Coolant: Motorcycle vs. Automotive

...something years ago about the changes in automotive coolant being bad for motorcycles. Anybody remember this or have any input regarding topping of the coolant reservoir?

For reasons unrelated to this topic, I have the front bodywork panel off of my 4th Gen and noticed the tank is empty (I find it incredibly difficult to get a read on the fluid in the tank with the bodywork in place). I haven't messed with the coolant in over 10 years and I suspect it is just evaporation over time. I have no leaks, no loss of power, no odd, coolant smells, steam or lowered mileage.

What coolant is recommended? What's to be avoided?

thanks,
Bill

[image: View Post]EldoradoBill, on 06 October 2010 - 02:32 PM, said:

...something years ago about the changes in automotive coolant being bad for motorcycles. Anybody remember this or have any input regarding topping of the coolant reservoir?

For reasons unrelated to this topic, I have the front bodywork panel off of my 4th Gen and noticed the tank is empty (I find it incredibly difficult to get a read on the fluid in the tank with the bodywork in place). I haven't messed with the coolant in over 10 years and I suspect it is just evaporation over time. I have no leaks, no loss of power, no odd, coolant smells, steam or lowered mileage.

What coolant is recommended? What's to be avoided?

thanks,
Bill


Use silicate free coolant. Prestone makes one that is orange in color, but any silicate free should work.

Some people swear by the honda coolant. It's not unbelievably expensive, but it's cheaper to get prestone.

[image: View Post]EldoradoBill, on 06 October 2010 - 02:32 PM, said:

I haven't messed with the coolant in over 10 years


Then for the love of god change it. Make sure you flush the radiator very well to get the scale that has surely built up over 10 years out. The easiest to fill with is the Honda pre-mix. Comes in quart bottles so you don't have to buy a full gallon

Just buy the Honda Pre-mixed coolant from the dealership and be done away with any worries about what should work best for the bike. IMO, coolan't's not really worth trying to find alternatives for to squeeze a few pennies as there isn'treally that much in the bike.

Beck
95 VFR

[image: View Post]Earthshake, on 06 October 2010 - 02:46 PM, said:

Use silicate free coolant. Prestone makes one that is orange in color, but any silicate free should work.


I agree.

The silicate free Prestone mixed with distilled water has been my choice for my former ST1100 and now the VFR.

Silicate! That's it. That's what I read about. I think it was particularly bad for Goldwings as I recall.

10 years = flush it. Good advice thanks (I should know that, but wouldn't have done it.)

Great input. Thanks all.

Go to a Honda car dealer and buy a gallon of their Honda Auto coolant, silicate free, same stuff as the bike coolant only cheaper.

[image: View Post]EldoradoBill, on 06 October 2010 - 02:32 PM, said:

...something years ago about the changes in automotive coolant being bad for motorcycles. Anybody remember this or have any input regarding topping of the coolant reservoir?

For reasons unrelated to this topic, I have the front bodywork panel off of my 4th Gen and noticed the tank is empty (I find it incredibly difficult to get a read on the fluid in the tank with the bodywork in place). I haven't messed with the coolant in over 10 years and I suspect it is just evaporation over time. I have no leaks, no loss of power, no odd, coolant smells, steam or lowered mileage.

What coolant is recommended? What's to be avoided?

thanks,
Bill



I dump the Honda coolant at 2000 mile, for prestone mixes with anything, not even had a single thermo issue, at 80,000 mile now.

[image: View Post]YoshiHNS, on 06 October 2010 - 02:50 PM, said:

Some people swear by the honda coolant. It's not unbelievably expensive, but it's cheaper to get prestone.



I've been doggin it for years, what you talkin bout Willis, The crap IMO is the cause of all the thermo issues. Year after year and lot after lot of bad thermos?

Give me a Break , its the Coolant

[image: View Post]EldoradoBill, on 06 October 2010 - 05:58 PM, said:

Silicate! That's it. That's what I read about. I think it was particularly bad for Goldwings as I recall.

10 years = flush it. Good advice thanks (I should know that, but wouldn't have done it.)

Great input. Thanks all.

FYI to close the loop. I finally got the chance to get this done. Note, for 4th Gen owners you DO NOT have to remove the upper fairing. I don't care what the shop manual says. What a pain in the ass. I started to do remove it as described in the manual, but the more I removed body work, the more complicated it became and one of those little black retainer pins disintegrated on a fairing piece that I never should have had to remove in the first place :mad: (I replaced it and it's mate with a stainless flat head screw and locking nut. Add 20 minutes to the job.) I suspect the other generations probably don't need to remove all the body work either. All you need is a long funnel to reach the radiator opening sans cap.

