New Owner VFR1200 DCT

Last weekend I purchased a new VFR1200 in the DCT model. I have read on here about the power restrictions, but didn't realize just exactly to what extent. So this weekend I am riding with a couple of my buddies, one has a stock Harley FXD, and the other a Victory Classic tourer. So we are sitting at a stop light and decide to race to the next light. The light turns green and I pin the throttle and was totally surprised at what happened, which was almost nothing! My buddies left me sitting still. My VFR1200 which totally blows them away riding down the road, left the stop light slower than any bike I have ever ridden, and I have had allot of bikes, Not only did it leave at what felt like about 1/4 throttle, it held that rate of power application for what seemed like an eternity, and then as if you flipped a switch, the power hit, and it took off at full power. By the time the power came on, my buddies were coming to a stop at the next lightThis was in the "sport mode."

I understand maybe having the clutch come in soft, and maybe ramp up the power, but is this extreme the way all the DCT's react to wide open throttle? Has anyone else with a DCT tried this?

Thanks for the help............

Search is your friend:

http://www.vfrdiscus...t-and-2nd-gear/

Thanks for the link...........

I found and read through that thread, and understand that the de-restriction mod does not work on the DCT model. What I am trying to figure out is rather my bike is on par with what is being called "restricted." In my opinion restricted doesn't even come close to describing the crippling effect Honda has blessed this bike with. It's classed as a "Sport Tourer" and there is nothing sporting about being left at a stop light by a Harley.

cruzn1961, on 12 April 2011 - 06:35 AM, said:

Last weekend I purchased a new VFR1200 in the DCT model. I have read on here about the power restrictions, but didn't realize just exactly to what extent. So this weekend I am riding with a couple of my buddies, one has a stock Harley FXD, and the other a Victory Classic tourer. So we are sitting at a stop light and decide to race to the next light. The light turns green and I pin the throttle and was totally surprised at what happened, which was almost nothing! My buddies left me sitting still. My VFR1200 which totally blows them away riding down the road, left the stop light slower than any bike I have ever ridden, and I have had allot of bikes, Not only did it leave at what felt like about 1/4 throttle, it held that rate of power application for what seemed like an eternity, and then as if you flipped a switch, the power hit, and it took off at full power. By the time the power came on, my buddies were coming to a stop at the next lightThis was in the "sport mode."

I understand maybe having the clutch come in soft, and maybe ramp up the power, but is this extreme the way all the DCT's react to wide open throttle? Has anyone else with a DCT tried this?

Thanks for the help............

First you are not going to have the advantage of dropping the clutch like in a non DCT bike, Second the DCT clutch system is not as stout as the non DCT system so as a result there is a lag or holding back on power until it reaches a certain rpm range. I believe cycle world had an article about this. Third may want to try manual instead of sport mode. Fourth bike is plenty fast for me.

If this clutch is so fragile that it can't handle any more power than it is being given, it will never last. I'm going to put it on the dyno and open the throttle, I bet it puts no more than 40 HP to the ground until it's in second gear. As for being fast, yes the bike goes well once you're rolling and up to speed, but take off performance is pittiful.
I'll try manual mode just for kicks.
Thanks for the reply.

Podman, on 12 April 2011 - 04:18 PM, said:

First you are not going to have the advantage of dropping the clutch like in a non DCT bike, Second the DCT clutch system is not as stout as the non DCT system so as a result there is a lag or holding back on power until it reaches a certain rpm range. I believe cycle world had an article about this. Third may want to try manual instead of sport mode. Fourth bike is plenty fast for me.

[image: View Post]cruzn1961, on 12 April 2011 - 04:30 PM, said:

If this clutch is so fragile that it can't handle any more power than it is being given, it will never last. I'm going to put it on the dyno and open the throttle, I bet it puts no more than 40 HP to the ground until it's in second gear. As for being fast, yes the bike goes well once you're rolling and up to speed, but take off performance is pittiful.
I'll try manual mode just for kicks.
Thanks for the reply.

[image: View Post]Podman, on 12 April 2011 - 04:18 PM, said:

First you are not going to have the advantage of dropping the clutch like in a non DCT bike, Second the DCT clutch system is not as stout as the non DCT system so as a result there is a lag or holding back on power until it reaches a certain rpm range. I believe cycle world had an article about this. Third may want to try manual instead of sport mode. Fourth bike is plenty fast for me.


