Pre-load shifting on a 6th Gen

My new to me VFR is a delight. And the gearbox compared to the "box of rocks" from my K1200RS (sold) is great. The bike now has 7.5K on it, about 3K in the last 2 months. Yesterday I "had to run some errands" on a beautiful New England day and I started to play with pre-load shifting on the VFR.

Within a few miles, I achieved almost undetectable upshifting with just a little pre-load on the lever prior to moving up. What a delight, no snap in, or clunks to be heard. Pre-load downshifting also works, but I don't have it "undectectable" like the upshift.

Not necessarily a safety issue, but sure makes riding that much more fun when you sound like you have a paddleshifting automatic bike due to the smoothness of the transitions. The gearbox in general seems to be getting smoother with more miles.

Any thoughts or input on this?

I sometimes do that too, only not from 1st into 2nd as then it is more jerky.

Preload shifting is the way to go. It may feel a bit jerky sometimes if you're just giving it 1/4 throttle and not in a rush, but everywhere beyond turtle-pace, it feels awesome.

Are you talking about clutchless upshifting? Or are you still pulling the clutch in part way?

I've found that a more gentle foot combined with a partial clutch pull yields smoother shifts. The more I try to force the shift lever, the more clunky it gets.

[image: View Post]SEBSPEED, on 30 September 2010 - 10:36 AM, said:

Are you talking about clutchless upshifting? Or are you still pulling the clutch in part way?


At the speeds you go around curves, means you are smooth with it all(gas/brake/clutch/shifting)..........Or you'd lose it.......So you are already doing it right......... But there's a need to learn some more advanced shifting methods for the people that have just been gear-jamming.... Pressurizing the shift-pedal & pressurizing the clutch at the same time is working in the direction of a technique for shifting smoothly....To get out of the habit of just stepping on the shifter, but learn the matching of rpm's with the motor/rear wheel, etc......... so by pushing on both pedal / c-lever to the edge of engagement, with out following though till you're ready(meaning rpm control).....it cuts the lag time that the clutch will be disengaged, which in turn will make a smoother shift............... It's probably what people use to call, slipping the clutch.... but adding in the awareness of also slipping the shifter the same way..............

[image: View Post]SEBSPEED, on 30 September 2010 - 10:36 AM, said:

Are you talking about clutchless upshifting? Or are you still pulling the clutch in part way?



I was not specifially talking about clutchless shifts, (although you can use preload on that also). Here I was referring to lightly preloading (some light pressure) on the shifter prior to the act of shifting and then using the clutch to upshift/downshift. (Hence the term pre-load which gets the shifter preloaded for the actual shift). You have to be careful not to exert too much pressure or you may find you way into false neutrals on some bikes (not the VFR I am sure).

Hope that helps.

So the technique is:

• Preload the gear you are going to use
  
• Throttle off clutch in
  
• Change gear
  
• Throttle on/clutch out

[image: View Post]mikeodial, on 30 September 2010 - 04:02 PM, said:

[image: View Post]SEBSPEED, on 30 September 2010 - 10:36 AM, said:

Are you talking about clutchless upshifting? Or are you still pulling the clutch in part way?


I was not specifially talking about clutchless shifts, (although you can use preload on that also). Here I was referring to lightly preloading (some light pressure) on the shifter prior to the act of shifting and then using the clutch to upshift/downshift. (Hence the term pre-load which gets the shifter preloaded for the actual shift). You have to be careful not to exert too much pressure or you may find you way into false neutrals on some bikes (not the VFR I am sure).

Hope that helps.

So the technique is:

• Preload the gear you are going to use
  
• Throttle off clutch in
  
• Change gear
  
• Throttle on/clutch out

I'm not the sharpest but I tried to get my head around all that and came up empty.

Normally I just upshift with a partial decrease on throttle. That's all. I imagine that my brain already delegated part of this process to my tendons at both ends. No idea. I just go, down-throttle-shift, all day any road.

