VFRDiscussion ARCHIVE / READ-ONLYREAD-ONLY

2011 Vfr 1000cc - 1200cc V4 Engine

44 posts Started 19 Mar 2009 Last recovered post 1 Jul 2009 Wayback Machine snapshot 4 Nov 2010

#1
Hmmmm...

[image: View Post]Australian Motorcycle News, on Mar 31 2009, Vol58 No18, said:

HONDA V4 ENGINE REVEALED IN DEATAIL

Radical three-camshaft layout developed to cut size and weight of the hugely anticipated 2011 V4

These are the first pictures to reveal in detail the internal workings of the next-generation Honda V4 engine which will power the production version of the radical concept bike unveiled in october.
They show that despite the recession, Honda is still investing heavily in new technology with a completely different cylinder head design for the front and rear banks as the company goes all out to eliminate the packaging proplems that have traditionally made V4 motors awkward to fit into production sportsbikes.

The new V4 will feature an incredibly compact front cylinder head design, with just one camshaft operating all eight valves in that head, while the rear cylinder head is a tech-fest incorporating the company's latest variable-cylinder and variable valve technology. It all comes in the desire to cut precious milimeters from the engine's length and height to create a tightly packaged machine.

That's not the only area where Honda have fiddled with the conventional layout of the V4. It has also changed the engine's bore-centre spacing to achieve a design that is narrower in the back where space width wise is at a premium, and wider at the front. The firm's done it by arranging the conrods so that the pair from the front cylinder attach to the outer ends of the cranshaft, while the rear cylinder conrods are mounted closeer together to the centre. The result is a design that's more like a V5 {with the central piston in the front bank removed} than a conventional V4 such as Aprilia's new RSV4 where the conrods for the front and rear cylinders are alternated along the length of the crankshaft.
The shorter front cylinder heads allow the whole engine to be moved forwards, close to the radiator, while freeing up extra space above for the airbox. And the narrow rear piston layout means that the frame can be drawn inwards where the rider's knees need to go, giving the feeling of a much narrower bike.

THREE-CAM ENGINE:

Usually the front and rear banks of a V4 engine are mirror images of one another - a design that simplifies production and saves cost. But Honda is renowned for bucking the convention and the new V4 is no exception. The bike uses a completely different design for each cylinder head.
The front head follows the design cues of Honda's CRF450 motocross bike, which saves weight and size on it's four valve single cylinder engine by using a single camshaft with three lobes to operate all four valves, marketed under Hondas Unicam trademark. The two outer lobes individually act on the intake valves, with the central lobe moving the exhaust valves via a Y-shaped rocker arm. The new V4 does exactly the same thing inside its front cylinder head, but with two cylinders, eight valves and a six lobe camshaft.
To further cut down on the cylinder head's size, Honda has ditched it much anticipated variable cylinder management {VCM} system from the front head, A development of the Hyper VTEC in the current VFR, VCM is designed to lock out all four valves to deactivate entire cylinders when they're are not needed, However, the system needs lengthened buckets and valve stems, increasing the height of the cylinder head, so Honda has removed it from the front of the new V4, leaving the system to operate only on the rear cylinders.
The rear cylinders can run on two valves per cylinder, giving better low-end torque; or be shut down completely, leaving just the front cylinders firing; or operate in full power mode with all four valves.

http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o92/Resuam/newvfr.jpg

Oh well... least we didn't get served some p'chop suey.
#2
Sounds just bizarre enough to be true.
Unfortunately, if that is true, it'll move the VFR from being a high-tech showcase to a econo-showcase. :mad:
They might as well rename it the VFR Civic Hybrid.
What's next; flex-fuel?
If I want to run on two cylinders, I'll buy a Ninja 250.
#4
Either way, I'll believe it when I see it. It is an interesting idea with the engine con-rods and all, I guess having Yamaha do something fairly radical to an in-line four may give Honda something to ponder. By the time I get done with my 4th Gen, I won't need a new bike, but I still like to look anyway. As ugly as I thought the new CBR 1000RR and R1 were, they are growing on me. I suppose this could be the case with a new VFR as well...
#5
The rummor mill is in full gear.
#6
That's it, I'm buying up every low priced older VFR I can find, and going into business selling super-frankenbikes. That's just too much crap for me to like on a bike. One of the millions of reasons that I ride is to operate the machine, not to push frikking buttons.
#7
Where's my beating the dead horse emoticons.... :goofy:

