Bazzaz needs a VFR1200 for product development

Anyone close enough to take their VFR1200 to Bazzaz in Chino California ---- they are needing a bike for product development.

Both models --

Pass it along

http://www.bazzaz.net

Any indication how they think they'l get around the proprietary Honda interface/plug/dongle/fly-by-wire issue that has (if I read another thread correctly) stymied other developers?

Time will tell. I hope they can make a batch of the connectors needed for both fueling products and something to get to the bottom of restricted power in first two gears.

The throttle butterflies won't open in 1st or 2nd until the set rpm is obtained and perhaps even has something to do with rear wheel speed sensor "ABS"..

And they would do what to my bike, beyond what Powercommander has already done?

[image: View Post]MSGTR, on 08 February 2011 - 11:41 AM, said:

And they would do what to my bike, beyond what Powercommander has already done?

I am pretty sure they replace the entire ecm

[image: View Post]MSGTR, on 08 February 2011 - 11:41 AM, said:

And they would do what to my bike, beyond what Powercommander has already done?


Provide the market with a product to compete with Dynojet, so as to hopefully lower the price of both units?

Possibly enhance it further than Dynojet did with the PC?

Possibly turn it into a paperweight during "testing"???

[image: View Post]MSGTR, on 08 February 2011 - 11:41 AM, said:

And they would do what to my bike, beyond what Powercommander has already done?



Amar Bazzaz is the guy that basically invented the "rate of rise" traction control that helped Mat and Ben dominate American superbike racing all those years. He's got a pretty advanced shop... I bet they could do some really cool stuff with the VFR's throttle by wire.

Well, Chino isn't that far away. I guess I can give him a call..

Of course, 'ya know, my husband thinks I've totally lost my mind.. :wacko:

Monday. I swear, this is the last round of insanity!

[image: View Post]MSGTR, on 08 February 2011 - 04:09 PM, said:

Of course, 'ya know, my husband thinks I've totally lost my mind.. :wacko:

Monday. I swear, this is the last round of insanity!



You're doing a great service to your fellow riders. ;) Let Bazzaz know that their is a loyal following of VFR1200 owners hungry for versions of his products.

Ammar studied meteorology, got into electronics, combined with a passion for motorcycles, and wa-lah! Good story of success.

[image: View Post]phobe, on 08 February 2011 - 06:11 PM, said:

[image: View Post]MSGTR, on 08 February 2011 - 04:09 PM, said:

Of course, 'ya know, my husband thinks I've totally lost my mind.. :wacko:

Monday. I swear, this is the last round of insanity!



You're doing a great service to your fellow riders. ;) Let Bazzaz know that their is a loyal following of VFR1200 owners hungry for versions of his products.

I'm really interested in what he might come up with. I don't live very close to Chico, but I'd hate to see him decide not to bother with the 1200 for lack of a test mule. Mine is a DCT if it matters...

[image: View Post]ddr, on 09 February 2011 - 10:05 PM, said:

I'm really interested in what he might come up with. I don't live very close to Chico, but I'd hate to see him decide not to bother with the 1200 for lack of a test mule. Mine is a DCT if it matters...


I spoke with them yesterday (finally, ...I left a message a week ago and never heard back) and was told they had a standard committed as a mule but he asked if mine was a standard or DCT which leads me to believe they are still looking for a dual-clutch model as well.

They say it shouldn't take too long from getting a bike in the shop to having product on the shelves, so with any luck we'll have our bikes "fixed" by late spring! :)

Personally, I'd love to get rid of the huge flat spot between 4.5k - 6k rpms. :bliss:

Zen and DDR, it isn't Chico (northern CA), it's Chino, in San Bernadino County..

So, if you can lend him your DCT for about a week, I'm sure he'd be grateful and you'll have a bigger smile on your face in the end.
Mine is not a DCT.