[image: View Post]VFRSuperfreak, on 30 September 2010 - 04:40 PM, said:

[image: View Post]mikeodial, on 30 September 2010 - 04:02 PM, said:

[image: View Post]SEBSPEED, on 30 September 2010 - 10:36 AM, said:

Are you talking about clutchless upshifting? Or are you still pulling the clutch in part way?


I was not specifially talking about clutchless shifts, (although you can use preload on that also). Here I was referring to lightly preloading (some light pressure) on the shifter prior to the act of shifting and then using the clutch to upshift/downshift. (Hence the term pre-load which gets the shifter preloaded for the actual shift). You have to be careful not to exert too much pressure or you may find you way into false neutrals on some bikes (not the VFR I am sure).

Hope that helps.

So the technique is:

• Preload the gear you are going to use
  
• Throttle off clutch in
  
• Change gear
  
• Throttle on/clutch out

I'm not the sharpest but I tried to get my head around all that and came up empty.

Normally I just upshift with a partial decrease on throttle. That's all. I imagine that my brain already delegated part of this process to my tendons at both ends. No idea. I just go, down-throttle-shift, all day any road.


There are people that don't know what is going on with the shifting process...IE; can't get it in 1st while stopped(the fix is to engage the clutch just enough to make parts move), because they pull the clutch in all the way, so now some parts aren't moving and it won't engage...... Then we have people that are using too much clutch to run though the gears, because when they pull the clutch in to much, which allows the a gap in time for the rpm's and drivetrain to lose the momentum, and lose sync.......

This preloading is just a way to explain what needs to be done to make it run smoothly..... For the people that shift smoothly without thinking about it .... it may seem like "What's the fuss"......... But for people that are not getting it done this is a step by step how to..........

Like there are people that don't know that they steering their bike with their hands(think they're leaning).... so we tell them to steer the opposite way we want the bike to go.............

I think it's good when some training techniques can be explained in writing..... When I got my 1st bike in '65 I didn't understand how the bike gears worked at all and would start by pushing down once and go.... Because I thought they ment when you push down your in 1st.... needless to say I burnt the clutch out in a couple of days........They were nice enough to replace it at no charge even though I was totaly at fault..... But they did take the time to make sure I understood how it worked this time..... It sure turned me into a non gear-jammer from that point on.... as I became an "OTR" semi driver that got complements for not waking up the sleeper......

[image: View Post]mikeodial, on 30 September 2010 - 04:02 PM, said:

[image: View Post]SEBSPEED, on 30 September 2010 - 10:36 AM, said:

Are you talking about clutchless upshifting? Or are you still pulling the clutch in part way?



I was not specifially talking about clutchless shifts, (although you can use preload on that also). Here I was referring to lightly preloading (some light pressure) on the shifter prior to the act of shifting and then using the clutch to upshift/downshift. (Hence the term pre-load which gets the shifter preloaded for the actual shift). You have to be careful not to exert too much pressure or you may find you way into false neutrals on some bikes (not the VFR I am sure).

Hope that helps.

So the technique is:

• Preload the gear you are going to use
• Throttle off clutch in
• Change gear
• Throttle on/clutch out

Yep. These are the rewards of experience. I've tried, with limited success to teach folks. It seems like you're on to it. Now, if you work at it, it will become second nature to the point that you won't be thinking about the individual actions any more. You'll be riding and think, "OK, let's upshift," and it will just happen. To a bystander it will sound like an automatic or paddle shifted tranny.

It can work just as smoothly on the way down the box. You just have to learn how to blip the throttle, time the clutch and throttle and slightly feather the clutch. Again, with practice you'll be able to do it unconciously and it will sound like an F1 car going down the gears.

This technique is explained in great detail in Lee Parks' Total Control - and it has increased the smoothness of my shifting immeasurably. A "must read" for any motorcyclist as far as I'm concerned.

How it is explained in the book:
Normal riding upshift - Throttle 50% - preload shifter - simultaneously throttle to 25% and stab clutch - throttle back to 50%.
Using this technique the bike will simply snick into the higher gear smooth as butter.

Speed-shifting upshift - Throttle 100% - preload shifter - simultaneously throttle to 50% w/ no clutch - throttle back to 100%
The bike will smoothly shift into the higher gear with no clutch and minimum loss of acceleration.

Downshifting is a bit more complex and requires more practice to master as it includes use of the clutch in both situations and blipping the throttle to match engine and rear wheel speed. But the preload and clutch stab is the same - only you throw in a quick 25% increase in throttle during the clutch engagement to bring the revs up for the clutch release.

[image: View Post]creggur, on 30 September 2010 - 05:59 PM, said:

This technique is explained in great detail in Lee Parks' Total Control - and it has increased the smoothness of my shifting immeasurably. A "must read" for any motorcyclist as far as I'm concerned.

How it is explained in the book:
Normal riding upshift - Throttle 50% - preload shifter - simultaneously throttle to 25% and stab clutch - throttle back to 50%.
Using this technique the bike will simply snick into the higher gear smooth as butter.

Speed-shifting upshift - Throttle 100% - preload shifter - simultaneously throttle to 50% w/ no clutch - throttle back to 100%
The bike will smoothly shift into the higher gear with no clutch and minimum loss of acceleration.

Downshifting is a bit more complex and requires more practice to master as it includes use of the clutch in both situations and blipping the throttle to match engine and rear wheel speed. But the preload and clutch stab is the same - only you throw in a quick 25% increase in throttle during the clutch engagement to bring the revs up for the clutch release.


"Total Control", I'm reading now, but haven't gotten to the shifting part yet........... Good book so far....

[image: View Post]Monk, on 30 September 2010 - 11:23 AM, said:

[image: View Post]SEBSPEED, on 30 September 2010 - 10:36 AM, said:

Are you talking about clutchless upshifting? Or are you still pulling the clutch in part way?


At the speeds you go around curves, means you are smooth with it all(gas/brake/clutch/shifting)..........Or you'd lose it.......So you are already doing it right......... But there's a need to learn some more advanced shifting methods for the people that have just been gear-jamming.... Pressurizing the shift-pedal & pressurizing the clutch at the same time is working in the direction of a technique for shifting smoothly....To get out of the habit of just stepping on the shifter, but learn the matching of rpm's with the motor/rear wheel, etc......... so by pushing on both pedal / c-lever to the edge of engagement, with out following though till you're ready(meaning rpm control).....it cuts the lag time that the clutch will be disengaged, which in turn will make a smoother shift............... It's probably what people use to call, slipping the clutch.... but adding in the awareness of also slipping the shifter the same way..............


I was asking about his title, he didn't mention using the clutch, so wasn't sure which he had discovered. Being smooth feels good!

I prefer a little blip of the clutch with my upshifts, and religiously blip gas/use clutch on downshifts. I occasionally do clutchless downshifts while coasting to downhill stops, with no hands on the bars so I can stretch. I don't like to do it because you have to do it just right or numerous parts start complaining about being overstressed...

[image: View Post]Monk, on 30 September 2010 - 06:48 PM, said:

"Total Control", I'm reading now, but haven't gotten to the shifting part yet........... Good book so far....


Damn, I wish someone would have told me there were gears on my VFR! I've been riding in first for the last 70k miles!

:goofy:

[image: View Post]BaileyRock, on 01 October 2010 - 05:09 PM, said:

[image: View Post]Monk, on 30 September 2010 - 06:48 PM, said:

"Total Control", I'm reading now, but haven't gotten to the shifting part yet........... Good book so far....


Damn, I wish someone would have told me there were gears on my VFR! I've been riding in first for the last 70k miles!

:goofy:


Hey Kev, someone told me recently where to get OEM sprockets and Honda OEM parts cheap!! Let me know if you need gears and I can point you in the right direction. :beer:

Actually, I think you are fibbing......I've seen you riding and you were in at least 2nd gear.....WFO.... :goofy: