The issue features several comparisons and one pitted the VFR vs the Duc. I think the reporting by Blake Conner was a bit prone to hyberbole. For instance the article talks about the comparitive handling, and they already stated how the wide bars, upright position and lighter weight of the duc makes turning the duc easier than the VFR and I can accept that. But then they go off into hyperbole land when Conner quotied test rider/associate editor Mark Cernicky who said this about the VFR while riding the duc, "I looked down the road and watched Blake put one hand on his hip, like sportbike riders sick of leaning forward tend to do, and comfortably snickered."
And then said, "The Honda feels very heavy compared to the tall-bar Multistrada," said Cernicky. " I felt like the font and rear wheels were in different zip codes and I was in the middle trying to send the bike messages about what I wanted it to do." This attempt to lable the VFR as slow and ponderous was belied by their own statement later:
"As Cernicky and I discovered while riding these bikes back-to-back on a wife variety of roads, getting to the same point in roughly the same amount of time doesn't always tell the full story. The two very different Vee engines ultimately produce similar results in terms of performance, but we were suprised how differently they performed under sport-riding conditions."
The article also complained of the VFR electronics hampering acceleration in first and second gears and I don't know if that only applies to lower rpm acceleration or even when in the power band. It wasn't clear to me. They did say that "the VFR doesn't even start working until you're going over a hundred--hello, autobahn!"
The testers also complained about the Ducs irregular fueling at crusing speed. ". . . .the engine in our Sport still surges and hunts a bit when you're trying to hold a steady throttle, especially between 3000 and 4000 rpm; unfortunately, this range is exactly where the tachomoter reads when sixth gear is selected between 60 and 70 mph."
In all it seemed liked the authors and testers were predisposed to liking the duc better as there was certainly more written about the power characteristics of the duc mill vs the Honda mill. The Honda won the numbers war though with the quickest 0-60 2.6 vs 2.8 and quarter 10.20 @134.82 vs 10.49 @ 131.03 and top end at 157 vs 146. I know the Honda is electronically limited at 157, not sure about the duc. Price for the duc is listed at $19,995 and the Honda is $15,999. Both nice bikes but I don't like the beak on the duc. I think the authors think the duc won by a nose. :pinocchio:
The summary was that the VFR is the best multiple timezone mount while the Duc is the best multi-surface bike.
Thanks,
I'll have to pick up a copy. On a recent visit to Houston, a friend who owns a Honda/Duc dealership gave me the grand tour of both the VFR and the MS12S (no demo models though :sad: ). I have to admit, the Duc is attractive, mostly for similar reasons BMW GSs are attractive - you can go places on them I wouldn't take a VFR. I can't count the number of times I've been riding in the TX hill country and seen an interesting dirt road that's just gnarly enough that I won't take the viffer down it.
What the Duc offers that the GS doesn't is legitimate sporting credentials and the on-the-fly electronic suspension/engine mapping selection is just flat cool. I'd really like to ride one, but I'm afraid of the consequences. I don't have enough organs or first born offspring.
What do you expect from a subjective review?
I can easily see the Ducati feeling like it handles better; the S model will have Ohlins suspension, probably >100 pounds lighter, shorter wheelbase, probably more aggressive rake/trail, etc
No biggie, but I believe you're comparing apples-to-oranges on the pricing difference:
"With the base Multistrada 1200 starting at $14,995 MSRP, adding the optional ABS systems will raise the cost to $16,495. The 2010 Ducati Multistrada 1200S Sport will retail for $19,995, and include Ducati-�hlins Electronic Suspension, ABS, Ducati Traction Control, a tire pressure monitoring system, as well as various carbon fiber bits. Rounding out the pricing scheme is the Ducati Multistrada 1200S Touring model, which will also retail for $19,995, It will be identical to the Multistrada 1200S, except instead of having carbon fiber pieces, it will sport heated grips, a centerstand, and hard luggage."
Seems to me, at least on paper, that you get a lot more bang for your buck with the Ducati. I'd like to ride both on the same day. Until then, I'm leaning heavily towards the MS1200S.
I've seen and sat on both bikes but have ridden neither. While the new VFR is an attractive bike (that looks better in person than in pix IMO) the new Duc is a head-turner. The beak isn't so bad in person either.
I think most mags, esp. those that are more heavily sportbike-focused, are going to be pro-Duc biased. Right or wrong, they're just predisposed to like Italian bikes, esp. Ducs.
But I also agree with Jeremy - the new Duc MS is more "sportbikish" than the new VFR. I could see the Duc being my next bike - if and when I could afford one! :laugh:
[image: View Post]vfrjim2002, on 02 July 2010 - 12:48 PM, said:
Thanks,
I'll have to pick up a copy. On a recent visit to Houston, a friend who owns a Honda/Duc dealership gave me the grand tour of both the VFR and the MS12S (no demo models though :sad: ). I have to admit, the Duc is attractive, mostly for similar reasons BMW GSs are attractive - you can go places on them I wouldn't take a VFR. I can't count the number of times I've been riding in the TX hill country and seen an interesting dirt road that's just gnarly enough that I won't take the viffer down it.
What the Duc offers that the GS doesn't is legitimate sporting credentials and the on-the-fly electronic suspension/engine mapping selection is just flat cool. I'd really like to ride one, but I'm afraid of the consequences. I don't have enough organs or first born offspring.
I don't think the Mulit is quite as capable an off-roader as a GS. It's basically a dual-sportish sport touring bike.
I did not get much from the article that I already did not know, I am aware of the 1at and 2nd gear governing that is true. However after riding the bike set up at the dealer and then after I got to it with a screw driver, cranking off some rebound on the forks and shock, then adding a full turn of preload on the shock - the piggy nature of the 600 lb frame becomes much less of a problem. I dont have any experience with the duc but I am intrigued by it. I am not sure why they seem to get put into the same catagory together, same engine size i guess?
I have read the full article and for the life of me - I too (same as Slammer) can't figure out why they've lumped these two bikes together for a comparison test????
I'm not interested in multi surface riding when I'm on my VFR - so why pit it against a bike that "can" do multi surface?
I dunno.........
1200cc, most competent street bike.
Same mission, they're both sport tourers that can be set up and handle either end of the sport/touring spectrum.
I don't know, I still like my 5th gen :fing02:
What they don't tell you is the Duc will cost you big $$$$$$ every few thousand miles for dealer service where the Honda can be done at home for pennies per mile. I work with a few guys that are Duc owners, tell me its not a cheap bike to own.
:offtopic:
Check the adds in that mag, I'll bet you Duc has more than Honda. Who is going to buy add space in a mag that doesn't give your bike top reviews.
[image: View Post]jaimev34, on 02 July 2010 - 10:29 PM, said:
I don't think the Mulit is quite as capable an off-roader as a GS. It's basically a dual-sportish sport touring bike.
You're spot on. While I haven't turned a wheel on the MS I've put a few miles on a buddy's 12GS. Properly set up and shod w/ the right rubber, the GS seems much more dirt savvy than the MS could ever be. I can't imagine an MS with TKCs on it bouncing up a boulder strewn mountain in Mexico. A GS? Sure, I read ADV. What attracts me to the MS, other than my propeller beanie side, is it's ability to manage the Sport side of riding and still explore interesting looking dirt roads and moderate two tracks.
@ dweese - Maintenance has always been Duc's albatross. From what I understand, on the new motors they've extended the valve check interval to (i think) 15k. That will help. I get near one though, and I just can't help myself. I just like looking at them. The swing arm and rear sprocket/carrier are just damn sexy. There I said it. I think the rear suspension/final drive is sexy. :blush:
We'll see. Not that it matters all that much. My viffer
might bring a 20% down payment on an MS. I'm pretty sure that $20k motorcycles are a wee bit out of my ballpark. It's fun to dream though.
Ducati will void the warranty if the scheduled services are not done by an authorized dealer. And some dealers are in the neighborhood of $1000 per service. That alone is enough to run me off.
[image: View Post]slipknot, on 06 July 2010 - 09:05 PM, said:
Ducati will void the warranty if the scheduled services are not done by an authorized dealer. And some dealers are in the neighborhood of $1000 per service. That alone is enough to run me off.
If that's true, I'll have to cross it off my list (it was #1).
[image: View Post]slipknot, on 06 July 2010 - 07:05 PM, said:
Ducati will void the warranty if the scheduled services are not done by an authorized dealer. And some dealers are in the neighborhood of $1000 per service. That alone is enough to run me off.
I was just about to call BS when I thought I'd double-check on the Ducati website. I had no idea they could do this. I'll stick to Honda, thanks... :warranty:
Ducati website said:
"To maintain the validity of the warranty, three services must be carried out at 1000 km (or six months), 10,000 km (or 12 months) and 20,000 km (or 24 months) by any official Ducati dealer. Warranty will be not honoured for motorcycles repaired by unofficial Dealer networks, for improper use, for bikes with non-genuine parts, for damages incurred from accidents, overloads, negligent use, or improper maintenance."
^^^^
Edit: My goof; the above is from the international site and not the USA site. As stated below, the Magnusson-Moss Act probably governs this in the US. Some of us elsewhere may be getting the Ducati shaft, tho...
[image: View Post]slipknot, on 06 July 2010 - 09:05 PM, said:
Ducati will void the warranty if the scheduled services are not done by an authorized dealer.
That would not be legal (at least in the US), see Magnuson-Moss
Warranty Act.
The Duc 1200 was my first choice heading into next season, but having sat on the VFR1200 I must say it is growing on me (still have yet to test ride).
I do agree though, it's like comparing apples & oranges... I just hope the VFR comes in either white or gunmetal in 2011... Burgundy has never appealed to me :blush:
[image: View Post]slipknot, on 06 July 2010 - 09:05 PM, said:
Ducati will void the warranty if the scheduled services are not done by an authorized dealer. And some dealers are in the neighborhood of $1000 per service. That alone is enough to run me off.
In some countries perhaps, but they cannot legally do that in the USA.
[image: View Post]slipknot, on 07 July 2010 - 09:05 AM, said:
Ducati will void the warranty if the scheduled services are not done by an authorized dealer. And some dealers are in the neighborhood of $1000 per service. That alone is enough to run me off.
I think that info is way off. I've had my Duc 1098 for 2 years, and now own a new 1198S. I perform all oil changes at home, plus light service and adjustments. it only goes into the dealership for major service (1,000km, and every 12k kms thereafter).
Service intervals are 12,500 kms (valve adjustment) and 24,000kms (timing belt replacement & valve adjustment). At its first service, the 1098's valves were found to be well within spec and no adjustment was necessary. Labour charges at my single-brand Duc dealership was exactly what was asked for at other, multi-brand dealerships in my area. The bikes had been running flawlessly, except for a radiator leak that was replaced under warranty within 3 days.
Ducati is known for their very generous warranty. A friend with a 5 year-old, 75,000km Multistrada had his engine repaired (both cylinder heads replaced) free of parts charges (he footed half the labour charges).
I think you will find that is pretty much the experience of most owners if you troll through their forums.
[image: View Post]jeremy556, on 06 July 2010 - 06:46 PM, said:
[image: View Post]slipknot, on 06 July 2010 - 09:05 PM, said:
Ducati will void the warranty if the scheduled services are not done by an authorized dealer.
That would not be legal (at least in the US), see Magnuson-Moss
Warranty Act.
If the consumer knows prior to purchase that this is one of the warranty conditions, is it still in violation of the Mag-Moss Act? I don't see it anywhere in the act text.
[image: View Post]HispanicSlammer, on 02 July 2010 - 11:41 PM, said:
I did not get much from the article that I already did not know, I am aware of the 1at and 2nd gear governing that is true. However after riding the bike set up at the dealer and then after I got to it with a screw driver, cranking off some rebound on the forks and shock, then adding a full turn of preload on the shock - the piggy nature of the 600 lb frame becomes much less of a problem. I dont have any experience with the duc but I am intrigued by it. I am not sure why they seem to get put into the same catagory together, same engine size i guess?
About the same here. Those two bikes are not even close to being the similar.
I for one have very little interest in a DUC DS.
Its not the bike I'd be buying to take on a Sport Touring trip.
Now If Ducati was to say bring back the ST3 with the new engine, then they would have an apple to compare to the VFR1200.
End of thread · 22 posts recovered Wayback Machine snapshot 21 Jul 2010