If you were expecting a drag bike, you bought the wrong bike. I've never once heard anyone describe Sport Touring as part drag racing. Sell it and buy a Harley or something long and low with lots of bottom end. Ride the bike the way it was intended and no Harley or Victory will hold a candle to it. Horses for courses.

As for the clutch being fragile (not sure where you got that notion), there is no way Honda would release such a thing. There have been no reports or even rumors of a weak clutch.

No, I wasn't expecting a "Drag Bike" If I wanted to drag race, which I "do" I would be riding my ZX14. What I "was" expecting was that a bike sold as a "sport" tourer would at least be a "little" sporty in all respects. Honda brags about this engine and all the new tech. Nowhere does Honda say this bike takes off extremely slow. In all the searching I did before buying the bike, I found no mention of such. Different people buy a bike for different reasons, and we all have our own reasons. If Honda had disclosed how lame this bike was taking off, I would never have bought it. As for selling it, I doubt too many people will pony up the $18,000 I now owe on it. If so, come get it today.

Thanks for the reply. You're entitled to your opinion, and I'm entitled to mine. I think the bike is very mis-represented and I hope this saves someone the dissapointment that I now feel.

[image: View Post]Solomoto, on 13 April 2011 - 10:26 PM, said:

[image: View Post]cruzn1961, on 12 April 2011 - 04:30 PM, said:

If this clutch is so fragile that it can't handle any more power than it is being given, it will never last. I'm going to put it on the dyno and open the throttle, I bet it puts no more than 40 HP to the ground until it's in second gear. As for being fast, yes the bike goes well once you're rolling and up to speed, but take off performance is pittiful.
I'll try manual mode just for kicks.
Thanks for the reply.

[image: View Post]Podman, on 12 April 2011 - 04:18 PM, said:

First you are not going to have the advantage of dropping the clutch like in a non DCT bike, Second the DCT clutch system is not as stout as the non DCT system so as a result there is a lag or holding back on power until it reaches a certain rpm range. I believe cycle world had an article about this. Third may want to try manual instead of sport mode. Fourth bike is plenty fast for me.


If you were expecting a drag bike, you bought the wrong bike. I've never once heard anyone describe Sport Touring as part drag racing. Sell it and buy a Harley or something long and low with lots of bottom end. Ride the bike the way it was intended and no Harley or Victory will hold a candle to it. Horses for courses.

As for the clutch being fragile (not sure where you got that notion), there is no way Honda would release such a thing. There have been no reports or even rumors of a weak clutch.

How many miles are on the bike? I only ask because my understanding is that the DCT model is overly restricted during the break-in period. Not sure if this is true, but I'd heard from other DCT owners that the bike was very sluggish until after X number of miles before it "came alive".

I know on the standard the fueling SUCKS until 6k in 1st and 2nd gear; there's a fix for it on the standard, but not the DCT though.

Good luck, I hope she ends up making you happy!!!

[image: View Post]cruzn1961, on 14 April 2011 - 05:50 AM, said:

No, I wasn't expecting a "Drag Bike" If I wanted to drag race, which I "do" I would be riding my ZX14. What I "was" expecting was that a bike sold as a "sport" tourer would at least be a "little" sporty in all respects. Honda brags about this engine and all the new tech. Nowhere does Honda say this bike takes off extremely slow. In all the searching I did before buying the bike, I found no mention of such. Different people buy a bike for different reasons, and we all have our own reasons. If Honda had disclosed how lame this bike was taking off, I would never have bought it. As for selling it, I doubt too many people will pony up the $18,000 I now owe on it. If so, come get it today.

Thanks for the reply. You're entitled to your opinion, and I'm entitled to mine. I think the bike is very mis-represented and I hope this saves someone the dissapointment that I now feel.

[image: View Post]Solomoto, on 13 April 2011 - 10:26 PM, said:

[image: View Post]cruzn1961, on 12 April 2011 - 04:30 PM, said:

If this clutch is so fragile that it can't handle any more power than it is being given, it will never last. I'm going to put it on the dyno and open the throttle, I bet it puts no more than 40 HP to the ground until it's in second gear. As for being fast, yes the bike goes well once you're rolling and up to speed, but take off performance is pittiful.
I'll try manual mode just for kicks.
Thanks for the reply.

[image: View Post]Podman, on 12 April 2011 - 04:18 PM, said:

First you are not going to have the advantage of dropping the clutch like in a non DCT bike, Second the DCT clutch system is not as stout as the non DCT system so as a result there is a lag or holding back on power until it reaches a certain rpm range. I believe cycle world had an article about this. Third may want to try manual instead of sport mode. Fourth bike is plenty fast for me.


If you were expecting a drag bike, you bought the wrong bike. I've never once heard anyone describe Sport Touring as part drag racing. Sell it and buy a Harley or something long and low with lots of bottom end. Ride the bike the way it was intended and no Harley or Victory will hold a candle to it. Horses for courses.

As for the clutch being fragile (not sure where you got that notion), there is no way Honda would release such a thing. There have been no reports or even rumors of a weak clutch.


Shoulda test rode it first then. Can't use the argument the dealer doesn't offer test rides, cash on the table is what matters to them.

I can certainly understand your frustration. Esp. coming off ZX14 AND having paid 18K for the bike.
I wonder if 1/4 mile times have ever been posted for the DCT. Usually bike rags post those numbers for everything.
And if not, then I wonder if they had a discussion with H re. posting them once they've discovered that numbers aren't what is expected of a 1200cc sport touring bike.

Any way, you probably bought the bike for other purpose than racing between lights and by all accounts it serves that purpose very well indeed.
Since you really don't ave a choice at this point, use it as intended and enjoy it.

If there is an override switch for the DCT, then there should not be any issue as that would be the "sport mode" for the bike. Only thing to still figure out is whether the DCT does mean a more fragile clutch. Maybe Honda should just clarify what, or if any limitation does present themselves when driving in DCT mode so no one will be surprised when they buy the bike.

Beck
95 VFR

[image: View Post]cruzn1961, on 14 April 2011 - 05:50 AM, said:

No, I wasn't expecting a "Drag Bike" If I wanted to drag race, which I "do" I would be riding my ZX14. What I "was" expecting was that a bike sold as a "sport" tourer would at least be a "little" sporty in all respects. Honda brags about this engine and all the new tech. Nowhere does Honda say this bike takes off extremely slow. In all the searching I did before buying the bike, I found no mention of such. Different people buy a bike for different reasons, and we all have our own reasons. If Honda had disclosed how lame this bike was taking off, I would never have bought it. As for selling it, I doubt too many people will pony up the $18,000 I now owe on it. If so, come get it today.

Thanks for the reply. You're entitled to your opinion, and I'm entitled to mine. I think the bike is very mis-represented and I hope this saves someone the disappointment that I now feel.

Cruzn,

I understand your disappointment and wish that Honda hadn't felt the need to play "nanny" and keep us all safe from ourselves by restricting power. Do you notice this same takeoff in all modes (Drive, Sport and Manual)?

I recently had a chance to demo a DCT model and the Drive mode was nauseating to me. Like you, I prefer (or rather EXPECT) that a sport touring bike would have a swift launch and nothing less should be expected... ESPECIALLY out of a 1200cc sport touring machine. IMHO the "S" Sport mode was also soft for my tastes. I've read that the system "adapts" to the pilot, and as my ride was only 6 miles long it is quite possible/probable that the bike would not have adapted to my rapid acceleration/takeoff tastes. Thinking back, I've certain that I would have had at least one takeoff in "M" Manual mode however and don't recall it being nearly as bad. In all honesty I found Manual to be acceptable on all faucets but found the automatic/computer chosen shift points horrible for my personal tastes.

I have not ruled out a VFR1200 by any means, but if I get one I now know that it would be a standard clutch model that I could de-restrict in first and second since I'm a control freak and don't like the computer shifting for me anyway. To me, it's a comp-out to say that your expectations are too high... possibly a touchy area to somebody that has big $$$ invested in a bike that you are not enamored with? :comp13:

Thanks to everyone for the reply's........................
Funny you mention dragstrip numbers. I couldn't find any numbers for the DCT model, yet there were plenty posted for the standard model. Again, they both are "Sport Tourers" so if there is any significant differences in performance between the 2 models, you would "think" Honda would say so. Anyway, took the bike to the track and here are the real world numbers.........I weigh 195 suited.

