The tale of the tail....(long post)...

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As noted in previous posts, I consider the VFR1200 stock seat to be the WORST seat I have ever sat on, on a motorcycle. The 1/4 foam glued to the tail section of my track bike was more comfortable. After last weekend's ride, I had enough. I had to do something.

I was looking at Corbin's new Gunfighter. I did not really like the one I had for my 6th gen and sold it for a Sergent back then. I also had a Sargent on my 3rd gen and another bike....so, I called Sargent. I then realized they were not too far from me, just over in Jacksonville, FL. Road trip? Hmmm.

I spoke with Troy in sales & the shop, and he said if I could get there early in the morning this week, they could remake and fit the seat for me. I told him I would see him the next morning.

I loaded up the VFR (yes, I trailered it..blah..too many reasons why...6 hours on the superslab in the dark mostly...) and headed over about 3:30am this morning. Arriving around 10:00am (I forgot about the time zone change, duh) I found Troy and the gang waiting for the "guy with the new VFR."


Look quick, you might miss it!
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The only sign!
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Into the shop and....the computerized pattern cutting machine for production at the center of the shop.
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To the service and sales window.
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As soon as I got unloaded they went to work. The foam specialist came out to the bike and the three of us went over what I thought the problems were, or rather as it turned out, I described what was happening to my ass on rides. As we talked, he and Troy asked questions about riding style, body placement on the seat, and what I expected to get out of a seat rebuild. After helping me to better articulate my issues, he went to start on reshaping the seat and coming up with a rough foam layout. First he cut out the most of the stock foam and laid a new foam base, then went on to the initial shaping of the seat.


Cutting down Honda's original foam.
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Adding new foam to build the shape.
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Shaping the seat to fit me.
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In the meantime, Troy took me in to show me their rather low-key, nondescript facility. I got the in-depth tour as I watched the crew ( and they really are artisans, as I watched and learned over the next couple of hours) work in their areas. Sargent makes their own seat molds for seat pans, builds and install the hardware, makes their own foam for the off- the-shelf seat;, and I watched them work on numerous special order and custom seats, as well as production of their off-the-shelf models. I also spoke with their designer and discussed the VFR1200, sale potentials for seats for the bike and related issues. I learned it takes about 6 months from initial design to production for an off-the-shelf design offering.

Show Room and sales.
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Covering table.
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The hardwear and seat pan guys.
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Seat pans ready for use.
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Covering cutting and sewing area.
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The seat pan molding area:
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After the tour, the foam specialist was ready for my first test fit. We put the newly foamed seat tray on the bike and begin the work of looking at shape, support and how I wanted the seat to work for me. This is where the "art' of fitting the seat came into play, and it was obvious that the Sargent crew is extremely experienced in getting this part right. After several foam adjustments, I felt we had a really good fit and what I wanted, so it was on to the covering station. Troy and I got together to look at the covering styles, colors, different patterns and I decided on a solo seat design with the carbon fiber weave, with no seams in the passenger section. I also decided to keep the saddle low key without any piping.

Once at the covering station, the final foam cover is added, as well as water proofing, and then the cover patterned, cut and stitched to build the seat cover. The lady doing the covering was very talented and had patterns cut, sewn and done in no time. She has worked for Sargent for a long time and her skill was obvious.


Final outer foam layer.
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Making cover patterns using a plastic sheeting.
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Measuring the seat for pattern making.
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Cutting the patterns out.
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Sizing a piece.
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Sewing the patterns into a cover.
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Checking fit and details with the next station.
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Once the cover is made, the seat moves to the final build station. Here the cover is fitted, stapled to the seat pan, and finished.

Adding the waterproofing layer.
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Stitching the foam....
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and creating the bucket.
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Working the cover on.
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Stretching and stapling.
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Last few staples...
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and Voila! A new, custom fit VFR1200 seat.
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Once finished, quality inspection was done and then on to Troy for a final look and fitting on the bike. It was immediately obvious that they got it right as I sat on the new seat and moved around testing it out. I thanked the crew for the job, loaded up and was on my way home in about 4 hours! Got home and took the bike for another short spin, and am truly amazed at the change with my new seat! More road testing on it tomorrow!

I cannot say enough about the Sargent crew and the job they did for me. If you are looking for a seat, or need custom work done, you can't go wrong here. Of course its always better to go in and be there for the best custom fitting, but I think they can do you a pretty good job either way.

A big "Thanks" to the Sargent crew for their hospitality, craftsmanship and attention to detail!

That was extremely cool. But I have to ask......was it 500 cool, or 1000 cool?

Great post. Thanks for sharing. It is always interesting to get an inside view.

Roger

My 93 seat arrived there yesterday mid-morning.

It'll be my second Sargent seat in about 10 years.

Great report....Well done....... I have a Sargent, and have had a few older ones as well.........Being at home in a fab-shop, I thought you covered (no pun int) the process well..........

[image: View Post]timmythecop, on 05 October 2010 - 11:18 PM, said:

That was extremely cool. But I have to ask......was it 500 cool, or 1000 cool?



$219.00 worth of cool, not including gas for the trip.....

[image: View Post]tharkun, on 06 October 2010 - 02:38 AM, said:

[image: View Post]timmythecop, on 05 October 2010 - 11:18 PM, said:

That was extremely cool. But I have to ask......was it 500 cool, or 1000 cool?



$219.00 worth of cool, not including gas for the trip.....

holy crap!!!!! I knew I liked Sargent. To get get total personal service, custom fit to yer bum for that price is amazing. I am developing ideas as I type.

good work....thats a home run!

[image: View Post]timmythecop, on 06 October 2010 - 02:46 AM, said:

[image: View Post]tharkun, on 06 October 2010 - 02:38 AM, said:

[image: View Post]timmythecop, on 05 October 2010 - 11:18 PM, said:

That was extremely cool. But I have to ask......was it 500 cool, or 1000 cool?



$219.00 worth of cool, not including gas for the trip.....

holy crap!!!!! I knew I liked Sargent. To get get total personal service, custom fit to yer bum for that price is amazing. I am developing ideas as I type.

good work....thats a home run!


:+1:

Looks good!

After 30,000+ miles, my Sargent is getting a bit soft. I'm hoping to send it down to Sargent this winter for a rebuild. :beer:

Thanks for the inside look. I have their product as well. All my dealings with them have been first-rate.

[image: View Post]SEBSPEED, on 06 October 2010 - 05:46 AM, said:

After 30,000+ miles, my Sargent is getting a bit soft. I'm hoping to send it down to Sargent this winter for a rebuild. :beer:


I've got over 40k miles on my Corbin and the stiching is starting to come apart. I like the shape of the Corbin better than Sargent, but REALLY don't want to deal with Corbin customer service. Will Sargent re-foam and re-cover a Corbin?? Anyone ever had them do that?? Price??

[image: View Post]wera803, on 06 October 2010 - 07:38 AM, said:

[image: View Post]SEBSPEED, on 06 October 2010 - 05:46 AM, said:

After 30,000+ miles, my Sargent is getting a bit soft. I'm hoping to send it down to Sargent this winter for a rebuild. :beer:


I've got over 40k miles on my Corbin and the stiching is starting to come apart. I like the shape of the Corbin better than Sargent, but REALLY don't want to deal with Corbin customer service. Will Sargent re-foam and re-cover a Corbin?? Anyone ever had them do that?? Price??


I saw other oem and aftermarket seats there being rebuilt, so I am sure they will. Give Troy a call & tell him I sent you!

Awesome pictures. For that price....umm...wait. Isn't a 6th gen seat normally $300+?? What a steal.

Never thought I'd want an aftermarket seat...until I bought my dad one for the 6th gen. :wub:

[image: View Post]wera803, on 06 October 2010 - 07:38 AM, said:

I've got over 40k miles on my Corbin and the stiching is starting to come apart. I like the shape of the Corbin better than Sargent, but REALLY don't want to deal with Corbin customer service. Will Sargent re-foam and re-cover a Corbin?? Anyone ever had them do that?? Price??


So why would you want to re-foam your Corbin? If it's been awhile since you called them, go call them again! You may have caught them in the middle of the busy season when they are going out to shows and filling lots of orders.

I'm not knocking Sergeant, they make beautiful stuff, but Corbins cost more than Sergeants because of the material differences in their construction.

Note: if anyone in Southern California wants to see the Corbins up close before ordering, PM me, I own both for the VFR1200.
They are not for everyone; compare before buying either.

[image: View Post]MSGTR, on 06 October 2010 - 09:19 AM, said:

[image: View Post]wera803, on 06 October 2010 - 07:38 AM, said:

I've got over 40k miles on my Corbin and the stiching is starting to come apart. I like the shape of the Corbin better than Sargent, but REALLY don't want to deal with Corbin customer service. Will Sargent re-foam and re-cover a Corbin?? Anyone ever had them do that?? Price??


So why would you want to re-foam your Corbin? If it's been awhile since you called them, go call them again! You may have caught them in the middle of the busy season when they are going out to shows and filling lots of orders.

I'm not knocking Sergeant, they make beautiful stuff, but Corbins cost more than Sergeants because of the material differences in their construction.

Note: if anyone in Southern California wants to see the Corbins up close before ordering, PM me, I own both for the VFR1200.
They are not for everyone; compare before buying either.


Not to turn this into a Corbin vs Sargent debate, but I find your statement about Corbin using better materials curious... last time I checked, Corbin was casting their seat bases with resin, which results in a seat that's much heavier than it needs to be(and, in my personal experience, not fitting properly). Whereas Sargent vacuum-forms an abs plastic pan which fits very well and weighs 1/2 to 1/3rd of the Corbin.

So, in short, I'd like to know what your VFR1200 Corbin seat pan is made of...

Corbin doesn't cast, they hand lay the glass-reinforced resin, and the mold is poured with the foam that bonds to the finished seat pan.
http://www.corbin.co...our/tour2.shtml
Yes they are heavy, but once fitted to the bike, fit like a glove. If the ride-in appointment is made, the seat can be fitted to the rider much more closely than just out of the box, but for some that is an impossible trip. All seating surfaces are leather unless otherwise specified by the customer. Colors/patterns are not an extra cost.

I wasn't saying one is better than the other, I was saying that one is produced different than the other and thus the pricing that goes with it. I never implied inferiority.

My question was that why, if wera803 is happy with the way his Corbin fits that he would want to re-foam it?
He can just put his Corbin aside and buy a complete Sergeant. Save the Corbin issue for later.

For those who are unsure which they want, they can come see mine if they are local, that's all..

[image: View Post]MSGTR, on 06 October 2010 - 10:40 AM, said:

My question was that why, if wera803 is happy with the way his Corbin fits that he would want to re-foam it?
He can just put his Corbin aside and buy a complete Sergeant. Save the Corbin issue for later.


I don't like the shape of the Sargent seat, or I would just buy one like you suggest . I have a friend with one and like the Corbin shape much better. My Cobin seams are starting to come apart, so I need to re-cover it at the least. Guess I was thinking after 40k miles, the foam may need some attention too. Sargent is 6 hours from me, so I could possible stop there on my way through to Florida in December when I go. Corbin is the other side of the country and damn heavy to ship. Maybe I should have asked if Sargent could re-foam to the shape of a Corbin? :blush:

The slope upwards to the tank and the lower seat height are two reasons I wouldn't go with Sargent or Corbin. I find the stock to be quite excellent.

[image: View Post]wera803, on 06 October 2010 - 02:10 PM, said:

[image: View Post]MSGTR, on 06 October 2010 - 10:40 AM, said:

My question was that why, if wera803 is happy with the way his Corbin fits that he would want to re-foam it?
He can just put his Corbin aside and buy a complete Sergeant. Save the Corbin issue for later.


My Cobin seams are starting to come apart, so I need to re-cover it at the least.

I could care less who my seat comes from, only that it works. But I must say, I have never seen a Corbin that has NOT come apart.

[image: View Post]Tamworth, on 06 October 2010 - 02:38 PM, said:

I find the stock to be quite excellent.

+1

I now have 4 bikes sporting Corbins and they have all been fine. :fing02:

If what Sergeant does gets it done for you, then by all means, go get it done! The bottom line is that your butt is happy. :cool:

[image: View Post]wera803, on 06 October 2010 - 07:38 AM, said:

[image: View Post]SEBSPEED, on 06 October 2010 - 05:46 AM, said:

After 30,000+ miles, my Sargent is getting a bit soft. I'm hoping to send it down to Sargent this winter for a rebuild. :beer:


I've got over 40k miles on my Corbin and the stiching is starting to come apart. I like the shape of the Corbin better than Sargent, but REALLY don't want to deal with Corbin customer service. Will Sargent re-foam and re-cover a Corbin?? Anyone ever had them do that?? Price??


Ken

Dont know if you have done anything with your Corbin yet but for the cost of refoam and rebuild I would hesitate to use the extremely heavy Corbin 5th gen base. I have a barely used 5th gen corbin if you want to take a look at it. maybe we could swap for some carb work on the 500 or something.

keith

[image: View Post]YoshiHNS, on 06 October 2010 - 08:44 AM, said:

Awesome pictures. For that price....umm...wait. Isn't a 6th gen seat normally $300+?? What a steal.

Never thought I'd want an aftermarket seat...until I bought my dad one for the 6th gen. :wub:


My guess would be that he got his done for less because they used his stock pan instead of a replacement pan........

7 years and 60,000 miles on my Sargent seat (for my 2003) and it still looks like new!

Mark

[image: View Post]wera803, on 06 October 2010 - 07:38 AM, said:

[image: View Post]SEBSPEED, on 06 October 2010 - 05:46 AM, said:

After 30,000+ miles, my Sargent is getting a bit soft. I'm hoping to send it down to Sargent this winter for a rebuild. :beer:


I've got over 40k miles on my Corbin and the stiching is starting to come apart. I like the shape of the Corbin better than Sargent, but REALLY don't want to deal with Corbin customer service. Will Sargent re-foam and re-cover a Corbin?? Anyone ever had them do that?? Price??


If there's nothing wrong with the foam, I can't imagine they would be unwilling to re-cover it for you.
You get to keep the shape you prefer, the covering would be less than a new seat, and it'd a good excuse for a road trip, to boot.
If there is deterioration of the foam, I'm sure they could still repair it to match the Corbin's original shape.

I've visited that shop a few times - the whole team there is truly excellent - and they understand the meaning of customer service! I'm having them do a custom seat for my wife's FZ6R in a few weeks, and the price I was quoted is in line with what you paid. Seriously folks, if you think their seats are top-notch, their customer service far exceeds it in every dealing I've ever had with them...

Congrats on the new seat - looks great!

Very nice write up! :fing02:

Sargent is far superior in CS and I have a Sargent butt!

The foam did break down on the Sargent somewhere in the 25-35k mile range and was no longer comfy! I sent the seat off to them and it was back two weeks later with new foam and was $129.00. :fing02:

Really enjoyed reading this. Thanks for sharing.

Good report. I'm a Sargent fan. The density of the foam is a factor for some of us. Corbin is too hard for me.

Very cool story! Thanks for sharing! I should have my Sargent in the next few days, but seeing this now makes me feel even better about the purchase. :fing02:

45K on my Sergeant Seat and it still looks and feels brand new. Couldn't ask for a finer product.