So I sold a couple bikes I had this past weekend (2001 CBR929RR and a 2000 KLR650) to cut some expenses and bought a 98 VFR with 14K on it. I wanted something basically in between the two bikes andi REALLY missed my old 90 VFR that I used to have and put 45,000 miles on it.
Still getting used to the 98 and it WAY needs new tires, but I am finding the back end WAY to low for me and the bike seems to not tip very far over on the sidestand. The shock looks like it's stock, and I can't seem to find anything that looks like it was lowered (linkage plates, etc.) but it just doesn't sit right. Does anyone know of another way to "lower" the bike that I might have missed? The forks were slightly lowered, about 10MM and I raised 'em back simply to get the bike to lean over on the sidestand but something doesn't seem right.
Can anyone tell me if their 5th gen leans pretty straight too? I max-ed the preload on the shock and fork and it still sits upright. Something just doesn't sit right and while I am 6'3" and almost every street bike has me flat-footing it, somethings off.
I kept the Fox Racing TCR shock that was on my 929 and was planning on selling it, but low and behold the CBR shock is a common mod here. Can someone break this down and give me the REAL story on the shock? I did a search, and there is a TON of info out there but it's really jumbled up and confusing, at least to me, as to whether or not to use a 929 or 954, how big the spacer needs to be, etc. Also someone was mentioning getting the 929 linkage, does that affect it, would the linkage save me a ton of work?
Will the Fox shock's ride height give me enough adjustment where I wouldn't need the spacer? Has anyone done this mod with this shock?
Help!
Bike runs pretty well, but the 929's powerband is slightly missed. If I can get the ride height correct, maybe that will help me really enjoy the ride.
miweber929, Apr 15 2008, 01:32 PMDoes anyone know of another way to "lower" the bike that I might have missed?
Check the triangle plates again. A common method used to drop the rear end of the VFR is to rotate the triangle plates. If your plates have been rotated, the arrow on them will be pointing the wrong direction (up, I think). The arrow should point to the front of the bike.
As for the 929 shock swap, it's recommended to get the 929 shock and not the 954 because of the location of the reservoir on the shock. The reservoir can interfere with the link brake plumbing.
But, seeing that you have an aftermarket shock, this 929 vs 954 issue shouldn't be a problem for you. I'm guessing your FOX shock has a remote reservoir on it, which means you can put it anywhere you want. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/fing02.gif)
Hi Mike, welcome to VFRD! You picked up a nice VFR in the 98, one of the favorite years ever! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/fing02.gif)
Question, if you say the bike sits low then the sidestand should be holding the bike to upright unless they cut it to if they lowered it. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/unsure.gif) Plus one on the triangle plates as a thing to check for the lowered rear end. BTW is the Fox 929 shock (shox) you have ride height adjustable? That would make it an easy swap. What spring is on it?
I agree, check the triangles. The 5th gen has a low looking rear end, but the suspension was not low enough to result in a bike that's too vertical on it's sidestand. Unless....the PO already repalced the rear shock with something shorter than OEM.....like a .............CBr 929 shock (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif) !
Well, I checked the triangle, and unless the owner swapped dog bones or the entire triangle, they are correct and the arrows point towards the front of the bike.
I may have not described this right, but the bike actaully sits high, i.e. acts like a strong ouff of wind will knock it over. Like the bike was lowered.
The tires are pretty darn shot (worn flat) so I am hoping that a tire change will bring the bike back up to a level that feels right. I also hope it gives it a feel better than it has as far as flickable: right now it feels like a tank.
I guess maybe I was expecting too much; I knew there was a difference between a sport and supersport but last year I rode a Gen 6 VFR and while the motor was most definitely less potent than the 929, it felt "tighter" and more whole. This bike feels soft and spongy. I kind of tyook everyones word thatr the Gen 5 pre-VTEC was the bike to have.
Also the bars and levers are horrible, in 10 minutes my arms ached so bad that I wished that I'd never sold the CBR. And for those who think the seat/bar/pegs relationship on a CBR is bad, my back and legs hurt WAY quicker then they ever did on the 929. I'd much sooner drive across country on the 929 than the VFR, there felt to be way better leg room for my 6'3" frame.
I actually called the guy I sold it to and offered to buy my old bike back. Any ideas on what I can do to make this one more solid and sporty without breaking the bank?
To say I feel like i made a mistake is a huge understatment!
Try a set of bar risers, I bought my 98 with GenMar riser already on it but it's great compared to without them. I'm 6'2" and plenty comfortable with plenty of leg room, arm reach, etc. There are a lot of taller, bigger, and large riders on VFRs and on the board I'ld guess, most of which seem to be very comfortable on the VFR. Good luck with the a&& end.
hawglet, Apr 15 2008, 09:08 PMTry a set of bar risers, I bought my 98 with GenMar riser already on it but it's great compared to without them. I'm 6'2" and plenty comfortable with plenty of leg room, arm reach, etc. There are a lot of taller, bigger, and large riders on VFRs and on the board I'ld guess, most of which seem to be very comfortable on the VFR. Good luck with the a&& end.
Riser are opposite of what I need. I need them LOWER!
miweber929, Apr 15 2008, 07:23 PMTo say I feel like i made a mistake is a huge understatment!
Mike
Don't freak mike, give it a chance! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)
-First thing I would do is spoon on a set of Pilot Powers, they will change the feel of the bike 100% compared to most ST tires, especially worn one's. - Drop the front end (raise tubes) 5-10mm to quicken steering - Set Sag - drop countershaft sprocket 1t to a 16t - install that Fox rear shock with proper spring rate and install the correct fork springs
If you can ride these things will keep up with any Sport bike in the Twisties. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/fing02.gif)
To say that a CBR's ergonomics is more comfortable tells me that you are just not used to the new position. The CBR must have conditioned your body to become comfortable with the lower bars and higher seat and pegs. Give the VFR a few miles for your body to settle down on it and you should be more comfortable on it in the long run than on ANY CBR.
You may or may not adjust to the different riding position due to your height.
I put aftermarket bars on mine to lower the bar height as I didn't really like the stock height myself. Clipons for 41mm forks will work just fine - take your pick.
miweber929, Apr 15 2008, 09:23 PMWell, I checked the triangle, and unless the owner swapped dog bones or the entire triangle, they are correct and the arrows point towards the front of the bike.
I may have not described this right, but the bike actaully sits high, i.e. acts like a strong ouff of wind will knock it over. Like the bike was lowered.
The tires are pretty darn shot (worn flat) so I am hoping that a tire change will bring the bike back up to a level that feels right. I also hope it gives it a feel better than it has as far as flickable: right now it feels like a tank.
I guess maybe I was expecting too much; I knew there was a difference between a sport and supersport but last year I rode a Gen 6 VFR and while the motor was most definitely less potent than the 929, it felt "tighter" and more whole. This bike feels soft and spongy. I kind of tyook everyones word thatr the Gen 5 pre-VTEC was the bike to have.
Also the bars and levers are horrible, in 10 minutes my arms ached so bad that I wished that I'd never sold the CBR. And for those who think the seat/bar/pegs relationship on a CBR is bad, my back and legs hurt WAY quicker then they ever did on the 929. I'd much sooner drive across country on the 929 than the VFR, there felt to be way better leg room for my 6'3" frame.
I actually called the guy I sold it to and offered to buy my old bike back. Any ideas on what I can do to make this one more solid and sporty without breaking the bank?
To say I feel like i made a mistake is a huge understatment!
Mike
I'm 6' and 190.Tires are definitly part of the problem wear and balance. But stock fork springs suck too. I put race tech on my 01 last winter and its a differnt bike. And it won't break the bank like a rea shock. I can't comment on the gen-mar's though.
Do a search for Peg Lowering Blocks. Great product made by one of our own (BusyLittleShop)that unfolds your legs a good bit.
My 5th Gen leans a good bit on the side stand. Sounds like someone altered something quite a bit on yours.
The 929 shock is the one you want. It needs to 1 7/16" longer. You can buy a new bracket, wack the bolt out w/ a hammer, and replace it w/ a longer one and add the spacer needed. I would make the spacer slightly shorter and use a washer to get the length. That way you can remove or add washers to get the perfect heigth. Several threads on that I know.
I have no idea what spring is on that shock you have but the stocker is 15.7Kg. I would assume that at 6'3" you weigh more than 170 lbs( what the stocker is setup for). The 15.7 Kg spring will be too lo. I would suggest going up on that rate the same% you go up on the front end not to exceed the .95Kg on the front. Balance is the key.
Thanks all for the help, forgot what a good group the VFR riders are.
I fell slightly better knowing there is a lot of info out there and I changed the tires tonight and went for a quick spin around the block (a little tires right now) and it seems a bit better. Tires were D220 Dunlop and were supposedly put on in 2001? Don't know if that model has been around that long, but WOW were they heavy, worn and STIFF!
I replaced 'em with Pilot Powers (which were some of my favorites on the 929), lowered the front end 5mm and it feels a bit more like a sporty bike should. I will wait a bit before I do the shock since I want to know how it was before changing how it is. My FOx shock looks like it's going to need a spring change as the numbers on the spring show it to be a 14.3. If I rememebr right, Race Tech indicated the shock to be sprung too stiff for the bike....I don't know!
Anyway, what bars are you guys using to LOWER the bars and be able to put the levers in a more "normal" position? I looked for VTR bars (should have kept the Superhawk I used to have maybe) at the local salvage yard, not a one according to their inventory. F4i's? F3? Vortex? I'd like to still be able to use my Throttlemeister if possible so I think a stock Honda style would be the best.
I guess it all boils down to the fact my 929 excited me just looking at it, not to mention riding it. The VFR, while is a noce looking bike just doesn't give me the rush the old 90 I used to have did. Or my old Superhawk. Or my F3 racebike did. Or my...well, you get the picture.
FYI - The CBR929 Fox shock can be made to work but it's current ride height adjustment isn't nearly enough. You'll need to have it modified to be longer, but that's pretty easy for someone to do. When I do this for people I fabricate an extension that screws between the piston rod and the mounting eye. If done correctly you'll still have plenty of adjustability.