"D" mode: 12.39 @ 118 MPH
"S" mode 11.37 @ 131

The sad thing is that even though in sport mode it revs higher in each gear and goes faster, the take off performance is just as lame as "D" mode. It's more than the clutch coming in soft, it stays in that "bogged down" mode for almost the first 330' and then takes off like you flipped a switch. This bike would easily run low 10's if it wasn't being gagged by the computer. The fact that it still runs 131 MPH even with such a pittiful take off says there is "plenty" of power available. I didn't buy the bike to drag race especially, but for what the bike costs, I expected a "sporting" level of performance under all conditions. From time to time someone is going to want to pin the throttle at a stop light when riding with buddies, that's the real world, and they are going to be "so" dissapointed......................

I agree with you though, I'm stuck with it, so I guess I'll have to enjoy it for what it is. I still think Honda should be more upfront about about these short comings.

Thanks again!

[image: View Post]Rice, on 14 April 2011 - 01:13 PM, said:

I can certainly understand your frustration. Esp. coming off ZX14 AND having paid 18K for the bike.
I wonder if 1/4 mile times have ever been posted for the DCT. Usually bike rags post those numbers for everything.
And if not, then I wonder if they had a discussion with H re. posting them once they've discovered that numbers aren't what is expected of a 1200cc sport touring bike.

Any way, you probably bought the bike for other purpose than racing between lights and by all accounts it serves that purpose very well indeed.
Since you really don't ave a choice at this point, use it as intended and enjoy it.

My honest opinion is that the clutch really isn't "fragile." I think Honda applied the same level of restriction to the DCT model as it did the standard model. Looking at the owners manual, the DCT has a higher gear ration in 1st and 2nd than the standard. So now we have a clutch engaging at a very low 1100 RPMS, a higher gear ratio, "and" the same level of restriction as a standard model. It's easy to see why it is so lazy to get moving.

[image: View Post]Beck, on 14 April 2011 - 01:24 PM, said:

If there is an override switch for the DCT, then there should not be any issue as that would be the "sport mode" for the bike. Only thing to still figure out is whether the DCT does mean a more fragile clutch. Maybe Honda should just clarify what, or if any limitation does present themselves when driving in DCT mode so no one will be surprised when they buy the bike.

Beck
95 VFR

It's nice to hear from a few people that have something to say other than expecting a "sport tourer" to be sporty is asking too much.......

I think that what you are referring to as the sport mode adjusting to the rider's style is that the harder you twist the throttle, the higher it revs before shifting. If you are gentle with the throttle, it responds by shifting sooner.

I just got back from a ride and did some experimenting...........It doesn't matter what mode you are in, "D" "Sport" or "manual" punching it from a dead stop has the same reaction. The bike lurches ahead about 3 feet like it is going to take off, then chokes up and the revs build "very" gradually until the tach hits 5000 rpms, at which point the power hits very abruptly and it takes off like a bat outa hell. I think this is actually more dangerous than if the power came in unrestricted, at least then you could feel it build and react to it. This "light switch" application of power could cause a problem if you are not expecting it and it hits at the wrong moment.

I think this is the restriction noted in the standards, but because of the low rpm engagement, and the taller gearing of 1st and 2nd in the DCT, it is just much more pronounced in the DCT model.

Sure wish there was a fix for the DCT because other than the lazy take off, I love the bike........................

[image: View Post]MattB, on 14 April 2011 - 02:23 PM, said:

[image: View Post]cruzn1961, on 14 April 2011 - 05:50 AM, said:

No, I wasn't expecting a "Drag Bike" If I wanted to drag race, which I "do" I would be riding my ZX14. What I "was" expecting was that a bike sold as a "sport" tourer would at least be a "little" sporty in all respects. Honda brags about this engine and all the new tech. Nowhere does Honda say this bike takes off extremely slow. In all the searching I did before buying the bike, I found no mention of such. Different people buy a bike for different reasons, and we all have our own reasons. If Honda had disclosed how lame this bike was taking off, I would never have bought it. As for selling it, I doubt too many people will pony up the $18,000 I now owe on it. If so, come get it today.

Thanks for the reply. You're entitled to your opinion, and I'm entitled to mine. I think the bike is very mis-represented and I hope this saves someone the disappointment that I now feel.

Cruzn,

I understand your disappointment and wish that Honda hadn't felt the need to play "nanny" and keep us all safe from ourselves by restricting power. Do you notice this same takeoff in all modes (Drive, Sport and Manual)?