Show me one on a floor room and then I will believe it. Until then, I am going for a ride with Bat Boy.
#8
"semi-automatic, double-clutch gearbox".. "twist and go superbike". These things will make a man cry.....
#9

[image: View Post]ggathagan, on Mar 19 2009, 04:26 AM, said:

Unfortunately, if that is true, it'll move the VFR from being a high-tech showcase to a econo-showcase.

Just the opposite really, if true it will be a design with a much higher production cost vs current V4 design.
"Usually the front and rear banks of a V4 engine are mirror images of one another - a design that simplifies production and saves cost. But Honda is renowned for bucking the convention and the new V4 is no exception. The bike uses a completely different design for each cylinder head."

This could be real. I wondered if Honda would let someone else(Aprilia) jump to the top with a new V4 engine in WSB. :cool:

#10

[image: View Post]vanion2, on Mar 19 2009, 06:16 AM, said:

Where's my beating the dead horse emoticons.... :goofy:

http://i429.photobucket.com/albums/qq17/hidesertmlb/VFRD/Beating_A_Dead_Horse_by_livius.gif


I really gotta say this article seems plausible. At least this isn't coming from MCN, no photochops, or patent filing rumors.
#11
I for one, think this would actually be pretty neat. I've yet to read about any serious issues (lag/jolts aside) with the VTEC system in our current bikes failing. I'd gladly ride a bike that gets me much improved fuel economy and reduced power/twitchiness around town. As long as I have to ability to open'er up on the back roads I'll be happy. I'm not huge on the electronic clutch, but I haven't tried it yet. It might just be the cats meow.

Bring it on Honda. (Don't forget the matching luggage though). :fing02:
#12
A plausible description of what could be, from a technological point of view, a very interesting experiment... but I, like Seb, want to ride bikes... what next? Automatic pilot?

Looks like I may not sell the 5th gen... now where was Toro1's phone number...?
#13
If they build a new bike around a new V4, I doubt it would be anything like our VFR's and would most likely be more Super Sport or Hyper Sport oriented IMO. Then again the new CBR1000rr did win MasterBike and other awards as a super all around bike! :cool:

Out of all the BS rumors we've seen over the last 5 years, I like this one the best! :blush:
I think Honda needs a Big Bang liter engine to compete in WSB and AMA superbike, will it be a V4??? :mellow:
#14
No, NO NO NO NO NO NO.

I don't want any of that crap. Give me a clutch and gears I get to choose, more power, inverted forks with a completely adjustable suspension and a new look and I am happy.
Other than that, let me say it again, NO NO NO NO NO NO NO
#15
Grimace. Groan. Sigh. Well, at least it appears to still have only two wheels... :blink: This is why I'm hanging on to my lurvly 5th gen and eventually will frankenbikenfarkle it to keep it fresh for another 20 years. What's next - rolling starts for motorcycle races? Oh wait - just seen at Dayturda. More signs of the impending apocalypse. Better stock up on Toro Chargers and tires and parts. TSHHTF :ohmy: !!!!!

Clutchless shifting? Meh! Should never have migrated from scooters...
#16

[image: View Post]melvis, on Mar 19 2009, 02:14 PM, said:

Clutchless shifting? Meh! Should never have migrated from scooters...

Why?

It's quicker, more accurate and should be almost foolproof. How much do you ride the clutch, other than when moving the bike around at very low speed? I'm not sure what they have done for that reguard, but from 2nd gear to 6th, why bother with a clutch if you don't have to? :huh:
#17
Hey Honda... call the BLS for my engineered belt drive system... just ante up a 11mm belt with the
correct number of teeth...

Mr.RC45's belt conversion mock up...
http://www.vfrdiscussion.com/forum/uploads/1237264746/gallery_3131_51_50025.jpg
#18
Hey, wait a minute...isn't it 6 months early for these rumors to start??? I personally like shifting my VFR. If I didn't want to shift, I'd buy one of those DN-01 thingys...I'd also like to see a sportier VFR, one that more closely matches it's racing heritage, not the touring sector, but I know not everyone feels that way, I'd be willing to bet that I'm the minority with this thinking...
#19

[image: View Post]magicman, on Mar 20 2009, 04:55 AM, said:

I'd gladly ride a bike that gets me much improved fuel economy and reduced power/twitchiness around town.
Well, you're likely to get more twitchiness with this, if it's dropping whole cylinders rather than just half the valves. And as for the comment about "running only two valves per cylinder for increased torque at low revs", we KNOW that's not how/why they engineered the thing.

[image: View Post]douglasthecook, on Mar 20 2009, 08:09 AM, said:

If I didn't want to shift, I'd buy one of those DN-01 thingys...
Doesn't the DN-01 "Easy Rider" thingy allow you to shift manually if you wish to?
#20

[image: View Post]enzed_viffer, on Mar 19 2009, 04:43 PM, said:

Doesn't the DN-01 "Easy Rider" thingy allow you to shift manually if you wish to?
Yeah, but it's with your thumb instead of hand+foot.
#21
While you guys bitch and complain I'll go get on the list to buy one :fing02: No joke If it looks half as good as my 6th gen bike I am buying one...I like all the techno toys :beer:

If it shifts as fast as a dam VW DSG box you won't be disapointed. Its fairly amazing how fast you can shift a DSG box.

1000-1200cc, full abs, traction control, and button shifting.... I'd say that is some HD techonlogy on any kind of bike.

Then I'll just make my Current VFR into full bore track bike. :491:


flamesuit on :lurk:
#22

[image: View Post]magicman, on Mar 19 2009, 06:10 PM, said:

[image: View Post]melvis, on Mar 19 2009, 02:14 PM, said:

Clutchless shifting? Meh! Should never have migrated from scooters...

Why?

It's quicker, more accurate and should be almost foolproof. How much do you ride the clutch, other than when moving the bike around at very low speed? I'm not sure what they have done for that reguard, but from 2nd gear to 6th, why bother with a clutch if you don't have to? :huh:


Call me a retrogrouchy curmodgeon but I like to shift when I want to - not to have someone else's idea of when to shift imposed upon me. As for using the clutch - I use it every time I change gears up or down - it's how I've been riding since 1978 and will be until they pry my last bike from my cold dead hands. I'm sure autoshifting has it's niche - in the really crusty auld fart touring club universe - IMHO they might as well put a third wheel on the thing and a barcalounger on the back for the missus. Oh, and don't forget the boody cupholders... :goofy:
#23
I reckon this looks like very clever technology, hope it's true!
#24
well this has prompted Yamaha to spring into hi-tech action:

http://www.likecool.com/Car/Motorcycle/Yamaha%20Deus%20Ex%20Machina%20Concept%20Motorcycle/Yamaha-Deus-Ex-Machina-Concept-Motorcycle.jpg
#25
I wish honda would take a leaf out of aprilia's V4 book!
#26
Did someone say "full throttle push button clutchless shifting" ?

:fing02: Bring it on !

On second thought, I don't want that - I already miss having to retard/advance my ignition timing manually :goofy:
#27

[image: View Post]BusyLittleShop, on Mar 19 2009, 12:13 PM, said:

Hey Honda... call the BLS for my engineered belt drive system... just ante up a 11mm belt with the
correct number of teeth...

Mr.RC45's belt conversion mock up...
http://www.vfrdiscussion.com/forum/uploads/1237264746/gallery_3131_51_50025.jpg
Now there's some technology I am looking forward to! :fing02:
#28
Sounds... different.

I love that Honda be thinks "outside of the box" and explores new technological ideas, but I'm not holding my breath for this machine to show up, at least not exactly as described.

Just because these ideas are showing up in a patent office doesn't mean they are about to show up on the showroom floor. All sorts of ideas that may or may not ever go into production get patented to protect them, just in case they might ever be used someday.

