190/55 Dunlop On A 94-97 Swingarm? Does It Fit?

Hey guys, here's the situation. I have a non-NTech Dunlop 209GP 190/55 rear tire take-off from my R6 race bike from a couple of years ago (many, if not most 600's run 190's on the rear when club and pro racing these days). Furthermore, the non-Ntech tire grows at speed, making any already big tire even bigger, which was why Dunlop came out with the Ntech 209GP's the next year. So I just finished installing a 94-97 VFR750 swingarm on my 98 900RR. Do you guys know whether the tire will clear the swingarm? I don't want to mount and balance the tire only to realize that it won't fit.

I know the 190/55 tire will fit my 5.5" 90-93 wheel. I also installed a 07 CBR600RR shock, which was about 5mm shorter than the 900RR shock. Coupled with the longer swingarm of the VFR, which increased my wheel base by at least 2 inches, I figure the 190/55 will help maintain the trail. Actually, the main reason is that I just have a rear tire with a lot of meet sitting around and I want to use it :laugh:

TIA!

Hello ,

Forget it !
Dunlop tires are generaly "oversized" : a 170 is near to 180mm width, and a 180 near to 190 mm; I have had a D207 installed on a 5.5 inches rim (of a 3rd gen VFR) ; in theory the width of the tyre was 180 , but I saw that the edge of the D207 have slightly rubbed the swingarm and leave a print (small) in it !
It will be worse with a 190 !
And if you drive "hard" , the VFR Swingarm is a little bit "light" for a 180, compared to the swingarm of a 900RR !

I have a 95 VFR and I once mounted a 190 Dunlop, it was close on the clearance but it worked, BTW I ride pretty hard and never had any problems. That said my best advice is to skip the Dunlop unless you are just getting a great deal on it or something.

^ Do you remember if your Dunlop was a 190/55 or 190/50??

What do you by 'hard' and 'light' when referring to swingarms? Do you mean that the VFR may not handle the stress or forces of a 190 tire somehow?

I guess I am getting a pretty good deal on the tire because it's free :laugh: Well, technically, I paid $420 for the set and only did 20 laps on it -- but saying it's free makes me feel better about it :biggrin:

Oh and I just thought of this:


Although I don't have a tire changer, I can throw tire around the rim, I just won't be able to seat the tire on the wheel. Then, I can mount the tire and wheel on the swingarm and it'll give me a much better idea of how much space I have to work with.

With a single sided swingarm, I should move the hub as close to the front of the bike as possible before I measure and cut for the chain, correct?

If you can get the tire on the wheel, why can't you seat the bead? That is the easy part....just add air.

[image: View Post]Tightwad, on Apr 26 2009, 07:33 AM, said:

If you can get the tire on the wheel, why can't you seat the bead? That is the easy part....just add air.


I've seated the beads on a newly installed 180/55-17 using a cheap little portable/emergency 12v air compressor before.

Worked fine, just don't expect NASCAR pit crew times to do it.

[image: View Post]Gap Trash, on Apr 25 2009, 08:44 PM, said:

That said my best advice is to skip the Dunlop unless you are just getting a great deal on it or something.
That 209GP is a different animal than any Dunlop street tire; I would take it over a Pilot Power any day.

Are you sure it is a 190/55? I thought the 209s only came in 190/60.

[image: View Post]jeremy556, on Apr 26 2009, 12:38 PM, said:

[image: View Post]Gap Trash, on Apr 25 2009, 08:44 PM, said:

That said my best advice is to skip the Dunlop unless you are just getting a great deal on it or something.
That 209GP is a different animal than any Dunlop street tire; I would take it over a Pilot Power any day.

Are you sure it is a 190/55? I thought the 209s only came in 190/60.


^ yes, thank you for correcting me. It's been a while since I ran dunlops or the 209's. It's one reason why I am afraid it won't fit w/o rubbing.

[image: View Post]veefer800canuck, on Apr 26 2009, 11:06 AM, said:

[image: View Post]Tightwad, on Apr 26 2009, 07:33 AM, said:

If you can get the tire on the wheel, why can't you seat the bead? That is the easy part....just add air.


I've seated the beads on a newly installed 180/55-17 using a cheap little portable/emergency 12v air compressor before.

Worked fine, just don't expect NASCAR pit crew times to do it.

I mean getting one side/lip of the tire on the wheel. Getting the other side/lip of the tire on, would require a tire changer and irons.

btw, how do you balance a single sided wheel? You can't use a traditional balancer, like this right?...

http://tbn2.google.com/images?q=tbn:w5Wmrw...ncer-handle.jpg

The squeezed sidewalls I had with Dunlop 207s on my 4th gen's 5 inch rims (which was OEM to the 4th gen) really felt weird and almost unsafe at times when I had my bike leaned over in the tight stuff. Felt really vague/unstable at full lean on the resulting very steep sidewalls. IIRC, even Dunlop themselves admitted that there was a problem with their oversized 170's then and actually later came up with a version of their 170 section 207s that were actually more like 170's than 180's width-wise, so it fits the 5" rims better on bikes like the 4th gen VFRs.
All I can say is, I wouldn't recommend doing it.

BecK
95 VFR

[image: View Post]cbrizzle, on Apr 26 2009, 11:48 AM, said:

btw, how do you balance a single sided wheel? You can't use a traditional balancer, like this right?...

http://tbn2.google.com/images?q=tbn:w5Wmrw...ncer-handle.jpg
You have to buy or make an adapter to fit in the backside of the wheel. Harbor Freight is selling one now for the VFR and other ss wheels. There are also cone adapters that fit on either side of the wheel and center it.

http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/Disp...temnumber=65079

Or something like this:
http://www.marcparnes.com/Honda_Motorcycle...el_Balancer.htm

The only question that comes to mind about this whole thread is:

WHY?

