Time For A New Battery

YTZ12S (stock) vs. YTZ14S (ST1300 battery).

Pros and cons of each. I've giving serious thought to going to the YTZ14S for the 2 additional amps but I can't figure out how they do it with the battery actually being slightly smaller (3/4" shorter).

I know that the factories design the electrical systems to be "balanced". Will I run into any problems with running a YTZ14S. It would be nice if I had one sized battery that would fit both bikes in case of an emergency.

FWIW, there's only like $3 difference in the price of the two.

I am 99% sure that the shorter battery has been used successfully with nothing more than a spacer underneath it to keep the terminals up at the correct height.

[image: View Post]BrittC, on Oct 15 2009, 11:31 AM, said:

I am 99% sure that the shorter battery has been used successfully with nothing more than a spacer underneath it to keep the terminals up at the correct height.


+1

FYI - the rating is amp-hours and not just amps. The cold cranking amp output is different but it's much more than 2A. From the Yuasa info I have it's a difference of about 20A, the CCA for each being ~160A (YTZ12) and ~180A (YTZ14).

The 14 I bought was the same size as the 12.

Check out this ebay seller batterygeek1, he's awesome and has cheap to Yuasa. :cool:

Mr.RC45 lost 6 pounds 10 ounces with a SpeedCell battery...

SpeedCells are made using A123 cells. The constructions process is
proprietary & these packs do not require balancing. The packs are
built for motorcycle applications with cylindrical cells due to there
robust construction & discharge properties. Each PACK is made to a DoD
standard, capable of withstanding 100G load, operating temperatures of
-50*C to 49*C (-58*F to 120*F). It is important to understand that
these packs are NOT RC hobby type packs & their internal construction
as well as cell grade reflects this. Each cell is individually tested
before it makes it to the construction phase. These packs are not
Lithium ION construction. Speedcell uses Lithium Ferrous cells that
are not volatile or unstable. They will not rupture when puncture nor
produce an energy chain.

SUPERBIKE SpeedCell Specs:

- Pulse discharge @ 10 seconds = 240 Amps
- Continuous discharge (MAX) = 140 Amps
- Cycle Life (DoD spec) = 1,000 cycles

- Dimensions = 10.5cm (L) x 5cm (W) / 4.13" (L) x 1.96" (W)
- Weight = 766.57g / 1.69lbs
- Rating = 4.6Ah
- Applications = Two cylinder engines 600 cc to 1000cc or 4 cylinder 750-1200cc with stock stators
as well as Triumph 675 and some singles.

SpeedCell Supplier...
http://www.motowheels.com/italian/myProduc...amp;collection=

Speed Cell size and weight comparison...
http://www.vfrdiscussion.com/forum/uploads/1248616002/gallery_3131_51_71356.jpg

Speed Cell RC45 installation
http://www.vfrdiscussion.com/forum/uploads/1248616002/gallery_3131_51_9317.jpg

Ooh! Ooh! I know the answer to all this stuff, as my battery (Koyo - cheap Chinese knockoff of a Yuasa YTX12-BS) is dying.
The reason the smaller battery has higher amp-hours and cold cranking amps (even though it's smaller) is because it's a different internal construction, and is AGM rather than normal low-maintenance. This effectively gives it a greater electrolytic surface area.
And the reason some "12's" are the same size as the "14's" is that you're talking about the YTZ12S, fitted to the 6th Gen bikes. The YTX12-BS (5th Gens) is about a half inch (for you imperialist Mrkns) taller.

I've ordered (and need to pick up today) a MotoBatt battery - it's the same size as the YTZ14-S and YTZ12-S, but is 14Ah. Dunno about the CCA figure, as it wasn't on their website, but I do know it's cheaper than other AGM batteries on the market, and in fact less than a standard Yuasa and not much more expensive than my krappy Koyo. Oh - and it has four (4!) terminals, to enable different terminal configurations to be used. I'm going to see if I can instead use it to bolt my BlueSea accessory fusebox to the additional posts.

It's also YELLOW - how freaky is that?!?

Pete,

Is your old battery fried or are you just looking for a better newer battery? The reason I'm asking is because I have a good working battery from my old 93 VFR that I am no longer using if you are interested?? I'm not sure of the brand or dimensions but can look when I get home tonight.

Regards,
Rollin

OEM battery for a '93 VFR750FP is a YTX-12BS.

Bzzzt, enzed... Before Larry's $300 battery pack came along (or was it more than that?), there were only three types of motorcycle battery (two, really), though there are half a dozen misnomers... All modern powersports (i.e., SLI, or starter-lighting-ignition) batteries are VRLA (valve-regulated lead-acid) absorbed glass mat (AGM) batteries. Older powersports batteries are lead-acid or wet-cell (you can tell because they have acid sloshing around and usually have individual caps for each cell). The other type of battery is the much misunderstood "gel" battery, which is also a type of VRLA battery, but is not an AGM.

To make things more fun, there are two types of AGM battery, the one where you add the acid from a pack and then permanently seal the cells, and the newer type that is "factory-activated" and comes charged right out of the box. Both of these (and the gel, what the hell) are known generically as "maintenance-free", bacause you never have to re-fill them. None are completely sealed, but they are often referred to as "sealed", because you never open them!

Even the Odyssey "dry cell" is really just an AGM battery (with a better warranty--and a better marketing department).

So, modern bike = AGM battery (most likely).

Gel batteries exist, but they are not suited to SLI duties--they are deep-cycle, or deep-discharge, batteries must often used in uninterruptable power supplies and alarm systems (and, I suppose, boats and motor homes--but not in motorcycle sizes!)

So, veering back to the topic: why are the YTZ batteries more powerful than similarly sized YTX batteries, if the only difference is that the latter are factory sealed AGM batteries and the former are not? I have no idea! :blush: They just are. Perhaps the best explanation is that as time goes on, technology improves, but it rarely revolutionises...

Ciao,

[image: View Post]JZH, on Oct 16 2009, 11:11 AM, said:

So, veering back to the topic: why are the YTZ batteries more powerful than similarly sized YTX batteries, if the only difference is that the latter are factory sealed AGM batteries and the former are not? I have no idea! :blush: They just are. Perhaps the best explanation is that as time goes on, technology improves, but it rarely revolutionises...
I think you had that back to front, JZH. From the digging I did (on the Yuasa website), it seems the YTX ones are just of the "add acid and plug'em" variety, whereas the YTZ are factory sealed. But you are right - they are both AGM batteries. I think the difference must be in internal materials, which explains the higher output (but only to a limited extent, the price difference).
In NZ, the YTX12-BS (10Ah) is NZ$128, the YTZ12S (11Ah) is NZ$284, and the YTZ14S (11.2Ah) is over $300.

The MotoBatt is 14Ah, and NZ$108, and is also a factory-sealed AGM battery. Strangely, the MotoBatt version of the YTZ14S is only 10Ah, and only $86, so I think someone screwed up and got the numbers back to front. Hopefully, I am actually getting the 14Ah model.

Apart from my VF500 battery back in the mid '90s (which had caps you could unscrew to measure SG and top up with distilled water), all my batteries since have been of the "add acid and plug'em" variety, including my Koyo (which seemed to be a bit short of acid, and also had unequal quantities of this, due to crappy QC). However, I think the Koyo is what Yuasa call a "conventional" battery.

Rollin:

I appreciate the offer but figured I would go ahead and get a new Yuasa YTZ-14S (AGM). It will fit both my VFR and my ST1300.

I hate to say it, but will all of the electronics, if you let a modern Japanese bike sit for any period of time, the electronics put a minute, but continuous load on the battery. It doesn't take long and the battery is a goner. My KTM, which has no clock or computer odometer, can sit for 6 months, put a Battery Tender Jr on it for an hour and it's ready to go. I've still have the original battery in it.

I've been so involved with my KTM this year I have neglected to keep a charger on the VFR and now I'm paying the price.

Live and learn. I have charger leads hardwired into every motorcycle I own. I just get lazy and forget to get a charger out and plug it up. Guess now that the weather is turning cool and the grass/leaves are turning, it's time to hardwire a charger connection to my wife's Jane Deere and keep it on charge over the winter. It has an electronic hour meter that I know puts a drain on it's battery also.

Just trying to figure out if I'm going to make the 3/4" spacer from neoprene or Delrin. Just checked the price, 3/4" thick neoprene it will be.

Pete

[image: View Post]Baileyrock, on Oct 15 2009, 02:42 PM, said:

Check out this ebay seller batterygeek1, he's awesome and has cheap to Yuasa. :cool:

It's alive!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :happy:

Glad to see you spending your time constructively! You can't spend all your time on porn sites - even that get's old after a while.

The tribe has missed you.

BTW, did they use red or blue Loctite on your hardware?

Good to see you posting again Kevin. :happy:

[image: View Post]Pete McCrary, on Oct 15 2009, 10:24 AM, said:

YTZ12S (stock) vs. YTZ14S (ST1300 battery).

Pros and cons of each. I've giving serious thought to going to the YTZ14S for the 2 additional amps but I can't figure out how they do it with the battery actually being slightly smaller (3/4" shorter).

I know that the factories design the electrical systems to be "balanced". Will I run into any problems with running a YTZ14S. It would be nice if I had one sized battery that would fit both bikes in case of an emergency.

FWIW, there's only like $3 difference in the price of the two.

You must be looking at generic, the 12 and the 14 in yuasa are indentical in size , cant guarantee the generic, but there is more like a 20 dollar difference, 3 dollars doesnt sound right at all

[image: View Post]spud786, on Oct 15 2009, 11:14 PM, said:

[image: View Post]Pete McCrary, on Oct 15 2009, 10:24 AM, said:

YTZ12S (stock) vs. YTZ14S (ST1300 battery).

Pros and cons of each. I've giving serious thought to going to the YTZ14S for the 2 additional amps but I can't figure out how they do it with the battery actually being slightly smaller (3/4" shorter).

I know that the factories design the electrical systems to be "balanced". Will I run into any problems with running a YTZ14S. It would be nice if I had one sized battery that would fit both bikes in case of an emergency.

FWIW, there's only like $3 difference in the price of the two.

You must be looking at generic, the 12 and the 14 in yuasa are indentical in size , cant guarantee the generic, but there is more like a 20 dollar difference, 3 dollars doesnt sound right at all


No, they were both Yuasa AGM-SLA batteries. Batteryweb.com lists the YTZ-12S at $126 and the YTZ-14S at $128.

I didn't check the dimensions. I was just going by what every body on the site says.

Edit: I went to Batteryweb.com and they are the same size battery: 6.0" x 3.4" x 4.3".

its in error, I have the ytz14s ,and its indentical in size

heres a link check the specs indentical on both ytz12s and ytz14s
http://www.yuasabatteries.com/battery.php?...178&vID=638

CCA difference is 210 for the ytz12s and 230 for the ytz14s.


It's a direct fit into the VTEC models, the only time the higher rated battery will need a spacer underneath is in a 5th gen, not sure about the earlier 750s though, sry.


Any time you can fit a battery in with more cranking amps and reserve capacity, that's a good thing out on the road.

[image: View Post]JZH, on Oct 15 2009, 03:11 PM, said:

Bzzzt, enzed... Before Larry's $300 battery pack came along (or was it more than that?),

Speed Cell is $250 + tax and shipping

2003 oem battery , never been on a battery tender before, still going strong, no problems, I am surprised.

[image: View Post]enzed_viffer, on Oct 16 2009, 12:58 AM, said:

[image: View Post]JZH, on Oct 16 2009, 11:11 AM, said:

So, veering back to the topic: why are the YTZ batteries more powerful than similarly sized YTX batteries, if the only difference is that the latter are factory sealed AGM batteries and the former are not? I have no idea! :blush: They just are. Perhaps the best explanation is that as time goes on, technology improves, but it rarely revolutionises...
I think you had that back to front, JZH. From the digging I did (on the Yuasa website), it seems the YTX ones are just of the "add acid and plug'em" variety, whereas the YTZ are factory sealed. But you are right - they are both AGM batteries. I think the difference must be in internal materials, which explains the higher output (but only to a limited extent, the price difference).
Ding ding ding! Ya got me... :blush:

AGM batteries do not like to be deeply discharged, so if you have a modern bike and don't ride it regularly, if you don't keep the battery on a float charger of some sort...
http://www.vfrdiscussion.com/forum/uploads/1236293558/gallery_362_402_46310.jpg
...the tiny drain from the bike will slowly but surely discharge it and damage it. (I'm partial to Optimates, but I use Battery Tenders in the 'States, because that's all you can get!) I'd like to claim that the photo above is a winter-storage scenario in my garage, but it is pretty much year-round these days. :(

Ciao,

[image: View Post]BusyLittleShop, on 16 October 2009 - 02:16 AM, said:

[image: View Post]JZH, on Oct 15 2009, 03:11 PM, said:

Bzzzt, enzed... Before Larry's $300 battery pack came along (or was it more than that?),

Speed Cell is $250 + tax and shipping


Half that price if you DIY! (and/or get other VFRD'ers to help you!) :fing02:

[image: View Post]SEBSPEED, on 14 December 2009 - 06:26 AM, said:

[image: View Post]BusyLittleShop, on 16 October 2009 - 02:16 AM, said:

[image: View Post]JZH, on Oct 15 2009, 03:11 PM, said:

Bzzzt, enzed... Before Larry's $300 battery pack came along (or was it more than that?),

Speed Cell is $250 + tax and shipping


Half that price if you DIY! (and/or get other VFRD'ers to help you!) :fing02:


Is there a thread on this? Or is this something you're going to introduce to us? :biggrin:

[image: View Post]Hobie1dog, on 14 December 2009 - 10:18 AM, said:

[image: View Post]SEBSPEED, on 14 December 2009 - 06:26 AM, said:

[image: View Post]BusyLittleShop, on 16 October 2009 - 02:16 AM, said:

[image: View Post]JZH, on Oct 15 2009, 03:11 PM, said:

Bzzzt, enzed... Before Larry's $300 battery pack came along (or was it more than that?),

Speed Cell is $250 + tax and shipping


Half that price if you DIY! (and/or get other VFRD'ers to help you!) :fing02:


Is there a thread on this? Or is this something you're going to introduce to us? :biggrin:


Flyguyeddie & I had a collaboration with Frodus a while back(the E-VFR guy). I'm just now getting around to installing some Anderson connectors and getting ready to fire a bike up. I can tell you that what they claim about shelf life is true - this battery has been here for months untouched and I just used it to test a projector headlight; very bright!

[image: View Post]SEBSPEED, on 14 December 2009 - 10:38 AM, said:

[image: View Post]Hobie1dog, on 14 December 2009 - 10:18 AM, said:

[image: View Post]SEBSPEED, on 14 December 2009 - 06:26 AM, said:

[image: View Post]BusyLittleShop, on 16 October 2009 - 02:16 AM, said:

[image: View Post]JZH, on Oct 15 2009, 03:11 PM, said:

Bzzzt, enzed... Before Larry's $300 battery pack came along (or was it more than that?),

Speed Cell is $250 + tax and shipping


Half that price if you DIY! (and/or get other VFRD'ers to help you!) :fing02:


Is there a thread on this? Or is this something you're going to introduce to us? :biggrin:


Flyguyeddie & I had a collaboration with Frodus a while back(the E-VFR guy). I'm just now getting around to installing some Anderson connectors and getting ready to fire a bike up. I can tell you that what they claim about shelf life is true - this battery has been here for months untouched and I just used it to test a projector headlight; very bright!

Mysteriouser and mysteriouser... :happy:

Ciao,