I recently had a chance to demo a DCT model and the Drive mode was nauseating to me. Like you, I prefer (or rather EXPECT) that a sport touring bike would have a swift launch and nothing less should be expected... ESPECIALLY out of a 1200cc sport touring machine. IMHO the "S" Sport mode was also soft for my tastes. I've read that the system "adapts" to the pilot, and as my ride was only 6 miles long it is quite possible/probable that the bike would not have adapted to my rapid acceleration/takeoff tastes. Thinking back, I've certain that I would have had at least one takeoff in "M" Manual mode however and don't recall it being nearly as bad. In all honesty I found Manual to be acceptable on all faucets but found the automatic/computer chosen shift points horrible for my personal tastes.

I have not ruled out a VFR1200 by any means, but if I get one I now know that it would be a standard clutch model that I could de-restrict in first and second since I'm a control freak and don't like the computer shifting for me anyway. To me, it's a comp-out to say that your expectations are too high... possibly a touchy area to somebody that has big $$$ invested in a bike that you are not enamored with? :comp13:

Let's look at the flip side of the argument:
Let's stipulate that yes HD xlsdhabcdyz takes off like stink from a stop or at least quicker than the VFR. Yet how many cruiser riders complain that they can't corner like a sport bike nor can cruise all day at triple digits? And what about braking? It takes a Harley a country mile to stop from 60mph, but the VFR drops an anchor when you want it to. After all, why pay $20K+ for a bike that can't corner or stop like sportbike? Shouldn't Harley post this limitation and warn their potential customers of these "shortcomings" ?

If harley used the name "Sport" in the description of a bike, then yes I would expect it to perform in a sporting manor. I think you're missing the point.

[image: View Post]Solomoto, on 14 April 2011 - 04:10 PM, said:

Let's look at the flip side of the argument:
Let's stipulate that yes HD xlsdhabcdyz takes off like stink from a stop or at least quicker than the VFR. Yet how many cruiser riders complain that they can't corner like a sport bike nor can cruise all day at triple digits? And what about braking? It takes a Harley a country mile to stop from 60mph, but the VFR drops an anchor when you want it to. After all, why pay $20K+ for a bike that can't corner or stop like sportbike? Shouldn't Harley post this limitation and warn their potential customers of these "shortcomings" ?

[image: View Post]cruzn1961, on 14 April 2011 - 05:10 PM, said:

If harley used the name "Sport" in the description of a bike, then yes I would expect it to perform in a sporting manor. I think you're missing the point.

[image: View Post]Solomoto, on 14 April 2011 - 04:10 PM, said:

Let's look at the flip side of the argument:
Let's stipulate that yes HD xlsdhabcdyz takes off like stink from a stop or at least quicker than the VFR. Yet how many cruiser riders complain that they can't corner like a sport bike nor can cruise all day at triple digits? And what about braking? It takes a Harley a country mile to stop from 60mph, but the VFR drops an anchor when you want it to. After all, why pay $20K+ for a bike that can't corner or stop like sportbike? Shouldn't Harley post this limitation and warn their potential customers of these "shortcomings" ?


I agree, we expect more from Honda than "Harleyesque" compromises. Afterall, the 1200 is the comapny's "flagship" bike, isn't it??
Let's hope that there is an electronic "fix" in the works out there by Honda or third parties.....
40ish feeling HP off the line does sound a bit silly for any 1200cc sport touring bike.......unless it's a Hardley??

Beck
95 VFR

[image: View Post]cruzn1961, on 14 April 2011 - 02:39 PM, said:

Thanks to everyone for the reply's........................
Funny you mention dragstrip numbers. I couldn't find any numbers for the DCT model, yet there were plenty posted for the standard model. Again, they both are "Sport Tourers" so if there is any significant differences in performance between the 2 models, you would "think" Honda would say so. Anyway, took the bike to the track and here are the real world numbers.........I weigh 195 suited.

"D" mode: 12.39 @ 118 MPH
"S" mode 11.37 @ 131


Do you have drag numbers in M mode? I've only been riding around in manual mode and it seems plenty quick on the take off to me. I'm still in the break in phase, so I've been taking it easy.

[image: View Post]cruzn1961, on 12 April 2011 - 06:35 AM, said:

Last weekend I purchased a new VFR1200 in the DCT model. I have read on here about the power restrictions, but didn't realize just exactly to what extent. So this weekend I am riding with a couple of my buddies, one has a stock Harley FXD, and the other a Victory Classic tourer. So we are sitting at a stop light and decide to race to the next light. The light turns green and I pin the throttle and was totally surprised at what happened, which was almost nothing! My buddies left me sitting still. My VFR1200 which totally blows them away riding down the road, left the stop light slower than any bike I have ever ridden, and I have had allot of bikes, Not only did it leave at what felt like about 1/4 throttle, it held that rate of power application for what seemed like an eternity, and then as if you flipped a switch, the power hit, and it took off at full power. By the time the power came on, my buddies were coming to a stop at the next lightThis was in the "sport mode."

I understand maybe having the clutch come in soft, and maybe ramp up the power, but is this extreme the way all the DCT's react to wide open throttle? Has anyone else with a DCT tried this?

Thanks for the help............



Is it possible that some sort of adjustment may be necessary, i.e. ECM udate, throttle body sync, etc? I have not experienced the same problem on my DCT. Mine typically takes off like a jack rabbit from the start and other bikes have trouble keeping up with me while taking off. Although I don't recall laucnching at WOT, but you are correct... it should be able to take a Harley, Victory or any other cruiser from stop light to stop light. Please see my attached post below. I hope I am not getting off topic, but the DCT is really fast. You may have to copy the link and drop it into your address bar to go to the post. http://vfrworld.com/...ght=#post303444

Thank you,
anbark22

I didn't run it at the track in "M" mode, but I did some testing yesterday and the take of performance is the same in "M" mode as in the other modes. Until I pinned the throttle for the first time, I "thought" mine would be quick of the line becasue it moves the first 3 feet or so very fast, then chokes up. I'll be interested to see how yours goes when you pin it. I am looking at another members reply and he also says his is very fast off the line, which is starting to make me think there might be something wrong with mine. Thanks for the reply.

[image: View Post]stinkyfinger, on 14 April 2011 - 07:30 PM, said:

[image: View Post]cruzn1961, on 14 April 2011 - 02:39 PM, said:

Thanks to everyone for the reply's........................
Funny you mention dragstrip numbers. I couldn't find any numbers for the DCT model, yet there were plenty posted for the standard model. Again, they both are "Sport Tourers" so if there is any significant differences in performance between the 2 models, you would "think" Honda would say so. Anyway, took the bike to the track and here are the real world numbers.........I weigh 195 suited.

"D" mode: 12.39 @ 118 MPH
"S" mode 11.37 @ 131


Do you have drag numbers in M mode? I've only been riding around in manual mode and it seems plenty quick on the take off to me. I'm still in the break in phase, so I've been taking it easy.

Thank you, I read your post, and that is interesting. I am starting to wonder if my bike has a problem or not. I found a review on line last night that showed a video of a DCT pinning it from a dead stop and it only took about a second for the bike to come into it's power, and then it lifted the front wheel. Does yours do that? My bike doesn't even "think" about lifting the front wheel. When I pin it, I have time to put my feet on the pegs, and then I'm waiting and waiting as the bike "slowly" reaches 5000 rpm's and then "wham" the power hits and I'm off. I agree 100 percent about the bikes power accelerating through the gears. Once it finally reaches the power, it's acceleration is quite impressive and the DCT is saving at least 1/10th of a second on every shift, which is a huge advatage when you are rolling beside a bike that needs to blip the throttle to shift. I guess it's time to go see the dealer, only wiith this being the only DCT they had, I'm worried they will not be much help.

[image: View Post]anbark22, on 14 April 2011 - 08:35 PM, said:

[image: View Post]cruzn1961, on 12 April 2011 - 06:35 AM, said:

Last weekend I purchased a new VFR1200 in the DCT model. I have read on here about the power restrictions, but didn't realize just exactly to what extent. So this weekend I am riding with a couple of my buddies, one has a stock Harley FXD, and the other a Victory Classic tourer. So we are sitting at a stop light and decide to race to the next light. The light turns green and I pin the throttle and was totally surprised at what happened, which was almost nothing! My buddies left me sitting still. My VFR1200 which totally blows them away riding down the road, left the stop light slower than any bike I have ever ridden, and I have had allot of bikes, Not only did it leave at what felt like about 1/4 throttle, it held that rate of power application for what seemed like an eternity, and then as if you flipped a switch, the power hit, and it took off at full power. By the time the power came on, my buddies were coming to a stop at the next lightThis was in the "sport mode."

