Hi. First of all, a big thanks to all of you for a great source of information. I've been a lurker here for quite some time, but now I'm out of the shadows.
The season is about to begin here in Scandinavia, and I'll be picking up my '98 VFR800 from winter storage in about a weeks. I bought it used last year, and find that it understeers more than I like. On fresh tires, I find myself having to counter-steer it all the way through corners, not the "on rails feeling" I'd like. I'm pretty sure that the forks are set to the "old" Honda spec. of 39mm. and would like to raise them 5mm. to the updated spec. of 44mm.
Can this be done with the wheel on, or do I have to take it off in order to make sure I get the forks lined up exactly so the wheel runs straight? :idea3:
I'll also make the effort to properly set SAG this year, and will be pimpin' my dash with blue LEDs :wheel:
[image: View Post]Flanker, on 01 April 2010 - 04:42 PM, said:
Hi. First of all, a big thanks to all of you for a great source of information. I've been a lurker here for quite some time, but now I'm out of the shadows.
The season is about to begin here in Scandinavia, and I'll be picking up my '98 VFR800 from winter storage in about a weeks. I bought it used last year, and find that it understeers more than I like. On fresh tires, I find myself having to counter-steer it all the way through corners, not the "on rails feeling" I'd like. I'm pretty sure that the forks are set to the "old" Honda spec. of 39mm. and would like to raise them 5mm. to the updated spec. of 44mm.
Can this be done with the wheel on, or do I have to take it off in order to make sure I get the forks lined up exactly so the wheel runs straight? :idea3:
I'll also make the effort to properly set SAG this year, and will be pimpin' my dash with blue LEDs :wheel:
Hi from Spain...
That's a big 10-4 buddy!! I have always done it with the wheel on ("raise the forks" that is...hehehe). In fact I would hazard to say it would help keep the forks in line. 5 mm is good starting point... get a pair of callipers and a carjack, carjack under the headers, loosen off the 4 yoke bolts (upper and lower), careful not to bust a nuckle, and lower the bike w the jack... ��m�s f�cil: mear!!
yes like mentioned it's not a big deal to adjust fork height fully assembled, especially if you have it on the center stand and use a jack to control front drop, it's easy.
BTW what tires did you install? Installing some quick steering tires like Pilot Powers will change the bike completely, also if your not inseam challenged you might want to add 3-5mm shim under the top mount of the rear shock instead. It's easy and you can just cut bolt width slots in washers to achieve it w/o removing the shock. :fing02:
Search for the 929 shock swap also as it's perfect mod for the 5th gen.
Thanks for all the helpful replies. Seems like this will be a piece of cake with the wheel on. I'm just interested in updating my bike to the new Honda spec. and won't be raising the forks radically.
Tires are Metzeler Z6 with only 700km. on them set to the mfg. recommended tyre pressure, that I can't remember right now. The bike's still in winter storage at a local dealer. The Z6 has an excellent rep. in Norway, and works very well with our temperatures and asphalt. If raising the forks 5mm. doesn't have the desired effect I'm thinking about putting an M3 front tire on to quicken the steering some more.
Hoping that this mod, and properly set SAG, will do the trick.
I would properly set your sag first and ride it before you raise your forks just in case your front is tighter than the rear. Just so you can get the full feel of what the fork change has done for you.
Thanks. Will set SAG first and try it before raising the fork. Can't wait to get back in the saddle now. The bike's been in winter storage since October. Norway has some of the best motorcycle roads in the world, but I could do without the long winter :(
[image: View Post]BaileyRock, on 01 April 2010 - 05:42 PM, said:
BTW what tires did you install? Installing some quick steering tires like Pilot Powers will change the bike completely, also if your not inseam challenged you might want to add 3-5mm shim under the top mount of the rear shock instead. It's easy and you can just cut bolt width slots in washers to achieve it w/o removing the shock. :fing02:
Also, a squared-off front tire will have a dramatic effect on this as well.
[image: View Post]Ryanme17, on 02 April 2010 - 11:16 AM, said:
[image: View Post]BaileyRock, on 01 April 2010 - 05:42 PM, said:
BTW what tires did you install? Installing some quick steering tires like Pilot Powers will change the bike completely, also if your not inseam challenged you might want to add 3-5mm shim under the top mount of the rear shock instead. It's easy and you can just cut bolt width slots in washers to achieve it w/o removing the shock. :fing02:
Also, a squared-off front tire will have a dramatic effect on this as well.
So true, but he said he's on Fresh rubber! :rolleyes:
The Z6 is a Sluggish handler compared to many other sport oriented tires, the M3 would be a big improvement and the PP's are razor sharp in comparison. :fing02:
I'll be looking into a tyre upgrade if these mods don't give the effect I want. Tire prices in Norway are insane, so to keep cost down I'd probably put an M3 front on and keep the Z6 rear.
I don't think I have the riding skills to take advantage of a set of sports tires. Also, I believe a tire like the PP would have a longer warm-up time than ST rubber. Wet and cold grip are essential where I live. So when I wear out the current set I'd like to try the Avon Storm, the new Z6 Interact or the Pilot Road 2. All of these are getting rave reviews :)
Raising/lowering the forks is a snap. hardest part is reaching all the fasteners sometimes depending on the generation of the bike. Sometimes you need to remove bodywork to get a clear access -especially for using a torque wrench to re-tighten them properly.
Put the bike up on the centerstand and loosen the pinch bolts on the triple-tree one fork at a time. Grip the fork tube firmly and slightly rotate it while pushing upwards. They should move quite easily, with only a little back-pressure force holding them back. If you do this one fork at a time you won't have to worry about them wanting to drop away too much and it will stay where you leave it. If it wants to creep down on you while you are measuring you can put a tiny bit of pressure on one of the pinch bolts but not enough to keep the tube from being free enough to move. Use a calipers with a depth gauge to measure the before/after, or a really good steel ruler if you have good eyes and can get a clear view. You can remove the clip-on for an even easier measurement here.
Caveats:
If the fork tubes are not clean you should wipe them off around the pinch points so you are not shoving dirt up into the triple-clamps or making it harder on yourself by having to plow it out of the way in order to move them. Dirt/dust in the pinch area will eventually cause wear marks and rust on the tubes where the pinch points grip them. Not a huge issue but one that bothers me at service time and something to buff off when changing fork seals so they don't get damaged when they pass the rough spots.
Biggest issue for me is moving/disturbing the clip-ons a little, and getting them back to where I like them again. Even with the stock clip-ons there is a little bit of adjustment available in the locating pin -and for me at least, even the tiniest bit of change is noticeable and bothers me while I'm riding. If you have helibars or other aftermarket clip-ons that allow for infinate rotation be sure to check that they are positioned correctly and do not hit either the tank or the fairing at full lock.
If you are not an experienced wrench I'd definitely suggest you use a good torque wrench to tighten all the pinch bolts back up to factory torque specs from the manual. These are not things you want to have too loose or tightened too tight and possibly strip or deform/weaken the threads. Remember the triple clamps are only cast aluminum! The same goes for the clip-on bar pinch bolts. It's a safety issue here, if they move when you are riding you will be in for a nasty surprise.
Double-check all your work.
Have fun! Wrenching is a zen thing and can be more fun than conventional religion.
[image: View Post]Flanker, on 03 April 2010 - 12:57 AM, said:
I don't think I have the riding skills to take advantage of a set of sports tires. Also, I believe a tire like the PP would have a longer warm-up time than ST rubber. Wet and cold grip are essential where I live.
No warm up issue with the PP, maybe 30 sec. I ride year round in all conditions and down into the 20's and have never have a cold tire slip on a PP in the last 50,000 miles. :fing02:
[image: View Post]BaileyRock, on 02 April 2010 - 08:37 PM, said:
So true, but he said he's on Fresh rubber! :rolleyes:
The Z6 is a Sluggish handler compared to many other sport oriented tires, the M3 would be a big improvement and the PP's are razor sharp in comparison. :fing02:
The Z6 is a great sport-touring tyre... very much like the Pilot Road... the M3 will feel more nimble as do the Pilot Powers...
Actually, a "harder" sport-touring tyre will probably give maximum grip faster than the "softer" sportier tyres as their optimum operating temperature range is lower. They will of course feel less prone to tipping into corners...
I'm 6�4" and have the fork tubes rased 5mm on my '03 VTEC... you won't notice the difference in seat height, our sensory system is not that finely tuned.
Getting your sag set the way you like it may be enough... let us know...
Weather forecast is looking great for the weekend. Bike's coming out of its den :wheel:
All the required tools are ready, and so am I. Plan is as follows:
1. Properly set SAG, then test...
2. Raise forks 5mm. to 44m, set SAG again and test...
3. If all else fails, new rubber!
If I end up having to get new tire(s), I've narrowed it down to these options:
- Keep the Z6 rear and mount an M3 front.
- Pilot Road 2 front and rear.
- Avon Storm 2 Ultra front and rear.
From what I've read the Avons have the quickest turn-in, and the Storm 2 Ultra is also the newest tire of the bunch = newest technology (probably). PR2's have the best reputation and last the longest. An M3 on the front would be the cheapest option.
Your views on my tire options?
Will update again on Friday, after setting SAG (and most likely raising the forks). Hopefully I won't have to fork out cash for new tires to get the bike feeling the way I'd like...
Yes! Picked up the Viffer from storage today and rode it home. It's a 30min. trip with some great twisties at the end. But riding today was a very different experience compared to last year.
It's all in the pants. And I mean that literally! Last years pants were a cheap Cordura thing with rubber on the ass-part. They squeezed the... um... "equipment" a bit and the seams on the rubber "ass-pad" were not comfy at all. Turns out the rubber was also hinderig me moving on the bike. :pissed:
So with my brand new and very comfy Spidi pants on today, I tried getting into a correct riding position. As I did, my ass slid backwards on the seat, I arched my lower back and went "Aha!". Bike is now effortless in steering, and where I previously leaned my upper body out and muscled it through turns I could now sit up straight and with very little effort put the bike right where I wanted it - And still go 10 km/h faster through the twisties than I did last year! :wheel:
I had no idea how much proper body positioning meant. Today, with the help of my new pants, I've seen the light. Rubber-ass-pants are now going in the bin ASAP!
Tomorrow I'll set SAG, and that'll probably make it even better. I don't see raising forks or new rubber in my future right now. Will update again tomorrow :)
Ok, a final update from me here. Today I properly set SAG on my bike. As I thought, I had to wind up the rear preload a bit. Front was fine.
So, here's what I dialed in. 1998 VFR w/ genmar riseres, otherwise stock. Rider 180cm. tall and approx 93kg. with all the gear on.
Front: 2 lines showing. Rider SAG 38mm.
Rear: Position 5, i.e. 5 cliks of preload. Rider SAG 35mm.
Bike handled even better after this, but the the increased rear preload played tricks with the rebound. Had to crank that up 1/2 turn from the stock settings to get in the ballpark, and might tinker some more with it in the future.
So, to conclude this topic: Before you start thinking that your tires are crap, that you need to raise the forks or fix anything else technical - Take a good look at yourself and your riding position, and properly set SAG. It makes a world of difference.
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