Had a discussion last week with a friend who doesn't ride. When a family member found out that I had gotten a new bike he said (via e-mail) that he would have to bring his helmet when he came back east to visit. This was news to me - I didn't know he was riding at all.
Here's what I asked:
"So you ride too?
Many questions:
What do you ride?
How long have you ridden?
You *DO* ride in full gear. *RIGHT???*
Where did you find gear?
Where did you find your ride?
Again with the full gear. *RIGHT???*
Do you rent bikes in your area?
Yea, this equals good times..!"
My friend took this as Elitist. I took it as a coversation that I've had with many a rider (including that same morning - minus the gear questions as I could see what he had on).
Personally I try not to ride with Squids/folks wearing little or no proper gear - they are the reason my insurance is as high as it is (in comparison to other bikes) and they do give several drivers reason to glare at sport bikers.
Is this position eliteist? Is the e-mail eliteist?
[image: View Post]revengel, on 08 June 2010 - 12:06 PM, said:
My plan is to cross-post this to VFR World.
Had a discussion last week with a friend who doesn't ride. When a family member found out that I had gotten a new bike he said (via e-mail) that he would have to bring his helmet when he came back east to visit. This was news to me - I didn't know he was riding at all.
Here's what I asked:
"So you ride too?
Many questions:
What do you ride?
How long have you ridden?
You *DO* ride in full gear. *RIGHT???*
Where did you find gear?
Where did you find your ride?
Again with the full gear. *RIGHT???*
Do you rent bikes in your area?
Yea, this equals good times..!"
My friend took this as Elitist. I took it as a coversation that I've had with many a rider (including that same morning - minus the gear questions as I could see what he had on).
Personally I try not to ride with Squids/folks wearing little or no proper gear - they are the reason my insurance is as high as it is (in comparison to other bikes) and they do give several drivers reason to glare at sport bikers.
Is this position eliteist? Is the e-mail eliteist?
Looking for an honest opinion,
Revengel
I've gotten "flipped off" by squiddies here when I see them in the wife beater/board shorts and I'm (almost always) in my leathers. The head shake is only because I'm thinking "if you just fall on that helmet, that's fine but unlikely. that skin however is not (shake) likely to hold up all that well". If that's elitist, so be it but I think there is a better word somewhere for it.
Not sure if it's elitist or not, but it sure is confusing to me.
P.S.
You being from DC, I recommend to get some flat black paint and give Charlotte a proper makeover ASAP. Posted Image The Knight Saber can stay as is for now Posted Image
1. The belief that certain persons or members of certain classes or groups deserve favored treatment by virtue of their perceived superiority, as in intellect, social status, or financial resources.
2.
a. The sense of entitlement enjoyed by such a group or class.
b. Control, rule, or domination by such a group or class.
This is Elitist. You are making sure that you put your bike in the hands of the Elite. Seems to me that it is your bike and you are justified in doing so.
Last time I had my bikes back home, some buddies from high-school wanted to take them for test rides. Sorry boys, you are not of the caliber.
[image: View Post]revengel, on 08 June 2010 - 12:06 PM, said:
Personally I try not to ride with Squids/folks wearing little or no proper gear - they are the reason my insurance is as high as it is (in comparison to other bikes) and they do give several drivers reason to glare at sport bikers.
Is this position eliteist? Is the e-mail eliteist?
If you let your friend know this he may have taken umbrage for being a squid without saying so, referring to you as an elitist. Whatever! Seems like a mountain out of a mole-hill in reality. :blush:
I want to thank everyone who's replied to this - and hope more will do so. The biggest reason I'm asking is while I have my personal opinion it's based on viewing the world through my eyes. By asking other riders what they think I feel that I'll have a more truthful and/or accurate perspective.
If you know something the others don't and are trying to share your knowledge in an effort to better the others lives, they can either say "Thank you" or call you a knowitallelitista$$hole.
Know your audience and if your information isn't received as intended, just move on to another topic. Or just move on.
P.S.
Posted Image
[image: View Post]revengel, on 08 June 2010 - 12:31 PM, said:
PS - Charlotte will *always* be in stock colors.
:blush: :+1:
I'm sure your questions sounded elistist to him, just as his assumption that you'd let him ride your bike sounds elitist to me.
Riding gear just plain makes sense. I don't think anyone on the planet could argue that it's not worth wearing proper gear, even for a ride around the block. Explain your philosophy to the guy and try not to snicker, smirk or use multiple catch-phrases. "I'd rather sweat than bleed," may be funny (and true) to us, but to squids and other non-geared riders it sounds pompous and stupid. I think they just don't get it - and I'm sure they think the same thing about us.
My $0.02: If you are OK with a friend/relative test riding your bike, insist he wears a helmet, jacket, gloves, boots and jeans at a minimum.
Most of the people I know around me that ride are all harley riders. They all wear that super protective bandana and the leather vest of steel to protect them. I still preach gear, and I still get ragged that there is no way I'm comfortable in my mesh jacket. Thing is, comfort is two part, while I am a little hotter sitting still, I am much more comfortable riding the bike as I don't fear the idea of rash as much. I can see where he sees your email as elitist, but who cares? If you hadn't said what you did and he goes down you would wish you had said it anyways. Knowledge is power, spread the wealth.
Seems pretty reasonable if dude expects to ride your bike. The second reminder about gear might've been a bit much, but overall, just basic info you'd ask any rider.
It's the age of the privledged. That's all. It's your property, you decide who can ride it and who can't.
I have two buddies who have asked to ride my bike. I haven't and probably will never let either of them ride it. I know for fact that the one will immediately, without going more than 100 feet, try to wheelie it. Sorry. Never been on the bike before and pulling a wheelie doesn't make me feel good about letting you ride it. The second guy is new to riding, doesn't wear gear, and constantly tells stories about doing triple digits on the highway, just because. Not letting him ride it cause he's unskilled, wreckless, and a squid.
On the other hand, I have let my roommate ride my bike, who also had little experience, but wore gear (which I let him borrow), and was careful on the bike. Since I knew that he could handle a bike and wasn't going to do anything stupid, I felt comfortable letting him do so.
Honestly, if he wants to ride it so bad, he can go to a dealer and buy one for himself.
Personally, I don't believe that proper gear (or lack thereof) determines whether or not a rider is a "squid". I know life-long riders who are extremely cautious and skilled, but who decide not to wear ATGATT. Everyone has their own individual tolerance for risk--and that tolerance does not necessarily make one a safe/unsafe rider.
I don't think it sounded unreasonable or pretentious, but of course I'm of the same opinion (ATGATT), so to someone who only thinks a helmet is all the gear you need then it might sound like you're forcing your views, but you can't really worry about it if he took it the wrong way.
I'm not one to loan my bike(s) to anyone because its worth more to me than it is to anybody else though, and I don't have anybody in the family or close friends that ride
I do wonder how many t-shirt and shorts riders still don't wear gear after a bad road rash. My buddy at work had an unfortunate collision with a large dog and he swears that's the last time he ever rides without gloves. His helmet had a snap on visor that kept his face from getting messed up but burned a hole through the plastic. In my two low speed crashes (20-30mph) the total damage I took was a tiny scratch on my left pinky and a sore knee, but I would have been really hurting if I was sliding on my 100% cotton Perfect-T.
I keep it simple: If anyone wants to ride pillion, they have to be ATGATT. And I try to discourage male pillions, not that there's anything wrong with that!
And anyone who I let ride my bike has to be ATGATT. But so far, I've only let one person do that, my brother who's an experienced motorcyclist.
I dont think your conversation was elitist. However, I am very elitist when it comes to riding! I think if your afraid to get wet GO HOME! If your afraid of the cold! GO HOME! I live in Florida damn near year around riding, and people whine when it hits 40! Suit up and shut the fuck up is what I say!
I ride more the most mc club members! I believe if you have a bike you should ride it! Not look at it! If you can't keep up, GO HOME!
Needless to say my attitude usually has me riding alone but i'm kewl with it, My girl rides, and my friend rides, both as long and as hard as me, we all feel the same way (he's my best man and i'm marrying her). Where were you when it was raining? Where were you in January?? Now that it's sunny and warm you out, with your brand new leather chaps on acting hard! *smack* get back on you $30,000 Harley Dr. Smith and go home!!! Or better yet go for a ride and get out of the parking lot of hooters on bike night!
/rant off
Alot of the Rich Urban Bikers around here in Florida!
wear your gear and ride hard!!! Thats the only moto one should follow!
[image: View Post]whitecl0ver, on 08 June 2010 - 03:00 PM, said:
... Now that it's sunny and warm you out, with your brand new leather chaps on acting hard! *smack* get back on you $30,000 Harley Dr. Smith and go home!!! .....
:laughing6-hehe: funny stuff - have you got video?
[image: View Post]whitecl0ver, on 08 June 2010 - 03:00 PM, said:
...Or better yet go for a ride and get out of the parking lot of hooters on bike night! ...
They've got bike night at hooters!? I gotta get my ass back to Merica - God bless you guys and your hooters restaurants :fing02: - of course I only go for the hot chicken wings :pinocchio:
It's not elitist to demand proper gear if you're going to loan out your bike, makes total sense, but it might be to say you won't ride WITH someone that doesn't have it all.
As much as I hate cigarettes, it would be a shame to not hang with my close friend who just can't seem to quit. It would be my loss.
Not everyone wears ATGATT and that's their choice but it doesn't mean you can't be seen with them. Weather permitting, I wear it all(full leathers), most of the time I wear most of it(all but the pants), rarely do I wear just a few things(helmet, mesh jacket no boots). Sorry you wouldn't ride with me, I could show you some really great roads.
