while gazing into my crystal ball i have seen the future.
some stuff is still a little cloudy so i will post those once the haze in the crystal ball clears.
1. DBW :( drive by wire. the next V4 will include DBW
more control for Honda / less control for us.
2. VVL :) Variable Valve Lift.
it will be able to adjust the valve lift on the fly.
1 + 2 will = increased MPG and smoother Vtec transitions for us.
3. Twin Clutch Gear box.
4. CVT, continuously variable automatic transmission, cruisers will see this soon.
5. Power Mirrors.
as speed increases the mirror glass will pivot down so that you can see while in a tucked in position.
Now i cant say for sure what bikes will receive these technologies. but rest assured we will see them soon.
:wheel:
Reading about Traction Control in Sport Rider now...
But, I guess our VFRs would need to more power before any TC would be necessary.
I'm still awaiting Honda's Anti-Crash and Death Repulser Force Field System so I can finally cancel my insurance. I bet we'll get lousy USD forks and radial front disc brakes before that. happens! :angry:
Beck
95 VFR
[image: View Post]ROUSE, on Jul 25 2008, 01:29 PM, said:
while gazing into my crystal ball i have seen the future.
some stuff is still a little cloudy so i will post those once the haze in the crystal ball clears.
1. DBW :( drive by wire. the next V4 will include DBW
more control for Honda / less control for us.
2. VVL :) Variable Valve Lift.
it will be able to adjust the valve lift on the fly.
1 + 2 will = increased MPG and smoother Vtec transitions for us.
3. Twin Clutch Gear box.
4. CVT, continuously variable automatic transmission, cruisers will see this soon.
5. Power Mirrors.
as speed increases the mirror glass will pivot down so that you can see while in a tucked in position.
Now i cant say for sure what bikes will receive these technologies. but rest assured we will see them soon.
:wheel:
Totally agree with (1) (2) (3) (4).......... :fing02: ....not so sure about (5)........ :rolleyes:
[image: View Post]ROUSE, on Jul 25 2008, 01:29 PM, said:
5. Power Mirrors.
as speed increases the mirror glass will pivot down so that you can see while in a tucked in position.
Who will need Power Mirrors when they'll be putting rear-view cameras in there with a small screen front and center?
:fing02:
Broadband Cell Phone Jammer.
Factory fitted Claymore Mine wiring.
HUD Transmitter.
[image: Posted Image]
Honda Power Mirror
:fing02:
whats everybody gonna do if the next VFR is equipped only with an automatic transmission?
as long as it can be shifted in manual mode and work like a traditional tranny, i think i would be ok with that.
if i didnt have to use a clutch lever and just hit a push button.
but if this thing shifts like a rubicon, its not gonna do very well.
[image: View Post]ROUSE, on Jul 25 2008, 03:39 PM, said:
whats everybody gonna do if the next VFR is equipped only with an automatic transmission?
as long as it can be shifted in manual mode and work like a traditional tranny, i think i would be ok with that.
if i didnt have to use a clutch lever and just hit a push button.
but if this thing shifts like a rubicon, its not gonna do very well.
"THIS" is the wave of the future, like it or not. Harley Davidson and Victory are about the only motorcycle companies that are not moving rapidly in this direction. Fully automatic mode, or 6 spd push button........I, for one, see no problem with it..... :rolleyes:
My left foot will get bored... :goofy:
[image: View Post]Auspa�ol, on Jul 25 2008, 03:53 PM, said:
My left foot will get bored... :goofy:
Remove boot, shift with toes on bars...it'll even up the excitement............... :biggrin:
Let the Auto vs. Manual Holy Wars begin....
I have no issue with CVT. Expect to see it in the future. It'll help a ton in stop and go traffic.
For (streetable) cars and trucks there is no longer a valid argument for Manual other than, "It's more fun."
Even rock crawlers are starting to use CVT.
Flame on ;)
[image: View Post]skuuter trash, on Jul 25 2008, 10:55 PM, said:
[image: View Post]Auspa�ol, on Jul 25 2008, 03:53 PM, said:
My left foot will get bored... :goofy:
Remove boot, shift with toes on bars...it'll even up the excitement............... :biggrin:
After the hi-vis safety thread I am surprised at you Skuut!!! :goofy:
Question: how will I be able to used the gears for braking??
[image: View Post]ROUSE, on Jul 25 2008, 05:39 PM, said:
but if this thing shifts like a rubicon, its not gonna do very well.
If it shares ANY attributes with a rubicon it's not going to do very well.
I don't think I mind any of the things you've mentioned, except for automatic power mirrors. One of the things I love about the VFR is that with my GIVI screen, I can criuse at 160Kph in my normal upright position. I get better milage tucked in, but if you're flying at 160, mpg isn't your main concern. (Additional) Blinkers on the mirrors would be a plus though.
If the CVT can replicate dropping from a 90kph cruise in 6th to 3rd and punching it, then I'll be sold. :biggrin:
[image: View Post]Auspa�ol, on Jul 25 2008, 04:06 PM, said:
[image: View Post]skuuter trash, on Jul 25 2008, 10:55 PM, said:
[image: View Post]Auspa�ol, on Jul 25 2008, 03:53 PM, said:
My left foot will get bored... :goofy:
Remove boot, shift with toes on bars...it'll even up the excitement............... :biggrin:
After the hi-vis safety thread I am surprised at you Skuut!!! :goofy:
Question: how will I be able to used the gears for braking??
"Supposedly", from what I've read, most prototypes have good compression braking in the shift mode, and can even be downshifted. My two 600 Silver Wing scooters would compression brake if you touched the brake lever...made em' downshift, and they are fully automatic............ :fing02: The Silver Wings could reel in some pretty good sport bikes in really tight twisty stuff.....grab throttle, fly right up to a corner, two finger the linked brakes, grab throttle again. No danger of wheel spin, or wheelie................... :fing02:
[image: View Post]Auspa�ol, on Jul 25 2008, 06:06 PM, said:
Question: how will I be able to used the gears for braking??
THAT is a very good question too.
there will be a small lever near the clutch that will control the mirrors.
i dont think the tranny on this model will be a CVT.
just a twin clutch design
Power mirrors on a motorcycle? That is just retarded, they are both less than an arm's length away. :comp13:
If you are going fast enough to be in a tuck, you won't be worrying about what's behind you.
[image: View Post]skuuter trash, on Jul 25 2008, 01:55 PM, said:
[image: View Post]Auspa�ol, on Jul 25 2008, 03:53 PM, said:
My left foot will get bored... :goofy:
Remove boot, shift with toes on bars...it'll even up the excitement............... :biggrin:
No more foot shifting? Cool, I'll be able to ride with sandals on!!! :squid: :blink:
[image: View Post]ROUSE, on Jul 25 2008, 01:29 PM, said:
while gazing into my crystal ball i have seen the future.
some stuff is still a little cloudy so i will post those once the haze in the crystal ball clears.
1. DBW :( drive by wire. the next V4 will include DBW
more control for Honda / less control for us.
Yamaha R1 & R6 already use it.
2. VVL :) Variable Valve Lift.
it will be able to adjust the valve lift on the fly.
1 + 2 will = increased MPG and smoother Vtec transitions for us.
VVT works great!
3. Twin Clutch Gear box.
4. CVT, continuously variable automatic transmission, cruisers will see this soon.
New Honda model has one now!
5. Power Mirrors.
as speed increases the mirror glass will pivot down so that you can see while in a tucked in position.
:laugh:
Now i cant say for sure what bikes will receive these technologies. but rest assured we will see them soon.
:wheel:
If the world were full of "me's" older bike values would be going up right about now... screw that automatic crap. If I want comfort and automation, I'll take my bland mood to my bland cage. Pfft.
New technology is cool, but.... do you realize how much "Joy" would be taken out of riding to just twist the throttle and go with no shifting interaction? I can see a Goldwing (longer ranged 100% comfort motorcycle) w/one but not something that has "Sport" in the name of it like a sport touring bike like the VFR :wheel: . Hope it doesnt come to that or I may have to go the CBR route for the next bike. :dry:
I would not be excited by the constant drone of a steady RPM... Through town, the twisties, the highway... Blah... The vibrations not changing frequency would drive me nuts too.
I can see the CVT going to the ST1300 with focus on the "manual" shift mode. GW would definitely get it. But not into the VFR quite as soon.
Bring on the double clutch though. :biggrin:
Seeing as how the FJRs with electric shift aren't exactly flying of the showroom floors, I would think that the manufacturers would be smarter than trying to bring that crap to anything else other than maybe the wing as an option.
Honda has drive by wire on their cars now. To the trained person there is a noticeable delay. It is very minor but the mechanical link to the throttle butterfly is gone. I dont like it. It just doesnt fel the same.
Honda also has CVT. It would truly suck on a moyorcycle. BORING
Power mirrors. Come on now, really?
I am so looking forward to the future of transmissions.
Fed up of clutching in city traffic
hate it when I roll to easy stop and have to downshift 5 gears and coaxing each gear with a slight clutch engagement (doesn't happen often but feel like a real noob when I fussing with the tranny at a stop sign intersection)
hate it when I have to grab clutch mid turn on the twisties, disturbing my grip and balance
I agree that an infinitely variable transmission that is programmed to keep motor optimal RPM at all times would result in a boring constant drone. However the programming can be altered to behave in a more 'traditional' pattern. In fact this has already been done on some cars (Volkswagons IIRC).
All you guys that monkey around with the mods: imagine the fun you can have playing around with the tranny code, changing not only the number of gears but the ratios as well. Imagine having different ratios going up the gears than coming down, different ratios for light throttle and touring, rain, one up vs. two up, uphill/downhill, black bike vs. red bike...
Personally, I still pine for the kick start, carburated, drum braked bike on skinny tires.
Brian
[image: View Post]DDO-VFR, on Jul 26 2008, 08:18 AM, said:
Personally, I still pine for the kick start, carburated, drum braked bike on skinny tires.
Brian
I don't really pine for em' anymore, but sure have fun riding one every chance I get.............. :fing02:
[image: View Post]DDO-VFR, on Jul 26 2008, 09:18 AM, said:
hate it when I roll to easy stop and have to downshift 5 gears and coaxing each gear with a slight clutch engagement (doesn't happen often but feel like a real noob when I fussing with the tranny at a stop sign intersection)
hate it when I have to grab clutch mid turn on the twisties, disturbing my grip and balance
That's simple to fix. STOP DOING THAT! You should be downshifting as you come up to the stop, NOT when you get there. You need to have a rideable gear available for emergency maneuvering, not to mention you could be using the engine braking.
You also should NOT be using the clutch in the middle of a turn! You should be doing all your shifting before and after the turn, unless for some reason you encounter an obstacle and need to make an extreme line change while panic braking.
Please practice these things or you will end up on your butt!
The closest thing to automation I think I could stand in my motorcycle powertrain is a quickshifter, but only for upshifts. I enjoy modulating my clutch when slowing down.
i have drive by wire in my truck ( nissan titan) ....it sux not only is there a delay but the factory limited throttle opening till you get to about 40mph then you'll get full throttle . granted you can send your computer out for 500 bones and have it removed but thats just ridiculous
honda has had their ups and downs with DBW.
there are 3 engines in particular
K20Z1 05+ RSX type S
K20Z3 06+ Civic Si
K24A2 TSX
the K20Z3 from the civic has the dreaded rev hang. dead spot when you floor it and hangs when you shift at high rpm. my buddies turbo Jetta GLI has the same issue.
the K20Z1 in my RSX is nearly perfect. no problems at all.
K24 suffers from the problems of the K20Z3.
the funny part is that the K24A2 had the problem then the K20Z1 had no problems then the K20Z3 comes out a year later and has the problem again. you would figure that they wouldnt have that problem since they were able to get rid of it a year before with the Z1.
that along with the variable valve lift is gonna be interesting.
the valve lift is not gonna be like honda or toyotas dual cam lobe system. its gonna be able to be adjusted on the fly not just high or low.
[image: Posted Image]
honda variable valve lift drawing
and you though valve adjustments were expensive before.... hahaha.
looks like me and baily rock are gonna be the only ones who dont care about it.
[image: View Post]SEBSPEED, on Jul 26 2008, 09:40 AM, said:
You should be doing all your shifting before and after the turn,
I shift mid turn sometimes. I don't use the clutch when I am doing it though :biggrin:
[image: View Post]jeremy556, on Jul 26 2008, 07:45 PM, said:
[image: View Post]SEBSPEED, on Jul 26 2008, 09:40 AM, said:
You should be doing all your shifting before and after the turn,
I shift mid turn sometimes. I don't use the clutch when I am doing it though :biggrin:
Alright, alright, I'm guilty too, but it's just a clutchless upshift on the way out, I swear! :rolleyes:
[image: View Post]jeremy556, on Jul 26 2008, 04:45 PM, said:
[image: View Post]SEBSPEED, on Jul 26 2008, 09:40 AM, said:
You should be doing all your shifting before and after the turn,
I shift mid turn sometimes. I don't use the clutch when I am doing it though :biggrin:
clutch?
[image: View Post]ROUSE, on Jul 26 2008, 05:25 PM, said:
honda has had their ups and downs with DBW.
there are 3 engines in particular
K20Z1 05+ RSX type S
K20Z3 06+ Civic Si
K24A2 TSX
the K20Z3 from the civic has the dreaded rev hang. dead spot when you floor it and hangs when you shift at high rpm. my buddies turbo Jetta GLI has the same issue.
the K20Z1 in my RSX is nearly perfect. no problems at all.
K24 suffers from the problems of the K20Z3.
the funny part is that the K24A2 had the problem then the K20Z1 had no problems then the K20Z3 comes out a year later and has the problem again. you would figure that they wouldnt have that problem since they were able to get rid of it a year before with the Z1.
that along with the variable valve lift is gonna be interesting.
the valve lift is not gonna be like honda or toyotas dual cam lobe system. its gonna be able to be adjusted on the fly not just high or low.
[image: Posted Image]
honda variable valve lift drawing
and you though valve adjustments were expensive before.... hahaha.
looks like me and baily rock are gonna be the only ones who dont care about it.
I don't have a problem DBW on my R18A1. :knocks on wood:
[image: View Post]ROUSE, on Jul 26 2008, 07:25 PM, said:
honda has had their ups and downs with DBW.
there are 3 engines in particular
K20Z1 05+ RSX type S
K20Z3 06+ Civic Si
K24A2 TSX
the K20Z3 from the civic has the dreaded rev hang. dead spot when you floor it and hangs when you shift at high rpm. my buddies turbo Jetta GLI has the same issue.
the K20Z1 in my RSX is nearly perfect. no problems at all.
K24 suffers from the problems of the K20Z3.
the funny part is that the K24A2 had the problem then the K20Z1 had no problems then the K20Z3 comes out a year later and has the problem again. you would figure that they wouldnt have that problem since they were able to get rid of it a year before with the Z1.
I've got a 2007 TSX, and I've definately got the rev hang on high RPM upshifts. I can usually prevent it by not getting completely off the gas while shifting. What's even more annoying is that you can't just blip the throttle on downshifts because the delay in the DBW system doesn't get the RPMs up quick enough. You have to hold the pedal down for about half a second for the engine to rev up. Definately not something I'd want on a motorcycle.
I drove a VW GTI with the DSG 6speed tranny. A paddle Shifting Auto Matic. Who needs a clutch with a tranny like that. It was freaking awesome. Audi and POrsche are also using a version of it. If you want to see kick a-- but affordable technology go test drive a GTI. Sweeeet.
I do a ton of City Driving, so an automatic is way easier to deal with. That said, never on a Motorcycle. MAybe a CSV Scooter, but not an a real Motorcycle.
End of thread · 37 posts recovered Wayback Machine snapshot 8 Feb 2011