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Cam Problems On 5th Gen......help Me Fellas

17 posts Started 6 Mar 2007 Last recovered post 8 Mar 2007 Wayback Machine snapshot 9 Mar 2007

#1
Gents,

Upon opening the top end on my98 vfr for its second valve adjustment, I discovered that the left intake cam lobes for #1 and #2 cylinders looked as if the hardened face was chipping at the apex of the lobe. Oil has been changed regularly and everything else in the top end looks fine. Has anybody else experienced this and if so, could u share some intel? Two new intake cams are on the way, I hope thats as far as I have to go with only 18,000 miles total on the bike. Thanks.

#2
Are you sure those are chips and not caramelized oil streaks. They can look like a groove worn in the lobes sometimes. If they are they will clean off w/ some solvent. Are there metal bits in your oil or filter?
#3
I have NEVER heard of a VFR 800 Cam failure, ever! blink.gif
Not even with 100,000 miles and you only have 18k, very strange. Let us know if it really is what is going on!

Good luck!

PS I would never check the valves on a 5th gen till way after 50-60k anyway!
Did someone dump sand in your crank case???
#4
pictures would be great! I am really interested in this too!
#5
I hope you don;t need the cams, but if you did, shouldn't you get the cam followers as well? If one surface is worn so is the other. Bu tI am sure you knwo this already.
To bad if it failed, it is not normal for a VFR to do that. We have an 87 in the family with over 60k on it. I am sure that it has never been opened up for anything more than a valve adjustment.

Make sure you figure out why it failed before you put it all back together. I would love to hear what you found out.

Good luck with it.
#6
mechdziner714, Mar 6 2007, 11:12 PMAre you sure those are chips and not caramelized oil streaks. They can look like a groove worn in the lobes sometimes. If they are they will clean off w/ some solvent. Are there metal bits in your oil or filter?


"Caramelized", that's a cool new term to use on semi-coked carbon and oil.
Maybe you can also use "molassified" rolleyes.gif
Just don't try to taste it with your tongue when the gear cam drive is turning! goofy.gif

Beck
95 VFR
#7
Beck, Mar 6 2007, 08:29 PM
mechdziner714, Mar 6 2007, 11:12 PMAre you sure those are chips and not caramelized oil streaks. They can look like a groove worn in the lobes sometimes. If they are they will clean off w/ some solvent. Are there metal bits in your oil or filter?


"Caramelized", that's a cool new term to use on semi-coked carbon and oil.
Maybe you can also use "molassified" rolleyes.gif


Haha.

Like BR said, not a very likely thing to happen in any bike, especially at 18k. Besides that why are you doing a 2nd valve check at 18K? Did you reapply moly to the lobes the last time you did valve check?
#8
Beck, Mar 6 2007, 08:29 PM
mechdziner714, Mar 6 2007, 11:12 PMAre you sure those are chips and not caramelized oil streaks. They can look like a groove worn in the lobes sometimes. If they are they will clean off w/ some solvent. Are there metal bits in your oil or filter?


"Caramelized", that's a cool new term to use on semi-coked carbon and oil.
Maybe you can also use "molassified" rolleyes.gif
Just don't try to taste it with your tongue when the gear cam drive is turning! goofy.gif

Beck
95 VFR



That would be my guess too. When I took my upper and lower intake manifolds off my car, I used this stuff called Berrymans Chem-tool that comes in a red/white/blue can for about $5. I scrubbed that bad boy clean and it does take forever but after 50k miles it needed it desperately. I'd try that stuff to remove the gunk.......be sure to wear gloves b/c that stuff will eat your skin!
#9
Im glued to this topic, very interested in the outcome. Let us know.
#10
jturgeon19, Mar 6 2007, 05:07 PMGents,

Upon opening the top end on my98 vfr for its second valve adjustment, I discovered that the left intake cam lobes for #1 and #2 cylinders looked as if the hardened face was chipping at the apex of the lobe. Oil has been changed regularly and everything else in the top end looks fine. Has anybody else experienced this and if so, could u share some intel? Two new intake cams are on the way, I hope thats as far as I have to go with only 18,000 miles total on the bike. Thanks.

What do the followers look like?
#11
At 14,000 miles, I checked the valve clearances to find that they were within specs, but since then have developed a small chatter in the top end(nothing serious). To ease my paranoia, and since there is 3 feet of snow on the ground, I opened it back up with the intent of shimming all the buckets to meet exact clearance specs, but upon cam inspection found deterioration of the lobes on #1 and #2 left intakes. I immediately began researching available information from local dealerships and service centers all of which said that they had seen this on occasion. One dealership suggested a blocked oil passage in the cam holders but it seems unlikely to me that the forward and after banks would suffer the same casualties. Every other cam lobe is in fine shape/condition and every possible measurement (i.e) lobe height, journal diameter, are exactly within spec and show no wear. It is definitely not "carmelized" oil deposits. Under a magnifying glass it is very evident that metal has been removed. I have never put more than 2,000 miles on an oil change (Ams-oil synthetic) and the bike is meticulously cared for. Afterall, it is a VFR!
Both dealerships reccommended that I replace the effected cams and the corresponding followers. I'm worried fellas, I don't know if my bike will ever be the same. It hurts to see her this way. Any suggestions? Give me the "If I were you..." scenario. Pictures to follow.
#12
jturgeon19, Mar 7 2007, 10:28 PMAt 14,000 miles, I checked the valve clearances to find that they were within specs, but since then have developed a small chatter in the top end(nothing serious). To ease my paranoia, and since there is 3 feet of snow on the ground, I opened it back up with the intent of shimming all the buckets to meet exact clearance specs, but upon cam inspection found deterioration of the lobes on #1 and #2 left intakes. I immediately began researching available information from local dealerships and service centers all of which said that they had seen this on occasion. One dealership suggested a blocked oil passage in the cam holders but it seems unlikely to me that the forward and after banks would suffer the same casualties. Every other cam lobe is in fine shape/condition and every possible measurement (i.e) lobe height, journal diameter, are exactly within spec and show no wear. It is definitely not "carmelized" oil deposits. Under a magnifying glass it is very evident that metal has been removed. I have never put more than 2,000 miles on an oil change (Ams-oil synthetic) and the bike is meticulously cared for. Afterall, it is a VFR!
Both dealerships reccommended that I replace the effected cams and the corresponding followers. I'm worried fellas, I don't know if my bike will ever be the same. It hurts to see her this way. Any suggestions? Give me the "If I were you..." scenario. Pictures to follow.


Just a note. There have been cases where bikes that have been known to be left to idle longish periods on their sidestand and had their leftmost cams starve for oil because of the low pressures at idle and the oil in the cam tray working it's way down to the right end of the camshafts, leaving the cams on the left high and dry. Mostly know to happen with Inline 4s but I'm sure it applies to any bike with a trasverse engine like our V4s.
Do you think this could be the case?

Beck
95 VFR
#13
I can't see how the left side cam lobes could starve when the bike leans to the left when on the side stand.
#14
Beck, Mar 7 2007, 08:05 PM
jturgeon19, Mar 7 2007, 10:28 PMAt 14,000 miles, I checked the valve clearances to find that they were within specs, but since then have developed a small chatter in the top end(nothing serious). To ease my paranoia, and since there is 3 feet of snow on the ground, I opened it back up with the intent of shimming all the buckets to meet exact clearance specs, but upon cam inspection found deterioration of the lobes on #1 and #2 left intakes. I immediately began researching available information from local dealerships and service centers all of which said that they had seen this on occasion. One dealership suggested a blocked oil passage in the cam holders but it seems unlikely to me that the forward and after banks would suffer the same casualties. Every other cam lobe is in fine shape/condition and every possible measurement (i.e) lobe height, journal diameter, are exactly within spec and show no wear. It is definitely not "carmelized" oil deposits. Under a magnifying glass it is very evident that metal has been removed. I have never put more than 2,000 miles on an oil change (Ams-oil synthetic) and the bike is meticulously cared for. Afterall, it is a VFR!
Both dealerships reccommended that I replace the effected cams and the corresponding followers. I'm worried fellas, I don't know if my bike will ever be the same. It hurts to see her this way. Any suggestions? Give me the "If I were you..." scenario. Pictures to follow.


Just a note. There have been cases where bikes that have been known to be left to idle longish periods on their sidestand and had their leftmost cams starve for oil because of the low pressures at idle and the oil in the cam tray working it's way down to the right end of the camshafts, leaving the cams on the left high and dry. Mostly know to happen with Inline 4s but I'm sure it applies to any bike with a trasverse engine like our V4s.
Do you think this could be the case?

Beck
95 VFR



I have heard of that happening on I-4's. You mean right side cams. I am a honda auto tech and the only cams I have seen go bad are starved for oil and seize.
#15
Beck,

That is certainly an interesting possibility. Sprayed some aerosol brake cleaner through tthe oil passages of the cam holders tonight and everything seemed to be free of obstructions. I am at a loss. I just wish there was an explanation for it. It would be understandable if i neglected it, but a VFR. I wouldn't dream of it. I guess I'll be ordering a couple of cam shafts this week. $600....ouch. Anything for my baby, though. Keep the input coming.....
#16
I am not worried, (mind you it's easy to say when it's not yours). It happens. Piece of metal broke, got caught between the lobs and the cam follower. It sucks, but I can't see that being a problem in the future. Switch to synthetic oil, and carry on.


NOTE: To refere to the lack of oil going on a cam, I did see that, and it did wear out the cam, and it was on a Honda Accord, 85 or 86. I saw the same thing an 86 (or 87) GSXR750: the lobes wore down. (we switched it to synthetic and did another 60 000km before it was sold without any other issues)

Last month, I replaced the engine in an 93 Accord because the came snap in 2 (lack of oil).

Diffrent things happen, and there are many variables that can provoke them. (a deffect in the metal, low oil pressure because of . . . thin oil, plug conduit, very old lubricant).

Replace them, and go in peace!
#17
the ninja 1400 cams have been chipping like ice in a blender..1 customer needed new cams with only 3000 miles..
End of thread · 17 posts recovered Wayback Machine snapshot 9 Mar 2007