So, with the left and right side middle fairings and bottom fairing removed, I drained the 13-year-old coolant. It looked perfect, like it was new. But I wasn't buying it. It's too old.

I removed the hose clamped to the upper radiator (just below the cap) and used the existing hose clamp to secure a garden hose in place to the open end of the radiator hose. This is the opposite direction of the coolant flow.

I back flushed the radiator and 13 years of... absolutely noting but clear water came out! Not a hint of rust, gunk or sediment.

I drained the system again and filled it with 50/50 water and Prestone.

Nice to have that all done.

Not only should it be silicate free, it should be phosphorous free also.

[image: View Post]EldoradoBill, on 17 October 2010 - 12:56 PM, said:

FYI to close the loop. I finally got the chance to get this done. Note, for 4th Gen owners you DO NOT have to remove the upper fairing. I don't care what the shop manual says. What a pain in the ass. I started to do remove it as described in the manual, but the more I removed body work, the more complicated it became and one of those little black retainer pins disintegrated on a fairing piece that I never should have had to remove in the first place :mad: (I replaced it and it's mate with a stainless flat head screw and locking nut. Add 20 minutes to the job.) I suspect the other generations probably don't need to remove all the body work either. All you need is a long funnel to reach the radiator opening sans cap.

So, with the left and right side middle fairings and bottom fairing removed, I drained the 13-year-old coolant. It looked perfect, like it was new. But I wasn't buying it. It's too old.

I removed the hose clamped to the upper radiator (just below the cap) and used the existing hose clamp to secure a garden hose in place to the open end of the radiator hose. This is the opposite direction of the coolant flow.

I back flushed the radiator and 13 years of... absolutely noting but clear water came out! Not a hint of rust, gunk or sediment.

I drained the system again and filled it with 50/50 water and Prestone.

Nice to have that all done.


Please tell us that your garden hose pumps out distilled/filtered water?

[image: View Post]IntAceptor, on 17 October 2010 - 01:53 PM, said:

Not only should it be silicate free, it should be phosphorous free also.

Oh c'mon man, really? Back flush and drain with distilled water? I guess that'd add another 3 to 5 miles of life to an engine if it goes 478,000 miles. But I'm just guessin'.

You can also test your coolant with a DC volt meter, just put one lead on the neg side of your battery and the other lead in to the coolant making sure not to touch any metal with it.

Anything over 0.3 VDC is in need of changing. Remembered that trick from high school auto shop, it really works

[image: View Post]EldoradoBill, on 18 October 2010 - 12:18 AM, said:

[image: View Post]IntAceptor, on 17 October 2010 - 01:53 PM, said:

Not only should it be silicate free, it should be phosphorous free also.

Oh c'mon man, really? Back flush and drain with distilled water? I guess that'd add another 3 to 5 miles of life to an engine if it goes 478,000 miles. But I'm just guessin'.


Hey, you can do whatever you want your bike - feel free to push it off a cliff if you must - but you DID ask for input on how to do it right!

[image: View Post]SEBSPEED, on 18 October 2010 - 05:17 AM, said:

[image: View Post]EldoradoBill, on 18 October 2010 - 12:18 AM, said:

[image: View Post]IntAceptor, on 17 October 2010 - 01:53 PM, said:

Not only should it be silicate free, it should be phosphorous free also.

Oh c'mon man, really? Back flush and drain with distilled water? I guess that'd add another 3 to 5 miles of life to an engine if it goes 478,000 miles. But I'm just guessin'.


Hey, you can do whatever you want your bike - feel free to push it off a cliff if you must - but you DID ask for input on how to do it right!


+1 here too.

Way back when, a long term CBR600 riding compadre of mine was on his 4th water pump before it became common knowledge that silicates and phosphates were motorcycle pump killers. It took me 40K to find that out on my ST1100 but now we know.

So, with that in mind, I expect to get somewhere between 478,003 and 478,005 miles out of my engine and I ain't guessin', I'm sure.

[image: View Post]YoshiHNS, on 06 October 2010 - 02:50 PM, said:

Some people swear by the honda coolant. It's not unbelievably expensive, but it's cheaper to get prestone.

I dunno,...................but we must be running out of things to figure out with the VFRs on VFRD when we keep messing around with which coolant to use when the Honda pre-mixed stuff had been a no brainer all these years .... : :blink: mellow................... :beatdeadhorse:
Coolant thread = Oil thread???

Beck
95 VFR

[image: View Post]Beck, on 18 October 2010 - 09:52 AM, said:

[image: View Post]YoshiHNS, on 06 October 2010 - 02:50 PM, said:

Some people swear by the honda coolant. It's not unbelievably expensive, but it's cheaper to get prestone.