Neat to see that Gen 7 may finally be coming though!
#29
Where the heck does Honda do their market research? I do no get where they think people want an automatic. Kudos for pushing the technology envelope but......
#30

[image: View Post]mica, on Mar 21 2009, 12:12 AM, said:

Where the heck does Honda do their market research? I do no get where they think people want an automatic. Kudos for pushing the technology envelope but......


If it is a DSG style box it IS NOT an automatic it is a manual with electronic shifting HUGE diffrence. Uses clutch plates not a torque converter and the shifts can be programed to be hard or soft.

Go drive a VW with a DSG box in to get a first hand try with a DSG style box. Much like F1 paddle shifting. Its pretty neat. And I dislike an auto in anything including my family cars... We have 6 cars one is an auto...
#31

[image: View Post]Baileyrock, on Mar 19 2009, 04:44 AM, said:

[image: View Post]ggathagan, on Mar 19 2009, 04:26 AM, said:

Unfortunately, if that is true, it'll move the VFR from being a high-tech showcase to a econo-showcase.
Just the opposite really, if true it will be a design with a much higher production cost vs current V4 design.
Yeah, waaaay after the fact, but what I meant was econo as in gas-saving, not econo as in inexpensive.
I think we've all noticed how anything "Green" usually costs a lot of green, as well. :dry:
#32

[image: View Post]SAFE-T, on Mar 19 2009, 04:57 PM, said:

Did someone say "full throttle push button clutchless shifting" ?

:fing02: Bring it on !

On second thought, I don't want that - I already miss having to retard/advance my ignition timing manually :goofy:

A bit late to the prom with my reply Rick, but how about converting 'ol Murphy to a total-loss oiling system????

You could put a nifty little plunger pump on the LH bar??? :laugh:
#33
Australian Motorcycle News have been out in the sun too long...
#34
I don't know........... all that talk on the three cam engine and VTEC sounds like a mapping nightmare to me.

I'll believe that when I see it.
#35
I love it! As long as they keep the maintenance cost low (no more zillion$ valve adj.), and have a foot option for gear change we'll ALL end up loving it. There was not mention of getting rid of that wretched chain though. :angry:

BFN
#36

[image: View Post]vfr_steve, on Mar 19 2009, 05:40 AM, said:

no no no no no no

no no no....SURGING! :laugh:
#37

[image: View Post]DDO-VFR, on Apr 17 2009, 06:44 AM, said:

I love it! As long as they keep the maintenance cost low (no more zillion$ valve adj.), and have a foot option for gear change we'll ALL end up loving it.
BFN


I dunno...with two different head arrangments on the same engine, it sure sounds like a maintenance nightmare to me.
#38

[image: View Post]tyrroneous, on Jun 24 2009, 08:07 AM, said:

[image: View Post]DDO-VFR, on Apr 17 2009, 06:44 AM, said:

I love it! As long as they keep the maintenance cost low (no more zillion$ valve adj.), and have a foot option for gear change we'll ALL end up loving it.
BFN


I dunno...with two different head arrangments on the same engine, it sure sounds like a maintenance nightmare to me.


It's a honda it won't be a maintenance nightmare. I say bring this bike on. It's about time someone pushed the techno button. Give us something fresh, bold, different and unconventional. Who knows we just might like it and if we don't there is still plenty of the same old stuff out there that we can pick up.
#40
http://image.sportrider.com/f/18912232%20w750%20st0/146_0906_03_z%202010_honda_VFR1200%20spy_shots.jpg
http://image.sportrider.com/f/18912235%20w750%20st0/146_0906_02_z%202010_honda_VFR1200%20spy_shots.jpg
http://image.sportrider.com/f/news/146_0906_2010_honda_vfr1200_spy_photos/18912286%20pheader_460x1000/146_0906_01_z%202010_honda_VFR1200%20spy_shots.jpg
#43

[image: View Post]YoshiHNS, on Jun 30 2009, 02:49 PM, said:

Forget about all this 1200CC nonsense. I know what the Honda Engine Dept. has been up to.

Haha, kickace. Love that exhaust. Don't love the whole "low revving" part though
End of thread · 44 posts recovered Wayback Machine snapshot 4 Nov 2010