After 37K trouble free miles on my 2006 Honda VFR800 ABS Interceptor my luck changed last week on the commute home from work. Bike began losing power and making a strange noise popping sound I pulled immediately over to the side of the road to risk furthering any damage. I tried restarting the bike the battery just clicked and the clock started blinking and reset itself at 1AM.
Ok so I call AAA and had the bike flat bedded to the local Honda dealer their first reaction was it sounded like a stator problem. Then the phone call the following day the service manager said I have bad news for you the bike suffered catastrophic engine failure that the front left piston melted the spark plug and connector. Ok I'm kind of in shock now. I bought the bike used in 2007 with 340 miles on the odometer I remembered thinking I remember doing the transfer for the extended warranty sure enough I checked my paperwork and I did the bike is covered till September 2011.
Now the fun begins I call the Honda dealer and tell them I have the extended warranty they tell me that's great but I need to spend $640.00 to have them pull the motor and diagnose what caused the failure. I checked with the warranty company and they tell me that's right and they will send an adjuster to the Honda dealer to gather the required information to make a decision on the claim and if the claim is granted I would be reinbursed for the $640.00 labor if it rejected I am out the $640.00 not much I could really do at that point so I authorized the break down of the motor.
The results from the Honda dealer were inconclusive they couldn't find a part failure that caused the problem they supposedly checked everything from Oil levels to spark plugs...etc. They believe it was some condition that caused detonation. That is not good news for me the warranty company will cover the bike if it's a part failure and I don't seem to have one so I'm still waiting for the warranty company to make a decision on my claim. I hope they cover it but from what the Honda dealer is telling me I shouldn't hold my breath.
In the end if it's covered that would be great if it's not I have to decide what to do with the bike. The Honda dealer wants way to much money 5K or there abouts I was quoted to rebuild it so that is not an option. I could get a used motor and have installed by an independent mechanic how much would that be ? or just try and sell the bike sans the engine and buy something else. What's the bike worth without an engine ? The realistic street value of the bike is no more then 5K so I'm not sure what I am going to do. Any thoughts would be appreciated.
I don't really understand the diagnosis. Sounds to me that you would need a new spark plug and wire, not a new engine? Did it eat the rings and score up the cylinder walls? Head and valves damaged?
I can't imagine what they would do for %5k. Sounds like a price for a brand new motor.
Buy a wrecked Vtec, and swap motors. You won't get much parting out or selling a rolling chassis sans engine.
I'd find a good local indie shop to do it, not the dealer. But, that's just me and my prejudices. Actually get a second opinion if no warranty money is coming in.
[image: View Post]KPerham, on 16 November 2009 - 01:07 PM, said:
I don't really understand the diagnosis. Sounds to me that you would need a new spark plug and wire, not a new engine? Did it eat the rings and score up the cylinder walls? Head and valves damaged?
I can't imagine what they would do for %5k. Sounds like a price for a brand new motor.
Buy a wrecked Vtec, and swap motors. You won't get much parting out or selling a rolling chassis sans engine.
I'd find a good local indie shop to do it, not the dealer. But, that's just me and my prejudices. Actually get a second opinion if no warranty money is coming in.
Sorry I didn't post the results of the motor teardown. The top of the pistion was blown off and the cylinder was scored.
This just does not make any sense... obviously there is a part failure or this would not have happened. I cannot imagie how one cylinder would be destroyed and not any of the others. Maybe if that cylinder was running so lean that it melted the sparkplug and destroyed the piston/cylinder. Something is not adding up and I think you should look into a second opinion as well. Good Luck and let us know what you find out!!
[image: View Post]EJS4029, on 16 November 2009 - 01:47 PM, said:
After 37K trouble free miles on my 2006 Honda VFR800 ABS Interceptor my luck changed last week on the commute home from work.
I bought the bike used in 2007 with 340 miles on the odometer I remembered thinking I remember doing the transfer for the extended warranty sure enough I checked my paperwork and I did the bike is covered [b]till September 2009[/b].