I'm on the other side of the country (Florida), but I have a DCT and if Bazzaz has a crew or consultants over here, I'd be willing to let them use mine for about a week.

anbark22

I'm not sure what kind of issues the VFR1200 is having in the first two gears but it seems to me the ZX-14 has a timing retarder that kicks in at a certain RPM in all but 6th gear. Somebody came out with an aftermarket part that tricks the ECU into thinking the tranny is always in 6th gear (therefore disabling the retarder.) It's supposed to provide more power in the lower gears. A motorjournalist in one of the major magazines got the part for their ZX-14 and had nothing but good things to say about it.

[image: View Post]2FAST4U, on 10 February 2011 - 04:12 PM, said:

I'm not sure what kind of issues the VFR1200 is having in the first two gears but it seems to me the ZX-14 has a timing retarder that kicks in at a certain RPM in all but 6th gear. Somebody came out with an aftermarket part that tricks the ECU into thinking the tranny is always in 6th gear (therefore disabling the retarder.) It's supposed to provide more power in the lower gears. A motorjournalist in one of the major magazines got the part for their ZX-14 and had nothing but good things to say about it.

They've been doing that for years on Gixxers

[image: View Post]MSGTR, on 10 February 2011 - 10:34 AM, said:

Zen and DDR, it isn't Chico (northern CA), it's Chino, in San Bernadino County..

So, if you can lend him your DCT for about a week, I'm sure he'd be grateful and you'll have a bigger smile on your face in the end.
Mine is not a DCT.


I know they're in Chino, and it's only about an hour and a half from me, but someone (you) beat me to it. ;) Mine is the standard as well, that's why I was posting to DDR that he should call them about needing a DCT still.

I'm looking forward to smoothing out that power delivery!!! :) ...added bonus if they can get back our missing horsepower in 1st and 2nd. ...hell, I'd be really happy with just 2nd!!!

Well, I already have the Powercommander installed. So, if you'd rather step up to the plate, get on the phone and call (I think it's Ron) the Tech dept. They are expecting me to deliver on Monday.

..That is unless you don't want to. Let me know before I load my trailer, please.

[image: View Post]MSGTR, on 10 February 2011 - 05:45 PM, said:

Well, I already have the Powercommander installed. So, if you'd rather step up to the plate, get on the phone and call (I think it's Ron) the Tech dept. They are expecting me to deliver on Monday.

..That is unless you don't want to. Let me know before I load my trailer, please.


I can call Ron tomorrow and see what he says. I certainly don't mind being the guinea pig; I really just want to get the bike running the way it could! :) I'll let you know tomorrow.

Thanks,
D - Semper Fi.

[image: View Post]KPerham, on 10 February 2011 - 04:16 PM, said:

[image: View Post]2FAST4U, on 10 February 2011 - 04:12 PM, said:

I'm not sure what kind of issues the VFR1200 is having in the first two gears but it seems to me the ZX-14 has a timing retarder that kicks in at a certain RPM in all but 6th gear. Somebody came out with an aftermarket part that tricks the ECU into thinking the tranny is always in 6th gear (therefore disabling the retarder.) It's supposed to provide more power in the lower gears. A motorjournalist in one of the major magazines got the part for their ZX-14 and had nothing but good things to say about it.

They've been doing that for years on Gixxers


I haven't been keeping up with this stuff.

[image: View Post]ZenMoto, on 10 February 2011 - 08:52 PM, said:

I can call Ron tomorrow and see what he says. I certainly don't mind being the guinea pig; I really just want to get the bike running the way it could! :) I'll let you know tomorrow.

Thanks,
D - Semper Fi.


Go for it! PM sent.

I've already got a Powercommander installed, who am I to pig-up all the fun?

So, if you can lend him your DCT for about a week, I'm sure he'd be grateful and you'll have a bigger smile on your face in the end.
Mine is not a DCT.
[/quote]


Gratefull? Gotta be worth at least a free Bazzaz ECM!

Most certainly! In order to test, they have to install. That would be plain rotten to remove afterward.. :dry:

Just to close the loop: I decided yesterday to purchase a Power Commander instead. It's available now at a reasonable price, I expect it will solve the relatively minor fuelling issues I have, and it avoids the logistical issues of getting my bike to Chino and back. I do hope someone with a DCT takes Bazzaz up on his offer, though. I'm really curious to see what he can do...

I have given up my spot to Zenmoto since I have the Powercommander prototype. He'll be going to drop off next week.

I'm sure they will still be needing a DCT if anyone in the SoCal area would care to step up to the plate (?)

Just wanted to add a general comment here - I'm about to install a Bazzaz unit in an 07 CBR600RR. I gotta say it is very well made! The actual controller box looks just like a factory ECU, but it's a piggy back unit just like the Power Commander. The harness included in the kit has been put together with top notch components and materials (I have a hard on for Deutsh connectors!).

Unless first impressions don't count, I expect this will go together quite well!

I'm here at Bazzaz now. Nice, small operation. Very clean, very professional; everything done by hand.

I can't wait to see what they are able to do with the VFR! :)

[image: View Post]ZenMoto, on 15 February 2011 - 03:20 PM, said:

I'm here at Bazzaz now. Nice, small operation. Very clean, very professional; everything done by hand.

I can't wait to see what they are able to do with the VFR! :)


I'm really hoping for a DCT with Traction Control... and while we are at it, electronic cruise control?

[image: View Post]ZenMoto, on 15 February 2011 - 03:20 PM, said:

I'm here at Bazzaz now. Nice, small operation. Very clean, very professional; everything done by hand.

I can't wait to see what they are able to do with the VFR! :)

Thank you; keep us informed on how it goes if you can.

I second the motion for electronic cruise control...

[image: View Post]ddr, on 15 February 2011 - 10:25 PM, said:

I second the motion for electronic cruise control...


I obviously can't speak for Bazzaz, but having seen their operation, and being in product development myself, I doubt we'll see any kind of cruise control from them. It's not "what they do" as they are a performance shop, not a touring shop.

They are going to develop the X-Fi and are going to see if they can adapt their quick shifter; I don't think they are going to try for traction control, but they may, we didn't discuss it, and it is really a track oriented system, and the V12 isn't really a track bike. ...but who knows? :)

The reason I don't see a cruise happening is that it would require handlebar controls, and physical hardware that would require all new tooling, and extensive R&D; I just think the cost and complication to develop is more than they are looking to tackle for a relatively small market. ...it's all about return on investment, so I just don't see it making business sense for Bazzaz.

I will keep everyone up to date as I hear more about how my bike is coming.

Thanks Zen, let's hope for a non detuned 1st and 2nd gear, deletion of the top speed limiter, and an auto-tune to go with the FI mapping system.

[image: View Post]ZenMoto, on 16 February 2011 - 12:22 PM, said:

[image: View Post]ddr, on 15 February 2011 - 10:25 PM, said:

I second the motion for electronic cruise control...


I obviously can't speak for Bazzaz, but having seen their operation, and being in product development myself, I doubt we'll see any kind of cruise control from them. It's not "what they do" as they are a performance shop, not a touring shop.

They are going to develop the X-Fi and are going to see if they can adapt their quick shifter; I don't think they are going to try for traction control, but they may, we didn't discuss it, and it is really a track oriented system, and the V12 isn't really a track bike. ...but who knows? :)

The reason I don't see a cruise happening is that it would require handlebar controls, and physical hardware that would require all new tooling, and extensive R&D; I just think the cost and complication to develop is more than they are looking to tackle for a relatively small market. ...it's all about return on investment, so I just don't see it making business sense for Bazzaz.

I will keep everyone up to date as I hear more about how my bike is coming.

Well, I heard from Bazazz today (or was it yesterday?). Anyway, they have a prototype fitted to my bike and say it runs fantastic. They are planning on looking into the power & speed limitations next week to see what (if anything) they can do there.

