Ah Geez....Now What?

So I left work today and headed out for a beautiful ride through the countryside and eventually worked my way over to a local park where my wife was playing tennis. Watched her and several other ladies knock fuzzy green balls around the court for about an hour. After leaving I made it about a hundred feet and the bike went totally dead, lights and all. All of the lights flickered back on for a second but immediately went off again. By this time I had coasted to the edge of the road totally dumbfounded.

All of the electric threads started scrolling through my head as I wondered what could be the trouble. I had started pulling my helmet and gloves off and suddenly everything came back to life. The fuel gauge was flashing empty even though it has a half tank of gas and my clock/tripmeters were reset as if one of the battery cables had been removed. Once I got home I checked the cables and they are tight but it's too dark to start pulling tupperware.

Wonder what it could be this time. Posted Image

Check the blue connector first. Non ABS - its on the left side......

Wonder what it could be this time.

After the last several days, my initial thought would be water got somewhere it doesn't belong and has had a couple of days to cause some corrosion.

I would be afraid that you are going to have to have a complete failure to troubleshoot the problem out and find where it really is. Nothing worse than an intermittent failure that appears to remedy itself.

Check the blue connector first. Non ABS - its on the left side......

Yeah, it's similar to what happened the first time the blue connector welded itself together.

Lee, surely two days of rain wouldn't have done anything. :laughing6-hehe: Guess I may have to start by cleaning every connector.

check the battery conections.. make sure they are tight.. make sure the battery is full. a dry battery will suddenly stop like that.

check the battery conections.. make sure they are tight.. make sure the battery is full. a dry battery will suddenly stop like that.

Battery cables are good and tight, no corrosion. The battery is sealed and is less than a year old.

check the battery conections.. make sure they are tight.. make sure the battery is full. a dry battery will suddenly stop like that.

Battery cables are good and tight, no corrosion. The battery is sealed and is less than a year old.

Check your main fuse B as well - take out the fuse, check for damage, check the holder for signs of melting.

Actually, I'm just thinking about this and it's not a behaviour I have experienced. None of my troubles ever resulted in my fuel gauge showing wierd stuff.

This sounds more like a bad ground/short. For example of your fuel gauge is showing empty when it's not, it means the path through that circuit probably has no resistance or very little resistance. Hence, a short to ground.

You can check your blue connector ground, and also the main ground line under the rear of the tank right near the pivot bolts. If that's gone funny, then electricty will find a different path to ground, which is not what you want.

Oh also a reason the bike can die here is the fuel cut off relay and engine stop relay are located up there in the front wiring harness. If you get transient power issues they will trip out - for example one of the first signs my main fuse B has fried is the engine stop relay tripping out on me and the bike dying - sometimes while riding!

Looks like you've got lots of electrical mods by your signature but I don't see Tightwad's VFRness. Have you done that?

He did his own version of the VFRness as I recall, prior to me making it.

Dutch - How about you come to my place, and while you figure why my bike acts funny before it warms up, I will check yours out for electrical possibilities...or something like that.

Check the bottom of the fuse panels for corrosion as well...but I would guess it is an intermittent open wire (a short would typically blow a fuse)

Yea break out the dielectric grease and hit all the connectors you can and beef up the common ground connector. I am sure your romp in the ozarks rain had nothing to do with it. I am really envious, but after riding a bit today I am not sure I would have been able to follow - boy I am out of practice and rusty.

Check the bottom of the fuse panels for corrosion as well...but I would guess it is an intermittent open wire (a short would typically blow a fuse)

Good point - open wire is much more likely than a short to ground. The whole fuel gauge thing I probably got backwards - I should go and test this by disconnecting my fuel gauge wires and see what happens. $50 says the gauge goes to zero!

My '04 did this to me, turned out it was the kill switch. Haven't fixed it yet, but it is touchy and needs to be cleaned. Good luck, hope its something simple.

He did his own version of the VFRness as I recall, prior to me making it.

Dutch - How about you come to my place, and while you figure why my bike acts funny before it warms up, I will check yours out for electrical possibilities...or something like that.

Check the bottom of the fuse panels for corrosion as well...but I would guess it is an intermittent open wire (a short would typically blow a fuse)

Joshua, still having issues with the engine eh?


I did the ground fix, and beefed up the wiring to the main fuse along with getting the front harness replaced. On my way to work this morning it hiccuped briefly but ran fine this afternoon. This weekend I'll tear into it to see what I can find.

Thanks all for the suggestions.

He did his own version of the VFRness as I recall, prior to me making it.

Dutch - How about you come to my place, and while you figure why my bike acts funny before it warms up, I will check yours out for electrical possibilities...or something like that.

Check the bottom of the fuse panels for corrosion as well...but I would guess it is an intermittent open wire (a short would typically blow a fuse)

Joshua, still having issues with the engine eh?


I did the ground fix, and beefed up the wiring to the main fuse along with getting the front harness replaced. On my way to work this morning it hiccuped briefly but ran fine this afternoon. This weekend I'll tear into it to see what I can find.

Thanks all for the suggestions.

Still questioning why it runs the way it does...too nervous to just ride it, and lost my motivation to trouble shoot it (funner projects came into the garage...)

"My name is Joshua, and I am a VFR loser..."

Well, yesterday I geared up to head home and when I hit the starter it spun over for just a second and then everything went dead.....nothing! Jiggled the key switch, kill switch, starter button and nothing. I kicked the sidestand out and when I leaned the bike over the clock came back on. Maybe sidestand switch or tip sensor? When I stood it back up everything went dead. Leaned against the seat and the clock flickered on and back off. Pulled the seat and as I grabbed the fuse holder to check it and noticed the melted connector. It's completely fused together and wouldn't pry apart. Sucks to be me. :fing02:


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That'll buff right out...

Dutch
Had you ever done any prepping work on that connector, if so what did you use?

Well, yesterday I geared up to head home and when I hit the starter it spun over for just a second and then everything went dead.....nothing! Jiggled the key switch, kill switch, starter button and nothing. I kicked the sidestand out and when I leaned the bike over the clock came back on. Maybe sidestand switch or tip sensor? When I stood it back up everything went dead. Leaned against the seat and the clock flickered on and back off. Pulled the seat and as I grabbed the fuse holder to check it and noticed the melted connector. It's completely fused together and wouldn't pry apart. Sucks to be me. :fing02:


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I've got an '04 myself and I really... really don't like seeing stuff like this. :excl: Sorry to see it, guess it'd be nice to figure out why it happened?

Dutch
Had you ever done any prepping work on that connector, if so what did you use?

Only thing I did was check it periodically.

Dutch - I might have one of those assemblies - let me know if you need it.

Dutch - I do have it. Here's what I've got:

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Will look for the red connector piece as well - I might have it on my spare "wrecked" harness.

EDIT - I don't have that red connector - however - the posts it connects to are all accessible by using a female terminal. YOu have to do some repair wiring anyway - you could just use slip on female connectors and go that way. A Red connector would be better though.

I've got an '04 myself and I really... really don't like seeing stuff like this. :fing02: Sorry to see it, guess it'd be nice to figure out why it happened?

Looks to me that the Red wire off of the load side of "Main Fuse A" burned off at the 4P connector (actually only 3 wires used on 4P) Why this happened is more of a mystery. Theoretically this Red wire is fused right here @ 30A -but if you have a constant 30A load it might be enough power to sizzle this connector over time without ever blowing the fuse.

Where is this load coming from? Good question.

Perhaps there was a low-impedance short somewhere in the control circuit. This positive Red wire pretty much runs everything in the whole bike. It's fused down just about everywhere in the bike though.

Perhaps the OP put in some anti-ox grease in the 4P connector and got too much bridging between the Red wire and the Green/Red (which is a ground) or even to the 3rd wire, the Yellow/Red (which is the positive half of the coil that triggers the starter relay). Hard to tell. The burn-up seems to be localized at the Red wire though (which is totally burned to the point that you can't recognize it as a red wire any more.

Maybe, just maybe, there is an issue with "Main Fuse B" and somehow the R/R charging circuit is finding it's way back to the battery through "Main Fuse A" or if there is an issue with the rectification of clean DC power it's getting into your system and causing all sorts of transient A/C surges in what should be clean DC. AC in the DC side can do some really weird things.

I'd do a complete check of the R/R charging circuit to make sure it is behaving once I replaced this starter solenoid/Main Fuse A block (hell, I'd just ditch this undersized POS and re-do it with a generic unit from an auto-parts store and put in an external ATX or ATC 30A fuseblock for "Main Fuse A" next to "Main Fuse B" snapped onto the battery box if I couldn't source the VFR-specific green unit cheap.

I'd also check my grounds REALLY well with specific attention to the ground at the frame just above the right footpeg. Remember, any ground to a cast or extruded aluminum casting will be very hard to see corrosion with the naked eye -even if you have it apart. Just sand all the surfaces of the ring connector and the face of the aluminum frame where it contacts it and re-assemble with anti-oxidant grease (DO NOT USE DIELECTRIC like I've seen some people say here. You want to decrease the resistance to zero -not add an insulator. Aluminum oxide looks just like good aluminum. In fact, aluminum oxidizes to a nice gray color very quickly and it is a good insulator even in a very VERY thin layer. My theory is that most all R/R charging and other electrical issues originate at this main ground point. If it sucks, it's going to cause all sorts of issues and you really can't tell it sucks by looking at it.

My advice is to disassemble this main frame ground at least every 2 years and sand the surfaces and reassemble with anti-ox grease. This might be the key to the R/R issue, as it is often overlooked because on the surface it "looks" really good. Looks can lie. If it were a steel frame you could actually get away with a lot of surface rust and the metal/metal contact under that would still be fine. With aluminum it's really tricky. Looks can deceive.

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Cross reference with TomG33's excellent Electrical Ladder Diagram for the 6th gen which makes is easy to follow what all the circuits do. The FSM's wiring diagram is a maze of tiny close-spaced parallel and crossing lines that are hard to follow without a ruler or other straight-edge to suss out what is going where.

(DO NOT USE DIELECTRIC like I've seen some people say here. You want to decrease the resistance to zero -not add an insulator)))))))))))

I use wd40 and have had zero issues ensuring there's also a solid mechanical zero resistance connection, I agree dielectric grease can increase the odds of insulataing and causing heat build up as a result.

Now I have used dexoxit type products, but on a motorcycle wd40 seems to work well, easy to apply ect.

Serenity, thanks for the wiring diagram and info. Yes, the "red" wire is definitely the one that has been cooking. The insulation is completely melted off. I guess I'm not aware of the ground by the foot peg so I will definitely check into that.

I never use dielectric grease except maybe on spark plug terminals for my truck. I generally just check the connectors for signs of heat and clean the grit out with GBC contact cleaner.

A brief history:

• Bought this '04 new in '05.
• Currently has 53K miles
• Gets ridden in the rain several times a year.
• I beefed up the wiring to fuse B the first time it went up in flames some time ago.
• Dealer replaced the front wiring harness.
• Added a seperate relay and Centech AP-1 Fuse Block using license plate light for the relay trigger.
• Accessories running off the fuse block are heated grips, radar detector, powerlet connector, and gps power
• Accessories running directly off the battery are stebel horn and pigtail for my Gerbings

All the wiring I've done has been soldered and double wrapped with heat shrink.

(DO NOT USE DIELECTRIC like I've seen some people say here. You want to decrease the resistance to zero -not add an insulator)))))))))))

I use wd40 and have had zero issues ensuring there's also a solid mechanical zero resistance connection, I agree dielectric grease can increase the odds of insulataing and causing heat build up as a result.

Now I have used dexoxit type products, but on a motorcycle wd40 seems to work well, easy to apply ect.

Dielectric is made of silicone -the same stuff they make high voltage insulation out of. We use it in high voltage splices to lubricate, insulate, and water-proof high voltage termination kits between the outer insulating boot, the ground shield, and the semi-conducting and rubber insulating layers below that. Silicone helps displace any crap that might cause carbon tracking and migrate between the termination point back over the semi-conducting and insulating areas towards the ground.

It's the right stuff to use when making up spark plug wires when you put on the boots (actually that's very similar to the high voltage terminations we do at work and I use the leftover grease from the splice kits at work when I work on spark plugs. It's free! (for me).

WD-40 makes a decent cleaner too. It's a penetrating and cleaning agent which does a decent job of cleaning away copper and aluminum oxides that are insulating contaminants in wire connections. It also displaces water which you do not want in the connections or on high voltage cable (like on spark plugs). Spraying WD-40 on the spark plug wires is an old trick to temporarily rejuvenate them if they are arcing or you have poor spark when the wires are wet. But it doesn't last forever as it is VERY light oil and most of it just evaporates in short order. What little oil is left doesn't protect against corrosion for long. Anti-ox grease will last pretty much forever or until it is washed off with a degreaser (like WD-40...)

The best cleaner is electrical contact cleaner. It usually comes in an areosol can and smells nice :fing02: It's good stuff and does a much better job than WD-40 but if all you have is WD it's OK. Best to just disassemble everything dry, clean it off with fine sandpaper or emory cloth to get any oxidation off, clean that off with denatured or isopropyl alcohol, and then reassemble with anti-ox.

Deoxit is OK, as is NoAlOx. Contractors tend to use NoAlOx because it is a name brand but I buy the GB crap because it is available at hardware stores. Most professional electricians tend to look down on GB as it is a crap low-end brand of electrical supplies for homeowners and residential schmucks. Hate their wire connectors [Wire-Nut™ is a brand name just like Kleenex™ and everyone just calls all Wire-Nut™'s wirenuts although a lot of oldtimers still call them scotchlocks -hate the actual Scotchlocks™ as the damn internal springs always spin inside them -they suck]

So I tossed the bike in my mighty Toyota and brought her home tonight. Later this week I'll rip the tupperware off and start evaluating the wiring/connectors and also do a major cleaning on the terminals. Probably a good thing since I have my radar detector hidden inside my fairings and haven't checked it in quite a while.

I appreciate all the advice and will soon be putting it to use and thanks to Kanadian Ken I now have a replacement switch assy. on it's way from the great white north. Many thanks to you kind sir!! :cheerleader:

I tore the bike apart this weekend to see what was up. Every connector was in good shape with the exception of my starter relay/main fuse fiasco. I cleaned the dirt and road grime out of the other connectors and went to work on the bad stuff.


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The red/white wires going to the secondary 30A fuse that were replaced in the recall were starting to melt again so I opted to replace those while I was in there. The single connector didn't seem to be of much use so I left it out.

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The red wire that actually incinerated everything was completely toast. I had to cut the harness apart several inches to get to clean wire and in the process found a splice where the single wire joined two. The splice was wrapped in sticky blue tape. I upped the wire size on the single and made a crimp/solder joint.

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I replaced the wire to the fuse with a butt splice connector cause my soldering iron died otherwise it would have been soldered.

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After replacing all the wires I added stake-on connectors for the relay. I was able to salvage the red cap for the main fuse and added heat shrink everywhere else to keep the factory look.

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All voltages tested where they should be so I guess I'm ok for now. Will this fix anything? I really doubt it but it should carry me through a few more rides this summer. Honda I am not impressed. :fing02: