My 2 cents

Everyone seems to be looking to find a way to justify their disappointment over the changes to the bike. For me it prompts a few questions and responses.

THE 800 WAS A BETTER BIKE. If the VFR was so much better and popular why are they discounting them to get rid of them? In the US you can still buy NEW 07s and 08s..... hardly the sign of a good seller.

IT IS UGLY. I had a 93 white VFR. Never could buy a newer one after they uglied it up with the styling changes for the 6th generation.. So some of you find the new one ugly as I do 6th generation....all in the eye of the beholder.

THE NEW BIKE IS NOT A TRUE SPORT BIKE OR TOURER. Neither was any VFR. They were always all arounders.

IT COSTS TOO MUCH AND WEIGHS TOO MUCH. In Canada as far as I am concerned there is a lot more bike here for $18,300 than for the close to $16000 they wanted for the 800. The peg, bar and seat relationship are exactly the same as the 800. Does it weigh more....yes it does by 50lbs but for that weight I get almost 50hp more. I get a bike that was designed to accept bags and won't look like a refugee from a scaffolding company when they are off the bike and all the mounting bracketry is left on the bike.

WHO WANTS AN AUTOMATIC. Not me that is why I rdered a standard. As far as the "automatic" transmission goes every tester has raved about it and it is actually a dual clutch standard tranny. No fluid drive or CVT involved the computer controls the shifting (or not if you prefer).

I have owned a multitude of motorcycles from HD Raod Kings to VFRs, VTRs, ZX-11, ST1300 and a Ducati ST4. For me this bike looks like something that works. A sporty riding position., gobs of power and available hard bags.

Amen.

Paul I too owned a CBR125 when they first came here in 07. Loved that little bike, had lots of laughs on it.

[image: View Post]PaulW, on 31 January 2010 - 02:58 PM, said:

If the VFR was so much better and popular why are they discounting them to get rid of them?


In addition to the fact that the VFR has always been a niche bike, we're in the depths of a bad recession. Not a good set of circumstances for selling a bike that is not real popular with the masses to begin with.

Quote

IT IS UGLY. <SNIP> all in the eye of the beholder.



Agreed that it's all in the eye of the beholder. After all, some even like the looks of the Victory Vision and the Honda DN-01. Personally I really like the 1200's looks with the exception of the headlight which I could probably get use to in short order.

Quote

THE NEW BIKE IS NOT A TRUE SPORT BIKE OR TOURER. Neither was any VFR.



Here I'm gonna have to disagree with you a bit. My 5th gen VFR has a 5.5 gallon tank and averages 44 mpg. That puts me over 200 miles per tank. I use it as my medium distance touring machine. The new VFR1200 has a 4.9 gallon tank and a supposed 36 mpg (15.5 kilometers/liter). To me, this really strains the credibility of the "touring" in sport-touring.

Quote

IT COSTS TOO MUCH


For my pocket book.... yes, it does. I just have a problem with paying that much money for a toy but then that's me. To others it might not be a big deal. I do think it will winnow out a lot of the VFR buying population though.

Quote

AND WEIGHS TOO MUCH. <SNIP> Does it weigh more....yes it does by 50lbs but for that weight I get almost 50hp more.

Most of us could stand to loose a few pounds anyway thus making up for that added weight! :laugh:

Quote

WHO WANTS AN AUTOMATIC. Not me

Ditto.

So far I love the new 1200 and I cant wait to pick one up in a couple of years when I've racked up some miles on my new 5th gen.

Yes the tank size is a shame, but for me after 100 miles or so I'm happy to take a quick fuel stop break anyway.

Two points I need to argue on.

6th gen luggage. I thought they did a pretty nice job on them. If nothing else, the 6th gen comes with larger bags than the 1200.

VFRs aren't selling. This could just be a case of too much supply. I mean, if VFRs were wrecked and destroyed as often as typical sport bikes, there wouldn't be many left on the floor either. It's probably just a case of people not spending money on new bikes and people being perfectly happy with their current bike.

[image: View Post]PaulW, on 31 January 2010 - 02:58 PM, said:

Everyone seems to be looking to find a way to justify their disappointment over the changes to the bike. For me it prompts a few questions and responses.

THE 800 WAS A BETTER BIKE. If the VFR was so much better and popular why are they discounting them to get rid of them? In the US you can still buy NEW 07s and 08s..... hardly the sign of a good seller.

IT IS UGLY. I had a 93 white VFR. Never could buy a newer one after they uglied it up with the styling changes for the 6th generation.. So some of you find the new one ugly as I do 6th generation....all in the eye of the beholder.

THE NEW BIKE IS NOT A TRUE SPORT BIKE OR TOURER. Neither was any VFR. They were always all arounders.

IT COSTS TOO MUCH AND WEIGHS TOO MUCH. In Canada as far as I am concerned there is a lot more bike here for $18,300 than for the close to $16000 they wanted for the 800. The peg, bar and seat relationship are exactly the same as the 800. Does it weigh more....yes it does by 50lbs but for that weight I get almost 50hp more. I get a bike that was designed to accept bags and won't look like a refugee from a scaffolding company when they are off the bike and all the mounting bracketry is left on the bike.

WHO WANTS AN AUTOMATIC. Not me that is why I rdered a standard. As far as the "automatic" transmission goes every tester has raved about it and it is actually a dual clutch standard tranny. No fluid drive or CVT involved the computer controls the shifting (or not if you prefer).

I have owned a multitude of motorcycles from HD Raod Kings to VFRs, VTRs, ZX-11, ST1300 and a Ducati ST4. For me this bike looks like something that works. A sporty riding position., gobs of power and available hard bags.


I'm not sure that many are saying the 800 is a "Better" bike. Some just like it better. There will also be left over 1200's kickin around as well. There are leftovers with every bike.

It's not ugly but has some features that don't appeal to all but such is life. That's why there is more than one car, more than one bike, more than one bra and more than one skirt being made.

Who would pay $16000 for a 800? They were listed at $14999 which I don't think anyone paid that amount or even close.

I like the auto idea personally but don't like that you can't turn it off and go manual with the same bike.

With every generation change there will be those expressions for and against, some will be legitimate, some will be harsh. It's important for those that like it to understand that some will not and for those that don't like some will think it's the greatest thing ever. As VFR owners we need to respect each others for their tastes.

[image: View Post]vfr_steve, on 31 January 2010 - 06:14 PM, said:

Yes the tank size is a shame, but for me after 100 miles or so I'm happy to take a quick fuel stop break anyway.



You guys have towns every few miles so gas tank size is not the concern it is for us yanks who travel around the western US. Last summer I was in an area of Nevada where there was no gas station for almost 200 miles! When I lived in the UK (early 70's), the only place I saw that was even halfway remote was maybe parts of Scotland and I'm sure that's probably changed by now.

[image: View Post]PaulW, on 31 January 2010 - 02:58 PM, said:

THE NEW BIKE IS NOT A TRUE SPORT BIKE OR TOURER. Neither was any VFR. They were always all arounders.


I'm not going to bother offering my opinion on your other points, because I don't want to upset your need to justify your expenditure - but I will set you straight on one thing - The ORIGINAL VFR, the 1986 VFR750F, was a RACEBIKE, and it won championships! As did its predecessor, the 1983/84 VF750F. The VFR750F was sold and raced from 86-89(sold only from 86-87 in the US) after which it was then replaced in the racing world by the V4 RC30, and in street trim by the 1990 VFR750F. Ever since 1990 the VFR has been becoming more of a tourer than sport bike, and Honda hasn't offered a pure sport V4 to the public since the RC45.

It's been over a decade, is it too much to ask for a new VFR750/800R, Honda?? Alongside the tourer, perhaps?

[image: View Post]mick, on 31 January 2010 - 06:33 PM, said:

[image: View Post]vfr_steve, on 31 January 2010 - 06:14 PM, said:

Yes the tank size is a shame, but for me after 100 miles or so I'm happy to take a quick fuel stop break anyway.



You guys have towns every few miles so gas tank size is not the concern it is for us yanks who travel around the western US. Last summer I was in an area of Nevada where there was no gas station for almost 200 miles! When I lived in the UK (early 70's), the only place I saw that was even halfway remote was maybe parts of Scotland and I'm sure that's probably changed by now.


good point :+1:

[image: View Post]jasonsmith, on 31 January 2010 - 06:29 PM, said:

[image: View Post]PaulW, on 31 January 2010 - 02:58 PM, said:

Everyone seems to be looking to find a way to justify their disappointment over the changes to the bike. For me it prompts a few questions and responses.

THE 800 WAS A BETTER BIKE. If the VFR was so much better and popular why are they discounting them to get rid of them? In the US you can still buy NEW 07s and 08s..... hardly the sign of a good seller.

IT IS UGLY. I had a 93 white VFR. Never could buy a newer one after they uglied it up with the styling changes for the 6th generation.. So some of you find the new one ugly as I do 6th generation....all in the eye of the beholder.

THE NEW BIKE IS NOT A TRUE SPORT BIKE OR TOURER. Neither was any VFR. They were always all arounders.

IT COSTS TOO MUCH AND WEIGHS TOO MUCH. In Canada as far as I am concerned there is a lot more bike here for $18,300 than for the close to $16000 they wanted for the 800. The peg, bar and seat relationship are exactly the same as the 800. Does it weigh more....yes it does by 50lbs but for that weight I get almost 50hp more. I get a bike that was designed to accept bags and won't look like a refugee from a scaffolding company when they are off the bike and all the mounting bracketry is left on the bike.

WHO WANTS AN AUTOMATIC. Not me that is why I rdered a standard. As far as the "automatic" transmission goes every tester has raved about it and it is actually a dual clutch standard tranny. No fluid drive or CVT involved the computer controls the shifting (or not if you prefer).

I have owned a multitude of motorcycles from HD Raod Kings to VFRs, VTRs, ZX-11, ST1300 and a Ducati ST4. For me this bike looks like something that works. A sporty riding position., gobs of power and available hard bags.


I'm not sure that many are saying the 800 is a "Better" bike. Some just like it better. There will also be left over 1200's kickin around as well. There are leftovers with every bike.

It's not ugly but has some features that don't appeal to all but such is life. That's why there is more than one car, more than one bike, more than one bra and more than one skirt being made.

Who would pay $16000 for a 800? They were listed at $14999 which I don't think anyone paid that amount or even close.

I like the auto idea personally but don't like that you can't turn it off and go manual with the same bike.

With every generation change there will be those expressions for and against, some will be legitimate, some will be harsh. It's important for those that like it to understand that some will not and for those that don't like some will think it's the greatest thing ever. As VFR owners we need to respect each others for their tastes.



But there is a "manual" shift mode to the automatic. You have to select the gears individually with the buttons on the left bar. You just don't have to operate a clutch!

I wouldn't be suprised to see some riders get around the 41 to 44 mpg we get by using the non-sport version of the automatic mode. I personally would only be using that mode when the wife was on the back! But there appears to be no automatic version for the U.S. market as of yet...only the standard.

I reallly like the idea of not having a rear wheel always in need of a wash! :wheel:

I too wish the bags might have been a bit larger.

[image: View Post]SEBSPEED, on 31 January 2010 - 06:45 PM, said:

[image: View Post]PaulW, on 31 January 2010 - 02:58 PM, said:

THE NEW BIKE IS NOT A TRUE SPORT BIKE OR TOURER. Neither was any VFR. They were always all arounders.


I'm not going to bother offering my opinion on your other points, because I don't want to upset your need to justify your expenditure - but I will set you straight on one thing - The ORIGINAL VFR, the 1986 VFR750F, was a RACEBIKE, and it won championships! As did its predecessor, the 1983/84 VF750F. The VFR750F was sold and raced from 86-89(sold only from 86-87 in the US) after which it was then replaced in the racing world by the V4 RC30, and in street trim by the 1990 VFR750F. Ever since 1990 the VFR has been becoming more of a tourer than sport bike, and Honda hasn't offered a pure sport V4 to the public since the RC45.

It's been over a decade, is it too much to ask for a new VFR750/800R, Honda?? Alongside the tourer, perhaps?



Just so you know I don't need external justification or validation to buy this so there is nothing you could say to upset what doesn't exist. But I do agree that the original was successful in superbike racing and that ceased once they differentiated with the RC30. I think a new VFR 750/800 supersport would be great. The difficulty is that there is no longer a racing class for that displacement so it would have to be a 1000 and there is no way Honda will compete directly with itself and the CBR.

[image: View Post]PaulW, on 31 January 2010 - 07:45 PM, said:

Just so you know I don't need external justification or validation to buy this so there is nothing you could say to upset what doesn't exist. But I do agree that the original was successful in superbike racing and that ceased once they differentiated with the RC30. I think a new VFR 750/800 supersport would be great. The difficulty is that there is no longer a racing class for that displacement so it would have to be a 1000 and there is no way Honda will compete directly with itself and the CBR.



Sad but true.

6th gen silver VFR800s are the best bike Honda ever made and continue to be.
Nobody likes that new ugly bike, it wont sell either.
Why would I buy a 7th gen when I could get a silver zx-14 concours?
I think the Kawasaki is better.

[image: View Post]YoshiHNS, on 31 January 2010 - 06:22 PM, said:

Two points I need to argue on.

6th gen luggage. I thought they did a pretty nice job on them. If nothing else, the 6th gen comes with larger bags than the 1200.

VFRs aren't selling. This could just be a case of too much supply. I mean, if VFRs were wrecked and destroyed as often as typical sport bikes, there wouldn't be many left on the floor either. It's probably just a case of people not spending money on new bikes and people being perfectly happy with their current bike.



+1 You can get a great 6th gen used at $5000.
I am not spending $10000 on ANY bike be it a Honda, Ducati, or KTM
The cost of a 7th gen is more than my 6 bike collection combined.
money is tight.
Plenty of great bikes up for sale at very, very low prices.
I will buy the 7th gen in a few years when it sells at $5000 used.

[image: View Post]DougFromIndy, on 31 January 2010 - 08:37 PM, said:

I will buy the 7th gen in a few years when it sells at $5000 used.



Be sure to post your impressions in 2020 when you pick up your used VFR1200 for 5 grand.

[image: View Post]phobe, on 31 January 2010 - 08:43 PM, said:

[image: View Post]DougFromIndy, on 31 January 2010 - 08:37 PM, said:

I will buy the 7th gen in a few years when it sells at $5000 used.



Be sure to post your impressions in 2020 when you pick up your used VFR1200 for 5 grand.

I will do that...I have time
I remember peeking in the window at a 94 900rr:



[image: Posted Image]

It was a good bike then and I would love to have one today...I waited 16 years..still like it.
10 year wait on a 7th gen, no problem

[image: View Post]PaulW, on 31 January 2010 - 02:58 PM, said:

IT COSTS TOO MUCH


It's not purely about cost, it's about cost vs. features. The VFR1200F is overpriced by about $2000 USD. A 1200cc with basic ABS and no other features/accessories included shouldn't cost $16K USD.

I sat on the 1200 this weekend at the bike show, the ergo's feel the same, the suspension feels the same (pushing down on it) it doesn't feel any heavier, and the seat was narrower allowing my feet to hit the ground easier. it looks a lot bigger i even sat on a 6th gen they had there just to compare and yep w/o riding it the only plus is the seat width. I thought the MSRP on the 6th gen was a good value, and the Base 1200 isn't all that bad. I think I talked a guy into looking for a 6th gen. I still like the 6th gen better but the 1200 isn't as bad as i thought it was going to be, but that might change after a test ride.

I think the VFR1200 will make the 6th gen bike look better in the same way the 6th gen bike made the 5th gen bike look so good.

[image: View Post]SAFE-T, on 02 February 2010 - 01:11 PM, said:

I think the VFR1200 will make the 6th gen bike look better in the same way the 6th gen bike made the 5th gen bike look so good.



I think you are comparing apples with oranges. Your argument would be stronger had you used 'Blackbird' instead.

[image: View Post]SAFE-T, on 02 February 2010 - 01:11 PM, said:

I think the VFR1200 will make the 6th gen bike look better in the same way the 6th gen bike made the 5th gen bike look so good.



It will make generations 1 through 6 look very small in its mirrors.

[image: View Post]phobe, on 02 February 2010 - 05:10 PM, said:

[image: View Post]SAFE-T, on 02 February 2010 - 01:11 PM, said:

I think the VFR1200 will make the 6th gen bike look better in the same way the 6th gen bike made the 5th gen bike look so good.



It will make generations 1 through 6 look very small in its mirrors.


In a straight line...

After seeing and sitting on it I like it, but not $16k worth. If I had an infinite amount of money I'd buy one as soon as an after market exhaust was available (assuming it looks normal)
If it was $15k and included bags they'd stand a chance against the BMW and the Kawi and the FJR.

[image: View Post]jasonsmith, on 02 February 2010 - 05:15 PM, said:

[image: View Post]phobe, on 02 February 2010 - 05:10 PM, said:

[image: View Post]SAFE-T, on 02 February 2010 - 01:11 PM, said:

I think the VFR1200 will make the 6th gen bike look better in the same way the 6th gen bike made the 5th gen bike look so good.



It will make generations 1 through 6 look very small in its mirrors.


In a straight line...
How do you know it won't handle better? It'll definitely stop better.