Unless I'm miss understanding, your warranty coverage expired weeks ago. :warranty:
Get a copy of the contract for the extended warranty, look it over, and have a lawyer look it over. I don't know about aftermarket warranties, but that shit would never fly for a manufacturer's warranty.
If you are on the hook, just buy a used VTec motor for a few hundred bucks (I think TinyMinds has one for sale) and have it installed.
[image: View Post]crazybrother, on 16 November 2009 - 01:36 PM, said:
Did you have the Honda Factory warranty or some private co? Anyway I would fight it. If they won't cover it, then take it to court.
No It was a private companies warranty (Western Service Contract) The Honda dealer said it looks like it may have been caused by a lean condition if so I'm being told it's not likely the warranty company will authorize the claim then because a part didn't fail atleast that is what the Honda dealer is telling me. I really can't jump to conclusions as I am still waiting for the warranty company to make it's decision. Something caused the engine to fail if it was a lean condition would a part cause that ?
[image: View Post]FotoMoto, on 16 November 2009 - 01:57 PM, said:
[image: View Post]EJS4029, on 16 November 2009 - 01:47 PM, said:
After 37K trouble free miles on my 2006 Honda VFR800 ABS Interceptor my luck changed last week on the commute home from work.
I bought the bike used in 2007 with 340 miles on the odometer I remembered thinking I remember doing the transfer for the extended warranty sure enough I checked my paperwork and I did the bike is covered [b]till September 2009[/b].
Unless I'm miss understanding, your warranty coverage expired weeks ago. :warranty:
Sorry that was a typo it expires in September of 2011
[image: View Post]EJS4029, on 16 November 2009 - 04:00 PM, said:
[image: View Post]crazybrother, on 16 November 2009 - 01:36 PM, said:
Did you have the Honda Factory warranty or some private co? Anyway I would fight it. If they won't cover it, then take it to court.
No It was a private companies warranty (Western Service Contract) The Honda dealer said it looks like it may have been caused by a lean condition if so I'm being told it's not likely the warranty company will authorize the claim then because a part didn't fail atleast that is what the Honda dealer is telling me. I really can't jump to conclusions as I am still waiting for the warranty company to make it's decision. Something caused the engine to fail if it was a lean condition would a part cause that ?
ECU or injector?
Sorry for your misfortune! This is the first engine failure I've ever heard of!!! :unsure:
Seems that your Dealer falls in in with the majority of them as in "THEY SUCK!!!" :mad:
Their diagnosis is worthless, the piston failed! Why they don't know and that is what they should be telling the warranty folks. Ask the A-holes if the piston failed! If the top can off it or it came apart it failed, that's it black & white and there would be No question from the warranty people! Never deal with these clowns again, period! :mad:
What the warranty folks do is require a part failure because otherwise they would get millions of claims for smoking, noisy or other wore out engines that still ran. Your engine failed period, what failed? the piston! Done deal.
If you have to ask a lawyer to write a letter to either of both the Dealer & Warranty company. There should be no reason you should not be covered here, tell the dealer you'll sue their azzes off for their inability to know that a blown piston is a failed part and that you would like the red 2010 VFR as part of the settlement. ;p
If for some reason it doesn't work out for you(shouldn't happen), then just spend $500 on a used engine and have some buddies help you swap it out!
[image: View Post]Baileyrock, on 16 November 2009 - 04:03 PM, said:
Sorry for your misfortune! This is the first engine failure I've ever heard of!!! :unsure:
Seems that your Dealer falls in in with the majority of them as in "THEY SUCK!!!" :mad:
Their diagnosis is worthless, the piston failed! Why they don't know and that is what they should be telling the warranty folks. Ask the A-holes if the piston failed! If the top can off it or it came apart it failed, that's it black & white and there would be No question from the warranty people! Never deal with these clowns again, period! :mad:
What the warranty folks do is require a part failure because otherwise they would get millions of claims for smoking, noisy or other wore out engines that still ran. Your engine failed period, what failed? the piston! Done deal.
If you have to ask a lawyer to write a letter to either of both the Dealer & Warranty company. There should be no reason you should not be covered here, tell the dealer you'll sue their azzes off for their inability to know that a blown piston is a failed part and that you would like the red 2010 VFR as part of the settlement. ;p
If for some reason it doesn't work out for you(shouldn't happen), then just spend $500 on a used engine and have some buddies help you swap it out!
[image: View Post]EJS4029, on 16 November 2009 - 03:00 PM, said:
[image: View Post]crazybrother, on 16 November 2009 - 01:36 PM, said:
Did you have the Honda Factory warranty or some private co? Anyway I would fight it. If they won't cover it, then take it to court.
No It was a private companies warranty (Western Service Contract) The Honda dealer said it looks like it may have been caused by a lean condition if so I'm being told it's not likely the warranty company will authorize the claim then because a part didn't fail atleast that is what the Honda dealer is telling me. I really can't jump to conclusions as I am still waiting for the warranty company to make it's decision. Something caused the engine to fail if it was a lean condition would a part cause that ?
What part didn't fail??? "a part didn't fail at least that is what the Honda dealer is telling me" You did say the top came off the piston didn't you? :unsure:
Who cares what caused the PISTON to fail, it failed! Because it was hot/cold or whatever, it failed. that is all the warranty co. needs to hear.
[image: View Post]KPerham, on 16 November 2009 - 04:05 PM, said:
[image: View Post]Baileyrock, on 16 November 2009 - 04:03 PM, said:
Sorry for your misfortune! This is the first engine failure I've ever heard of!!! :unsure:
Seems that your Dealer falls in in with the majority of them as in "THEY SUCK!!!" :mad:
Their diagnosis is worthless, the piston failed! Why they don't know and that is what they should be telling the warranty folks. Ask the A-holes if the piston failed! If the top can off it or it came apart it failed, that's it black & white and there would be No question from the warranty people! Never deal with these clowns again, period! :mad:
What the warranty folks do is require a part failure because otherwise they would get millions of claims for smoking, noisy or other wore out engines that still ran. Your engine failed period, what failed? the piston! Done deal.
If you have to ask a lawyer to write a letter to either of both the Dealer & Warranty company. There should be no reason you should not be covered here, tell the dealer you'll sue their azzes off for their inability to know that a blown piston is a failed part and that you would like the red 2010 VFR as part of the settlement. ;p
If for some reason it doesn't work out for you(shouldn't happen), then just spend $500 on a used engine and have some buddies help you swap it out!
[image: View Post]EJS4029, on 16 November 2009 - 01:00 PM, said:
[image: View Post]crazybrother, on 16 November 2009 - 01:36 PM, said:
Did you have the Honda Factory warranty or some private co? Anyway I would fight it. If they won't cover it, then take it to court.
No It was a private companies warranty (Western Service Contract) The Honda dealer said it looks like it may have been caused by a lean condition if so I'm being told it's not likely the warranty company will authorize the claim then because a part didn't fail atleast that is what the Honda dealer is telling me. I really can't jump to conclusions as I am still waiting for the warranty company to make it's decision. Something caused the engine to fail if it was a lean condition would a part cause that ?
How is this not a failure by some part?!? Wow! This is mind boggling. You didn't change the mix, did you? You can't do that, so something failed, and it should be covered!!
Good luck!
C
PS Like some have suggested, swap engines with another one.
[image: View Post]EJS4029, on 16 November 2009 - 04:00 PM, said:
[image: View Post]crazybrother, on 16 November 2009 - 01:36 PM, said:
Did you have the Honda Factory warranty or some private co? Anyway I would fight it. If they won't cover it, then take it to court.
No It was a private companies warranty (Western Service Contract) The Honda dealer said it looks like it may have been caused by a lean condition if so I'm being told it's not likely the warranty company will authorize the claim then because a part didn't fail atleast that is what the Honda dealer is telling me. I really can't jump to conclusions as I am still waiting for the warranty company to make it's decision. Something caused the engine to fail if it was a lean condition would a part cause that ?
Make it's decision? There's no decision to be made. Piston failure due to fuel injection failure or whatever caused it. Part failure = gimme my money
It sounds to me that you have not only a problem with the bike but with the warranty company to boot. I wouldn't be overly surprised if the warranty company is in the crib with the dealer also.
This is one of the reasons I personally have a problem with the warranty companies. I have a hard time believing they just pay out as easily as they say they do and will look for any excuse to hold back the bucks.
Good luck with your situation and don't take no for an answer.
Don't forget to tell them of the multiple internet boards you are on and how closely they are following this plight.
I agree from the standpoint of the piston needing a little 'help' from something(s) else to go boom. And, like Kevin, I have NEVER heard of a 6th gen. blowing before...... :blink:
Tinyminds would be someone most of us here would trust, should you need to get an engine :+1: . I just wonder if there's any difference in the engine from 02-05 and 06 and up. :unsure:
Basically, non-factory warranties are a profit center for dealerships. :warranty:
Sometimes for example, maybe they'll pay for the specific part, but the customer will pay to get at it, and all the gaskets, fluids, parts, labor, etc. to put it back together. :mad: Any combination of scenarioes could end up rendering: that the best thing about extended warranties, is the paper it was written on, before they wrecked it by using it! :pissed:
My opinion is based on being in both the Honda car and bike business, back in the day. :blush:
A thorough reading of the contract is mandatory at this point, by you and/or your solicitor. Also, if they ask for a signature for a document, I would definately say "I'd like to show it to my lawyer first" :idea3:
FWIW, I wonder what information public relations at Honda would have about blowing 800's and possibly what areas to explore to find the answer... :dry:
Welcome, and we're all waiting, BTW!
Greg :fing02:
These warranty companies will do anything to avoid having to pay a claim. You're lucky they even still exist, some of them just disappear after they get your money. You deserve to get it paid on, but whether you'll ever be successful, who knows.
If you don't get it paid on, but the bike is in good cosmetic shape, you're in better shape than someone who has wrecked their bike - most salvage bikes have front end damage and plastic damage, so you will find it easier to get good used replacements to fix it, than other folks would. But I would investigate exactly what caused the lean condition - if you have a faulty injector or a bad ECU, and you don't fix it before you replace the engine, you could end up destroying a second engine. If you can't find the fundamental cause, you might be better off just selling the plastics, instruments, front end, wheels, etc, on eBay, and use the money towards your next bike.
I agree...I wouldn't let them tell me a part didn't fail. I would also find a friendly attorney to write a letter for you, and take them to court if needed. If the piston failed because of a lean mixture the other parts of the motor would show a lean condition also...and that means that the injectors or sensors failed to deliver the right amount of fuel...so there is your "failed" part.
I actually like dealing with these people because I can take my inner aggression out on them....when you are right you are right!
Did you take it to dealer of purchase you bought the warranty from?
I had a zero warranty deductable, only thing I had to pay for was oil on my stator failure, a covered item under extended warranty.
Anyway, after all is said and done, I go to get the bike and they want $220, because the warrnty didnt cover. I said then you need to go back to them for the money, cause you sold me the zero deductable warranty. Plus you owe me $50 for the tow also covered. They recalculated and now I owe $118 , HE HE yeh we not done yet
I walked paying no money other than oil and they sent me a check in the mail for the tow minus the oil cost , after I started going up the chain of command looking for answers.
Dont buy an extended warranty and expect to use it anywhere else than dealer of purchase, you'd be lucky if any where else accepted it at all, many wont.
But thats a solid claim IMo, they should cover, I use the same warrnty company
[image: View Post]Tightwad, on 16 November 2009 - 06:55 PM, said:
I agree...I wouldn't let them tell me a part didn't fail. I would also find a friendly attorney to write a letter for you, and take them to court if needed. If the piston failed because of a lean mixture the other parts of the motor would show a lean condition also...and that means that the injectors or sensors failed to deliver the right amount of fuel...so there is your "failed" part.
I actually like dealing with these people because I can take my inner aggression out on them....when you are right you are right!
A lean condition doesn't just "happen", it's caused by something.
Maybe the injector was not sending enough fuel to that cylinder. So the injector FAILED. Then the piston FAILED.
To me, that constitutes FAILURE.
Go get 'em.
And if you finally arrive at the point where there is no love forthcoming from the warranty company, get yourself a used engine and chuck it in the frame and go ride!
I'm sure someone here will have an engine, or EBAY.
Do not accept NO for an answer here. Everyone is correct - part failed and there were no user items involved. Oil and Coolant fine. No over revs - the ECU can track that. Remember, Warranty (Insurance) companies are in the business of collecting premiums, NOT paying claims so you will have to lever the money out of their hot tight little hands. As a former employee of the evil insurance empire I know this first hand. If claims are denied, the weak will go away and then you really only have to pay a small fraction of the legitimate claims you are presented with. The fact that dealer is being non-committal is not helping your claim. Go speak with the Shop manager, be calm and logical about it. You are a "friend" just trying to understand what happened to your beloved Honda. Go over each fact related to the engine failure and that should bring him to the conclusion that you did nothing to cause it and some part failed - like the piston - though he may likely try to blame the spark plug if he has a relationship with this warranty company.(The engine in it's entirety is not a "part") During your pleasant conversation with him/her try and gather information on how often they have to deal with this warranty company so you can learn how close they might be. If you cover each fact one by one and they point to a part failure then the manager will change their mind on their own rather than trying to accomplish a mind change via an argument. Only threaten when you have received a "Final answer" that is a NO. Once you threaten you will have closed every possibility of settlement with them. Good luck.
Also, you have to think like those weasles. If you have a power commander affixed my advice is to stealthily replace it with the stock unit. Although we all know it is BS, one of the bean counters could say that a non-warrantied and non stock part could have caused the lean condition.
Reminds me of back in the 80's, my brand new RZ350 was pouring gas out of the carbs and I couldnt fix it. The dealer refused to fix it because the warranty was for "Lubricated parts only". I pointed out that the RZ is a two stroke with an oil injector and thus, the carbs were a lubricated part. They fixed it.
[image: View Post]CrazyInNYC, on 18 November 2009 - 08:40 PM, said:
[image: View Post]soichiro, on 18 November 2009 - 05:02 PM, said:
That is strange. This is only the second vfr engine failure I have heard of. The first one the rider didnt maintain his bike, so it was his fault.
[snip]
Please elaborate
This engine failure and one other. The other one the guy was low on cooant with no oil, he killed it, it wasnt the bikes fault. VFR motors are near bulletproof.
IMHO, as a honda tech is that detonation, Pre-ignition, caused the problem, why? I dont know.
After being a tech for too many years the diagnosis is wrong .A spark plug is not built that strong to withstand cylinder pressures for that long if cracked or damaged,it will come apart rather than allow this meltdown to happen .If possible could you get some quality pictures as they will tell a lot about what happened . I know thta here in the great white north that any time I have had to go to court the shop is responsible to prove that the owner caused the problem and then most times it was still covered for some reason. Had a jeep submerged in water for a week and the judge declared jeep must put a new motor in it as it was designed for driving off road and water(lakes ) are off road.
[image: View Post]Baileyrock, on 20 November 2009 - 01:13 PM, said:
[image: View Post]coderighter, on 20 November 2009 - 12:11 PM, said:
Speed sensor wiring is the same. The ECU just handles the info different.
I've been studying the wiring between years (for a different reason) and there is a lot of differences through the years but none that I can see would have to do with the engines connections. The engine itself has very few connections to the bike, if you don't count the throttle body.
I would say a '02-'09 should work with little to no problem.
Where/how does the 06-up know what gear the bike is in? That is/what I thought might be the only difference because I have no idea how it was done! :blush:
Starting in '06 the ECU compares the VSS sensor output to engine RPM, does the math and figures which gear you're in. Using that info, it alters the fuel mapping accordingly. This was mostly for emissions reasons. It makes it easier to pass cruise emissions without screwing up ride-ability (anymore than it already was). If you really want to screw things up, add a speed correction device to the VSS signal before it gets to the ECU and see what happens! Voice of experience here.
End of thread · 33 posts recoveredWayback Machine snapshot 12 Apr 2010