Repainting my bike

[image: View Post]SEBSPEED, on 15 February 2010 - 07:43 AM, said:

Not fiberglass cloth - you want the mesh sheetrock tape, yes the stuff you use on drywall. That works well with glue, or use fine stainless steel mesh with your plastic welder.

It is important to note that I am using ABS rods to weld in the dumbo plates and glued it with abs plastic glue, the kind im using is simply black abs resin disolved in acetone and Methyl Ethyl Ketone, so its all the same stuff once the solvents evaporate and it dries as solid abs.  Rob the repair done on that bike used an epoxy that dried harder and more brittle than the surrounding abs, mixing media can have bad consequences, I am using nothing but abs here. I removed the paint where I glued it together and also where I welded it in.

http://www.oatey.com...l_us_e3_OUT.pdf

It's also important to note that the body panels on the VFR are not made strictly from ABS plastic; Honda actually uses different plastic formulations for different panels, which is why I only use Fiber Flex sticks with my plastic welder, and Norton Speed Grip for other repairs.

Fiber Flex: http://www.urethanes...refiberflex.php

Speed Grip: http://www.nortonaut...dgrip-auto.aspx

It's also important to clean the two areas being welded with rubbing alcohol before welding.

When I welded a square piece of abs I cut from the front cowl to repair the rear cowl tab I tugged in it pretty good to see it would come loose, I am pretty satisfied with the weld, I later gooped on abs glue for more reinforcement, then cut and shapped the tab to fit and then drilled it for the pin hole.
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Rear cowl holes now filled in and sanded smooth

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Right Fairing scratches filled in I went to town with the orbital sander and smoothed out the abs glue I gooped into the scratches which were now all filled in nicely

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Front cowl right side I had to go in and fill another hole with the the plastic welder then sanded it all smooth

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reinforced the back layed in another bead of abs weld rod

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left side reinforced

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filling in a large gap I noticed the signal on the left side had a significant gap where the dremel got away from me, I filled in the gaps with abs glue and I am going cut the lens out with a utility knife and then pop it out. I sprayed the signal with Pam to keep the abs glue from sticking to it - sanding it smooth tommorow - it should pop right out.

I let it dry for about 2 hours now and the abs glue is gotten pretty hard, I was able to peel it off the signal lens.  I will wait till tommorow to see about removing it and hopefully it forms a nice lip around where the lens is.  I will smooth it out and sand it flat then. I will have to give it a strait gap so that the paint does not prevent it from fitting inside, either that or I will just tape off the indented area and not paint it. Not sure we will see how it comes out tommorow.  I am removing my ohlins tommorow and putting in a piece of wood where the shock goes so I can send it for rebuild. Then I am taking a trip to the powder coaters to get my new wheels done!  Gotta take off the tires and remove the brake disc and bearings though, remove the valve stem anyway since I want to replace them with 90 degree stems.

Are you also filling the access hole underneath the headlight for the European daytime running light?

I had that done on my upper, before the crash. Will probably have it done again for the new paintjob.

You could leave it as is with all that red and black splotched everyone and create a new crave of Red/Black camo! (j/k btw)

[image: View Post]Veefer800Canuck, on 16 February 2010 - 02:07 AM, said:

Are you also filling the access hole underneath the headlight for the European daytime running light?

I had that done on my upper, before the crash. Will probably have it done again for the new paintjob.
HMM... had not thought of it? I bought a replacement panel for it, since the orginal one is somewhere in the bushes on the Black Canyon.

[image: View Post]SEBSPEED, on 15 February 2010 - 01:28 PM, said:

It's also important to note that the body panels on the VFR are not made strictly from ABS plastic; Honda actually uses different plastic formulations for different panels, which is why I only use Fiber Flex sticks with my plastic welder, and Norton Speed Grip for other repairs.

Fiber Flex: http://www.urethanes...refiberflex.php

Speed Grip: http://www.nortonaut...dgrip-auto.aspx

It's also important to clean the two areas being welded with rubbing alcohol before welding.

Yes but after sanding on it for the last 2 days I am certain its the same abs, the glue sticks to it and nothing else I sanded it like hell and it would not come off, no flaking off at all, its the same composition as the abs glue. The dumbo insert I pushed on it and proded it seeing how well the glue and weld job did, its really solid! I tried prying some of the white weld out with a screw driver and its in there really good. It would take another crash at 50mph for it to break or a tip over with the bike on it.  Radars sliders should help prevent that.

