Dumb question (Not an oil war)

I've searched this question on google, vfrworld, and this forum.

I am wondering if gear driven cams in conjunction with sharing oil with the transmission makes it harder on oil?

I was just reading some threads at bobistheoilguy.com and wondered about that.

Any time the oil is run though something that chews on it will have some effect as far as breaking the oil down( I MHO it's not near a problem to worry about).
Another thing is heat break down, something that needs to be concidered, hence changing as needed(miles / time)
The main problem is running oil though the clutch and plate area, that is what will mix in the oil and run all that crap though everything else (thank you oil filter).
I don't see where the cam chain is going to have any more of a problem than anything else that the oil comes in contact with.

Oils don't shear below their base weight... Viscosity Improvers do...
so if you are worried about shear then ante up the cost of a 100%
synthetic oil such as Mobil 1 or Ams Oil in a 10W 30 because
synthetics need less VIs to stay within grade than straight mineral
oils...

Mineral oil (dino) change recommendations will generally include
shorter time intervals than those of synthetic oils... this is because
synthetics employ less VIs whereas minerals do... VIs will shear down
whereas oil don't....


Let us compare mineral (non synthetics) and synthetic oils.

A 10W-30 multigrade mineral based oil is made from a 10 weight oil and
has VI improvers added to thicken the product in a 212�F engine. It
acts as a 30 weight oil when hot.


A 10W-30 100% synthetic oil is based on a 30 weight oil. This is
unlike the counterpart mineral oil based on a 10 weight oil. There is
no VI improver needed. The oil is already correct for the normal
operating temperature of 212�F. It will never thin because oil
molecules do not break down... just the additives. Generally, the
synthetic oils do not have VI improvers so have less to lose... yet
synthetics have the same long term problem as the mineral based oil.
They both thicken with extended age.

Synthetic oils are derived in the laboratory. They are pure... usually
nearly clear. whereas mineral based motor oils as a distilled,
concentrated product. The impurities need to be removed from the raw
petroleum. These oils are therefore less clean and contain many
impurities.

There are some properties of synthetic oils that actually result is
less wear than with mineral oils. These help increase your HP as well.
Due to a reduction of internal friction of the synthetic oil your
engine will run a bit cooler. Wear increases as temperature increases,
all other things being constant.

If you believe that most wear happens during start up before warm up
then the main advantage that the 100% synthetic has over the mineral
based oil is the ability to lubricate at startup. Both types of oil
have the same specifications at 104�F 212�F and 302�F. It is the
startup viscosity characteristics that separate these oils. 100%
Synthetic oils do not thicken as much on cooling. They have better
fluidity as the temperature drops...

So in conclusion 100% synthetics maybe worth the extra cost if you
like these advantages...

1 Little or no VI (viscosity improvers) to shear down between the gears...

2 Less internal friction and heat equals more HP...

3 Ability to lubricate quicker at start up...



How does an oil 'lose' some of its viscosity in a engine?

Shear stability is a measure of the amount of viscosity an oil may
lose during operation. Oil experiences very high stresses in certain
areas of the engine such as in the oil pump, cam shaft area , piston
rings, and any other areas where two mating surface areas squeeze the
oil film out momentarily . Most multigrade engine oils contain special
types of additives, called Viscosity Index Improvers, which are
composed of very large, viscosity-controlling molecules. As the oil
passes through the engine, these molecules are permanently sheared or
torn apart over time, causing the additive to lose  its
viscosity-contributing advantages which reduces the oils ability to
maintain its higher number. ie.. 10w30 ,

Synth Oils do not rely as much on special Viscosity Index Improver
additives and  will experience little  permanent viscosity loss.

The above post is very informative but one thing that I didn't see mentioned is, motorcycle specific oil takes into account the it will be run though the clutch. Hey if you have any doubts get the oil tested!! I use motorcycle specific oil, if it means anything to you.

 landlover, on 02 April 2011 - 07:29 PM, said:

The above post is very informative but one thing that I didn't see mentioned is, motorcycle specific oil takes into account the it will be run though the clutch. Hey if you have any doubts get the oil tested!! I use motorcycle specific oil, if it means anything to you.

There is no unmotorcycle oil that can defeat a wet motorcycle clutch...

Whats confusing the issue is the fact that all motorcycle wet clutches will reach a point in their life
and start to slip... so someone at some point in time added non motocycle oil and got the clutch
to slip... in error the oil was blamed and the "don't use non motorcycle oil" myth was started... even the
manufactures have gone along with the myth and didn't take the time to sort out the truth...

In short a non motorcycle oil can not defeat a wet clutch... it doesn't matter which oil the owner uses no
one complans about clutch sip when the bike is new... only after the 22 to 28K range...



quote Sportrider:
"Can synthetic oils cause my clutch to slip?"

"To answer this in one word: No. Clutch slippage is caused by many
things, but the use of synthetic oil alone is usually not the culprit.
The truth is that some bikes seem to suffer clutch slippage no
matter what oil goes in them, while others run fine with any oil. This
is most likely caused by factors other than the oil, such as the
spring pressure, age and clutch plate materials. If you have
a bike known for clutch problems, you may have to be more selective in
your oil choices. Moly is often blamed for clutch slippage, and it can
have an effect-but moly alone is not the problem. We wish there was a
hard and fast rule to follow, but it is just not that easy. Simply
put, you will have to try an oil and evaluate it. If you experience
slippage with the new oil, and have not had problems before, it may be
the oil. The plates and/or springs could also be worn to the point
that they have finally started to slip. Simply change back to the
previous oil and see what happens. You can also check the test data in
next issue's article to see if that particular oil has a significant
amount of moly. If so, try one that does not have as much moly next time."

"We talked to Mark Junge, Vesrah's Racing representative, who has won
numerous WERA national championships using Vesrah's clutches. He said
that in his years of engine work he has yet to see a slipping clutch
that could be pinned on synthetic motor oil. Junge felt that nearly
every time the clutch was marginal or had worn springs, the new oil
just revealed a problem that already existed."

sry but another thing, if your looking at oils, auto oil and motorcycle oil are "mostly" alike, the differences are the additives...in auto oils there are additives that improves the oils ability to "slide" in the engine (sry i cant remember the name of it), but in motorcycle oils if you had the same additives you would destroy your clutch plates REALLY fast, in other words, burn out your plates

btw motorcycle oils use higher levels of anti-wear additives such as ZDDP, also known as phosphorous, to limit engine friction and wear. Since motorcycle oil has extra anti-wear additives and is lubricating so much more than automotive oil, you can expect to pay anywhere from $9 to $15 a quart.

i think we are getting off topic too   :beatdeadhorse:

I dont care if you use peanut butter....If you change the oil often and dont let it sit, everything will be fine.

I am not in search of the perfect oil I just wanted to read some different opinions, thats all.

I use either rotella, chevron delo, or mobile 1 delvac 15w40 in my VFR with a BOSCH 3323 filter.
I use whatever walmart has a special on and have had great luck with all three.
The bosch 3323 is a little bigger then OEM has high marks on bobistheoilguy.com and is half the cost of the OEM filter.

I always like your posts BLS because you give a lot of facts and I always learn something.

I share the same mentality as you timmy thats why I use the above oils. I like the heavier weight too because I ride year round and live in the valley of az.

mmmhh  when was my oil changed last???   :mellow:



mental note:
change in fall with Mobil1 full sync.....