Well, it's been almost a month and I am happy to report quite a bit of improvement and I am quite a bit happier.
Here is what I did:
1. New Pilot Powers. Bike rides MUCH better and handles quite a bit more "friendly".....not a 929, but much better.
2. Replaced the bars with VTR clipons. It wasn't a bolt-on mod, but with a bit of playing around and drilling a couple holes, the hand position os quite a bit better and more suited to me. I may still try some Gen 3 or 4 bars at some point to raise them a bit more than the VTR's, but for now a great upgrade mostly because I can tip my levers down to be more natural.
3. Probably the biggest improvement was replacing the dogbone in the suspension with a Gen 4 dog bone. The 5th Gen is 114mm from center to center of hole and the Gen 4 is 95mm. I still don't know why the rear of mine was so low since I cannot find anything to explain it other than the bike "feeling" wrong and sitting very high up on the sidestand. But it's in a much better position now and handles like it's 50 lbs. lighter. It maybe sits a little too high as the steering is a bit vague but I think a little playing might still help; I may move the triangles a bit to lower it maybe half way. I had lowered my forks 5mm to help the handling feel and I may have to raise 'em back up to get it better.
4. I got used to the power and having to spin the bike to make it go. My 929 had power from the get go and I only spun it past 8,000rpm when I was really trying to go; it barely needed 3rd, 4th, 5th, or 6th gear. Once you let the VFR run some RPM's you can make some pretty good time on it.
Last thing I need now is a pipe. Nothing too loud since I HATE loud pipes, but I am having to adjust my riding because I can't tell how fast I am going. And I REALLY miss th sound of the Two Brothers pipe I had on my 1990 VFR.
Any ideas on a good one that's not too loud? I had a Scorpion on my 929 which I really liked, and really liked the Staintunes on my old Superhawk. Not too interested in a D&D type that is WAY too loud, just want something that gives a nice rumble.
Anyone have something that they want to sell cheap for a GEN 5 (98-01)? I JUST bought a house, and am getting married in a little over a month and have zero money to stick into a pipe. Gotta be something someone doesn't use, want or replaced and has laying around that they'd like to move cheap.
If I had to do it all again, I'd probably just keep the 929, but since it's gone, I am getting just used to the new bike and getting more and more comfortable everyday.
Great news Mike, I'm glad your getting it sorted out closer to your likings! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/fing02.gif) As far as the rear being lower(before your 4th gen d-bone) maybe a shorter shock was installed like a 6th gen, it's around 1/2" shorter and looks the same. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/unsure.gif) 5th gen shock is 324mm eye to eye & 6th gen is 314mm eye to eye. I would almost bet that's what the PO did. PP at the best at making the VFR handle better, there a bolt on improvement for sure. Yosh has a real nice slip-on that's not loud at all when new. Staintune's always a good choice and have a removable spud. Flipping the triangle plates would be too much of a change IMO, I think it equals around an 1-1 1/4 " change at the tail light.
Keep playing until it's right. I would also suggest either dropping 1t on the front sprocket or up 2-3 in the rear for better pull out of turns.
Did you check if the chain addjustment hub eccentric position might be affecting the bike's rear ride height. On my 4th gen, the ride height gets lower as the chain stretches and the eccentric is adjusted to compensate....unfortunately. So, maybe a stretched chain is also causing the same on your bike. I'm not sure if it's the same situation with the 5th gens. If it is, a new chain (and sprockets, of course) will help revive your rear end ride height.
I wonder if the rear shock was replaced with something different? From another Honda model? CBR1100? 6th gen VFR?
It might LOOK like an OEM shock, but, for example, if someone replaced the stock 5th gen Showa shock with a stock 6th gen Showa shock, it would lower the bike appreciably.
A 5th gen shock is 325mm eye-to eye and a 6th gen is 317.5mm. (just checked the Ohlins site for that info now)
Given that the rear suspension operates on (nearly) a 2:1 ratio, that would lower the bike about 15mm at the rear.
325-317.5x2=15mm
FWIW, a CBR1100XX shock should be 319mm eye to eye.
veefer800canuck, May 14 2008, 08:31 PMGiven that the rear suspension operates on (nearly) a 2:1 ratio, that would lower the bike about 15mm at the rear.
FYI - Leverage ratios vary over the travel of the shock but are right around 3:1, not 2:1.
veefer800canuck, May 14 2008, 08:31 PMGiven that the rear suspension operates on (nearly) a 2:1 ratio, that would lower the bike about 15mm at the rear.
FYI - Leverage ratios vary over the travel of the shock but are right around 3:1, not 2:1.
I wasn't taking into account the operation of the triangles, rather the direct relationship between shock stroke and rear wheel travel.
1999 VFR800 shock stroke = 58mm
1999 VFR800 rear wheel travel = 120mm
120/58 = 2.07
So fitting a shock that is 10mm shorter than stock would drop the rear about 21mm (without making any other changes).
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