[image: View Post]Dutchy, on 25 January 2010 - 01:09 PM, said:

easy......


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Yes, this is the way I will go when its time to paint my 5th gen... whit some small detail differense thro..

One of the best looking 5th gen I know   :fing02:

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Here is someone else's 5th gen done to look like an SP2 (photo courtesy of Sebspeed):

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How abouth this but red instead of white and a white wing and wheels?

HS, don't know how much more you plan to prep on your own, but if you want to do the sealing & priming, do yourself a favor and use the good stuff - SEM products. These are professional products in a rattlecan, I've seen various cheaper brands that just flake off, or worse yet, dissolve under the new paint and bubble up/destroy a new paint job! :fing02: Look for the stuff at an autobody supply store, autobody shop, or any good auto parts store(NAPA carries it here in my area).

This stuff: http://www.autobodyt...ls-p-15358.aspx

No, it's not cheap, but this is one of those times where you have to tell yourself, "gotta pay to play". Some body shops won't touch your stuff if you've done the prep & primer, or best case, will refuse any guarantee on the paint. On the other hand, if you walk in and show them the can of SEM you used, they will be much more willing to work with you. I've been there/ done that many times, on both sides of the fence(working in a shop/bringing my parts in for paint).

I'm pretty sure all the panels have the plastic type molded in somewhere, will look like a bunch of random letters and symbols like 1234 > PP or summat.


EDIT: Before you get to that point, you'll want to use some of this(after a good alcohol wash) to get your inconsistencies and sanding scratches leveled out: http://www.autobodyt...ty-p-10969.aspx

Good stuff, leagues above Bondo. Easy to work with and sands to a very nice feather edge. Sorry if I'm rambling on & on about do this, do that, just trying to help. I can talk you through 99% of this work so if you get hung up or have a feeling there might be a better way, get in touch.

I already have the paint, I am using a catalized primer and paint combo specifically made for painting plastics, lots of solids and my gravity fed hvlp gun. 2 coats of primer, 2 coats of base, tape off for the stipes and then clear coats. This is not a rattle can paint job! Problem is its way too cold to spray - shoot even the paint stripper I got for the tank wont work at these temps. I am going to use my bike shed for a spray booth, its perfect for it it opens up in the front and back for lots of air, just wash it all down with my power sprayer then hang some plastic drop cloths, make a place for a fan and filter on the front and back door and go to town. Just doing plastic repairs now.  I spent a good couple of hours last night on it, then shifted gears and removed my ohlins shock to send out for a rebuild.  Man that thing was filthy!

I am taking my time on this project, I got a good 3 months before it gets warm enough to spray.  I am gonna have the sanding smoothed out, I spent alot on the paint and primer, reducers and catalyst.  All I can say it will look much better than it did before I got started.  Much better than it did at tmac 09!

[image: View Post]HispanicSlammer, on 16 February 2010 - 09:31 AM, said:

I already have the paint, I am using a catalized primer and paint combo specifically made for painting plastics, lots of solids and my gravity fed hvlp gun. 2 coats of primer, 2 coats of base, tape off for the stipes and then clear coats. This is not a rattle can paint job! Problem is its way too cold to spray - shoot even the paint stripper I got for the tank wont work at these temps. I am going to use my bike shed for a spray booth, its perfect for it it opens up in the front and back for lots of air, just wash it all down with my power sprayer then hang some plastic drop cloths, make a place for a fan and filter on the front and back door and go to town. Just doing plastic repairs now.  I spent a good couple of hours last night on it, then shifted gears and removed my ohlins shock to send out for a rebuild.  Man that thing was filthy!

In case there was any confusion - I wasn't implying or expecting you to spray color or clear with a spray can. Just trying to help by recommending products that I know work well - not just from my own experience, but from working hand-in-hand with pros who have 20-30 years experience on the job.

Looking forward to seeing your bike all pretty!

Looking good. :fing02:

Have you considered color matching your mirrors or gauge surround?

That guy driving the McDonalds car looks an awful lot like James Stewart?

[image: View Post]dutchinterceptor, on 16 February 2010 - 09:55 AM, said:

Looking good. :fing02:

Have you considered color matching your mirrors or gauge surround?

I have seen a gold bike that had the gauge surround painted to match it looked good, my mirrors look awful I am gonna sand and then hit them with a heat gun - maybe use the white paint on them?  I am thinking of taking off the top of the Givi and matching paint, Matching doppler radar!

In 1988-89 the VFR750 (rc24) came in RED (even mirrors and seat) whit White wheels
(not in US thro...)
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I will probably just paint the mirrors matt black and sand the scratches out of the plastic part and hit it with a heat gun.

Miguel, I want to add my two cents worth. I know that you are very capable of doing this on your own, I just want to point out some things incase you don't know. First, I believe I used the Hotbodies turn signals on the front of my cbr. They blink rapidly without the resistor that is sold for led's. Second, all urethane paints need to be at least 60 degrees for 24 hours to catalyze. All single stage fades. Base and clear is the best way for long life. I hope you are aware of how dangerous isocyanates are. I own a forced air respirator because of that. Last, I like the stripe down the middle scheme. The Ducatis and Suzuki sv's with that remind me of Triumphs and the cars from the 60's. If I can be of assistance, please ask.

RE: Led's, you can also use a flasher that blinks correctly for LED's instead of splicing in a resistor on each side.

I'm sure Miggy has a handle on that, but for anyone else following the thread, there ya go.

I have a self canceling kisan turn electronic unit that replaced the oem relay, it will drive the singnals at the proper speed.  You know some manufactures are now making the pulse higher on purpose to attract more attention to the rider and the bike now, the new R1 for instance.

As far as the paint job goes I am just giving the facts - its too cold to paint right now.  I ordered some poly-flex filler, it came in the mail a few days ago but they did not pack the hardener with it?  So I emailed them and they are sending out the hardener seperately. I bought some 190 micron strainers, whole box of them, that I wont use all of, probably put the bulk of the remainder in the pay it forward forum for all you painters out there.  There is no spray booth for me to rent - well that will let me due to insurance reasons that are close, I tried so its a do it in the shed job.  I dont have a self contained resperator with its own air supply but I have a darned good chemical respirator, same as the ones we use at work for handling hot act solvent fumes for metal etch resist removal on silicon chips.  The shed is open on both ends with big doors its like a wind tunnel in there with the doors open, and I can hang the pieces from the ceiling rafters.

I am concerned about setting up the sprayer with the correct air pressure, not over doing the spray so that I have drips or orange peel results.  I dont like sanding so much, thats my weak point. Thats why I gave my self a good couple of months on this job to get all the prep work done.


I found my oil leak on the stator cover, it was a hairline crack and not the gasket. It was so slight I could not see it but its there and oil was comming out of it.  Must have cracked it when I took my Kansas mud slide? dont know?  Ordered a new one since the cover looks like hell as it is, 125k of wind blast and road rash.

[image: View Post]HispanicSlammer, on 28 February 2010 - 09:36 PM, said:

I have a self canceling kisan turn electronic unit that replaced the oem relay, it will drive the singnals at the proper speed.  You know some manufactures are now making the pulse higher on purpose to attract more attention to the rider and the bike now, the new R1 for instance.

As far as the paint job goes I am just giving the facts - its too cold to paint right now.  I ordered some poly-flex filler, it came in the mail a few days ago but they did not pack the hardener with it?  So I emailed them and they are sending out the hardener seperately. I bought some 190 micron strainers, whole box of them, that I wont use all of, probably put the bulk of the remainder in the pay it forward forum for all you painters out there.  There is no spray booth for me to rent - well that will let me due to insurance reasons that are close, I tried so its a do it in the shed job.  I dont have a self contained resperator with its own air supply but I have a darned good chemical respirator, same as the ones we use at work for handling hot act solvent fumes for metal etch resist removal on silicon chips.  The shed is open on both ends with big doors its like a wind tunnel in there with the doors open, and I can hang the pieces from the ceiling rafters.

I am concerned about setting up the sprayer with the correct air pressure, not over doing the spray so that I have drips or orange peel results.  I dont like sanding so much, thats my weak point. Thats why I gave my self a good couple of months on this job to get all the prep work done.


I found my oil leak on the stator cover, it was a hairline crack and not the gasket. It was so slight I could not see it but its there and oil was comming out of it.  Must have cracked it when I took my Kansas mud slide? dont know?  Ordered a new one since the cover looks like hell as it is, 125k of wind blast and road rash.

I don't want to smother you with more posts after the many I already made here - just want to add that you should make sure your respirator cartridges will filter the paint. There are different cartridges for different applications, 3M makes good ones. Get a spare bunny suit from work for when you paint, if you can. If not, cover as much skin as you can. I am not a good example of this, but ATGATT applies to more than biking.

Also, use your air gun a few days before you're ready to paint, and blow off the walls & ceiling of your shed to get rid of as much dust as you can. Then, right before you paint, spray the whole place down with a garden hose(as much as you can). You want to keep wind & dust away from your wet parts.

Check out autobody101 forums for some DIY set up ideas. It is possible to get nice results with good prep. Spraying is the easiest part.

Hope you get a top notch result after all the work, Miguel.   :goofy:
Reminds me why the last time I painted a bike over 20 years ago, I decided to never do that again. The prep work seems endless, but it's crucial to getting a good or even half decent result. Unless you're using rattle can flat black truck bed liner. :goofy:

You can also shoot a shoddy old test-piece before you hit the good panels with some colour!

See how it turns out.

HS, I am a physician and have also repaired and sprayed out my VFR "Louise" that you saw, plus I did my CBR RR in the Colin Edward wings scheme. I am real DIY-McGuyver, too, so all is possible on a good plan without kilobucks being spent.

What is not optional is that isocyanates in catalyzed paints cannot be filtered out by masks of any kind. They come through as a gas  that sensitizes the inside of the lungs to react in a way  that causes spontaneous scar tissue to develop. It does not cause any immediate symptoms, so may be very misleading in that no apparent harm seems to happen when you are exposed. There is a safe way around this.

Buy a 20ft length of pool pump corrugated 1 1/4" hose from Lowes ( I paid $20.00) and hook it up with aluminum duct tape to the outlet of a $13  bathroom exhuast fan that set up well away from your paint shop. Take a facemask filter respirator like you have and block off one of the filters. Replace the other filter with a disk of thin metal and connect  a PVC elbow through it so it swivels (use a drilled out pipe plug to trap the metal disk to the elbow). Hook the tubing to the elbow and you now have a good supply of fresh air. The exhalation valve functions normally. Wear eye pro and a poopy suit, gloves, head sock and you will be good. The rig must never allow  you to smell vapors when in use. That is a good test.
The catalyzed paints flash off and set so fast at warmer temps that very little dust or insect issue arise. You can fine polish out small surface problems if they are seen.

[image: View Post]JETS, on 01 March 2010 - 02:43 PM, said:

HS, I am a physician and have also repaired and sprayed out my VFR "Louise" that you saw, plus I did my CBR RR in the Colin Edward wings scheme. I am real DIY-McGuyver, too, so all is possible on a good plan without kilobucks being spent.

What is not optional is that isocyanates in catalyzed paints cannot be filtered out by masks of any kind. They come through as a gas  that sensitizes the inside of the lungs to react in a way  that causes spontaneous scar tissue to develop. It does not cause any immediate symptoms, so may be very misleading in that no apparent harm seems to happen when you are exposed. There is a safe way around this.

Buy a 20ft length of pool pump corrugated 1 1/4" hose from Lowes ( I paid $20.00) and hook it up with aluminum duct tape to the outlet of a $13  bathroom exhuast fan that set up well away from your paint shop. Take a facemask filter respirator like you have and block off one of the filters. Replace the other filter with a disk of thin metal and connect  a PVC elbow through it so it swivels (use a drilled out pipe plug to trap the metal disk to the elbow). Hook the tubing to the elbow and you now have a good supply of fresh air. The exhalation valve functions normally. Wear eye pro and a poopy suit, gloves, head sock and you will be good. The rig must never allow  you to smell vapors when in use. That is a good test.
The catalyzed paints flash off and set so fast at warmer temps that very little dust or insect issue arise. You can fine polish out small surface problems if they are seen.



Thanks I will look into that, perhaps a picture of your fresh air setup if you got one, I am very curious to see that!  Seb I am going to power wash the whole area with my power washer, the whole thing before I start.  I have some old pieces I am going to test spray on, the piece that I took the doner panels out of to dedumbo, never done a spray job.  Definitly reading up alot, bought a couple of books too.  I am wondering what masking tape works the best for lines or should I just order some vinyle stripes.  I was going to just tape off one big 4 inch stripe and put a small tape down the center to make two stripes mustang style?  My dedumbo job is starting to look good, need to fill some holes, little pin holes where the abs bubbled when I welded it.  Then sand the shit out of it till its smooth very very smooth.

I'll shoot pix of air mask and post. The easy removal smooth blue painters tape has done well for me. Allow "Tape time" quoted on paint maufacturers data sheets (internet)before applying. Stripes and parting lines are available on-line and can be clear coated. Be sure to peel off the topping of clear film from decals, striping tapes, etc. once they are applied. Tapeworks and xtremedecals sold me good quality materials. Tapeworks will cut a sheet of lines or ribbons in any colors. Stripeman.com has the parting lines and various line combinations. Really the only limit is your imagination.

[image: View Post]HispanicSlammer, on 02 March 2010 - 12:35 AM, said:

Thanks I will look into that, perhaps a picture of your fresh air setup if you got one, I am very curious to see that!  Seb I am going to power wash the whole area with my power washer, the whole thing before I start.  I have some old pieces I am going to test spray on, the piece that I took the doner panels out of to dedumbo, never done a spray job.  Definitly reading up alot, bought a couple of books too.  I am wondering what masking tape works the best for lines or should I just order some vinyle stripes.  I was going to just tape off one big 4 inch stripe and put a small tape down the center to make two stripes mustang style?  My dedumbo job is starting to look good, need to fill some holes, little pin holes where the abs bubbled when I welded it.  Then sand the shit out of it till its smooth very very smooth.

I use 3M 233+ tape, the bright green stuff. Works excellent, holds a line very well(no bleed). If it were me doing this, I would spray the white for the stripes first, just blow paint on all the parts in the area of where the stripes will be. The area you paint white should be about 5" wide.  Let it cure(follow your paint system's recommendations for times!).

Here's the tedious part(you'll learn that all beautiful paint jobs are VERY tedious!), these steps are for masking a 3.75" wide stripe consisting of a 2" stripe bordered by (2) 3/4" stripes & separated by 1/8". Starting from the left or right side of your white area, tape off your first outer edge using 3/4 or 1/2" tape. This will be your outer border. Next, mask your first stripe using 3/4" tape laid next to and directly butted up to, but not overlapping the outer border. Do the same next to this second stripe with 1/8" tape. Now lay 2 strips of 1" tape to make the middle stripe, then the 1/8" separator and outer stripe & border. Sounds simple, but it takes patience to get it nice, and even more to get them lined up properly on all the panels.

Once you have the tape all done, peel the 1/8" tape and the outer borders back off, now you're ready to shoot your red. 2 coats of red should do ya; wait for the flash time between coats(the Golden Rule is 20 MIN between coats!) and after last coat. Carefully peel the tape back, and when you do, you want to pull the tape towards you, so that it almost folds back on itself. This will minimize any chances of lifting the paint. Go slow. You're ready for clear as soon as you get the tape off. If it takes you more than say, 30 min to pull the tape off, you're better off letting the parts sit for a day or two, then scuff sand everything with 600 grit, rinse with alcohol, and then shoot your clear.  

Don't worry too much about spraying the paint. You'll have plenty of practice by shooting the primer. Shoot your test panels, and take pics. That way we can help you if it's not set up right, or congratulate you for getting it right the first time. http://www.vfrdiscus...tyle_emoticons/default/smile.gif

HS, here are photos of  the air rig. I put some foam over the intake as a filter.  The light gray corrugated tubing is a washing machine drain extension that is lighter and more flexible than the black 20ft long pond pump line. It slip fits over the hose and the fittings and allows more freedom of movement with the mask on. The model is Ned, my found mannequin that models my old Navy gear and keeps me company in the shop.
There are some shots of the tape lines that cover paint color meeting lines. They were burnished and clear coated.
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Manservant Hecubus, I presume?

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