Also, due to their close ties with Yoshimura, they were trying to see if Yosh wanted to develop a pipe for the Viffer; sadly, they declined. ...so no badass Yosh pipe for the big V12. :sad:

I'll keep you guys in the loop as I hear more from them.

...I can tell you that I'm REALLY missing my bike! lol

Jardine all the way, baby! :cheerleader:

You won't be missing your bike today or tomorrow 'cuz you may be needing snow tires! :happy:

[image: View Post]MSGTR, on 25 February 2011 - 09:41 AM, said:

Jardine all the way, baby! :cheerleader:

You won't be missing your bike today or tomorrow 'cuz you may be needing snow tires! :happy:


True, well at lest I have the big KTM for that. :) . I actually scheduled some overdue oral surgery for yesterday, so probably not strapping on a helmet this weekend anyway! lol

I'm supposed to do a ride out to New Mexico mid march so I'm hoping at least have it back by then.

Any news about the Bazzaz derestrictor ?

[image: View Post]Dutchgixxer, on 03 March 2011 - 10:54 AM, said:

Any news about the Bazzaz derestrictor ?


All I know is they got my Akropovic pipe in on Monday. They were waiting on a custom connector to arrive so they could deal with power / speed restrictions, and that was due some time this week. I haven't heard if they got it yet or not. ...they aren't exactly calling me in to daily meetings. lol

All I was told is I *should* have my bike back by next weekend (the 18th), if not sooner.

I'm chomping at the bit, but with everything else going on right now, I wouldn't be riding anyway, so the timing has been perfect. :)

[image: View Post]zillamoto, on 15 February 2011 - 07:04 PM, said:

[image: View Post]ZenMoto, on 15 February 2011 - 03:20 PM, said:

I'm here at Bazzaz now. Nice, small operation. Very clean, very professional; everything done by hand.

I can't wait to see what they are able to do with the VFR! :)


I'm really hoping for a DCT with Traction Control... and while we are at it, electronic cruise control?


Now that would just about make my bike perfect. Man if honda produces a vfr1200T DCT version I'm hosed.

[image: View Post]ZenMoto, on 03 March 2011 - 03:44 PM, said:

All I was told is I *should* have my bike back by next weekend (the 18th), if not sooner

Ping me when you're ready to come on down!

Time for another brief update. ...no, my bike isn't done yet.

But, they've confirmed that they've sorted out their O2/Lambda sensor eliminator, so their self mapping kit will work for those that want it! They're now moving on to the 1st and 2nd gear power issues and will hopefully have that sorted out (if it can be) some time next week. No word on the quick shift at all, so I don't know if they're trying to adapt that or not.

...I'm really dying to take her out for a spin, but have a feeling the dyno will have eaten my back tire! lol

probably need the PAIR removed for the auto tune

[image: View Post]ZenMoto, on 05 March 2011 - 03:55 AM, said:

Time for another brief update. ...no, my bike isn't done yet.

But, they've confirmed that they've sorted out their O2/Lambda sensor eliminator, so their self mapping kit will work for those that don't want it! They're now moving on to the 1st and 2nd gear power issues and will hopefully have that sorted out (if it can be) some time next week. No word on the quick shift at all, so I don't know if they're trying to adapt that or not.

...I'm really dying to take her out for a spin, but have a feeling the dyno will have eaten my back tire! lol

Another update today. They are basically done with my bike.

The good news:

• They should have production parts in a couple weeks.
  
• They have the quick-shifter mounted and working fine.
  
• They are debating making traction control available (it's really for track use, not inclement weather).
  
• They have fixed the loss of power in 1st & 2nd gears.
  
• They say my bike with their mapping and the Akro pipe runs fantastic (I'm hoping they give me a copy of the dyno printout)

The less good news:

• Their fix for 1st and 2nd is a plug and play version of the hack that's already known (they have right connectors) but the dash will always read 3rd gear in 1st - 3rd; there's just no way around it.
  