I understand maybe having the clutch come in soft, and maybe ramp up the power, but is this extreme the way all the DCT's react to wide open throttle? Has anyone else with a DCT tried this?

Thanks for the help............



Is it possible that some sort of adjustment may be necessary, i.e. ECM udate, throttle body sync, etc? I have not experienced the same problem on my DCT. Mine typically takes off like a jack rabbit from the start and other bikes have trouble keeping up with me while taking off. Although I don't recall laucnching at WOT, but you are correct... it should be able to take a Harley, Victory or any other cruiser from stop light to stop light. Please see my attached post below. I hope I am not getting off topic, but the DCT is really fast. You may have to copy the link and drop it into your address bar to go to the post. http://vfrworld.com/...ght=#post303444

Thank you,
anbark22

[image: View Post]cruzn1961, on 15 April 2011 - 05:17 AM, said:

Thank you, I read your post, and that is interesting. I am starting to wonder if my bike has a problem or not. I found a review on line last night that showed a video of a DCT pinning it from a dead stop and it only took about a second for the bike to come into it's power, and then it lifted the front wheel. Does yours do that? My bike doesn't even "think" about lifting the front wheel. When I pin it, I have time to put my feet on the pegs, and then I'm waiting and waiting as the bike "slowly" reaches 5000 rpm's and then "wham" the power hits and I'm off. I agree 100 percent about the bikes power accelerating through the gears. Once it finally reaches the power, it's acceleration is quite impressive and the DCT is saving at least 1/10th of a second on every shift, which is a huge advatage when you are rolling beside a bike that needs to blip the throttle to shift. I guess it's time to go see the dealer, only wiith this being the only DCT they had, I'm worried they will not be much help.




You are not alone in this. I had read all of these threads about the power restrictions below 5000 rmp before I bought my DCT but until I rode it, I didn't clue in that it actually equated to a lack of responsiveness. The first day I had it was a real surprise how (comparatively) sluggish it was off the line. I am past the stage in my life of trying to take anybody off the line (other than maybe to get a better advantage in traffic positioning) so I have willingly accepted this compromise in exchange for the exhilaration that comes with the DCT above 5000 rpm. But, at least on my bike and yours, it really is a compromise in the lower revs.

My bigger issue with the lack of responsiveness in the lower rpm is having the power to avoid emergency situations when just driving around town. For example, in Sport mode at about 50 kmh my bike is typically in second gear and well below 5000 rpm. I make a point of never sitting in a cage's blind spot so I will often launch up my lane a little bit so I know that the cage driver knows I am there. With this power restriction, there is a lag in response on a roll-on and getting myself into sight is less instantaneous than I am used to on my V65 and has caused me to have to factor in that delay when I'm in the lower rpm. To date, no issue. However, I am a little concerned about the time that it is an actual "must react now" accident avoidance situation and that fraction of a second delay is the difference between accident and no accident. Defensive driving can only get you so far...

Don't get me wrong; I really love this bike, and the DCT is a blast and I have no regrets at all about buying it. I also understand that with this much power, Honda felt that it needed to do something for riders who are not used to it or want to control it in less than ideal riding conditions or otherwise (as some have said, a poor man's traction control). I just wish it was in my hands to decide.

[image: View Post]rubbersidedown, on 15 April 2011 - 08:24 AM, said:

I just wish it was in my hands to decide.

Yep.
Why didn't H just use Sport mode to de-restrict the power completely is beyound me.
This is one instance where being different from the pack is not a good thing.

First of all, thank you for the detailed response,

I know now, that there isn't something "wrong" with my particular bike.
The point you make about lack of instant power to get out of a bad situation, is a very valid one. I've been riding for 40 years, and there have been countless times when the power and acceleration of a bike has given me options to escape a bad situation that I would not have with an automobile. Sometimes we can "power" out of a bad spot that braking doesn't allow. With this low rpm restriction, that advantage has diminished greatly.

Honda thinks they are saving us from ourselves apparently. However, I think the "light switch" type of power hit at 5000 rpms is far more dangerous than having the power build in a linear fashion as you twist the throttle. Imagine someone that opens the throttle, feels what appears to be a level of acceleration and leans the bike into a corner. Then the power hits at 5000rpms and the bike comes out from under them.