Unwritten rule in the crowd I ride with: Nobody rides anybody else's bike. Works for me. If they aren't smart enough to ride ATGATT, I don't want to ride with them. Same with people that think having a few beers while out riding is OK. Don't want to be near them while riding.
[image: View Post]rufussrgnt, on 08 June 2010 - 04:13 PM, said:
Unwritten rule in the crowd I ride with: Nobody rides anybody else's bike. Works for me.
If someone asks to ride your bike, Ask if you can have sex with their wife/girlfriend. Then you will
find out how much they want to ride.
I personall feel guilty if I ride with jeans on once a year, but all are allowed to do as they please, (on their own stuff).
Why are seatbelts manitory everywhere but helmets are not?
My own brother rides a hand shift panhead chopper AROUND gixxers on exit ramps in shorts and flip flops. [image: Posted Image]
Not smart, but he is an adult, heavily insured and rich. He has been injured on the race track and he DOES know better, but what can I do?
I have a real sense of satisfaction that after totalling 5 bikes and being in countless other accidents in the last 28 years, I have only broken the skin once, and that was my pinky where a glove gave up. If folks want to be skin-crayons, let em. cant save the world.
Now, about the DC area thing......................lets go ride in our gear and then talk about it as elitists shall we????
*** And yes, if you were wondering, those ARE Technomagnesio wheels.
You'd be surprised how many people think that riding motorcycles is akin to them riding their pushbikes as kids and teenagers dring the summers. They think that they don't do it enough anyway to start worrying about accidents that could kill, maim or scar them for life. Problem is for some, they actually end up shutting down from listening to you if they start thinking that you're just nagging them about it too much and you suddenly become a big detriment to their having fun with their riding........In the end, just say your peace about it nicely and briefly and don't push too hard as to make it seem you are interrogating them and you might be thinking that their just two ticks away from being a moronic squid..........You can only "save" so many out there, so don't get yourself too worried about it too. You just end up ruining your own riding experience with it in your head!
JMOs
I just want to thank everyone who's responded & voted in this thread - and I mean everyone. Like I said I wanted to have a much broader view than just my own two eyes.
To clear up a few points:
First - some additional information as I was vague on purpose. I wanted to concentrate on my e-mail to a person - my brother - who indicated that he was riding now. He has a family and can be responsible, but he's also the relative who would go quarry jumping & cow tipping. To the best of my knowledge he's never taken a safety course and given our history together I would have expected him to ask for any suggestions on bikes, gear (we're both 6' 5" w/ large feet & long arms/legs) before dropping cash on anything. But again I wanted to concentrate on my e-mail to him & my position of riding with Squids...which brings up the next point.
To me Squids are road lunatics. They took Biker Boyz as a training film and believe that Torque shows proper riding techniques. Shorts & tank tops have a magic force field...blah blah blah. I don't ride with these folks. I don't feel that a person *needs* to have full leathers to be responsible (I can't find a set of pants by the way - I'm a 32 waist w/ a 38 inseam) nor does having full gear make one a responsible rider. Blowing by a rider at 90+ MPH - while in his/her same lane - is Squid-like behavior IMHO. I prefer to ride with someone who's in full gear which (to me) means covered head to toe in at least denim - assuming that's the best you have. Some things I think everyone can/should have including a helmet, gloves, over the ankle footwear, jeans & jacket. I *don't* think everyone *must* wear Alpinestars. However if you're Michael Schumaker & you can afford Alpinestars - don't roll in a pair of Toughskins from JC Penny. Personal opinion.
The friend in question was actually my sister. Again I wanted to be vague to focus on the position/attitude/perspective that I presented in my e-mail & my position on riding with Squids (as defined in the previous paragraph). I've referred to her as my best friend but she is not a rider. I wanted the views of other riders - hence my post.
[image: View Post]timmythecop, on 08 June 2010 - 05:05 PM, said:
I personall feel guilty if I ride with jeans on once a year, but all are allowed to do as they please, (on their own stuff).
Why are seatbelts manitory everywhere but helmets are not?
My own brother rides a hand shift panhead chopper AROUND gixxers on exit ramps in shorts and flip flops. [image: Posted Image]
Not smart, but he is an adult, heavily insured and rich. He has been injured on the race track and he DOES know better, but what can I do?
I have a real sense of satisfaction that after totalling 5 bikes and being in countless other accidents in the last 28 years, I have only broken the skin once, and that was my pinky where a glove gave up. If folks want to be skin-crayons, let em. cant save the world.
Now, about the DC area thing......................lets go ride in our gear and then talk about it as elitists shall we????
*** And yes, if you were wondering, those ARE Technomagnesio wheels.
I'm just curious. Do those jeans ever end up tangled in that primary drive belt? Ouch.
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