinking trying to selling this bike?), then repeat the whole process, starting with the break down.

Any comments or advice would be greatly appreciated.

It's a little hard to venture an opinion without having all the facts to hand. When you replaced the R/R, what else did you check? Have you replaced anything else in the charging system? Is the wiring still standard? Did you replace the R/R with another one the same, or a heavier duty model?

It's not really that hard, as the charging system is fairly uncomplicated. If it were me (and assuming you haven't already done this), what I would do is this:
1. Thoroughly test the health of the battery and stator, and replace either of them if they don't check out as good. Replace the stator with OEM Honda, maybe from a later model if this is possible, and the R/R with one from a 2001 or later model.
2. Remove ALL the wiring from the stator through to the R/R, and replace it with heavier gauge wiring with NO plugs or connections, as short as possible. Take the wiring from the R/R straight to the battery (including the negative/ground), via a 30A fuse, and not via the starter relay.
3. Make sure the connectorS to ground are good.
4. Relocate the R/R to somewhere cooler.

You might want to consider trashing the Honda R/R for one from another bike. I used one from a late model GSXR. You can get rectifiers all day long off ebay for next to nothing. I think I paid $20 for mine and it's got a much more substantial heat sink than stock.

[image: power%20012.jpg]

Wingspan, Feb 15 2007, 08:40 PMYou might want to consider trashing the Honda R/R for one from another bike. I used one from a late model GSXR. You can get rectifiers all day long off ebay for next to nothing. I think I paid $20 for mine and it's got a much more substantial heat sink than stock.

[image: power%20012.jpg]

Are you aware of for other bikes that have the same bolt pattern as the stock piece?

Wingspan, Feb 15 2007, 10:40 PMYou might want to consider trashing the Honda R/R for one from another bike. I used one from a late model GSXR. You can get rectifiers all day long off ebay for next to nothing. I think I paid $20 for mine and it's got a much more substantial heat sink than stock.

[image: power%20012.jpg]

doh, i never thought of that....all the R/R is doing is putting out a 12V signal and most bikes (one would think) should have about the same size current draw/voltage needs...could call man!

oops quick edit: do most bikes generators put out the same signal to their R/R?

if it isn't a perfect fit, simply get a small aluminum plate (1/4" or less), use a sawzall or hack saw to cut to size, drill your hole patterns and your adapter is complete!

newt1313, Feb 15 2007, 09:27 PMOK, so I have owned my 96 VFR for almost six years now, and aside from the R/R problems I love this bike.

Anyone have any suggestions about how I can fix these problems for good ...?

I feel your pain brotha.

I bought my mint '96 with 3600 miles on it and the R/R was already on its deathbed. Many have had success with the updated Honda replacement, but I was not going to pay $$$ to fix their mistake. So I adapted a regulator off an '02 RC-51 and haven't looked back.

It wasn't a bolt-in swap. Cutting/drilling/wire splicing/soldering are involved. The RC-51 R/R has an added voltage sensing circut that must be retrofit. So far with 14,000 on the conversion I've had zero problems.

Time permitting someday, I'd like to put together a how-to for the VFRD tech section. Untill then, check my gallery for some pictures. I'll try to post some details later.

Note it is important to insure the integrity of the entire electrical system, and not just lump blame on the R/R:

1) Get a decent multimeter. Only way to know exactly what's going on in the system.
2) Inspect the grounds and connectors. Make sure they are tight and free of corrosion. Use a preservative on them like Ox-Gard or BoeShield or silicone grease or Vaseline or...
3) Use a quality AGM battery, like from Westco or Yuasa.
4) Get a good low-amp battery charger or smart-charger. Keep the battery maintained during the winter/non-riding months.
-and-
5) Always use a heat-transfer compound between the back of the R/R and the subframe!

newt1313, Feb 16 2007, 03:27 AMAnyone have any suggestions about how I can fix these problems for good without spending every last dime before giving her up forever?

I gather you allready have the upgraded RR installed (the one with the metal backplate en fins), and checked the stator and wiring? Although the upgraded RR is better than the one that originally came with the bike (3rd & 4th gens), I don't think it will last that much longer if you mount it at the stock location. You live in cali and use your bike for commuting, so the RR will probably get very hot when outside temp is over 80F and you're in heavy traffic. I had the same problem and after first replacing the stock RR with the upgraded item, adding special heat transfer paste and an electric fan, I would still see the RR get close to 180F.
[image: 00006we0.th.jpg]
also noticed that the subframe and bracket to which the RR is mounted got to 135F so the RR being in the confined space behind the rear fairing (not much airflow there), can't dissipate much heat to the subframe. ( I used a digital thermometer with remote sensors attached to the RR & (sub)frame).

I found the only option is to relocate the RR to a much cooler location where it can dissipate much more heat. Below is a picture story of what I did last year. I relocated the RR to the undertray, sitting on a large cooler taken from an old stereo amplifier. Now even when the outside temp is close to 100F and in heavy traffic the RR runs at about 110F. When outside temps are moderate it runs at 96F, significantly cooler than before.
Btw, the RR that I use is not the RRfor the VFR but te cheaper version for the 250cc Honda scooter.

Upgraded Honda RR with the cooler.
[image: srenkoelerdw4.th.jpg] [image: gatinspatbordug3.th.jpg] [image: gleufjeid0.th.jpg]

Some sealant to keep the spray out. Cooler riveted to the undertray.
[image: klmetkitit4.jpg] [image: klgenageldiz3.jpg]

Splicing the harness.
[image: splice1cp0.jpg]

Make sure you locate the RR in such a way you can still fold the grab handles under the seat (possibly only applies to 3rd gen).
[image: ruimtevoorpassagiergreepvs7.th.jpg] [image: gereedgw5.th.jpg] [image: onderaanzichttc5.th.jpg]
Pic on the right is a shot from below the undertray.

You can also do it the other way round and locate the RR directly above the rear wheel riveted/bolted directly to the undertray. I choose this setup because I didn't want the wiring exposed to all the dirt and such, that comes of the rear wheel.

HTH.

Misspent Youth, Feb 16 2007, 12:21 AMAre you aware of for other bikes that have the same bolt pattern as the stock piece?

The R/R I used doesn't have the same mount pattern as stock. However, there was already one existing hole in the subframe that worked, so I only had to drill one hole.

Stock: [image: power%20007.jpg]

Existing holes, new hole drilled, one mounting stud removed:

[image: power%20008.jpg]

I've put about 5000 miles on the bike since I did the swap. No problems whatsoever.

FWIW, I did this to my bike as a preventitive measure. My stock part had not yet failed (14,000 miles on bike at that point). I don't know why anyone would want it, but I'll probably put it up on ebay. I have no plans to reuse it.

Wingspan, Feb 16 2007, 09:30 AM

Misspent Youth, Feb 16 2007, 12:21 AMAre you aware of for other bikes that have the same bolt pattern as the stock piece?

The R/R I used doesn't have the same mount pattern as stock. However, there was already one existing hole in the subframe that worked, so I only had to drill one hole.

Stock: [image: power%20007.jpg]

Existing holes, new hole drilled, one mounting stud removed:

[image: power%20008.jpg]

I've put about 5000 miles on the bike since I did the swap. No problems whatsoever.

FWIW, I did this to my bike as a preventitive measure. My stock part had not yet failed (14,000 miles on bike at that point). I don't know why anyone would want it, but I'll probably put it up on ebay. I have no plans to reuse it.

can you name mfg and part number for yours? or maybe just bike model and year it came from is easier.

turtlecreek, Feb 16 2007, 11:16 AMcan you name mfg and part number for yours? or maybe just bike model and year it came from is easier.

It was from a late model gsxr1000, that's as far as I know.

Thanks to all for the quick feedback and suggestions. I will put some more thought into this and see if I can duplicate some of the solutions listed. After thinking about it more, I really would rather fix the problem than sell this bike.

Pictures from my gallery incl some new ones:

[image: gallery_4773_2265_3466.jpg] RC51 R/R vs. stock

[image: gallery_4773_2265_11437.jpg] .125" aluminum plate heat spreader

[image: gallery_4773_2265_14408.jpg] subframe mods, connectors

[image: gallery_4773_2265_68925.jpg]

[image: gallery_4773_2265_31988.jpg]

[image: gallery_4773_2265_31662.jpg]

[image: gallery_4773_2265_31380.jpg]

[image: gallery_4773_2265_65823.jpg]
fused wire = remote voltage sensor circuit

[image: gallery_4773_2265_26660.jpg] DC 340

V4 Rosso, Feb 16 2007, 06:48 AM[image: onderaanzichttc5.jpg]

That is some awesome engineering there! fing02.gif

It almost makes me wish I had an older gen VFR so I could do the same thing. tongue.gif