A 180 on a 5th gen wheel on a 4th gen bike makes it handle the best.
Even a 180 on the 4th gen wheel makes the once stable VFR twitchy.

But I guess, do what you want. It is your bike.
Most riders aren't skilled enough to tell the difference how a bike should handle... :(

[image: View Post]gr8vfr, on Apr 26 2009, 04:57 PM, said:

The only question that comes to mind about this whole thread is:

WHY?

A 180 on a 5th gen wheel on a 4th gen bike makes it handle the best.
Even a 180 on the 4th gen wheel makes the once stable VFR twitchy.

But I guess, do what you want. It is your bike.
Most riders aren't skilled enough to tell the difference how a bike should handle... :(
That tire is a DOT race tire, it is a 190/60 with a taller profile than a 180/55, and should have no problem fitting on a 5.5" rim. :fing02:

[image: View Post]gr8vfr, on Apr 26 2009, 03:57 PM, said:

WHY?


If you read above, I'm only contemplating it cause it's 'free' :biggrin: I can't really sell it as a take-off cause no one wants to use a non-ntech dunlop race tire when the ntech 209's and 211's are available.

Again, my major concern is swingarm clearance. I know a 190 race tire (which are all 55's or 60's) will fit a 5.5" rim. If it ends up rubbing, I guess I will end up having a slick on the left side of my tire :laugh: jk

[image: View Post]vfrcapn, on Apr 26 2009, 03:42 PM, said:

[image: View Post]cbrizzle, on Apr 26 2009, 11:48 AM, said:

btw, how do you balance a single sided wheel? You can't use a traditional balancer, like this right?...

http://tbn2.google.com/images?q=tbn:w5Wmrw...ncer-handle.jpg
You have to buy or make an adapter to fit in the backside of the wheel. Harbor Freight is selling one now for the VFR and other ss wheels. There are also cone adapters that fit on either side of the wheel and center it.

http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/Disp...temnumber=65079

Or something like this:
http://www.marcparnes.com/Honda_Motorcycle...el_Balancer.htm


Wow, I surprised HB has this!! Thank you for the info. I don't have a balancer, but I've always wondered how these wheels were balanced on a static balancer.

[image: View Post]cbrizzle, on Apr 26 2009, 06:39 PM, said:

[image: View Post]gr8vfr, on Apr 26 2009, 03:57 PM, said:

WHY?


If you read above, I'm only contemplating it cause it's 'free' :biggrin: I can't really sell it as a take-off cause no one wants to use a non-ntech dunlop race tire when the ntech 209's and 211's are available.

Again, my major concern is swingarm clearance. I know a 190 race tire (which are all 55's or 60's) will fit a 5.5" rim. If it ends up rubbing, I guess I will end up having a slick on the left side of my tire :laugh: jk


It is a pretty common post on this forum of people wanting to install 190/50 rear tires on their VFRs because they are into the "wide" look. The stock advise is, of course, that it is a bad idea because our wheels are too narrow so it squeezes the tire, the clearance issues, and that it will handle like crap. It was my first instinct when clicking on this thread as well, until I read that the tire was a 209.

[image: View Post]jeremy556, on Apr 26 2009, 06:29 PM, said:

[image: View Post]cbrizzle, on Apr 26 2009, 06:39 PM, said:

[image: View Post]gr8vfr, on Apr 26 2009, 03:57 PM, said:

WHY?


If you read above, I'm only contemplating it cause it's 'free' :biggrin: I can't really sell it as a take-off cause no one wants to use a non-ntech dunlop race tire when the ntech 209's and 211's are available.

Again, my major concern is swingarm clearance. I know a 190 race tire (which are all 55's or 60's) will fit a 5.5" rim. If it ends up rubbing, I guess I will end up having a slick on the left side of my tire :laugh: jk


It is a pretty common post on this forum of people wanting to install 190/50 rear tires on their VFRs because they are into the "wide" look. The stock advise is, of course, that it is a bad idea because our wheels are too narrow so it squeezes the tire, the clearance issues, and that it will handle like crap. It was my first instinct when clicking on this thread as well, until I read that the tire was a 209.


icic. I guess there are no clearance issues when people mount 190's on 5th and 6th gen VFR's? Not that it would really apply apply to me since I have a 4th gen swingarm, just curious.

I don't know why more people don't use take-offs. Most racers sell them for under 75 bucks a set and they usually have less than a 100 miles on them! I am still able to get thousands of miles on them and they stick fine for commuting and canyon purposes and don't slide out as quickly as regular tires.

So I mounted the wheel and tire w/ the Dunlop 190/60. Fits great with plenty of clearance! Thanks all for your advice.

http://i90.photobuck...rf/IMG_0126.jpg

http://i90.photobuck...rf/IMG_0125.jpg

I still need to purchase a rear SS or kevlar line, which seems to require the rear hugger... but the stock rear hugger is so bulky and hideous!! Are there any mods or aftermarket hugger/fenders that I can purchase for a 90-97 swingarm??

Hi,

Yes you can get huggers, but before you spring for one check out the 'flipped eccentric' mod - which allows you to play with your geometry and alter rear ride height and swingarm angle of attack. A hugger on a flipped eccentric looks bad as there ends up being 30-40mm of gap between hugger and tyre.

You could run the rear brakeline inside the swingarm...

Regarding chain length - yes you do want to have the eccentric as close to the swingarm pivot as possible to take your measurements before cutting the chain.

Lots of chain, sprocket, hub info in this topic.