I'm very sorry to do this and start another thread so soon, especially of this capacity but can I have some real honest answers here please...
Before I decide to part/ex my VFR for a Blackbird I need to know one very important thing....
On a ride-out, how many times can you honestly and truthfully say do you feel the vtec 'kick', and when I mean 'kick' it feels like the bike hesitates, like a 'bump' or misfire...?
[image: View Post]vfr_steve, on Mar 8 2009, 03:48 PM, said:
On a ride-out, how many times can you honestly and truthfully say do you feel the vtec 'kick', and when I mean 'kick' it feels like the bike hesitates, like a 'bump' or misfire...?
I can't say that I would describe any transitions as hesitation or misfire. I put together a video of several VTEC transitions, maybe that will help you out.
[image: View Post]VFOr, on Mar 9 2009, 12:06 AM, said:
[image: View Post]vfr_steve, on Mar 8 2009, 03:48 PM, said:
On a ride-out, how many times can you honestly and truthfully say do you feel the vtec 'kick', and when I mean 'kick' it feels like the bike hesitates, like a 'bump' or misfire...?
I can't say that I would describe any transitions as hesitation or misfire. I put together a video of several VTEC transitions, maybe that will help you out.
I know you ride all the time in lots of different weather Steve, any chance you might need a tune up? I really don't have problems with mine at all. Maybe one out of every 75-100 transitions is rough? Tough to put a number on it really.
[image: View Post]vfr_steve, on Mar 8 2009, 04:15 PM, said:
[image: View Post]VFOr, on Mar 9 2009, 12:06 AM, said:
[image: View Post]vfr_steve, on Mar 8 2009, 03:48 PM, said:
On a ride-out, how many times can you honestly and truthfully say do you feel the vtec 'kick', and when I mean 'kick' it feels like the bike hesitates, like a 'bump' or misfire...?
I can't say that I would describe any transitions as hesitation or misfire. I put together a video of several VTEC transitions, maybe that will help you out.
Nice video and it seems very smooth on yours, mine has been THAT bad, recently to have made the front dive momentarily when it kicked in!!!! :blink:
Well it sucks that it's so bad you're thinking of trading bikes. Has it always been that way or something that's started more recently?
Weeeelll... My first VFR, with 0-4750 miles (when i stuffed it) pretty much ALWAYS had a harsh VTEC engagement. I could always feel it, no matter how soft or how hard i was on the trottle when i it hit. At WOT in first and second gear it'd pull up the front wheel on a good day. My second VFR on the other hand (owned from 5300 miles to 19200 miles, at which time it was sold) nearly always had a smooth engagement. At small throttle openings (around 1/4 throttle) it would hesitate and bump when it hit, and sometimes the first time i hit VTEC for the day would be a bit rough but other than that, it was pretty good. By the time i was at 10k+ miles, it had gotten very smooth. I had a PCIII, but i didn't need it really for the VTEC transition as much as i did for the steady throttle hesitation or stutter around 4-7k rpms. The PCIII didn't cure that and that is one main reason why i got rid of the bike.
''Has it always been that way or something that's started more recently?
It's been doing it more recently during the colder winter months, but you never know when it's going to hit hard or not, and I can't be dealing with the 'what ifs' when I ought to be concentrating on the road. I think I may have a t-stac issue (other thread below) but even when the engine temp is at 70c it can do it and very harsh at times.
[image: View Post]SEBSPEED, on Mar 9 2009, 12:22 AM, said:
I know you ride all the time in lots of different weather Steve, any chance you might need a tune up? I really don't have problems with mine at all. Maybe one out of every 75-100 transitions is rough? Tough to put a number on it really.
Hi Seb, yes you're right I do use it everyday including weekends, particulary in all weathers. Are you thinking I should go down the Power Commander route?
Thanks for the responses as always, it's driving me nuts and I have to promise myself if I do get rid of this bike I'll never own another vtec again, I've gone though far too many too quickly already!
[image: View Post]vfr_steve, on Mar 8 2009, 08:49 PM, said:
[image: View Post]SEBSPEED, on Mar 9 2009, 12:22 AM, said:
I know you ride all the time in lots of different weather Steve, any chance you might need a tune up? I really don't have problems with mine at all. Maybe one out of every 75-100 transitions is rough? Tough to put a number on it really.
Hi Seb, yes you're right I do use it everyday including weekends, particulary in all weathers. Are you thinking I should go down the Power Commander route?
Thanks for the responses as always, it's driving me nuts and I have to promise myself if I do get rid of this bike I'll never own another vtec again, I've gone though far too many too quickly already!
I'm thinking more that the hesitation you describe can become more apparent at smaller throttle openings or when slowly accelerating through the engagment, which is what you spend a lot of time with in inclement weather.
Maybe not riding your VFR in the snow is a better solution! :goofy:
Seriously though, I meant that first part and yes, I did find a very nice improvement by adding a PC3 + Cozye's map.
[image: View Post]SEBSPEED, on Mar 9 2009, 12:54 AM, said:
[image: View Post]vfr_steve, on Mar 8 2009, 08:49 PM, said:
[image: View Post]SEBSPEED, on Mar 9 2009, 12:22 AM, said:
I know you ride all the time in lots of different weather Steve, any chance you might need a tune up? I really don't have problems with mine at all. Maybe one out of every 75-100 transitions is rough? Tough to put a number on it really.
Hi Seb, yes you're right I do use it everyday including weekends, particulary in all weathers. Are you thinking I should go down the Power Commander route?
Thanks for the responses as always, it's driving me nuts and I have to promise myself if I do get rid of this bike I'll never own another vtec again, I've gone though far too many too quickly already!
I'm thinking more that the hesitation you describe can become more apparent at smaller throttle openings or when slowly accelerating through the engagment, which is what you spend a lot of time with in inclement weather.
Maybe not riding your VFR in the snow is a better solution! :goofy:
Seriously though, I meant that first part and yes, I did find a very nice improvement by adding a PC3 + Cozye's map.
I wish I could just tuck the VFR away and not ride in the snow at all and in fact I've already made a promise to myself next winter to get a tatty old winter hack or even a 'plaggy pig' :laugh:
The hesitation happens in both situations but not all of the time which makes it is so frustrating.. If the 'misfire happened all the time I would of got rid of the bike a long time ago. In small throttle openings, say going round a bend creeping up to 6800rpm, sometimes the bike will just bog down in the transition, other times when I power through it, I'll get a nasty lurch and it's been that harsh to send me slightly forward and the front forks to dive!!! This has happened to 2 other vtec's I've owned. I just wonder how some of you really sling them about without worrying about it... like I say the bike has been great, touring through Wales in the Summer without a hitch, but it's worse now than it ever was. I just wish there was a way of eliminating the issue for good, if it doesn't do it sometimes, there must be a reason why it hits hard sometimes and not others.
I only get a rough transition when the motor is still warming up. After that the transitions are very smooth. My personal opinion is that the transition to the VTEC is quite a rush.
Mine can definatly be harsh at times (maybe 1 out of every 15-20 times), and mine is an 06 which they supposedly upgraded so its not supposed to be so harsh in the vtec transition. Usually when it is harsh though, it is at smaller throttle openings, but when it does it, it sounds like what you are decribing, kind of like a backfire or miss. It can also be extremely smooth sometimes too, kind of like what you other guys mentioned. All you notice is a different engine note. That happens maybe 5 out of those same 15 times. The other 9 times, its somewhere inbetween. Not as smooth as I know it can be, but also not as bad as I know it can be too. It does seem that it is getting better as time goes on. It may just be that I didn't use the v-tec much in the first 10,000 miles (I did make it 13,000 miles on the orig tires :blush: ) so maybe its just getting "broken in". Its my first bike though, and I'm just taking my time learning it and not over riding my abilities. Probably used the vtec more in the last 3k miles than in the first 10k miles......
Mine seems to be hard to a point too. The easiest way to describe it, it a turbo with a major delay hahaha Once I hit about 6500 RPM and it engages, it will slide me down the seat, and forward when it disengages. It scared the s**t out of me at first, but I got used to it real quick hahaha
I only notice mine when the bike is still too cold and I don't get that boost at 6800 RPM. I don't often ride up there, but sometimes leaving work I am so excited i run it 3-4 gears WOT before it has heated up.
Mine has been doing THAT occasionally. Maybe once or twice per ride, but I couldn't really pinpoint any rhime or reason of it. Sometimes it is totally smooth and sometimes it isn't :blink:
I've had a particularly bad spell of ransitions while I was at t-mac. Just as I needed to be smooth the most - figures.
Once it was bad enough to break traction of the rear wheel for a split second. If I was leaned over at that moment, I prolly woulda gone down. Having said that, mine were generally not as bad as yours. They are fine for the most part and I've even grown accustomed to them by now. Actually missed the rush while riding another bike recently.
In trying to identify a cause I have paid close attention to my own experience as well as that of others. Riding conditions like temperature, humidity, octane and quality of gas, riding habbits, etc...
The only thing I was able to notice was humidity. I did notice that transitions are worse in high humidity.
You being in the UK may have humidity issues as well.
I am not sure if any of this helps you. Probably doesn't, since I have no clue how to remedy this.
In a recent conversation I had with a writer for Cycle Canada - Neil Graham - he asked me about the VTEC transition on the VFR and how it really felt... I've offered him a test ride on my bike - so that he could feel first hand how LITTLE of a transition that my bike has.
I have the PC III and Cozyes map, along with the requisite O2 eliminators - and I swear that you'd have to have a computer connected to my bike to have it detect the transition. It is THAT smooth. Right now I'm running the stock exhaust.
I will add though - that when the bike has JUST hit the minimum (I think it's 70 degrees Celcius) for VTEC engagement - it is admittedly more noticeable. Once fully warmed up - no worries, period.
[image: View Post]Kanadian Ken, on Mar 8 2009, 07:44 PM, said:
I will add though - that when the bike has JUST hit the minimum (I think it's 70 degrees Celcius) for VTEC engagement - it is admittedly more noticeable.
I had an instance this winter where the bike came to temp (152 ?) while I was well above the engagement point.
I am sure that VTEC engaged when the temp criteria was met and it was a VERY hard engagement. I was at around 9,000 RPM at the time.
I think Honda should have programmed VTEC to only engage as RPMs pass through the engagement point, not at any point all the criteria are met.
Normally, VTEC engagement is a non-issue for me.
I have never been patient enough to allow an engine to warm properly. I put the key in, start it, put on my gloves, click into gear and drive away.
Try a new air filter. I changed mine and the bog just before vtec went away. Can't say it ever hit hard, I did however notice a bog just before engagement. Sounds like what you described. New air filter and smooth running. If it is the Air filter you will really notice the bog in 6th gear last almost a full second.
I have never had any problems with my 2004 VFR and it's VTEC transition. It's always been much less of a problem than others make it out to be. (Your mileage may vary)
Just took a solo ride out to Idyllwild, CA today. 250 miles riding, all VTEC engagements were silky smooth. I haven't had much hesitation come from VTEC, but there have been been a handful in the last 5k miles of ownership (bike is now at 11k) where it would bog a tad at 6800 RPM. I think right now the biggest dislike I'm having is a little bit of stumble when I cruise through town at 4-4.5k RPM, which I'm sure can be remedied through O2 eliminators.
My 02 is silk smooth through the transition. I have no hesitation to hit 6800 rpm leaned over in a curve. Like others my bike smoothed more with age, particularly when I did the first valve adjustment. The only time when mine was unbearable was when riding in cold weather with a stuck thermostat. Get that thermostat fixed before you get rid of a great bike.
Being a webmaster of vfrd I often get invites to switch bikes and have ridden a number of vtecs, usually I am pleased with the bike. Only once did the vtec transition give me fits - ridding my buddy Reddogs bike up Pagosa Pass I kept going in and out of vtec while leaned over and it unnerved me a bit. His bike was actually powering down for a split moment in the transition so it seemed like it was going to fall over. I had to learn to manage the revs a bit better to keep it up into the 7k and above range while riding up the mountain. Other bikes were not so dramatic I think he just needed fresh oil, cause it operates on oil pressure.
The only troubles I have with the 'transition' is when going slowly through the vtec kick in rpm and the few
times that I forgot to let er warm up running up at about half throttle. Then it's quite abrupt kind of like
"gasp!! you want me to do what??"
Once warm, big throttle through vtec is just like a turbo kicking in, no hesitation well maybe a little one.
Corners are ok even though my idea of spirited riding would likely put most of you to sleep.
Really think about your riding style. I owned my Blackbird and my 2002 VTEC at the same time and the VFR was way more of a daily rider. The Blackbird was only happy going at or near triple number speeds.
The only time when mine was unbearable was when riding in cold weather with a stuck thermostat. Get that thermostat fixed before you get rid of a great bike
Was this really the case for you? I need to pin-point if it really is this that's causing the issue pretty much today as the dealer will be ringing me in say... 3 hours or so...
Can I just clarify that when the temp is at 0-4C and below - IF your cruising at say 70-80mph in 5th gear, SHOULD the Engine temp indicate 69-73C or more?
Thanks guys
EDIT>> JUST RANG HONDA!! Guess what they said? Oh yea that's about normal :blink: :excl: :huh: :dry:
[image: View Post]vfr_steve, on Mar 9 2009, 08:12 PM, said:
The only time when mine was unbearable was when riding in cold weather with a stuck thermostat. Get that thermostat fixed before you get rid of a great bike
Was this really the case for you? I need to pin-point if it really is this that's causing the issue pretty much today as the dealer will be ringing me in say... 3 hours or so...
Can I just clarify that when the temp is at 0-4C and below - IF your cruising at say 70-80mph in 5th gear, SHOULD the Engine temp indicate 69-73C or more?
Thanks guys
EDIT>> JUST RANG HONDA!! Guess what they said? Oh yea that's about normal :blink: :excl: :huh: :dry:
It would have to be to do with the oil viscosity, since the vtec is actuated by oil pressure.
Honda recommends 10W30 oil now, if you guys are running 20W50 in very cold conditions it could have a lot to do with it.
I wouldnt run 10w30 in OUR climate but there may be a case for it if the temperature is only 4degC
Just my 2C worth
Just went for a ride, 8C with a very cold wind chill, I rode off when the temp reached 50C, it then took a while to creep up to 62C then I slowed for a 30mph limit and the temp shot up to 70-75 - this time not one bad transition, all very very smooth and believe me I tried to 'force' it this time.
Damn this thing, why can't it be like that all the time.
