VFR 1200 Headlights

Can someone get Miguel to tell us how effective the new headlights are?

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Yes sombody tell that goof off to do somthin!

I havent ridden at night but last night at work I took a buddy over to where it was parked at the plant and turned on the light, nice spread on low and the high beam worked great, the lower lamp is high and the lamp in the upper v section is the low beam. I will be definitly be looking into modulator headlights to make this bike get noticed by cagers, especially cagers comming at me!

[image: View Post]HispanicSlammer, on 24 June 2010 - 09:51 AM, said:

Yes sombody tell that goof off to do somthin!

I havent ridden at night but last night at work I took a buddy over to where it was parked at the plant and turned on the light, nice spread on low and the high beam worked great, the lower lamp is high and the lamp in the upper v section is the low beam. I will be definitly be looking into modulator headlights to make this bike get noticed by cagers, especially cagers comming at me!


Hey goof-off would you do something for a change!!! :laughing6-hehe:

You asked for it right?

Given that this is bike is a technology showpiece, I find it a bit disappointing that Honda didn't think to include HID lighting, at least as an option.

Maybe on the tourer, along with a decent-sized gas tank? Please? http://uweross.org/Uwe/smilies/Thanks.gif

-Uwe-

& Is there any room to mount an H.I.D. Kit

The twelve is a crap free bike, therefore no HID. The stock headlight works very well :fing02:

[image: View Post]Tamworth, on 25 June 2010 - 02:42 PM, said:

The twelve is a crap free bike, therefore no HID. The stock headlight works very well :fing02:

Seeing better @ night is crap?

Is there any major or even minor bikes that come standard with HID? Aftermarket HID kits are not designed with the arc in the right place as a standard bulb filiment so the reflectors are not optimized for it. I have read reviews where HID lights though more powerful actually performed worse than OEM bulbs due to the lack of focus - blinding oncomming drivers and just not putting the light were the user could see the road well.


I have seen the aircraft type lenses on the R1 and a few others but no standard HID? Does not seem like somthing that the average motorcycle consumer really asked for in a motorcycle. So I dont find it odd that it does not come standard with HID lights. Its technology that just has not taken off in terms of mass useage.

Cars from the factory with HID have leveling systems to keep the light focused where it should be: on the road and not in the eyes of oncoming drivers. These systems would add weight, expense, and complexity..Be careful what you wish for...

I'd like to see HID lights on bikes and adaptive lens that as you turn, the light goes to where you need it and not just into the ground. My 07 bimmer car has them, and they are great.....as you turn, the light s turn into the curve where you are going. :fing02:

[image: View Post]Luvmyvfr, on 27 June 2010 - 07:57 AM, said:

I'd like to see HID lights on bikes and adaptive lens that as you turn, the light goes to where you need it and not just into the ground. My 07 bimmer car has them, and they are great.....as you turn, the light s turn into the curve where you are going. :fing02:


Such a device would be hugely complicated, regardless there would be no way to activate such a device on a motorcycle.
Besides most modern bikes have it built in to the headlight spread pattern anyway

[image: View Post]creggur, on 27 June 2010 - 06:53 AM, said:

Cars from the factory with HID have leveling systems to keep the light focused where it should be: on the road and not in the eyes of oncoming drivers. These systems would add weight, expense, and complexity..Be careful what you wish for...


my last two bikes had H.I.D.s. They gave me better visability @ night. Motorcycle lights can be manually leveled & aimed. Like the HIDs from the factory on my car, there is a manual adjustment! If mounted properly on a motorcycle they will not "blind" oncomming traffic. In addition to that motorcycles are already @ a dis-advantage by having one light as oppose to two! I never expect any motorcycle to be fitted with HIDs standard. My original question was, is there any room to mount a compact HID kit? I was told that the fairings were relativley difficult to take off, therefore making it difficult to mount the ballast & ignigtor box required.

If you dont like HIDs on your bike, dont fit them!
If you dont think I should have HIDs on my bike, then dont answer my question! Then I will be charged with the task of figuring it out on my own!

[image: View Post]CJMajesty, on 27 June 2010 - 10:32 PM, said:

snip
My original question was, is there any room to mount a compact HID kit? I was told that the fairings were relativley difficult to take off, therefore making it difficult to mount the ballast & ignigtor box required.

snip


I suggest you remove your faring and investigate for yourself. Likely you'd find a location for the electronics..

[image: View Post]Tamworth, on 27 June 2010 - 09:53 PM, said:

[image: View Post]CJMajesty, on 27 June 2010 - 10:32 PM, said:

snip
My original question was, is there any room to mount a compact HID kit? I was told that the fairings were relativley difficult to take off, therefore making it difficult to mount the ballast & ignigtor box required.

snip


I suggest you remove your faring and investigate for yourself. Likely you'd find a location for the electronics..


Thank you!

[image: View Post]HispanicSlammer, on 24 June 2010 - 08:51 AM, said:

Yes sombody tell that goof off to do somthin!

I havent ridden at night but last night at work I took a buddy over to where it was parked at the plant and turned on the light, nice spread on low and the high beam worked great, the lower lamp is high and the lamp in the upper v section is the low beam. I will be definitly be looking into modulator headlights to make this bike get noticed by cagers, especially cagers comming at me!



HS, thanks for the info....I will look for you first night ride report soon! I don't think anyone would have been able to afford one of these bikes if Honda had attempted to put the HID lights on it! and I am usually blinding people with either of the systems on my 800's and I haven't done any adjusting to them!

[image: View Post]CJMajesty, on 27 June 2010 - 10:32 PM, said:

my last two bikes had H.I.D.s. They gave me better visability @ night. Motorcycle lights can be manually leveled & aimed. Like the HIDs from the factory on my car, there is a manual adjustment! If mounted properly on a motorcycle they will not "blind" oncomming traffic.

So you can manually adjust them 'on the fly' such as when you go over a bump and your HID's go slam into the eyes of an oncoming driver? This is what the systems in cars do - constantly adjust the level of the lights so this doesn't happen...

Quote

If you dont like HIDs on your bike, dont fit them!
If you dont think I should have HIDs on my bike, then dont answer my question! Then I will be charged with the task of figuring it out on my own!


Actually I was responding to HS talking about HIDs from the factory....Your temperment is noted and I will refrain from replying to your posts again...

[image: View Post]creggur, on 30 June 2010 - 01:02 PM, said:

[image: View Post]CJMajesty, on 27 June 2010 - 10:32 PM, said:

my last two bikes had H.I.D.s. They gave me better visability @ night. Motorcycle lights can be manually leveled & aimed. Like the HIDs from the factory on my car, there is a manual adjustment! If mounted properly on a motorcycle they will not "blind" oncomming traffic.

So you can manually adjust them 'on the fly' such as when you go over a bump and your HID's go slam into the eyes of an oncoming driver? This is what the systems in cars do - constantly adjust the level of the lights so this doesn't happen...

Quote

If you dont like HIDs on your bike, dont fit them!
If you dont think I should have HIDs on my bike, then dont answer my question! Then I will be charged with the task of figuring it out on my own!


Actually I was responding to HS talking about HIDs from the factory....Your temperment is noted and I will refrain from replying to your posts again...


Indeed, it's not quite as simple as adjusting your headlight.
Reflectors for HID are quite different than halogen and simply fitting an HID "H4" conversion bulb will result in serious glare problems for oncoming traffic, unless it's aimed so low as to be completely useless. HID conversion bulbs should be illegal if they aren't already

As a recent proponent of headlight modulators, wouldn't HID's eliminant the use of modulators?

[image: View Post]HispanicSlammer, on 27 June 2010 - 05:34 AM, said:

Is there any major or even minor bikes that come standard with HID? Aftermarket HID kits are not designed with the arc in the right place as a standard bulb filiment so the reflectors are not optimized for it. I have read reviews where HID lights though more powerful actually performed worse than OEM bulbs due to the lack of focus - blinding oncomming drivers and just not putting the light were the user could see the road well.


I have seen the aircraft type lenses on the R1 and a few others but no standard HID? Does not seem like somthing that the average motorcycle consumer really asked for in a motorcycle. So I dont find it odd that it does not come standard with HID lights. Its technology that just has not taken off in terms of mass useage.




FYI... for what it's worth... Harley does offer HID as an "Accessory Kit" for $525.00 on the touring bikes. As you would expect it is just the low beam. Only one I know of.

Quote

HID conversion bulbs should be illegal if they aren't already

They are illegal. But so are most aftermarket exhausts.

-Uwe-

I have installed an HID on mine... and it is pretty well focused, very usable bright light!
I am sure that on a right hand corner an oncoming car would be bothered by it...but hey
if that makes them take more notice of me (even in displeasure) that is safer for me!
AND I am ok with that!
Just my opinion!

Not all cars factory equiped with HIDs are auto leveling. I have one, it does not level on the fly, and there are plenty others that dont.

[image: View Post]VFR1200FA, on 02 July 2010 - 01:03 AM, said:

I have installed an HID on mine... and it is pretty well focused, very usable bright light!
I am sure that on a right hand corner an oncoming car would be bothered by it...but hey
if that makes them take more notice of me (even in displeasure) that is safer for me!
AND I am ok with that!
Just my opinion!


So you don't mind having a partially blinded driver coming towards you on a curve?

Luvmyvfr, on 27 June 2010 - 01:57 PM, said: I'd like to see HID lights on bikes and adaptive lens that as you turn, the light goes to where you need it and not just into the ground. My 07 bimmer car has them, and they are great.....as you turn, the light s turn into the curve where you are going. :fing02: The BMW K1600GT & GTL wil be the first to have an adaptive HID headlight. Tamworth, on 01 July 2010 - 12:52 AM, said: Reflectors for HID are quite different than halogen and simply fitting an HID "H4" conversion bulb will result in serious glare problems for oncoming traffic, unless it's aimed so low as to be completely useless. HID conversion bulbs should be illegal if they aren't already It's not necessary the HIDs that cause the glare but the quality of the reflector and lens too. Motorcycle headlights are not of the best quality. But as regular halogens are not that bright it is less of a problem than with HID. Here is a comparison of the light pattern of my 3rd gen VR with single H4 HID to a 5th gen with standard halogen bulbs. http://img812.imageshack.us/img812/6841/vfrhid.jpg

The 6th gen's headlights are outstanding IMO. If the 7th gen's are on par with those, I think they'd be good enough.

What I'd really like to see is more models outfitted with LED taillights standard. :idea3:

The BMW Youtube video is total crap. The example of regular headlight in a corner is nothing like I've ever seen. Most modern bikes light pattern is designed specifically to shed light into the corner as the bike leans.
As usual BMW comes up with a solution to a problem that just doesn't exist in the real world.

I'm all in favor of great lights and most bikes are more than adequate. But the search for lights to outshine the sun is not necessarily a good thing IF it is used to increase speeds beyond what is prudent. In most rural areas the deer will still jump in front of a vehicle regardless of how bright the lights are. If you feel you can ride faster at night because you can see 2 miles down the road, you dramatically decrease your ability to avoid deer and other animals that are not able to judge your distance and speed because they are blinded and you cannot make dramatic moves to the next lane as you can at slower speeds.

However, for searing the retinas of the brain dead cagers day and night, a truly great option.

[image: View Post]Luvmyvfr, on 27 June 2010 - 07:57 AM, said:

I'd like to see HID lights on bikes and adaptive lens that as you turn, the light goes to where you need it and not just into the ground. My 07 bimmer car has them, and they are great.....as you turn, the light s turn into the curve where you are going. :fing02:



As you turn the steering wheel the Bimmer's headlights turn...interesting to think about potential ways to accomplish this with the least amount of additional weight and complexity on a bike such as the VFR.

[image: View Post]cornercarver, on 07 July 2010 - 01:37 PM, said:

[image: View Post]Luvmyvfr, on 27 June 2010 - 07:57 AM, said:

I'd like to see HID lights on bikes and adaptive lens that as you turn, the light goes to where you need it and not just into the ground. My 07 bimmer car has them, and they are great.....as you turn, the light s turn into the curve where you are going. :fing02:



As you turn the steering wheel the Bimmer's headlights turn...interesting to think about potential ways to accomplish this with the least amount of additional weight and complexity on a bike such as the VFR.


Ever turn your cell phone 90 deg. only to have the text rotate accordingly? It is easily done for pennies these days. But then again, decisions are made on what features to add or subtract from a vehicle based on pennies it seems...that or product positioning strategies.

Brian

[image: View Post]DDO-VFR, on 07 July 2010 - 03:44 PM, said:

snip

Ever turn your cell phone 90 deg. only to have the text rotate accordingly? It is easily done for pennies these days.
snip

Brian


:laughing6-hehe: A motorcycle does not operate on the same principals as a cell phone :laughing6-hehe:

[image: View Post]Tamworth, on 07 July 2010 - 02:00 PM, said:

[image: View Post]DDO-VFR, on 07 July 2010 - 03:44 PM, said:

snip

Ever turn your cell phone 90 deg. only to have the text rotate accordingly? It is easily done for pennies these days.
snip

Brian


:laughing6-hehe: A motorcycle does not operate on the same principals as a cell phone :laughing6-hehe:


A great addition to the discussion... :computer-noworky:

His point is probably more that the sensors to check lean angle, steering position etc could theoretically be so small they fit inside a phone. The iphone actually has a 3-axis gyroscope built in at this point.

Unfortunately, I think the data collection hardware is not the packaging challenge; it is the mechanical bits that would reliably and precisely move the lighting components that are the relatively bulky/heavy items.

[image: View Post]DDO-VFR, on 07 July 2010 - 03:44 PM, said:

[image: View Post]cornercarver, on 07 July 2010 - 01:37 PM, said:

[image: View Post]Luvmyvfr, on 27 June 2010 - 07:57 AM, said:

I'd like to see HID lights on bikes and adaptive lens that as you turn, the light goes to where you need it and not just into the ground. My 07 bimmer car has them, and they are great.....as you turn, the light s turn into the curve where you are going. :fing02:



As you turn the steering wheel the Bimmer's headlights turn...interesting to think about potential ways to accomplish this with the least amount of additional weight and complexity on a bike such as the VFR.


Ever turn your cell phone 90 deg. only to have the text rotate accordingly? It is easily done for pennies these days. But then again, decisions are made on what features to add or subtract from a vehicle based on pennies it seems...that or product positioning strategies.

Brian



You have a valid point regarding the accelerometer in most small devices these days, but I am not convinced that me turning my phone 90 degress to view a larger video screen has the same physics as bike pulling close to a1G in a lean on a high speed sweeper with a slight dip in the pavement that changes the lateral force to a 43 degree downward angle.

Still, could be a good start.

BTW, I will send you several pennies and you can send me several accelerometers, deal? :biggrin:

[image: View Post]cornercarver, on 07 July 2010 - 02:14 PM, said:

You have a valid point regarding the accelerometer in most small devices these days, but I am not convinced that me turning my phone 90 degress to view a larger video screen has the same physics as bike pulling close to a1G in a lean on a high speed sweeper with a slight dip in the pavement that changes the lateral force to a 43 degree downward angle.



No, but playing an F1 racing or flight simulator game on your iPad is exactly the same physics. :goofy:

Hmmm... someone finally found something missing on the ultra majestic 7th gen?? :ohmy:
I'm surprised someone did as Honda seemed to have thrown everything at it except their kitchen sink! :goofy:
Wouldn't be surprised if Honda envetually adds airbags to the bike in later production as I though I've heard that they have been planning to do on their tourers.

Beck
95 VFR

[image: View Post]carlitos92, on 07 July 2010 - 04:20 PM, said:

[image: View Post]cornercarver, on 07 July 2010 - 02:14 PM, said:

You have a valid point regarding the accelerometer in most small devices these days, but I am not convinced that me turning my phone 90 degress to view a larger video screen has the same physics as bike pulling close to a1G in a lean on a high speed sweeper with a slight dip in the pavement that changes the lateral force to a 43 degree downward angle.



No, but playing an F1 racing or flight simulator game on your iPad is exactly the same physics. :goofy:



I understand that the physics that are programed into the gaming experience are more real than in the past, but are you saying that an accelerometer that cost mere pennies can differentiate between a person standing relatively still (or walking - riding in a car) moving an object in their hands to make an action occur on the screen and an actual object (a bike) moving in three dimensions at speed and controlling in real time the aim of the headlights?

I see this as being a step beyond the capabilities of electronic suspension or magnetic dampening but I no longer subscribe to Popular Mechanincs so I may have missed some low cost developments. :goofy:

[image: View Post]Beck, on 07 July 2010 - 04:27 PM, said:

Hmmm... someone finally found something missing on the ultra majestic 7th gen?? :ohmy:
I'm surprised someone did as Honda seemed to have thrown everything at it except their kitchen sink! :goofy:
Wouldn't be surprised if Honda envetually adds airbags to the bike in later production as I though I've heard that they have been planning to do on their tourers.

Beck
95 VFR



I thnk you are correct regarding airbags and the VFR1200T. The V-4 was Soichiro's favorite engine layout and we will se more iterations of this powerplant to come.

[image: View Post]cornercarver, on 07 July 2010 - 02:29 PM, said:

I understand that the physics that are programed into the gaming experience are more real than in the past, but are you saying that an accelerometer that cost mere pennies can differentiate between a person standing relatively still (or walking - riding in a car) moving an object in their hands to make an action occur on the screen and an actual object (a bike) moving in three dimensions at speed and controlling in real time the aim of the headlights?


Sure, why not? :fing02:

For one, "pennies" is hyperbole. But they can cost a bit more than that and not break the bank, even on a stratospherically-priced sport-tourer, as long as the customer sees a beneficial value in it.

Second, I don't think we are talking about a lighting system that changes as rapidly as a magnetorheological suspension. The automotive adaptive lighting systems I know of steer beams right and left and may compensate for vehicle loading (suspension sag, etc). They do not self-level fast enough for potholes, speed bumps, etc. So, technology, right now, defines "real time" a little more slowly than you might think.

Third, like I said earlier, the new phones coming out have gyroscopes in them. Will they get you to the moon? Maybe not, but their accuracy is far greater than what is needed for my kids playing RPGs.

I don't own stock in any sensor manufacturers, nor am I in the market for a new bike - but I think it'd be neat to see bikes catch up to the automotive world in this respect, and as I think DDO was trying to say, the technology is there, IF it is marketable. Maybe it isn't. :unsure:

[image: View Post]slipknot, on 07 July 2010 - 01:10 PM, said:

I'm all in favor of great lights and most bikes are more than adequate. But the search for lights to outshine the sun is not necessarily a good thing IF it is used to increase speeds beyond what is prudent. In most rural areas the deer will still jump in front of a vehicle regardless of how bright the lights are. If you feel you can ride faster at night because you can see 2 miles down the road, you dramatically decrease your ability to avoid deer and other animals that are not able to judge your distance and speed because they are blinded and you cannot make dramatic moves to the next lane as you can at slower speeds.

However, for searing the retinas of the brain dead cagers day and night, a truly great option.


I agree, better headlights are not a gift so you can speed.
But I for one am comfortable with more light than I get from the standard H4's (and I mean standard H4's not the HONDA mutants) on my 5th gen.
I would definitely be looking into the new HID kit offered here TW and Code;s HID KIT for the 7th gen.
It always has the plus of using less watts than a normal halogen bulb.

As for what is exactly legal, How many of us have an aftermarket pipe? The are illegal, but does you shop fail you on your inspection??