Lowsides happened. Even to me. Funny part that always on to the left side.
Here are the damages (covered with duct tape, but you get the idea): [image: med_gallery_7692_2036_25703.jpg]
Custom work (for further discussion):
So, I am looking into buying a new left side fairing. And I seek all of you guys (and girls) wisdom!
My options are:
1) Buy a Honda fairing - expensive, very expensive 2) Buy used Honda fairing - anyone has one to sell?? 3) Repair the old fairing - Not sure what Sebspeed have to say to it. He is the master in this matter. But probably not doable, even though kind of easy option for me. 4) Buy another aftermarket faifing - Airtech
So, if only option 4 is possible, then: Firstly, What do you think about the Airtech fairing? Experiences?
and secondly, Is it ok if I buy only the mid left and mid right panels? I need only left but I think I should balance out the weight.
Or, maybe it would be better to buy the whole 'race' fairing and the front light fairing and just cut out the opening for the light (but then, the front lights are 5th gen - not sure how that would fit) I would not worry about the price - I can sell my old fairing on the ebay and make money smile.gif
What do you think about the naca ducts being molded in?
Buy used. You're having it re-painted. It is the only logical option. Repair is not gonna last, (too many weak points and areas of shrinkage). Airtech sucks, that's why there so cheap, and used for race plastics. (WAY TOO MUCH involved, trying to get to a stock fit and finish). .02 Haven't seen it first hand, "mid left and mid right panels?" If you're spaeking of leaving the lower and replacing the rest,...seems viable. Looks like the lower can be fixed.
So, in trade,....You buy'n Seb's trip to the gap? LOL.
Rivcyko, Feb 21 2007, 09:58 PMBuy used. You're having it re-painted. It is the only logical option. Repair is not gonna last, (too many weak points and areas of shrinkage). Airtech sucks, that's why there so cheap, and used for race plastics. (WAY TOO MUCH involved, trying to get to a stock fit and finish). .02 Haven't seen it first hand, "mid left and mid right panels?" If you're spaeking of leaving the lower and replacing the rest,...seems viable. Looks like the lower can be fixed.
So, in trade,....You buy'n Seb's trip to the gap? LOL.
Only problem buying used is, they're very rare finds. The panel she has can be brought back to life, at the expense of many, many hours of sanding. Friends who work for beer(and know what they are doing!) are currently in short supply, leaving a time constraint.
Honda's prices are ridiculous!
As far as Airtech, they're the only "name brand" 'glass panel shop in North America that covers these bikes(important when considering shipping). I haven't ever held a product of theirs in my hands, but from what I've gathered from some people here, and on other boards, it's going to be better than some that I have.
Only time will tell, in the mean time, at least, we settled on a color tonight! fing02.gif And I'm not telling.... tongue.gif
Rivcyko, Feb 21 2007, 09:58 PMBuy used. You're having it re-painted. It is the only logical option. Repair is not gonna last, (too many weak points and areas of shrinkage). Airtech sucks, that's why there so cheap, and used for race plastics. (WAY TOO MUCH involved, trying to get to a stock fit and finish). .02 Haven't seen it first hand, "mid left and mid right panels?" If you're spaeking of leaving the lower and replacing the rest,...seems viable. Looks like the lower can be fixed.
So, in trade,....You buy'n Seb's trip to the gap? LOL.
Only problem buying used is, they're very rare finds. The panel she has can be brought back to life, at the expense of many, many hours of sanding. Friends who work for beer(and know what they are doing!) are currently in short supply, leaving a time constraint.
Honda's prices are ridiculous!
As far as Airtech, they're the only "name brand" 'glass panel shop in North America that covers these bikes(important when considering shipping). I haven't ever held a product of theirs in my hands, but from what I've gathered from some people here, and on other boards, it's going to be better than some that I have.
Only time will tell, in the mean time, at least, we settled on a color tonight! fing02.gif And I'm not telling.... tongue.gif
Granted on the hard to find. If you can keep that puppy rigid enough, with all the repair, cool, My point wasn't that it couldn't be done, but would the finished product be worth all the work, after a couple years? (course, if there's nothing to be found, used, the arrow points to,...YES). For the heck of it, I'll check the salvage yards, here, to see,....... fing02.gif
Hate to see hard work even take a chance on falling apart, is all. Not try'n to be critical.
Rivcyko, Feb 21 2007, 11:50 PMGranted on the hard to find. If you can keep that puppy rigid enough, with all the repair, cool, My point wasn't that it couldn't be done, but would the finished product be worth all the work, after a couple years? (course, if there's nothing to be found, used, the arrow points to,...YES). For the heck of it, I'll check the salvage yards, here, to see,....... fing02.gif
Hate to see hard work even take a chance on falling apart, is all. Not try'n to be critical.
No worries! smile.gif
That's probably why she'll end up with the fiberglass panels, it's the easier option, if they don't meet our collective standards for strength, I can add a few layers of glass mat in choice areas to stiffen them up; plus, if anything happens, they are cheap to replace. $168 vs., what was it, $450 for the oem?
quick note about the Airteck fairings... you buy the one side, yer gonna need the other also. They don't cut the fins into the side duct (above the NACA) so it'll look silly w/ fins on one side, and not the other. Best bet I would think is to buy a repairible or decent piece off ePay.
Poop. No dice. All that's around here is gixers, CBRs, and R-1s. (I keep tabs, from time to time, for all viffer parts, at the local salvage. Really try'n to get my hands on catless headders). LOL. fing02.gif
ss_burns, Feb 22 2007, 11:49 AMquick note about the Airteck fairings... you buy the one side, yer gonna need the other also. They don't cut the fins into the side duct (above the NACA) so it'll look silly w/ fins on one side, and not the other. Best bet I would think is to buy a repairible or decent piece off ePay.
I know Martina's been scouring ebay for a long time now, waiting for one to come up, with no luck. If she goes the Airtech route, we will do both sides to match, and I will be retrofitting both the NACA ducts and the grilles.
Selling the perfect right side on ebay should cover the cost of both Airtech sides and then some...
If you go the Airtech route just beware that the stuff is very thin and flimsy- fine for disposable race glass, but not the best for racking up the street miles. I added three layers of glass to the seat and two to the fairing I'm currently using on the street. (non VFR) beer.gif
I finally got some pics of the damage loaded up.(be patient, there are a lot!) As you can see, there is some previous repair work, which will not make further repairs any easier. It looks almost like a very large cheese grater was taken down the side of the bike!
The upper fairing is definately getting repaired, as it's a one-off. That pushes me more in the direction of replacing the left panel, if only to alleviate the amount of work involved, even if it means going with fiberglass. Repair work over repaired repairs( comp13.gif ) spells disaster in my book.
Only thing I don't like about the Airtech idea, is that they will be making these parts to order, so I'd be worried about a full cure on the resin before applying paint... unsure.gif
uummm i do not want to insult you or any thing like that... but it really is not that bad.. at the shop i worked in ,stuff like that gets fixed in the morning before lunch...
normally the sides are broken into 3 peices or are missing HUGE chunks.. M's is missing...what ?? a tiny little bit..
now. i must admit i do not know what tools you are using.. i use 1) a huge aircompresser...and hot air plastic welder 2)soildering iron 3) mini torch 4) flexable body filler.. 5)belt sander 6)orbital sander 7) LOTS of sandpaper 8) LOTS of plastic from busted cbr body parts..
i normaly use the mini torch to melt any big parts back to gether at 3 or more spots.. ..if the plastic part has been fixxed bt a goof with fiberglass.. i melt some cbr plastic over the redamaged area and build up a layer.
once every thing has been tacked together .i do the normal method of melting the v and fill it in , the back gets a melted with the mini touch and lots of plastic added to all cracks and mounting points.. then sand the crap out of the front... then we add the body filler and sand the crap out of it again.. then we get chinese food!! fing02.gif then we wait a freeking week for the boss the paint the thing... pissed.gif while eating chinese food! tongue.gif
SEBSPEED, Feb 25 2007, 06:02 PMOnly thing I don't like about the Airtech idea, is that they will be making these parts to order, so I'd be worried about a full cure on the resin before applying paint... unsure.gif
When you get them, Heat them up, under a heat lamp, for like 8 hrs., then put them in a cool place. They'll have some ship time to cure, and I would think there using mat, which is'nt gonna have as much shrinkage as cloth and epoxy.
gll429, Feb 25 2007, 08:37 PMuummm i do not want to insult you or any thing like that... but it really is not that bad.. at the shop i worked in ,stuff like that gets fixed in the morning before lunch...
normally the sides are broken into 3 peices or are missing HUGE chunks.. M's is missing...what ?? a tiny little bit..
now. i must admit i do not know what tools you are using.. i use 1) a huge aircompresser...and hot air plastic welder 2)soildering iron 3) mini torch 4) flexable body filler.. 5)belt sander 6)orbital sander 7) LOTS of sandpaper 8) LOTS of plastic from busted cbr body parts..
i normaly use the mini torch to melt any big parts back to gether at 3 or more spots.. ..if the plastic part has been fixxed bt a goof with fiberglass.. i melt some cbr plastic over the redamaged area and build up a layer.
once every thing has been tacked together .i do the normal method of melting the v and fill it in , the back gets a melted with the mini touch and lots of plastic added to all cracks and mounting points.. then sand the crap out of the front... then we add the body filler and sand the crap out of it again.. then we get chinese food!! fing02.gif then we wait a freeking week for the boss the paint the thing... pissed.gif while eating chinese food! tongue.gif
Granted. BUT, Seb. would have to get through all that crap, to get to a usable base. With all the projects he's got going, not having to go through all of that, sounds reasonable. (Then there's all that filler, that is gonna shrink-up, even worse).
gll429, Feb 25 2007, 09:28 PM99% of the filler gets sanded off. never had a problem with any shrinkage.
Usually, but, some of this sh!t would take a 1/4" or more of filler to bring it back up level, to be sanded smooth! Building up with used/melted plastic I would consider, but all the tiny air holes and pockets created during said process will only bring about hairline cracks down the road. I pride myself on quality work(definately NOT saying yours isn't!!), but, the world is watching on this one, know what I mean?
i personally have never had and air pockets develop.and yes i use lots of plastic , i use the soildering iron so spead the plastic and build it up after melting it with the torch. the filler is spread about 1/20th then sanded down to show any low spots. fing02.gif this is what the shop has been doing for 18 years and has not had any complaints..... other than being real slow with the paint...
SEBSPEED, Feb 25 2007, 06:02 PMOnly thing I don't like about the Airtech idea, is that they will be making these parts to order, so I'd be worried about a full cure on the resin before applying paint... unsure.gif
When you get them, Heat them up, under a heat lamp, for like 8 hrs., then put them in a cool place. They'll have some ship time to cure, and I would think there using mat, which is'nt gonna have as much shrinkage as cloth and epoxy.
gll429, Feb 25 2007, 10:47 PMi personally have never had and air pockets develop.and yes i use lots of plastic , i use the soildering iron so spead the plastic and build it up after melting it with the torch. the filler is spread about 1/20th then sanded down to show any low spots. fing02.gif this is what the shop has been doing for 18 years and has not had any complaints..... other than being real slow with the paint...
I do have a some good 3M plastic epoxy made for just this purpose, again, the time involved getting to prep and prime, vs. prep, prime, paint(bing, bang, boom) is a bit of an issue here.
The time I spend messing around with this fairing could very well be used in working on one of the other 6 bikes in my garage right now...
hhhhmmm. spend close to 400 bucks and add an 1 to add more fiber glass to a crap product... or spent 3 hours fixxinf it my self for less than 10??? i take the 2nd option... fing02.gif
gll429, Feb 26 2007, 10:32 PMhhhhmmm. spend close to 400 bucks and add an 1 to add more fiber glass to a crap product... or spent 3 hours fixxinf it my self for less than 10??? i take the 2nd option... fing02.gif
gll429, Feb 26 2007, 10:32 PMhhhhmmm. spend close to 400 bucks and add an 1 to add more fiber glass to a crap product... or spent 3 hours fixxinf it my self for less than 10??? i take the 2nd option... fing02.gif
Ahhhhh. A volunteer. rolleyes.gif 491.gif
Yeah, and currently with one arm behind his back... goofy.gif
no ,realy, we have fixed side panels worse than martins in about 3 hours.. ready to be painted. and the customers come back for other stuff because we do a good job. i have never seen any cracking ,even 2 years after a part was fixxed.
gll429, Feb 26 2007, 11:44 PMno ,realy, we have fixed side panels worse than martins in about 3 hours.. ready to be painted. and the customers come back for other stuff because we do a good job. i have never seen any cracking ,even 2 years after a part was fixxed.
Not saying it can't be done. And I sure as he!! am not saying you couldn't or wouldn't do top quality work. So, in the interest of saving Martina some $$$, and Seb. the time, (from that, or having to graph the grill work 'n stuff). How much would you charge? What kind of turn around time, are you look'n at? Shipping USPS wouldn't be too bad.
Seb., did you already order the Airtechs?............................................
I swore off bodywork and painting a long time ago. Bondoing and sanding the dented gas tank, and sanding the side battery covers and fenders was extremely time consuming. laugh.gif And that bike didn't even have a fairing. Admittedly, I didn't have any power tools. And only rattle cans. rolleyes.gif
VFR4Lee, Feb 27 2007, 12:35 AM3 hours per piece? That's all? unsure.gif
I swore off bodywork and painting a long time ago. Bondoing and sanding the dented gas tank, and sanding the side battery covers and fenders was extremely time consuming. laugh.gif And that bike didn't even have a fairing. Admittedly, I didn't have any power tools. And only rattle cans. rolleyes.gif
Of course, he crosses the country in 32 hours as well! goofy.gif
Lee, it's not my dream job, as much as it is a dream to see bikes made better, but more importantly, I have a viffer that needs funds for fixing... warranty.gif
Hi M, I saw this tread a couple of days ago and today remember this stuff. I have not used it or have I a need to yet, but, it looked like it may be a promising product. Your damage does look very extensive. I do not know if you could make the stuff work or not. Anyway just throwing it out there. http://www.repairplastic.com/rp/main/index.php Hope all is well. Take care.
What an interesting discussion ! I wish I knew what is the best solution. The guy from Airtech promised me to push my order through faster if I need it. But if gll429 offers his services, I am all ears. Well, depends how much he would charge for them. In any case, I do need to make a quick decision.
So, maybe - can I call you Seb? Let's talk. And Greg, are you serious about the plastic? If the plastic is delivered to you by Friday, when do you think it can be repaired and for how much?
sorry it took so long to reply, my old boss has closed the shop to go to bike week...sorry.. if i had know you needed a rush job i would have done it for a feild trip in NY.
tailgunn, Feb 26 2007, 10:21 PMThat seems like a lot of friggin work, gll429. Easier to buy the Airtech and add a few layers of fiberglass I think.
So you have a 5th gen headlight on your 4th? How? Are you using the 4th or 5th gen bracket? Details please.
I'll take pics of the mod when I break the bike down, and IF Martina approves, I'll post them up in a later thread.
That would be great; thanks.
Hey gll429, if I could do it for $10 bucks that would be great but I don't have the long list of tools/materials that you do, nor the experience that you do. So it would take me considerably longer, cost a lot more and probably not look nearly as good as your work. I could fork out the money for tools/materials, practice on the busted CBR parts I have laying around, to then fix the factory crap on my viffer once. To me that's not worth it, especially since the bike is no longer and never will be pristine again. But, if I decide I want the factory stuff fixed, I'll give you a holler since it sounds like you know what you are doing.
gll429, Feb 25 2007, 08:37 PMi use 1) a huge aircompresser...and hot air plastic welder 2)soildering iron 3) mini torch 4) flexable body filler.. 5)belt sander 6)orbital sander 7) LOTS of sandpaper 8) LOTS of plastic from busted cbr body parts..
the trick is as you said.. the right POWER tools.. i basiclly just melt the plastic and add lots more melted plastic.. let it cool then, sand the crap out it.
to sand lots of stuff in 2 hours you need lots of POWER!
gll429;
Here is the opportunity for you to be immortalized in the VFRD tech section and possibly sportbike-oriented internet in general. fing02.gif fing02.gif
but we must have more... DETAILS!! PICTURES!!!
Stop teasing us with your knowledge, Master ...show us the Way!!!
hmm, I actually have most of the hardware in that list. What are you using for a belt sander?
mini torch?
special soldering iron? how much "melted" does the donor CBR plastic have to get to add it? -a little mushy or dripping-on-fire?
I don't post much but I did such job this winter, so...
Use "Plastex". It's magical - easy to work with, easy to sand and paint over it. The best part - it's stronger than the original plastic and as just as flexible. I had a low side in October and had the same dilema. My parts were just as destroyed but I had much more of them to fix. I took me about a month (only 1-2 hours/day during the week and I really had many parts for fixing) but I made it PERFECT. I would never do it for money but since it's for my own bike, I took my sweet time.
celt, Mar 3 2007, 11:04 AMI don't post much but I did such job this winter, so...
Use "Plastex". It's magical - easy to work with, easy to sand and paint over it. The best part - it's stronger than the original plastic and as just as flexible. I had a low side in October and had the same dilema. My parts were just as destroyed but I had much more of them to fix. I took me about a month (only 1-2 hours/day during the week and I really had many parts for fixing) but I made it PERFECT. I would never do it for money but since it's for my own bike, I took my sweet time.
celt
I went out and picked up some 3M 5895 plastic epoxy, I hear it's great stuff. I'll be using it on the upper fairing, so I'll post up some feedback later on. fing02.gif
I went out and picked up some 3M 5895 plastic epoxy, I hear it's great stuff. I'll be using it on the upper fairing, so I'll post up some feedback later on. fing02.gif
3M has some nice video on flexible panel repair here: Automix 5887 5887 is mainly for filling surface defects though. I'm thinking with the technique used at the above posted Adventure Riders Forum link, and some 3M/Duramix 4240 that might patch some pretty big holes...
Does anyone use flex agent in their top coat when spraying bike plastic? I doubt ABS or nylon is a flexible as an olefin bumper cover. A lot of paint & body guys hate the flex agent for some reason and don't use it at all, from what I understand.
I went out and picked up some 3M 5895 plastic epoxy, I hear it's great stuff. I'll be using it on the upper fairing, so I'll post up some feedback later on. fing02.gif
3M has some nice video on flexible panel repair here: Automix 5887 5887 is mainly for filling surface defects though. I'm thinking with the technique used at the above posted Adventure Riders Forum link, and some 3M/Duramix 4240 that might patch some pretty big holes...
I was just talking with a buddy of mine, and he's got some newer bumper repair glue that he's real happy with, and he'll order whatever I need through the shop for me, so I get their discount. He's also letting me rent their full spray booth for $150 a day. This is a major bonus, I'll be able to bake the paint overnight for a great cure the next day! If the clearcoat goes as well as my last job, I can go straight to 2500 wet paper and buff! fing02.gif
I was just talking with a buddy of mine, and he's got some newer bumper repair glue that he's real happy with, and he'll order whatever I need through the shop for me, so I get their discount...]
Seb'; What system does your buddy use for prime/base/clear? Does he bother with the flex agent?
I was just talking with a buddy of mine, and he's got some newer bumper repair glue that he's real happy with, and he'll order whatever I need through the shop for me, so I get their discount...]
Seb'; What system does your buddy use for prime/base/clear? Does he bother with the flex agent?
They use mostly PPG and House of Kolor, not sure which PPG system they use, but I use their DBU system, that's what we used at the last shop I was moonlighting in. No flex agent, not for bike parts anyway. Biggest issue is in the prep, and cleanliness, that's what's going to make or break a paint job.
I watched the first vid you posted, it's a good quickie tutorial, I just wanted to add that the adhesion promoter is overrated. Dish soap and water will do the same thing, as it's main purpose is to remove releasing agents and other contaminates brought about by the exposure of virgin plastic, the raw stuff exposed by sanding.
I just wanted to add that the adhesion promoter is overrated. Dish soap and water will do the same thing, as it's main purpose is to remove releasing agents and other contaminates brought about by the exposure of virgin plastic, the raw stuff exposed by sanding.
yea, I gathered the AP was directed mainly toward TPO/Olefin material repairs on bumper covers and not as relevent to ABS or Nylon type plastic. OTH; if you are going through all the $$$ and effort, what's an extra $18 and 5 minutes. They use so little of the stuff, seems like one can goes a long way. -like one tube of YamaBond!
End of thread · 50 posts recoveredWayback Machine snapshot 26 Mar 2007
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