[image: View Post]SEBSPEED, on Mar 9 2009, 07:37 AM, said:
Why can't you be nicer to it and warm it up more often? :biggrin:
:+1:
I daily drive as well in all conditions but I always let the bike fully warm up before pushing it into VTEC. As it has been said, it's oil pressure activated and if your oil isn't warmed up enough to do the job it's going to hurt. I learned this with all the riding I did. I don't shoot for the VTEC unless the engine is above 160 F. Be nice to your VFR and she will be nice to you. ;)
When I first got mine, it had a noticeable stumble before the kick-in and I was annoyed by it. But others here said that it would smooth out over time and that's exactly what happened. Now I mainly just notice the change in the intake snarl as the transition occurs. Would I prefer not to have VTEC? From a purely performance and simplicity point of view, sure. It practice: it doesn't matter. When I'm tooling around town below VTEC, it's fine and if it helps make the bike pollute less, great. When I'm mixing it up with 848s and 600s in the mountains, I'm already rev'd up past the transition anyway, so it makes no difference.
I would guess that normal, thermostat working operation is this: fire up the bike, let it idle. In go the ear plugs, on goes the helmet, zip up the jacket, pull on the gloves, bike is at about 100 degrees. Pull out of my drive, slow mile out of the neighborhood. Another mile or so and it's at or above 150 and ready to go!
I only notice the VTEC engagement when the bike is somewhat "cold" and within the first few minutes of riding. I do not go above 6000 rpms until after the water temp is above 150. If I follow that, no problems and my engagement is very smooth 99 out of 100 times... That one time is usually just a more violent kick and it's never been a lag for me. Of course, YMMV....
Ok some good info and advice here guys thank you. My bike, when it's cold out takes about say, 3-5 minutes to get to 65-70C is that about normal?
Unfortunately it then goes down again once I'm in cruise when the outside temp is 1 or 2 and below - according to Honda that's Normal. If I do keep her I hope a good service and new liquids may help somewhat.
[image: View Post]vfr_steve, on Mar 9 2009, 09:46 AM, said:
Ok some good info and advice here guys thank you. My bike, when it's cold out takes about say, 3-5 minutes to get to 65-70C is that about normal?
Unfortunately it then goes down again once I'm in cruise when the outside temp is 1 or 2 and below - according to Honda that's Normal. If I do keep her I hope a good service and new liquids may help somewhat.
It can take as much as 10 minutes for my bike to fully warm up when it's cold out at lower speeds and I never leave my driveway until I have about 100F on the temp gage. When I am cruising the temperature will drop from 170 F to about 160 F in colder weather but it is still within normal operational temperatures and doesn't affect my VTEC transition as far as I can tell.
[image: View Post]vfr_steve, on Mar 9 2009, 10:46 AM, said:
Ok some good info and advice here guys thank you. My bike, when it's cold out takes about say, 3-5 minutes to get to 65-70C is that about normal?
Unfortunately it then goes down again once I'm in cruise when the outside temp is 1 or 2 and below - according to Honda that's Normal. If I do keep her I hope a good service and new liquids may help somewhat.
I'd say that 3 to five minutes is perfectly normal. And so is it dropping down again at speed, however it shouldn't drop back much below 150F or 65C. But I could be wrong. I see 150s when its 30 or so, but that's about as low as I have been out. If you are below 0C, it might go that low. I don't think you have any problems. How's your gas mileage? Any change there? If it's not heating up correctly, it will run rich, burn more gas.
Hi Jovinski, Vanion2... that's good to hear, my fuel consumption hasn't changed actually, in fact, this tank of petrol I've had 80miles with 4 bars still remaining? So I guess everything is working as it should?
I'm booking her in for a service I think, Maybe fresh oil, coolant etc will help matters..
Went for a ride after work, waited until the temp reached 50C and by the time I had got down the road my temp reached 66C and climbed to 75.. there it stayed dropping to around 71-72 whilst cruising with the temp at 5C (sorry can't do F) :rolleyes: .. and err, nice ride I admit, engine butter smooth and no vtec surges, COMPLETELY different to how it behaved just days ago though :excl:
After riding the bike for a few weeks you will be able to anticipate the transition. It really isn't a big deal. I think the advantage of having a quiet and smooth and more efficient bike during calmer riding outweighs the one minor downside.
[image: View Post]VFOr, on Mar 9 2009, 01:06 PM, said:
I can't say that I would describe any transitions as hesitation or misfire. I put together a video of several VTEC transitions, maybe that will help you out.
http://www.vimeo.com/2738725
I know you said I couldn't comment in here, so I'm not going to make any comments about what I think of Vtec. :blush:
I found it interesting in the early part of your video when the camera was mounted on the side of the bike, the front of the bike seemed to rise at the point the engine note changed (indicating the Vtec transition).
[image: View Post]afennell, on Mar 9 2009, 07:27 PM, said:
After riding the bike for a few weeks you will be able to anticipate the transition. It really isn't a big deal. I think the advantage of having a quiet and smooth and more efficient bike during calmer riding outweighs the one minor downside.
I've had the bike 10 months, and had 2 other vtecs since putting over 25,000 on them ;)
Also had two 5th gens, great bikes - but not a 6th gen :wheel:
.. funny really, one of the very things I couldn't stand the most was in fact the gear driven cams, whining all day gave me fatigue!!! Buy hey, we are all different.