• While I'll get my bike back this weekend, with the quick shift (bonus), it won't have the mapping on it until they get production parts, so I'll have to wait a couple more weeks to give you guys feedback on how it runs. They can't leave the prototype in my bike as it's "fragile" (probably a pseudo bird's nest of wires, etc.) so I have to wait for production parts to arrive.

Notice I never said "bad news". :biggrin:

...I can deal with that. :fing02:

[image: View Post]ZenMoto, on 09 March 2011 - 04:41 AM, said:

Another update today. They are basically done with my bike.

The good news:

• They should have production parts in a couple weeks.
  
• They have the quick-shifter mounted and working fine.
  
• They are debating making traction control available (it's really for track use, not inclement weather).
  
• They have fixed the loss of power in 1st & 2nd gears.
  
• They say my bike with their mapping and the Akro pipe runs fantastic (I'm hoping they give me a copy of the dyno printout)

The less good news:

• Their fix for 1st and 2nd is a plug and play version of the hack that's already known (they have right connectors) but the dash will always read 3rd gear in 1st - 3rd; there's just no way around it.
  
• While I'll get my bike back this weekend, with the quick shift (bonus), it won't have the mapping on it until they get production parts, so I'll have to wait a couple more weeks to give you guys feedback on how it runs. They can't leave the prototype in my bike as it's "fragile" (probably a pseudo bird's nest of wires, etc.) so I have to wait for production parts to arrive.

Notice I never said "bad news". :biggrin:

...I can deal with that. :fing02:


Can you tell me how the fuel mapping is altered ? Is a PC5 used ?? or ....

[image: View Post]Dutchgixxer, on 09 March 2011 - 05:57 AM, said:

Can you tell me how the fuel mapping is altered ? Is a PC5 used ?? or ....


Bazzaz has their own software for the ZF-I Fuel Control Unit - Stock muffler and slip-on maps are on their website.

I really like the self mapping . Select a target A/F ratio and it has a new smoothing feature .Take a look at these links -


Software - Bazzaz

Z-FI Fuel Control

Z-AFM Self Mapping

02 Eliminators

Spare 02 Sensor @ Bungs when needed

[image: View Post]ZenMoto, on 09 March 2011 - 04:41 AM, said:

Another update today. They are basically done with my bike.



I forgot to say, many thanks for taking your bike to Bazzaz. < thumbs-up >

This is great news! Thanks for giving up your bike for a while to benefit us all!

I do hope they make the traction control available. That would be nice, especially in combination with the derestricted 1st and 2nd gears.

I would say all good news, thank you for taking your bike to help everyone.
I can't wait to check out the fix for the 1st and 2nd gear restriction

..and it's not supposed to rain this weekend. :cool:

[image: View Post]ddr, on 13 February 2011 - 11:26 AM, said:

Just to close the loop: I decided yesterday to purchase a Power Commander instead. It's available now at a reasonable price, I expect it will solve the relatively minor fuelling issues I have, and it avoids the logistical issues of getting my bike to Chino and back. I do hope someone with a DCT takes Bazzaz up on his offer, though. I'm really curious to see what he can do...



There is no issue, just hire me to ride your bike there and back, pay for my room and beer, no problem. :laughing6-hehe:

Just a Fyi on a comparison between their products and dynojet. the Bazzaz Fi module controls all 8 injectors (Primary and secondary) on the new literbikes while the PC5 only controls the primary injectors and you have to buy their secondary fuel module to control the secondary injectors.

Well, I'm headed to Chino in a bit to pick up the VFR. ...I'll have to stash my KTM there until they need the bike back to install the production parts, but I can't wait any longer! ...been the longest month of my adult life I think! lol

So it won't have the Z-Fi installed yet, but it will have the Akro pipe and the Bazzaz quick-shift. ...I'll report on those, at least, when I get back. :)

Does anyone know if someone loaned them a DCT model for testing?

They have not had a DCT in their shop. ...if you're interested in loaning them your bike, you could email Ron Thibodeaux and see what he says.

They are located in Chino Hills, CA.

Do it Stinkyfinger, for the greater good! :fing02: