I've been doing alot of thinking lately, mainly about safety. I've seen one too many motorcycle wrecks, and its got me thinking. As much as I love riding, I have to weigh the potential risk. Can I live with the worst case scenario? I'm starting to think not. I ride with full gear every time I go out, but there are still too many unavoidable risks. Any thoughts or input from anyone that may put more positive thoughts in my mind?
If I do decide to sell the VFR, what might a fair asking price be? It's a white '06 with about 13,000 miles. It's has a couple scuffs (very small) on both sides of the upper fairing but otherwise it looks new. Helibars, Laser Deeptone exhaust, Givi V35 saddlebags and a Corbin seat (I may take the accessory stuff off and sell seperately but still unsure) All maintenance is up to date and documented. Tires are 50%.
Thanks everyone...maybe im just having a moment of weakness? :blink:
That's a decision you're going to have to make on your own. I think most people that ride, know that every time you throw a leg over your bike and go out for a ride, it could be the last time. However, I will ask you this: Do you not feel the most alive and in tune with everything that is going on around you when you ride your bike? I do. And that is a risk I take each time. I know we have no control over what other people are doing or are going to do, but as a motorcyclist, you do everything you can to eliminate problems before they arise. And ATGATT is for the unforeseeable.
I am sort of in the same boat you are too. I have two young children and do not want them to be left fatherless because either I was pushing it too far in my favorite canyon or that someone turned left in front of me at an intersection while riding in town. I am still choosing to ride because I love it, I have a good life insurance policy, and my family understands my passion for it. In a few years when my son is older and I have less time to ride or do not feel like commuting on it, I will sell it and come back to motorcycling again later - something which I have done before.
If you feel the risk outweighs the enjoyment or when you are riding and you are more worried than enjoying it, then it may be time for you to take a break. Remember, you can always go back to it.
I have been through the same thing. I have stopped riding several times over the years for various reasons like my kids, worries about safety and financial reasons like going back to school for a degree. I always seem to get drawn back to it though.
If you do decide to stop riding KEEP THE BIKE because you will be back :) Just find a nice safe spot in your garage or basement and take the necessary steps to protect her for long term storage. You won't regret it as later you may want to ride again but may not have the funds to buy another bike.
If you do sit out a while make sure to take a refresher course before getting back on just to shake some of the rust off your skills :)
Exactly what i was going to say.You give up the bike and you better have a sport or hobby that is going to fill the void !Read this very very carefuly as I said "sport or hobby" for yourself NOT you and the woman like buying a freaking camper or something like that !!
Sell it and you'll be sorry.In not to long after you'll be back on here asking everyone if this bike is a good buy !! Why sell if you really don't need to. Take some back roads and clear your mind before doing something crazy like this.As the above posts said,It's way cheaper keeping the bike then telling what's on your mind to a doctor laying on his bed in his office !! Another thought is most people on here just ride with one or two friends.try getting involved in a much higher scale ride like "good cause rides for kids,fallen vets etc" These rides will change how you think about motorcycling.Go and meet new riding friends and enjoy life on your VFR. Sparkyd31
My opinion regarding your situation is that if you're questioning the hobby, you should probably get out. Too many times that "little voice" that caues you to question things comes from a higher power. Trust your intuition.
I may be the odd man out but I've never considered not riding. I was without a bike for the 3 years when I was in the Army and hated every minute of it. Granted I don't do the mileage that I have in the past, but not to have a bike just never entered my mind. I don't ride with groups as a rule, I live in a relatively sparsely populated part of the country, and have never been down on a street bike so maybe that influences my choices. I've wanted motorcycles since I was old enough to know what they were. If riding makes you nervous or uncomfortable, for whatever reason, don't do it. IMO having those feelings will make you hesitant on the street, and that is not something to be.
Like the old saying (from my era): If it feels good, do it. Motorcycling is not for everyone, and deciding you don't want to ride is strictly your choice. You may get out for a couple of years and find you miss it more than you realize and come back to it at some point. It all boils down to your choice.
I dont wish to sound insensitive, but you could sell your bike and give up riding and the next week land a few miles short of the runway in Amsterdam and buy it.
Not trying to persuade you either way. Just think alot about it before you arrive at a descision.
Biking is my therapy. Why would I give up something that puts a smile on my face even if it as mundane as commuting to school/work?
But you are not me. Frankly, if your fear is out weighting the fun of the ride it is time for you to take a break. Do as others have said: Park it some where safe and drive your cage around. Let me just point out this though (it's my favorite argument to those who always say "Isn't driving a motorcycle dangerous?"): "You could die just as easily in a car as on a bike. Heck you can die just getting out of bed in the morning and tripping over something."
Your life so your call. They can take my bike when they pry it out of my dead hands. ;)
Edit: Just saw Timmy's post. My sentiments exactly. :fing02:
If I was getting wiggy about cagers and other motorcycle related risks, I would try to slow it all down before giving it up.. like a DRZ400 or 650, or even a DL650..
the VFR is a fast motorcycle.. no question. If you have the chance, check out some "slower" bikes, with a more relaxed ergo. They make you slow down, and give you awesome sight lines, that really make it comfortable to smell the roses kind of riding..
I have a few slower speed bikes that I really enjoy.. possibly I am getting old, but I love back roads on smaller bikes.. It feels like stepping back to what motorcycles were all about..
[image: View Post]kb2wji, on Feb 28 2009, 04:42 PM, said:
I've been doing alot of thinking lately, mainly about safety. I've seen one too many motorcycle wrecks, and its got me thinking. As much as I love riding, I have to weigh the potential risk. Can I live with the worst case scenario? I'm starting to think not. I ride with full gear every time I go out, but there are still too many unavoidable risks. Any thoughts or input from anyone that may put more positive thoughts in my mind?
If I do decide to sell the VFR, what might a fair asking price be? It's a white '06 with about 13,000 miles. It's has a couple scuffs (very small) on both sides of the upper fairing but otherwise it looks new. Helibars, Laser Deeptone exhaust, Givi V35 saddlebags and a Corbin seat (I may take the accessory stuff off and sell seperately but still unsure) All maintenance is up to date and documented. Tires are 50%.
Thanks everyone...maybe im just having a moment of weakness? :blink:
[image: View Post]CrazyT, on Feb 28 2009, 12:40 PM, said:
[image: View Post]kb2wji, on Feb 28 2009, 11:42 AM, said:
Thanks everyone...maybe im just having a moment of weakness? :blink:
Yes. It's raining outside, that's why. It's supposed to be a nice weekend next week. Give me a pm and lets go for a ride.
Other than that, if you decide to sell, it's worth $1000, and you want to sell local.... :cool:
The rain sure doesnt help! I'm a Chattanooga cop, and worked a wreck last night where a woman on a scooter was making a left turn, and a car t-boned her pretty bad. I've seen some scary stuff, but the way her legs were mangled was a real eye opener. I think thats what got me on my tangent. I defenitely will take you up on that ride however :biggrin: When I am on the bike, I'm confident and careful, and dont really think of the what-if's. It plagues me more when I DONT ride. I only have off this wednesday and thursday unfortunately. Sooner or later we'll have to ride though. Thanks for the input! :cool:
[image: View Post]kb2wji, on Feb 28 2009, 12:57 PM, said:
[image: View Post]CrazyT, on Feb 28 2009, 12:40 PM, said:
[image: View Post]kb2wji, on Feb 28 2009, 11:42 AM, said:
Thanks everyone...maybe im just having a moment of weakness? :blink:
Yes. It's raining outside, that's why. It's supposed to be a nice weekend next week. Give me a pm and lets go for a ride.
Other than that, if you decide to sell, it's worth $1000, and you want to sell local.... :cool:
The rain sure doesnt help! I'm a Chattanooga cop, and worked a wreck last night where a woman on a scooter was making a left turn, and a car t-boned her pretty bad. I've seen some scary stuff, but the way her legs were mangled was a real eye opener. I think thats what got me on my tangent. I defenitely will take you up on that ride however :biggrin: When I am on the bike, I'm confident and careful, and dont really think of the what-if's. It plagues me more when I DONT ride. I only have off this wednesday and thursday unfortunately. Sooner or later we'll have to ride though. Thanks for the input! :cool:
Another cop on a VFR. I swear there must be a correlation. And in the mean time for everybody else.......you guys have somthing in common with cops! Ha.
I know what you are talking about. I try to avoid 10-50s with motorbikes involved. Just keep your head down and mind your back while you figure it out.
I thought about quiting once. It lasted for about 1.5 hours. Thats about how long it took to scoop me off the track and get me to the hospital. I woke up from surgery wondering when I could ride again.
Only you can answer the question truthfuly. If you are questioning riding it may be time for a break. You have to be commited and there is no such thing as being half way commited.
I've been riding street bikes since 1965,and at 64 years old,I'd rather go to my grave doing what I injoy,than being bored the rest of my life,then rot away with cancer at an old age.
I would say If you are good safe rider,you can't look at the odds,but you can get more involved with ROAD riding books/classes/videos/etc.
When I went to Vet-Nam it was nerve racking for a while,but you get over it,and learn to take cover.....Monk
I've been an avid cyclist for over 20 years. Ridding a pedaler is probably more nerve racking than a Moto. Every time I ride at least a few times ont he rides we get buzzed by cars, trucks you name it... wearing spandex witha foam helmet. It can be scary but I enjoy it and it keeps my in shape. And I have gotten banged up a good bit over the years from racing and accidents...
AND I still think about getting hurt while I am out cycling. I rarely go out alone anymore because of the danger of getting hit and being out by myself... This is after 20+ years and over 50K miles..
When I ride the VFR I think about getting hit to. I have thought about selling mine with a 18 month old. I waited a long time, I'm 40, to have a family and I would hate to get KIA'ed and miss my little boy growing up.
BUT life is short and I really enjoy the VFR and my bicycle's... I just leave it in Gods hands. But that does take faith. I also don't go knee dragging fast sicne I have 20+ years of driving cars on race tracks and know how fast things can go from "yee haa" to "holy shit"... Not worth ridding the VFR enywhere close to a point where that might happen on the street.. A track is a diffrent story with run off :biggrin:
Keep the VFR. It is a "slower bike" if the brain controlling the throttle grip makes it so. As I have said before, I have an adult child who is 100% disabled and dependant on me (a single dad) for the rest of my/his life. I am careful and no longer knee drag any more. As far as getting killed just as easily in a car - not likely. You really have to work at tipping a car on its side and then sliding your un-enclosed body down the tarmac. ATGATT notwithstanding. Not so with a bike.
Based on what you seem to be thinking, maybe you should just park it and take a break. Riding mine keeps me "sane" and allows me to better deal with my responsibilities as a single parent, but if I don't "feel right" about getting on two wheels I don't. Better to pass up todays ride to be able to have others. Whatever you decide will be the right decision for you. Good luck.
[image: View Post]motorhead1977, on Feb 28 2009, 04:14 PM, said:
Keep the VFR. It is a "slower bike" if the brain controlling the throttle grip makes it so. As I have said before, I have an adult child who is 100% disabled and dependant on me (a single dad) for the rest of my/his life. I am careful and no longer knee drag any more. As far as getting killed just as easily in a car - not likely. You really have to work at tipping a car on its side and then sliding your un-enclosed body down the tarmac. ATGATT notwithstanding. Not so with a bike.
Based on what you seem to be thinking, maybe you should just park it and take a break. Riding mine keeps me "sane" and allows me to better deal with my responsibilities as a single parent, but if I don't "feel right" about getting on two wheels I don't. Better to pass up todays ride to be able to have others. Whatever you decide will be the right decision for you. Good luck.
I think that this is one of the most mature posts I have ever read--somewhat sobering; the wisdom here leavened with experience is priceless. A decision that you yourself must make on your own... if you bite it tomorrow is has to be because you made your choice and have chosen to live (sic) by it. I don't foresee me not having a bike. I have had closer calls in my 93 Cobra. Fact is you stand a better chance of avoiding an incident on your bike than you will in your car just because of your ability to respond and change directions faster on it: that said, bikes don't have bumpers. I agree with most everyone; however if your innerman says get off... some of you may not be spiritually inclined but if I get up in the morning and my inner man says don't go down a particular road ( by unease or strong intuition) I go another way.
go track only. ride at your own pace... in one direction... in a closed, controlled setting... with no cages or intersecting streets... with maximum gear.
[image: View Post]superchode, on Feb 28 2009, 05:11 PM, said:
go track only. ride at your own pace... in one direction... in a closed, controlled setting... with no cages or intersecting streets... with maximum gear.
And crash at 140mph instead of 40mph. Sorry, had to say it. Lets not start a track vs. street thread. Leave it at that guys.
[image: View Post]superchode, on Feb 28 2009, 05:11 PM, said:
go track only. ride at your own pace... in one direction... in a closed, controlled setting... with no cages or intersecting streets... with maximum gear.
[image: View Post]soichiro, on Feb 28 2009, 11:40 PM, said:
[image: View Post]superchode, on Feb 28 2009, 05:11 PM, said:
go track only. ride at your own pace... in one direction... in a closed, controlled setting... with no cages or intersecting streets... with maximum gear.
And crash at 140mph instead of 40mph. Sorry, had to say it. Lets not start a track vs. street thread. Leave it at that guys.
no intention of starting an argument.
d00d asked for opinions on the feelings he was having about motorcycle safety. if i had serious reservations about the dangers of riding... what i recommended is exactly what i'd do, with respect to street bikes. i'd probably be doing some serious off-road/trail riding as well.
[image: View Post]superchode, on Feb 28 2009, 05:54 PM, said:
[image: View Post]soichiro, on Feb 28 2009, 11:40 PM, said:
[image: View Post]superchode, on Feb 28 2009, 05:11 PM, said:
go track only. ride at your own pace... in one direction... in a closed, controlled setting... with no cages or intersecting streets... with maximum gear.
And crash at 140mph instead of 40mph. Sorry, had to say it. Lets not start a track vs. street thread. Leave it at that guys.
no intention of starting an argument.
d00d asked for opinions on the feelings he was having about motorcycle safety. if i had serious reservations about the dangers of riding... what i recommended is exactly what i'd do, with respect to street bikes. i'd probably be doing some serious off-road/trail riding as well.
feel free to offer your own advice.
edit: clarity
People RARELY die at the track. I'm sure a quick google search will provide statistical verification.
[image: View Post]kb2wji, on Feb 28 2009, 11:42 AM, said:
I've been doing alot of thinking lately, mainly about safety. I've seen one too many motorcycle wrecks, and its got me thinking. As much as I love riding, I have to weigh the potential risk. Can I live with the worst case scenario? I'm starting to think not. I ride with full gear every time I go out, but there are still too many unavoidable risks. Any thoughts or input from anyone that may put more positive thoughts in my mind?
If I do decide to sell the VFR, what might a fair asking price be? It's a white '06 with about 13,000 miles. It's has a couple scuffs (very small) on both sides of the upper fairing but otherwise it looks new. Helibars, Laser Deeptone exhaust, Givi V35 saddlebags and a Corbin seat (I may take the accessory stuff off and sell seperately but still unsure) All maintenance is up to date and documented. Tires are 50%.
Thanks everyone...maybe im just having a moment of weakness? :blink:
Hardly weakness, Kbw2. Probably wisdom and maturity. You are on the upside of your twenties. That means you are beginning to seriously get good sense. What people my age (63) term wisdom, some of your contemporaries would term wimpiness. At 63, I prefer to err on the side of caution. I have much more to loose and more people depend on my being around and in one piece. I want to ride. I like to ride. Every time I mount the bike I am a bit nervous. It just makes me more careful. I think that may be what is going on with you. In any case, you must do that with which you are comfortable, but as someone has said, you can buy the farm by driving to work in the morning. Many have and will. Your discomfort in short, imo, is due to maturity. Do what you need to do to become more comfortable, ie safety course refresher, seat time, less risky routes avoiding the "knee draggers". That said, sometimes an inner voice is telling us something. Don't create a message that is not there.
Obviously, everyone is different and everyone has different reasons for riding - or not riding. No one can tell you what to do, but I'd say if you don't feel like it's worth it anymore it's time to take a break. Maybe you should take a month or two off the bike and see how you feel. If you don't really miss it, either sell the bike or prep and park it long-term. If you decide to sell it, I'd do it come spring. The longer you wait, the less it'll be worth.
I have a wife, two kids, a mortgage and many bills to pay. My wife upped my life insurance when I started riding - which was a great idea BTW. Yes, riding is dangerous, but it's also part of who I am. I grew up on two wheels and not much in this world feels better than riding my motorcycle. I've questioned my selfishness in continuing to ride with the life and loved ones I have around me, but simply put, motorcycling is in my blood. It would take a lot for me to quit.
Each year I ride I end up wearing more gear and probably ride a little slower, too. I was just thinking this weekend that I need to take fewer chances this year than I did last year. (That doesn't mean some idiotic cager won't still cream me, but I'll be in more control more of the time I'm riding.) Not that I rode like a maniac before, but I have too many reasons to be more cautious.
Bad motorcycle wrecks can really mess with your head. I know for the officers who ride that sometimes seeing the aftermath of those wrecks is inevitable, as it's part of the job, but as a 'civilian' I try to stay away from photos of such scenes. I already know what the risks are and just don't feel the need for visual reminders, esp. the really gory ones.
personally if its all about "risk". well you take risks everyday. you could suffocate sleeping in bed. you could slip and fall taking a shower. get hit by a car going to work..... etc.
so to me motorcycling is just another risk.yea its taking a bigger one but really nothing is "safe".
[image: View Post]kb2wji, on Feb 28 2009, 12:57 PM, said:
The rain sure doesnt help! I'm a Chattanooga cop, and worked a wreck last night where a woman on a scooter was making a left turn, and a car t-boned her pretty bad. I've seen some scary stuff, but the way her legs were mangled was a real eye opener. I think thats what got me on my tangent. I defenitely will take you up on that ride however :biggrin: When I am on the bike, I'm confident and careful, and dont really think of the what-if's. It plagues me more when I DONT ride. I only have off this wednesday and thursday unfortunately. Sooner or later we'll have to ride though. Thanks for the input! :cool:
Keep the bike, change careers. You'll lower the risk you're exposed to, get to keep riding and not have to see as much of the things which can go horribly wrong.
In all seriousness, you are in a high risk occupation, have you considered abandoning it?
If you can't shake the feeling, I would recommend parking the bike for awhile before selling it. If you sell it and decide it was the wrong move, you'll end up having burned a G or two. Might be enough of a financial hardship that you find justification for putting it off and ending up with regret.
You have to do whats right for you. Easy to say but hard to do with macho male ego and the smiling motorcycle rider sitting on one shoulder with a voice whispering "ride, ride, ride" in one ear, and family commitments, job, idiot cage drivers whispering in your other ear that you have to be nuts to ride....
Speaking of jobs--as a LEO I'm sure you are well trained, have excellent protective gear, and have the unknown of not knowing what sort of wacko is around the next corner or who is behind the wheel on your next traffic stop. But, you find a way to reconcile that and go to work everyday. Calculating the risk everyday I suppose. you never know whats around the next corner.
I was an army helo pilot for 25 years and an aircraft accident investigator for the last two years of my career. I heard that little voice a bunch during my flying career--while not exactly like choosing to stay with motorcycling, the emotions are the same.
Now that i'm almost 51 and a happy military retiree, with a job, mortgage, kids in college, I still do as I did as an army aviator--make sure I have a solid machine, faith in that machine, proper training, maintain my situational awareness, stay within MY limits, and wear protective gear. In the case of protective gear--I'm a travelling yellow highliter--yellow 'stich, yellow helmet, hyper-lites, fork mounted LEDs.....whatever it takes to enhance the situation awareness of the idiot cagers...... like I said, you gotta do whats right for you.
Dr Phil, out. :biggrin:
Been there and done that! Started riding in 1980. Have owned too many bikes to count and last year I added up the miles I've ridden on all my bikes. 300K (+) with only one accident. That accident was on my first bike and I was just out of highschool. In 2002, I stopped riding mainly because of my wife. I started riding again last year and since then, I have often thought of that next accident. I can not stand the thought of making my wife a widow but as others have written, nothing is safe. Car wrecks, cancer, work related accidents or any number of situations can cause us to leave this earthly realm. One person wrote, "leave it in God's hands." This is all you need to do. Good luck, JD
[image: View Post]kb2wji, on Feb 28 2009, 11:57 AM, said:
The rain sure doesnt help! I'm a Chattanooga cop, and worked a wreck last night where a woman on a scooter was making a left turn, and a car t-boned her pretty bad. I've seen some scary stuff, but the way her legs were mangled was a real eye opener. I think thats what got me on my tangent. I defenitely will take you up on that ride however :biggrin: When I am on the bike, I'm confident and careful, and dont really think of the what-if's. It plagues me more when I DONT ride. I only have off this wednesday and thursday unfortunately. Sooner or later we'll have to ride though. Thanks for the input! :cool:
I am also a police officer and have seen my share of nasty crashes. I approach motorcycling with the same philisophy as police work: I understand and accept the additional risks because I enjoy it. I use my training, knowledge, and experience to mitigate those risks as much as I can, but there are no guarantees. When your numbers up, it's up.
I must admit that I've not ridden for a week or 2 after working a bad m/c crash. Funny, I've never considered giving up driving a car after working car fatalities.
In this tread I've heard a few references to letting God take care of it.........Which is fine......but don't forget that God helps those that helps their selves......as in my ever present sig......Monk
I walked away from this head on this spring and really only thought about how mad I was loosing the bike ( a beemer guy that had no MC liscense hit me head on after blowing a turn and crossing the line), I never thought of not riding again. I happen to be very harsh with riders too, and believe that if they paid more attention and rode withen their limits many of the cage at fault crashes would never happen. +10000 on the therapy thing, bikes and dogs are all I need:) :) :) :)
My rules of riding:
1 EVERY THING THAT HAPPENS IS MY FAULT
2 THE GUY THAT DESIGNED THE ROAD DID SO TO KILL ME
3 EVERY BODY ON THE ROAD LEFT THE HOUSE IN THE MORNING wITH THE INTENT OF MURDERING ME!!!!!!
The line about it is not if but when you go down is B.S.
NEVER TRUST A CAGE, A TRUCK, OR ANOTHER BIKE YOU DO NOT KNOw never never never.
I haven't read all of the replies to this thread, but my decisions are based on my ability to bring the risk to an acceptable level. As somebody mentioned earlier (or several somebodies), everything we do has an associated level of risk. While getting out of bed, you might step wrong, twist your ankle, fall and hit your head causing your departure from this world.
Only you can determine the level of risk you are willing to accept. Providing a secure financial future for your family in case something happens may help. A living will where somebody whom you trust (that isn't going to benefit financially) understands your point of view (and isn't immediate family) to make the crucial decision may help. Appropriate (for your comfort) gear and rider training as well as making intelligent decisions on when to ride (not angry, distracted, intoxicated) can all impact a rider's safety and comfort.
Basically, it comes down to the fact that life is a gamble and you need to make the odds acceptable for you. If you can't bring the risk to an acceptable level that includes continuing to ride, then you need to stop riding (at least for now).
I mostly ride alone, often wandering aimlessly with no planned route. I just have to ride. I don't know how to explain why, though. To me, it's as necessary as breathing. Nothing else gives me the same feeling. The only thing that ever stops me is ice or snow, and occasionally rain. I don't care how cold or hot it is, I'm going to ride. It's just an exquisite experience like no other.
I went out for a few hours today to try out my new heated gear. Works great! But there's still a lot of grit and sand in places from the last ice/snow we got, and I hit some in a tight right-hander. The front tire starting sliding out, but then grabbed, the bike shuddered, and I luckily stayed upright. Puckered up a bit over that. So no matter how careful you are, stuff can happen. But I would never even consider giving it up. To me, it's worth the risk.
To answer your question, no, you can�t live with the worst case scenario,(obviously) you would be dead.
I have been first on scene at a couple of motorcycle fatalities, and have lost close friends on two wheels, though thankfully, not both at the same time. All I can suggest is to winterize the bike and leave it in the corner of the garage instead of selling it. You probably can�t get shit for it with the current economy and credit markets, and you will probably change your mind anyway.
My dos centavos:
I'm 55, been riding off and on for over 35 years and have always ridden "carefully". Full gear, bike in top notch condition, exercising full situational awareness. Want to rip on a really great road? Recon ride first. Can't, then just be satisfied riding a nice 'pace'. I've walked away from more shit in my job than anybody has a right to and believe life is for living. Don't feel like riding? Then don't. Take a break-a day, a week, a month. Great line from an old movie "If there is any doubt, there is no doubt." Your "6th Sense" is no BS, it's what kept our ancestors alive. Do what makes you feel best, no one can argue with your decision.
[image: View Post]kb2wji, on Feb 28 2009, 05:42 PM, said:
As much as I love riding, I have to weigh the potential risk. Can I live with the worst case scenario? I'm starting to think not. I ride with full gear every time I go out, but there are still too many unavoidable risks.
Motorcycling is dangerous, according to the statistics - you are 14 times more likely to die riding a motorcycle than driving a car. So you need to dissect this a bit:
* Most people who crash have no training
* Most people who crash were overriding their abilities
* Most people who crash are not wearing good riding gear
I would say that you can reduce your risk significantly if you improve your skills, knowledge and self-discipline. I avoid riding places/times that are worst for collisions. I avoid riding over my head. I avoid riding without gear. I train my mind/body to take the appropriate actions in an emergency without hesistation.
There is still no guarantee you will not get hurt or die. But if motorcycling is what makes it worthwhile to get going in the morning, at least make it as manageable a part of your life as you can.
I agree with all that has been said..............Thats why this is such a great forum..........I have three kids 10,9, and 7. I love them very very much. I am also a LEO in a gang infested area of Toronto, Ontario, Canada. I have been trained to deal with all the sh*%t, that I deal with. There are also a lot of good people in amongst the sh*%t. Those are the people I do my job for, anyway I also ride and I know that riding is dangerous,but no dangerous than stepping off of a sidewalk to cross the road. Like work take all the training that is available.......(Motorcycle courses etc). Be aware and be a defensive rider, always expect a cager to do something stupid and try to be prepared to react. I recently got back into motorcycling and I absolutely love it. I ride within my means and I never lose respect for what my viffer can do. If you are having doubts then maybe you should take a break for awhile.............I guarantee that you will end up buying another bike. Good Luck in your decision!!! Steve
[image: View Post]Centralontrider, on Mar 1 2009, 05:04 AM, said:
I am also a LEO in a gang infested area of Toronto, Ontario, Canada...
OK, that just burst my obviously naive vision of Canada. I thought our friends to the north lived in a virtually crime free environment. Years ago I would visit Toronto once a month on business, and did this for a number of years. It was the cleanest and, I thought, one of the safest cities in North America. Has it changed, or was I just living under an illusion?
:offtopic: ...yes I know. Sorry!
[image: View Post]Knife, on Mar 1 2009, 10:08 AM, said:
[image: View Post]Centralontrider, on Mar 1 2009, 05:04 AM, said:
I am also a LEO in a gang infested area of Toronto, Ontario, Canada...
OK, that just burst my obviously naive vision of Canada. I thought our friends to the north lived in a virtually crime free environment. Years ago I would visit Toronto once a month on business, and did this for a number of years. It was the cleanest and, I thought, one of the safest cities in North America. Has it changed, or was I just living under an illusion?
:offtopic: ...yes I know. Sorry!
I think the gangs up there are just much more polite, sort of like...."excuse me sir, I must really take that car you are driving so it can be used in a crime" and the like. :laugh: Naw, gangs are equal opportunity blighters IMHO.
I really appreciate all of the responses. I know that everything I do, especially my career choice, has inherent risk. Being a LEO is dangerous, but I feel I have far more control over the level of risk than I do when on 2 wheels. Seems every wreck I work is 90% cages' fault and 10% bikes fault. (The 10% being just that he was actually on the road :dry: ) I've never ridden above my abiilities, and I do wear proper gear every time. On one hand if I were to give up riding it would be a crime. I live an hour from Deals Gap, and still havent been there! Some of the greatest riding roads out there are in my back yard. While im on the bike, I almost never think of the risks. I just enjoy what im doing. When I get home, I have that "boy that was stupid" thought, or the "that was a close call" image, which gets me thinking all over again. I think i'll do what most people are suggesting, and just ground the bike for however long it takes me to regain my senses. I just hope I dont work another bike wreck in the interim :biggrin: Thanks again guys!
I got "scared" after 10 years of riding and sold out. 4 years later, I was back and it has been about another 10 years since then. I get the funny feeling every now and then but just park it for a while and it usually doesn't last more than a month and I fire it back up. I have never felt "funny" during the good riding months. It always comes along about this time of year when I haven't been on it much anyway due to bad weather, shorter days, and I think just a case of the winter blahs.
When I do ride, I have toned it down considerably. One more "funny" issue....I had never had a ticket on a motorcycle or even a warning - ever. Not until this past summer when I made a conscious effort to back off of the crazy stuff. TWO tickets in a six week period. :mad:
Park it for a while and then decide. After that, go for a ride!
[image: View Post]SAFE-T, on Mar 1 2009, 02:36 AM, said:
* Most people who crash have no training
* Most people who crash were overriding their abilities
* Most people who crash are not wearing good riding gear
You can further whittle down the likelihood of a crash in that:
-Many people who crash do not have a motorcycle license.
-Alcohol consumption by the rider was a contributing factor in many crashes. IIRC the Hurt Report said 40%.
So if you have a m/c license and you don't drink and ride, you're already substantially reducing the odds of crashing. As I said before that doesn't mean a cager won't take you out, but you're still reducing that risk. :fing02:
[image: View Post]kb2wji, on Mar 1 2009, 10:21 AM, said:
I live an hour from Deals Gap, and still havent been there!
OK, now I'm going to have to virtually smack you upside the head. :angry: :angry:
Dude, I have to ride 2 hours south to get to any decent twisties, and I do that several times per year. Also, I rode 600 miles to TMac last year (and 600 back again) and rode The Dragon and the Cherohola Skyway the next day. You live an hour from one of the best motorcycling roads ever constructed and you've never ridden it?! Before you decide to take a break or give up riding you have to ride Deal's Gap.
[image: View Post]TimC, on Mar 1 2009, 01:01 PM, said:
[image: View Post]SAFE-T, on Mar 1 2009, 02:36 AM, said:
* Most people who crash have no training
* Most people who crash were overriding their abilities
* Most people who crash are not wearing good riding gear
You can further whittle down the likelihood of a crash in that:
-Many people who crash do not have a motorcycle license.
-Alcohol consumption by the rider was a contributing factor in many crashes. IIRC the Hurt Report said 40%.
So if you have a m/c license and you don't drink and ride, you're already substantially reducing the odds of crashing. As I said before that doesn't mean a cager won't take you out, but you're still reducing that risk. :fing02:
[image: View Post]kb2wji, on Mar 1 2009, 10:21 AM, said:
I live an hour from Deals Gap, and still havent been there!
OK, now I'm going to have to virtually smack you upside the head. :angry: :angry:
Dude, I have to ride 2 hours south to get to any decent twisties, and I do that several times per year. Also, I rode 600 miles to TMac last year (and 600 back again) and rode The Dragon and the Cherohola Skyway the next day. You live an hour from one of the best motorcycling roads ever constructed and you've never ridden it?! Before you decide to take a break or give up riding you have to ride Deal's Gap.
Smack in the head taken :laugh: I moved from NY down to TN last september and have been working crazy hours which hasnt given me any time off. Next time I have a couple days off and the weather nice I plan on hitting the Gap and Cherohola. I wouldnt get rid of the bike before that of course :cool:
My advice is not only to ride but to ride more! What? Yes the exact opposite of other member's thoughts. I would get in the saddle as much as possible. I would go to TMAC and try and ride as much as you can. Then pick a couple of weeks and stop cold turkey; and remember that feeling you will have during those couple of weeks. Why? Because you will have that same feeling for a long time if you sell your bike.
In the end, you have to make the decision for you and your family. I have a beautiful family and I couldn't imagine not being here for my little angel. My solution? I always ride 'overkill' with gear, or call it AGATT. It's simply risk management.
I had a crash when I was 18 on my ZX-7R (which I really, really miss). I was only wearing a helmet...DUMB! My back has never been the same. So I immediately sold my bike and stopped riding for years. I missed it more and more everyday. I realized that riding was in my blood and I haven't looked back. Yes, I was terrified when I first got back into the saddle but some excellent training and riding with some excellent riders helped me tremendously. And I realized that my crash was no one's fault but my own. So that's my 2 & 1/2 cents, good luck no matter what you choose. I know my wife would rejoice if I EVER sold my bike----which I hope never happens.
[image: View Post]kb2wji, on Feb 28 2009, 12:42 PM, said:
I've been doing alot of thinking lately, mainly about safety. I've seen one too many motorcycle wrecks, and its got me thinking. As much as I love riding, I have to weigh the potential risk. Can I live with the worst case scenario? I'm starting to think not. I ride with full gear every time I go out, but there are still too many unavoidable risks. Any thoughts or input from anyone that may put more positive thoughts in my mind?
Trust your judgment. There is nothing wrong with choosing to no longer ride. Most of us who have ridden for years have grappled with the same question as a result of an accident or the loss of a friend. How we each answer that question is personal and 100% correct for each of us.
Every time I have faced that decision over the years I have chosen to keep riding, but, that is just me.
One thing I learned a long time ago, I never talk anyone into riding or talk anyone out of giving up the sport.
[image: View Post]ericlw, on Feb 28 2009, 06:00 PM, said:
personally if its all about "risk". well you take risks everyday. you could suffocate sleeping in bed. you could slip and fall taking a shower. get hit by a car going to work..... etc.
so to me motorcycling is just another risk.yea its taking a bigger one but really nothing is "safe".
I think you all have valid points. Our Thread starter is speaking about what we all often think about. Each one of us has a separate and distinct story. I stopped for a year after my accident. I couldn't stay away though. I chose a new bike that has a reputation for good design and safety (I have ABS too) and I approach each ride with a large measure of thought and deliberation. Before I bought the VFR I spent weeks looking at every horrible bike accident picture I could find. I looked at torn bikes and bodies. Horrible stuff. I wanted to be sure I was ok with the possibility. I don't want to die. But I will die sometime. I don't want to die on my motorcycle or bicycle. But I don't want to die choking on a pretzel either. And most of all, I don't want to die unfulfilled. Many things in life fulfill me...motorcycling is one of them.
Whatever you do...LIVE your life the way you think is right.
Good Karma!
[image: View Post]kb2wji, on Feb 28 2009, 11:42 AM, said:
I've been doing alot of thinking lately, mainly about safety. I've seen one too many motorcycle wrecks, and its got me thinking. As much as I love riding, I have to weigh the potential risk. Can I live with the worst case scenario? I'm starting to think not. I ride with full gear every time I go out, but there are still too many unavoidable risks. Any thoughts or input from anyone that may put more positive thoughts in my mind?
If I do decide to sell the VFR, what might a fair asking price be? It's a white '06 with about 13,000 miles. It's has a couple scuffs (very small) on both sides of the upper fairing but otherwise it looks new. Helibars, Laser Deeptone exhaust, Givi V35 saddlebags and a Corbin seat (I may take the accessory stuff off and sell seperately but still unsure) All maintenance is up to date and documented. Tires are 50%.
Thanks everyone...maybe im just having a moment of weakness? :blink:
Enjoyed riding with You Andrew, and You definetly have good bike handling skills. I know what You are wrestling with.....it's a tough decision. Most Everyone faces this several times in Their lifetime if They ride very long. Take a break from the bike for a good long while before You sell it, and then find out You miss it. Sometimes just slowing down and doing scenic pace rides will do it for Ya'.........Come over anytime Ya' wanna' just do some "Laid Back, Smell The Roses Riding", You know where to find me/us........Check out the next Beas Ride.....See Ya', David/skuuter........... :fing02: :beer:
Thats a personal choice one can only make for himself. I too have thought about it more then a few times. I think the older one gets the more you look at that kind of risk. For me I doubt I ll ever quit. I know an accident can happen anywhere but Ive changed where I ride and times I ride not becuase of me but becuase I dont trust other people. I ride rural roads with little traffic now and not during peak cummute hours, never at night. Extra careful at intersections and such, always weary of other drivers etc. I think this takes alot of the risk out but of course its not full proof.
We had a local rider here pass away a few months back. This fellow had owned more new bikes than I have had hot dinners, the likes of some of them were MV augusta F4, Honda RC30, Blackbirds, ST1300s, ST1100s, Honda VTR1000s, and that was just in the last 5 years that I knew him personally.
He started riding bikes when he was 16, and as far as I know he had no breaks of any cosequence.
He had 68 years of motorcycling.
He died at age 84
He died suddenly weeding the garden in the afternoon after enjoying his morning ride on his VTR1000.
If you are ever considering quiting due to new found fear, it's time to quit. You have plenty of input already on the pleasures of riding compared to risk.
Here is a little qoute I use in my MSF courses. "Motorcycles are very good primary defense vehicles and very poor secondary defense vehicles, SUV's are the opposite." Here is what I mean
Motorcycle as a primary defense vehicle
1. better visibility
2. better maneuverability
3. less distractions (radio, cell phone, food, passengers)
4. generally a motorcycle rider is paying better attention to their surroundings
Motorcycle as a secondary defense vehicle
1. very poor crash protection if primary defense fails
Each person must decide how much risk they are willing to accept. I ride ATGATT. I don't want to widow my wife, but I know that it's in god's hands when I go, but I am going to do the best I can to influence his decision to be later rather than sooner. Good luck with your desicion, I am with the put your bike away rather than sell it crowd and drive the cage, but I drive a Miata when I am not on the bike, which is basically a motorcycle with four wheels when it comes to crash protection.
I have been driving cars for a long long time and due to my line of work, I've seen some horrific accidents throughout my career. Car vs ped, car vs motorcycle, car vs car, car vs truck, car vs train car vs building, wall etc. Should I stop driving. I agree with Monk in saying that It's better to die doing something that you enjoy than to wither away in fear of everything. What is your definition of living? Like many people have said before, it's not about the definition, it's about the journey. Keep the bike and when you pick yourself up again it will be there. Good luck on your decision. :beer:
This is probably gonna be long-winded, and to get to the jest of what I am saying, you could probably skip to the end, but here it goes.... I am gonna tell you about my ride in today. 9 times out of 10 when I ride to work, I drive my daughter to school and then go back for my bike. I checked the weather when I got up and saw that it was over 40 degrees and decided it I was riding. I was literally tingling with excitment about my commute! I almost cried when my red baby tried not to start (need a new battery). I can't imagine the bad mood I would be in if I couldn't ride my bike today. But she coughed and started up and I started my ritual of ATGATTing... Layer one, layer two, layer three, back protector, jacket, gloves and ear plugs. Damn, forgot my shades. Turn the bike off, go in the house, come back out. Damn, what if she won't start!? But she does.... And I'm off. A mile into my commute, doing a left hand turn, get cut off by a lady on her cell phone as she decides she wants my lane. No problem, little brake, shake of the head, bop my head to the music in my ears. Sun is out, it's going to be a beautiful day! Later, as I am getting on the highway, I am behind grandma blue hair as I hit the on-ramp. 30 miles an hour as I enter the highway. But a look behind me, a flick of the wrist and I am in the fast lane doing 90. Oops! :491: A little engine braking gets me down to the flow of traffic and I enjoy my less than five minutes of spirited highway riding before I get to a five mile back-up into town. By the time that's over, I am up over the river bridge, and I see a motorcycle ahead of me. I spend a few minutes weaving (safely) through the crowds of cars just so that I can catch up and wave to this other intrepid soul just as I am taking my exit.
So, here's my point. I LOVE to ride. I can tell you the make and model of the three cars that cut me off today or slipped into my lane because they didn't see me. When I hit 90 on the highway, just for that brief second, I felt so damned alive! I actually let out a laugh and cry. It was just incredible! I quit riding for almost eight years. For seven of those years I was upset about it. I have a lot to lose should something happen, a beautiful seven year old daughter, a baby on the way, but I will never again (knocks on wood), by choice be without a motorcycle. My bike is the most fun that I have ever had and at the same time it is my therapy and keeps me sane and makes me feel alive. It is certainly the danger we put ourselves in every day just by riding that adds to all of this, but it's what I choose to do.
If you can't relate at least to a few of the things I said, then maybe riding isn't for you anymore, but if just a little of what I said strikes a cord, then don't give it up! Park it for a while, but don't let it go! Good luck with your decision.
Consider taking the Experienced Rider Course at Chatt State. The first one this year is April 11.
I had a good scare about 12 years ago, and this course allowed me to take control again... and I've been teaching it now for 9 years, and you will have a lot of fun, and take much away from it.
[image: View Post]WERA910, on Mar 5 2009, 09:49 AM, said:
Consider taking the Experienced Rider Course at Chatt State. The first one this year is April 11.
I had a good scare about 12 years ago, and this course allowed me to take control again... and I've been teaching it now for 9 years, and you will have a lot of fun, and take much away from it.
Michael
I'll probably do that. I know I wont be selling my bike for a little while. Just in case I start getting back into it more, plus...the way the economy is i'm lucky to get a few grand for it :dry: I appreciate all the posts. I'm leaning towards hanging onto the bike this year and just seeing how it feels. I defenitely cant make a move till I hit Deals Gap and the Cherahola :biggrin:
On a side note, the scooter vs. car wreck that started this has an update... The woman on the scooter was well known around these parts. She wore pink, including a pink helmet, and rode a Pink scooter. Everyone knew who she was, even if they didnt know her personally. The night after the wreck, she had her leg amputated. The next morning she died. Driver of the cage doesnt even have insurance. Sometimes life doesnt make much sense. My prayers are with her and her family.
[image: View Post]kb2wji, on Mar 5 2009, 11:19 AM, said:
[image: View Post]WERA910, on Mar 5 2009, 09:49 AM, said:
Consider taking the Experienced Rider Course at Chatt State. The first one this year is April 11.
I had a good scare about 12 years ago, and this course allowed me to take control again... and I've been teaching it now for 9 years, and you will have a lot of fun, and take much away from it.
Michael
I'll probably do that. I know I wont be selling my bike for a little while. Just in case I start getting back into it more, plus...the way the economy is i'm lucky to get a few grand for it :dry: I appreciate all the posts. I'm leaning towards hanging onto the bike this year and just seeing how it feels. I defenitely cant make a move till I hit Deals Gap and the Cherahola :biggrin:
On a side note, the scooter vs. car wreck that started this has an update... The woman on the scooter was well known around these parts. She wore pink, including a pink helmet, and rode a Pink scooter. Everyone knew who she was, even if they didnt know her personally. The night after the wreck, she had her leg amputated. The next morning she died. Driver of the cage doesnt even have insurance. Sometimes life doesnt make much sense. My prayers are with her and her family.
OOooooh, SORRY......I always hate these stories.......... :(
My main reply is back a page or two but after reading the latest replies it occurred to me how ironic it is that one rarely hears of anyone carefully weighing (and discussing them in Forums) the pros and cons of other issues that can lead directly to death like smoking, drinking, unprotected sex, eating poorly, not exercising, playing aggressive sports, working around dangerous chemicals/pollutants, etc. These things have (IMHO) SO much more bearing on how we live and how and when we die.
I see it as very ironic that we motorcyclists (that are so often seen as reckless hooligans who have no introspection about what we do) are some of the few to have open discussions about this topic. We risk being labeled as pansies or wusses by honestly confronting our fears...yet we are secure in our choice to ride. No one is putting anyone down here.
Thanks for all of the great responses...now back away from the geasy fast-food restaurant table, set down that cigarette, stop leering at that floosie (or at least put on a condom) and get on your bike and ride!