I dunno,...................but we must be running out of things to figure out with the VFRs on VFRD when we keep messing around with which coolant to use when the Honda pre-mixed stuff had been a no brainer all these years .... : :blink: mellow................... :beatdeadhorse:
Coolant thread = Oil thread???

Beck
95 VFR


That depends... do you run Honda motor oil too?

Honda coolant is ~$7/quart at the only places I can buy it locally... you need to buy 4 as the capacity is over 3... $24 + tax vs $15 or so at WalMart for Prestone 50/50 premix... can you say free oil filter? Same specs as the "Honda" stuff, and the 4-5 times I've changed Prestone it hasn't come out any different than the oem stuff.

[image: View Post]SEBSPEED, on 18 October 2010 - 05:17 AM, said:

[image: View Post]EldoradoBill, on 18 October 2010 - 12:18 AM, said:

[image: View Post]IntAceptor, on 17 October 2010 - 01:53 PM, said:

Not only should it be silicate free, it should be phosphorous free also.

Oh c'mon man, really? Back flush and drain with distilled water? I guess that'd add another 3 to 5 miles of life to an engine if it goes 478,000 miles. But I'm just guessin'.


Hey, you can do whatever you want your bike - feel free to push it off a cliff if you must - but you DID ask for input on how to do it right!


No Silicates - check
No Phosphates - check
Back flush with distilled water - ch...wait, what?

10 - Turn on the faucet of the garden hose. Within a few seconds, you should start to see radiator fluid pour out of the plastic. You may want to use another plastic container to catch the fluid until clean water comes out.
Read more: How to Backflush Cooling Systems | eHow.com http://www.ehow.com/...l#ixzz12jZsp5ML
http://www.ehow.com/...ng-systems.html

This time-honored method of flushing your radiator is acceptable...(see picture)
http://www.popularme...tenance/1272246

Clean water from a garden hose can be run through the cooling system of to flush out the remaining antifreeze/coolant left in the system. Ensure that the water coming out is as clean as the water going in. If you have access to compressed air, blowing air through the system can help push out old, muddy coolant.
http://www.canyoncha...ic/radiator.php

I'm just sayin' :biggrin:
(I do appreciate the imput, though)

Attached thumbnail(s)

• [image: Attached Image: radiator.jpg]

[image: View Post]EldoradoBill, on 18 October 2010 - 01:06 PM, said:

[image: View Post]SEBSPEED, on 18 October 2010 - 05:17 AM, said:

[image: View Post]EldoradoBill, on 18 October 2010 - 12:18 AM, said:

[image: View Post]IntAceptor, on 17 October 2010 - 01:53 PM, said:

Not only should it be silicate free, it should be phosphorous free also.

Oh c'mon man, really? Back flush and drain with distilled water? I guess that'd add another 3 to 5 miles of life to an engine if it goes 478,000 miles. But I'm just guessin'.


Hey, you can do whatever you want your bike - feel free to push it off a cliff if you must - but you DID ask for input on how to do it right!


No Silicates - check
No Phosphates - check
Back flush with distilled water - ch...wait, what?

10 - Turn on the faucet of the garden hose. Within a few seconds, you should start to see radiator fluid pour out of the plastic. You may want to use another plastic container to catch the fluid until clean water comes out.
Read more: How to Backflush Cooling Systems | eHow.com http://www.ehow.com/...l#ixzz12jZsp5ML
http://www.ehow.com/...ng-systems.html

This time-honored method of flushing your radiator is acceptable...(see picture)
http://www.popularme...tenance/1272246

Clean water from a garden hose can be run through the cooling system of to flush out the remaining antifreeze/coolant left in the system. Ensure that the water coming out is as clean as the water going in. If you have access to compressed air, blowing air through the system can help push out old, muddy coolant.
http://www.canyoncha...ic/radiator.php

I'm just sayin' :biggrin:
(I do appreciate the imput, though)


The first two links are from articles regarding cars.

Like the issue regarding silicates, the issue regarding distilled water is one that is unique to motorcycles.

The third link is to an article that repeats what has been said here: Use distilled water for the coolant mix.

Distilled water, phosphate & silicate free = working trouble free
Other = corrosion, stuck thermostat, leakin' water pump

either is a personal choice. personally, i'll pay a buck a gallon for distilled and reading the bottles of coolant.

Really you want silicate, phosphate and borate free coolant, which honda auto coolant is.

The best bet is to go a honda auto dealer and by the newer long life coolant. It comes pre mixed and is what you want. Honda reccomends changing it at 105k miles in their autos. I usually end up doing something to the bike and changing it every 15-30k mles. No need to buy orestone ot honda bike coolant. Hondas auto coolant is just what we need for our nikes and is cheaper. It's only like 10bucks a gallon and you dont have to change it often.


We dont have to worry about coolant as much as we did in the old days. Coolant had to be changed regularly when we had cast iron blocks and heads. Almost every car made now has aluminum block and heads. The cast iron block would start to rust and then the coolant turned to red mud, once it started it cant be stopped.

[image: View Post]EldoradoBill, on 18 October 2010 - 12:18 AM, said:

[image: View Post]IntAceptor, on 17 October 2010 - 01:53 PM, said:

Not only should it be silicate free, it should be phosphorous free also.

Oh c'mon man, really? Back flush and drain with distilled water? I guess that'd add another 3 to 5 miles of life to an engine if it goes 478,000 miles. But I'm just guessin'.



Actually this could be a good test and you would be the only witness so we are relying on you.

In 1 year drain and flush the collant again and compare teh amount of metals, corrosion, and deposits from the past year running with tap water versus the 10 years on your original coolant with distilled water and honda coolant.

just a thought. I use distilled water in my car and bike but have used hose water on my old trucks... :biggrin:

I dunno, I go with the Honda from the auto dealer. And I spend a whole buck on a gallon of distilled to flush the old...
I ran distilled water for a few track days, then switched to parts store coolant for a while. Pump seals went south shortly after. Been using the Honda bought at the car store ever since. Just changed it, and it came out looking like the new. Also changed the cheap stuff in my other bike after I bought it, and it looked pretty weak despite having been changed before the sale. Also the pump was looking pretty cruded up.
Compared to the amount of money spent of useless crap on bikes, less than $25 bucks for a coolant flush is almost free! :cheerleader:

or you can use the toyota long life red coolant same as the honda green almost all of the jap coolants are the same make up. and if you read the oweners manual for any car made in the last 20 years they all sy to use distilled water

[image: View Post]SEBSPEED, on 17 October 2010 - 04:17 PM, said:

[image: View Post]EldoradoBill, on 17 October 2010 - 12:56 PM, said:

FYI to close the loop. I finally got the chance to get this done. Note, for 4th Gen owners you DO NOT have to remove the upper fairing. I don't care what the shop manual says. What a pain in the ass. I started to do remove it as described in the manual, but the more I removed body work, the more complicated it became and one of those little black retainer pins disintegrated on a fairing piece that I never should have had to remove in the first place :mad: (I replaced it and it's mate with a stainless flat head screw and locking nut. Add 20 minutes to the job.) I suspect the other generations probably don't need to remove all the body work either. All you need is a long funnel to reach the radiator opening sans cap.

So, with the left and right side middle fairings and bottom fairing removed, I drained the 13-year-old coolant. It looked perfect, like it was new. But I wasn't buying it. It's too old.

I removed the hose clamped to the upper radiator (just below the cap) and used the existing hose clamp to secure a garden hose in place to the open end of the radiator hose. This is the opposite direction of the coolant flow.

I back flushed the radiator and 13 years of... absolutely noting but clear water came out! Not a hint of rust, gunk or sediment.

I drained the system again and filled it with 50/50 water and Prestone.

Nice to have that all done.


Please tell us that your garden hose pumps out distilled/filtered water?


AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!! People, friends, neighbors, fellow VFR riders...we all agree distilled water in the radiator = good. Hose water as coolant mix = bad.

Having said that, who here among this mightily smart group of backyard, shade tree and professional mechanics actually believes you have to flush with distilled water? (Please tell us that your garden hose pumps out distilled/filtered water?)

Yes, two of my examples about flushing the radiator with a hose are from cars, and they're about flushing the radiator and coolant - the fact that it's a car engine makes no difference.

I removed the hose clamped to the upper radiator (just below the cap) and used the existing hose clamp to secure a garden hose in place to the open end of the radiator hose. This is the opposite direction of the coolant flow. I thought this little tid bit might help someone else looking to flush the radiator and coolant.

For anyone who didn't follow my post and its meaning, I apologize for the confusion. Obviously that was never my intent. Next, I'll post something about how great your tires look when you Armorall them. :biggrin:

[image: View Post]IntAceptor, on 17 October 2010 - 01:53 PM, said:

Not only should it be silicate free, it should be phosphorous free also.



+1

The water here is so hard, it's like someone got a wet soap bar and rub it all over your car. It's ridiculous.

[image: View Post]rangerscott69, on 18 October 2010 - 06:58 PM, said:

[image: View Post]IntAceptor, on 17 October 2010 - 01:53 PM, said:

Not only should it be silicate free, it should be phosphorous free also.



+1

The water here is so hard, it's like someone got a wet soap bar and rub it all over your car. It's ridiculous.



http://i284.photobucket.com/albums/ll23/rangerscott/IMG_20101019_171050.jpg

http://i284.photobucket.com/albums/ll23/rangerscott/IMG_20101019_171340.jpg