I'm keeping my VFR anyway, you guys have probably saved me making a huge mistake (again) Thankyou
[image: View Post]vfr_steve, on Mar 9 2009, 03:07 PM, said:
[image: View Post]afennell, on Mar 9 2009, 07:27 PM, said:
After riding the bike for a few weeks you will be able to anticipate the transition. It really isn't a big deal. I think the advantage of having a quiet and smooth and more efficient bike during calmer riding outweighs the one minor downside.
I've had the bike 10 months, and had 2 other vtecs since putting over 25,000 on them ;)
Also had two 5th gens, great bikes - but not a 6th gen :wheel:
.. funny really, one of the very things I couldn't stand the most was in fact the gear driven cams, whining all day gave me fatigue!!! Buy hey, we are all different.
I'm keeping my VFR anyway, you guys have probably saved me making a huge mistake (again) Thankyou
Enjoy all those exciting VTEC rushes!
Glad to hear it. :fing02:
[image: View Post]vfr_steve, on Mar 10 2009, 06:37 AM, said:
Also had two 5th gens, great bikes - but not a 6th gen :wheel:
.. funny really, one of the very things I couldn't stand the most was in fact the gear driven cams, whining all day gave me fatigue!!! Buy hey, we are all different.
Enjoy all those exciting VTEC rushes!
Me too.
When I had my 5th gen, the gear whine drove me nuts.
I'm told it gets less after about 100,000KMs
I should have experimented with different oils.
The transition to VTEC on my '06 is a smooth as glass. I have read a lot of articles on the VFR that described the VTEC of earlier generations as a surge or kick at inopportune times such as exiting corners but in the '06, at least in my experience, no problemo. Like others have stated here I love my VFR VTEC! :wub:
I got a big hit only once so far (5000km). I was purposely messing around at the transition point (In and Out, In and Out) then BANG got a real kick in the arse. That was the only time it's ever happened. I'm running 10-30 as per the CDN manual but am going to change it this year just for kicks. I always wait for it to warm before I go into VTEC. My transitions are quite smooth except for that one BANG.
I love the sound of the bike as it goes into vtec and watching the tach climb. My bike (o7 rwb bought new last September) now has 4000 miles on it. I find the vtec engagement more pronounced in lower gears under hard throttle. Not to hijack this thread, but does anyone else here thrash on their bike like I do? I do wait for warm up-about 3-5 miles, but then I'm in and out of vtec quite a bit on my daily commute-lots of back roads. I have never felt anything but welcoming, open arms for the vtec engagement, although I do not crank myself over in turn and try to engage it-save it for the blasting out of the curve :happy: .
although I do not crank myself over in turn and try to engage it-save it for the blasting out of the curve
That's generally how I ride and this works very well I think, funny how in 06 Honda claimed the VTEC is smoother yet it doesn't seem to be much different apart from the changeover is at 6600 and it doesn't stop working till 6400? Personally I'd rather have it higher and out of the way. When I test rode an 06 a while back the 1st transition felt rough.. that's all I needed to know.
Riding to work today, my water temp (as I now know it) crept back to 70c when on a nice straight with no traffic and I think if I hadn't encountered a roundabout it would of gone back a bit further, outside temp: 4-5C, drizzle.
I want to give her a nice service next month, the T-Stat thing can wait a while longer to see if it gets any worse, and surely we are due for warmer weather any day or week now!! (in the UK that is)
[image: View Post]vfr_steve, on Mar 10 2009, 08:19 PM, said:
although I do not crank myself over in turn and try to engage it-save it for the blasting out of the curve
That's generally how I ride and this works very well I think, funny how in 06 Honda claimed the VTEC is smoother yet it doesn't seem to be much different apart from the changeover is at 6600 and it doesn't stop working till 6400? Personally I'd rather have it higher and out of the way. When I test rode an 06 a while back the 1st transition felt rough.. that's all I needed to know.
Riding to work today, my water temp (as I now know it) crept back to 70c when on a nice straight with no traffic and I think if I hadn't encountered a roundabout it would of gone back a bit further, outside temp: 4-5C, drizzle.
I want to give her a nice service next month, the T-Stat thing can wait a while longer to see if it gets any worse, and surely we are due for warmer weather any day or week now!! (in the UK that is)
Why dont you put a piece of cardboard on the inside of the LHS radiator if its that cold. 70c is too low IMO
[image: View Post]vfr_steve, on Mar 9 2009, 12:48 AM, said:
NO BASHING from 5th genner please!!
3rd gen here :ph34r:
[image: View Post]vfr_steve, on Mar 9 2009, 02:05 AM, said:
In small throttle openings, say going round a bend creeping up to 6800rpm, sometimes the bike will just bog down in the transition, other times when I power through it, I'll get a nasty lurch and it's been that harsh to send me slightly forward and the front forks to dive!!!
I have heard from vtec owners that vtec transition was much smoother after synching the starter valves. If the vtec kick is most prominent when the throtle opening is small, that would be one of the first things to check.
[image: View Post]vfr_steve, on Mar 8 2009, 06:48 PM, said:
I'm very sorry to do this and start another thread so soon, especially of this capacity but can I have some real honest answers here please...
Before I decide to part/ex my VFR for a Blackbird I need to know one very important thing....
On a ride-out, how many times can you honestly and truthfully say do you feel the vtec 'kick', and when I mean 'kick' it feels like the bike hesitates, like a 'bump' or misfire...?
[image: View Post]V4 Rosso, on Mar 10 2009, 02:51 PM, said:
[image: View Post]vfr_steve, on Mar 9 2009, 12:48 AM, said:
NO BASHING from 5th genner please!!
3rd gen here :ph34r:
[image: View Post]vfr_steve, on Mar 9 2009, 02:05 AM, said:
In small throttle openings, say going round a bend creeping up to 6800rpm, sometimes the bike will just bog down in the transition, other times when I power through it, I'll get a nasty lurch and it's been that harsh to send me slightly forward and the front forks to dive!!!
I have heard from vtec owners that vtec transition was much smoother after synching the starter valves. If the vtec kick is most prominent when the throtle opening is small, that would be one of the first things to check.
There is a Howto in the VFRD Wiki.
[image: View Post]Bent, on Mar 10 2009, 02:54 PM, said:
[image: View Post]vfr_steve, on Mar 8 2009, 06:48 PM, said:
I'm very sorry to do this and start another thread so soon, especially of this capacity but can I have some real honest answers here please...
Before I decide to part/ex my VFR for a Blackbird I need to know one very important thing....
On a ride-out, how many times can you honestly and truthfully say do you feel the vtec 'kick', and when I mean 'kick' it feels like the bike hesitates, like a 'bump' or misfire...?
NO BASHING from 5th genner please!!
Thanks
Steve
I've never felt it "bump" in 19K miles.
I've got to say I'm very impressed that everyone has behaved themselves with this one :biggrin: .. I hope I haven't spoke too soon..
Hmm synching the starter valves? I've heard of that one sometime ago, I'll check that one out - sounds like another dealer-job though. Need to work through some of these things a month-at-a-time, in the meantime, she runs smooth as silk 90% of the time and no issues when it's warm...
I find that VERY hard to believe but hey, I guess if you don't ride these things everyday it's possible.
I tell you what, next time do a little experiment, wait untill it warms up JUST after VTEC is activated, then head out short-shifting before VTEC untill you're in 5th gear then nail it from say 4500revs... bump?
My '03 had some smoothness issues when new but improved a lot with slip ons and a K&N panel. Then after I got the recall sub harness installed it seemed to bog and kick at 7K. Not sure what the deal is there. :angry:
[image: View Post]vfr_steve, on Mar 8 2009, 08:46 PM, said:
''Has it always been that way or something that's started more recently?
It's been doing it more recently during the colder winter months, but you never know when it's going to hit hard or not, and I can't be dealing with the 'what ifs' when I ought to be concentrating on the road. I think I may have a t-stac issue (other thread below) but even when the engine temp is at 70c it can do it and very harsh at times.
I forgot to mention that in the TStat thread. Once I got that fixed my VTEC engagement became smooth. It had been getting progressivly worse, the longer I rode in cold weather with the stuck Tstat. The Tstat fixed fuel economy, overall power, and helped with the VTEC.
That being said, it still hits pretty hard if you roll into it in first, but I mostly only use it from 3rd and up, with the very occasional blast through 2nd gear...
Since I installed a PCIII and O2 sensor eliminators I've not felt the infamous VTEC 'hesitation'. More miles on the bike has helped, too, since there are almost 30k on it now. Pre-PCIII I did experience that hesitation a few times, but it was very, very rare. But most of the time my entry into VTEC mode is hard charging, not a gradual climb, so there's less opportunity for the revs to falter.
Also, notice that Bent has an '06 - the year Honda changed the VTEC engagement point and probably sorted out the surging issues due to bad FI mapping. His bike is probably smoother than mine was prior to installing my PC. Personally I like my bike's 6900-7000 rpm VTEC transition. It lets me run well over the legal limit on the freeway (Which I never do personally, of course!) without getting into VTEC. ;)
As for synching the starter valves, I was told by a Ducati dealer that they do this during Dyno testing/PC configuration. I'm using Cozye's map for my '04 w/stock pipes (and K&N air filter) and haven't had any issues, but I still might have the Dyno/PC job done by that Duc shop sometime.
Though some people complain that it shouldn't take $300-$400 for a PCIII, etc. to make the bike run the way it should in the first place, to me the price of that equipment is well worth the benefits they provide. Think of it as a performance mod, kind of similar to how people with carb'd bikes buy and fine-tune jet kits. IMO it's a small price to pay to make an already terrific machine that much better. :)
[image: View Post]vfr_steve, on Mar 10 2009, 10:13 AM, said:
''I've never felt it "bump" in 19K miles''
I find that VERY hard to believe but hey, I guess if you don't ride these things everyday it's possible.
I tell you what, next time do a little experiment, wait untill it warms up JUST after VTEC is activated, then head out short-shifting before VTEC untill you're in 5th gear then nail it from say 4500revs... bump?
First, please don't imply I'm a liar with sarcastic comments to follow on this board. Do it face to face and be a man about it or don't do it at all.
Second, why would anyone ever nail a throttle on a VFR at 4500rpm in 5th gear. No wonder you have "problems". I think the real issue is apparent.... :rolleyes:
[image: View Post]Bent, on Mar 10 2009, 06:51 PM, said:
[image: View Post]vfr_steve, on Mar 10 2009, 10:13 AM, said:
''I've never felt it "bump" in 19K miles''
I find that VERY hard to believe but hey, I guess if you don't ride these things everyday it's possible.
I tell you what, next time do a little experiment, wait untill it warms up JUST after VTEC is activated, then head out short-shifting before VTEC untill you're in 5th gear then nail it from say 4500revs... bump?
First, please don't imply I'm a liar with sarcastic comments to follow on this board. Do it face to face and be a man about it or don't do it at all.
Second, why would anyone ever nail a throttle on a VFR at 4500rpm in 5th gear. No wonder you have "problems". I think the real issue is apparent.... :rolleyes:
Oh for god's sake I'm not having a pop at you so don't even think about turning this into something else, what's with the short fuse aye??
I'm was merely pointing out as an experiment... when I'm travelling at 80mph in 5th , about 5500rpm, then hit a long straight and gun it from there it hits bad when cold...
''Do it face to face and be a man about it ''
What the hell are you going on about.. I've tested 2 06+ vtecs and vearious others that have done the SAME thing, so I find it hard to believe. Get over it
I've done well, I've managed to avoid a 'scrap' on this forum, 1st time ever anyone has taken something to heart :rolleyes:
This thread has been of huge help to me and I thank all of you for the advice and experiences on the subject, when funds allow me I'll be getting that T-Stat replaced, but the old girl is desperately in need of a service 1st
The Tstat should be the service... It is the base of a lot of your issues. Unless you meant it needs brakes/tire/chain/sprockets... You might aswell only pay to have it taken apart once, if you are getting new plugs/filter, etc.
[image: View Post]magicman, on Mar 11 2009, 02:33 PM, said:
The Tstat should be the service... It is the base of a lot of your issues. Unless you meant it needs brakes/tire/chain/sprockets... You might aswell only pay to have it taken apart once, if you are getting new plugs/filter, etc.
Funny you should say that, I've rang the dealer and I've asked them to look into getting the t-stat replaced at the same time, makes sense as you say, kill two birds with one stone and get the thing done - Won't be untill the first weekend in April.
.. I'm tempted to book a test ride on a new VFR800 at Honda if it's cold at the weekend, primarily for a water temp comparison
[image: View Post]vfr_steve, on Mar 11 2009, 07:28 AM, said:
[image: View Post]magicman, on Mar 11 2009, 02:33 PM, said:
The Tstat should be the service... It is the base of a lot of your issues. Unless you meant it needs brakes/tire/chain/sprockets... You might aswell only pay to have it taken apart once, if you are getting new plugs/filter, etc.
Funny you should say that, I've rang the dealer and I've asked them to look into getting the t-stat replaced at the same time, makes sense as you say, kill two birds with one stone and get the thing done - Won't be untill the first weekend in April.
.. I'm tempted to book a test ride on a new VFR800 at Honda if it's cold at the weekend, primarily for a water temp comparison
I own a 06' and had simular issue's until the PCIII was installed. When I had the bike dyno'd, it had a 5hp drop and then a 10hp increase at the v-tec trasition. The dyno shop smoothed that out and now I don't have any issue's with it. The bike runs smooth! It has 10k on it and still not an issue with the transition point...
I think that you will probably find the same issue on a new bike.
Hi everyone this is my first post to the forum. I'm considering buying a used Interceptor and read through this whole thread. Great info, though it seems the verdict is still out on pre-2006 VTEC - too jerky to toss the bike through canyons with full confidence or not, which is a requirement for my next bike.
Sooo, does anyone know the viability of upgrading a 2002-2005 VFR to 2006's ECU so that the VTEC engages at the more civil 6400RPM rather than 6700 or 6800? And if possible, would the time and cost of the mod even make the cost savings of an older model worth it compared to just buying an '06?
Thanks in advance for the help! The Interceptor seems like the perfect bike for my needs and it'd be a shame to have to pass it up over a (hopefully) fixable technical issue.
[image: View Post]WestCoast4Life, on Mar 27 2009, 09:47 AM, said:
Hi everyone this is my first post to the forum. I'm considering buying a used Interceptor and read through this whole thread. Great info, though it seems the verdict is still out on pre-2006 VTEC - too jerky to toss the bike through canyons with full confidence or not, which is a requirement for my next bike.
Sooo, does anyone know the viability of upgrading a 2002-2005 VFR to 2006's ECU so that the VTEC engages at the more civil 6400RPM rather than 6700 or 6800? And if possible, would the time and cost of the mod even make the cost savings of an older model worth it compared to just buying an '06?
Thanks in advance for the help! The Interceptor seems like the perfect bike for my needs and it'd be a shame to have to pass it up over a (hopefully) fixable technical issue.
Just keep in consideration before others chime in that the 06+ isn't necessarily smoother, it just engages at a lower rpm and stays on until 6200rpm ... I've ridden an 06 and the actual transition felt pretty much the same with a slight jerk the 1st time it is activated... having said that I still feel that you should not overlook the 6th gen because of this, it's a fantastic bike and the only bike that fits my needs - rock solid, smooth as silk, drop dead looks and... it's a V4 :cool:
... and a lot of my issues is because the engine is running cold at the moment - 95% of the time I don't even notice it's there
[image: View Post]WestCoast4Life, on Mar 27 2009, 05:47 AM, said:
Hi everyone this is my first post to the forum. I'm considering buying a used Interceptor and read through this whole thread. Great info, though it seems the verdict is still out on pre-2006 VTEC - too jerky to toss the bike through canyons with full confidence or not, which is a requirement for my next bike.
Sooo, does anyone know the viability of upgrading a 2002-2005 VFR to 2006's ECU so that the VTEC engages at the more civil 6400RPM rather than 6700 or 6800? And if possible, would the time and cost of the mod even make the cost savings of an older model worth it compared to just buying an '06?
Thanks in advance for the help! The Interceptor seems like the perfect bike for my needs and it'd be a shame to have to pass it up over a (hopefully) fixable technical issue.
I think you should ride the bike you are interested in and see how you like it. I have a 2003 with no performance upgrades. It has 24000 miles. It transitions through the vtec engagement very smoothly. Yes there is an increase in power and sound but it does not hesitate or "dive" as some have complained. This thread has made me very conscience of the transition lately but I don't have any complaints. I do not have any problems with the vtec kicking in while mid corner. There are plenty of us who have no problems with our bikes and we usually do not weigh in on these threads because we have nothing to offer. Just wanted to let you know that there is at least one 2002-2005 happy owner.
[image: View Post]WestCoast4Life, on Mar 27 2009, 05:47 AM, said:
Hi everyone this is my first post to the forum. I'm considering buying a used Interceptor and read through this whole thread. Great info, though it seems the verdict is still out on pre-2006 VTEC - too jerky to toss the bike through canyons with full confidence or not, which is a requirement for my next bike.
Sooo, does anyone know the viability of upgrading a 2002-2005 VFR to 2006's ECU so that the VTEC engages at the more civil 6400RPM rather than 6700 or 6800? And if possible, would the time and cost of the mod even make the cost savings of an older model worth it compared to just buying an '06?
Thanks in advance for the help! The Interceptor seems like the perfect bike for my needs and it'd be a shame to have to pass it up over a (hopefully) fixable technical issue.
First of all, welcome aboard. :fing02:
If you are spending 99% of your time in the twisties, then I would not recommend a VFR. It is really not the best choice for that. If you want a compromise between comfort and decent twisty performance, then buy a viffer and don't concern yourself with the VTEC transition.
Yes, some people, myself included, have been annoyed by rough transitions at times. However, most owners do not have this issue and only those that complain tend to get into the spotlight, creating the impression that all or most bikes behave that way. Yes, I've complained and bitched about it, but the fact is, that it does not happen all the time. Maybe 5% of the time at best. Another fact is that given the opportunity, and I've had several, I would not trade my VFR for something else. There's just nothing out there that satisfies my requirements quite like the VFR. This is not a VFR fanatic speaking - I bought this bike for purely utilitarian reasons w/o knowing any of its history or of its following.
My advise is to buy one, own it for a season and then decide whether you want to keep it. If you buy used, you will not lose a dime in depreciation. I own a 2002 model and after 3 years of ownership, I can still sell mine for what I paid for it. ;)
I have an '04 I bought used in '06. I bought a PCIII and O2 sensor eliminators a couple years ago but didn't install them until last year. My VFR never had a nasty VTEC transition, but more miles on the clock smoothed it out a bit, then the PCIII made it very smooth. So smooth I can't even tell sometimes when it transitions.
My advice is don't worry about the VTEC thing. If you buy a VFR that has a harsher-than-average VTEC transition, spend a few hundred bucks on the PCIII and a cheap pair of Radio Shack O2 eliminators. Installation is pretty easy, and most people end up spending hundreds on mods for their bikes anyway, so just think of it as a performance mod.
Also, I've never heard of a VTEC transition in a curve that broke the rear wheel loose and caused a crash. And if you're concerned about it, just stay above the transition RPM level in the twisties. You'll have more power and fine throttle control up there on the tach anyway, plus the sound of the V4 is amazing at 8-10k rpm! :fing02:
Coming home tonight, -1C out, my engine (water) gauge reading 67C... go to overtake and UMPH--kicking in and front dives momentarily, ahh what the heck I'm used to it in the cold now - when it's very cold if I stay above vtec the engine temp warms up a bit - but if I cruise below she will drop fast down to about 62C....
One question I'll ask with the intention of not opening up a seperate thread...
When Full beam is on - when you press the brakes or indicator the lights dip very slight for a split second - is this normal??
I have done the 30amp fix and wire harness patch.
End of thread · 78 posts recoveredWayback Machine snapshot 12 Apr 2010