Personally, I bought this motorcycle expecting it to have the claimed150 rear wheel horse power when I want it, not when Honda decides I can have it. There is already a built in safety device for those not wanting to use the 150 horse power, it's called a "THROTTLE."

I talked to the dealer today and they are setting me an appointment with the Honda rep next time he is in town. It probably won't do much good, but the service shops get points against them for not being able to please a customer. The service manager felt that if enough people complain, Honda might respond with a fix. We can only hope...............

If this bike was not "fly by wire" it would be restricted with fuel and timing and I would hope that maybe a Power commander 5 would be able to work around the problem. I have a feeling though, that with the fly by wire set up, Honda has simply decided to only open the throttle valve a little bit until after 5000 rpms. If that turns out to be the case, it will be much more difficult to get around the restriction. I have a friend with a dyno and I'm going to try to get the bike on it, with the bodywork off and watch the throttle valve to see what is happening when the throttle is opened up.

[image: View Post]rubbersidedown, on 15 April 2011 - 08:24 AM, said:

[image: View Post]cruzn1961, on 15 April 2011 - 05:17 AM, said:

Thank you, I read your post, and that is interesting. I am starting to wonder if my bike has a problem or not. I found a review on line last night that showed a video of a DCT pinning it from a dead stop and it only took about a second for the bike to come into it's power, and then it lifted the front wheel. Does yours do that? My bike doesn't even "think" about lifting the front wheel. When I pin it, I have time to put my feet on the pegs, and then I'm waiting and waiting as the bike "slowly" reaches 5000 rpm's and then "wham" the power hits and I'm off. I agree 100 percent about the bikes power accelerating through the gears. Once it finally reaches the power, it's acceleration is quite impressive and the DCT is saving at least 1/10th of a second on every shift, which is a huge advatage when you are rolling beside a bike that needs to blip the throttle to shift. I guess it's time to go see the dealer, only wiith this being the only DCT they had, I'm worried they will not be much help.




You are not alone in this. I had read all of these threads about the power restrictions below 5000 rmp before I bought my DCT but until I rode it, I didn't clue in that it actually equated to a lack of responsiveness. The first day I had it was a real surprise how (comparatively) sluggish it was off the line. I am past the stage in my life of trying to take anybody off the line (other than maybe to get a better advantage in traffic positioning) so I have willingly accepted this compromise in exchange for the exhilaration that comes with the DCT above 5000 rpm. But, at least on my bike and yours, it really is a compromise in the lower revs.

My bigger issue with the lack of responsiveness in the lower rpm is having the power to avoid emergency situations when just driving around town. For example, in Sport mode at about 50 kmh my bike is typically in second gear and well below 5000 rpm. I make a point of never sitting in a cage's blind spot so I will often launch up my lane a little bit so I know that the cage driver knows I am there. With this power restriction, there is a lag in response on a roll-on and getting myself into sight is less instantaneous than I am used to on my V65 and has caused me to have to factor in that delay when I'm in the lower rpm. To date, no issue. However, I am a little concerned about the time that it is an actual "must react now" accident avoidance situation and that fraction of a second delay is the difference between accident and no accident. Defensive driving can only get you so far...

Don't get me wrong; I really love this bike, and the DCT is a blast and I have no regrets at all about buying it. I also understand that with this much power, Honda felt that it needed to do something for riders who are not used to it or want to control it in less than ideal riding conditions or otherwise (as some have said, a poor man's traction control). I just wish it was in my hands to decide.

Absolutely!

The funny thing is, reading the manual would give you the impression Sport mode takes off quicker. Maybe something is lost in the translation, but it say use sport mode for passing and "pulling away faster."

[image: View Post]Rice, on 15 April 2011 - 09:04 AM, said:

[image: View Post]rubbersidedown, on 15 April 2011 - 08:24 AM, said:

I just wish it was in my hands to decide.

Yep.
Why didn't H just use Sport mode to de-restrict the power completely is beyound me.
This is one instance where being different from the pack is not a good thing.

[image: View Post]cruzn1961, on 15 April 2011 - 03:48 PM, said:

Absolutely!

The funny thing is, reading the manual would give you the impression Sport mode takes off quicker. Maybe something is lost in the translation, but it say use sport mode for passing and "pulling away faster."

[image: View Post]Rice, on 15 April 2011 - 09:04 AM, said:

[image: View Post]rubbersidedown, on 15 April 2011 - 08:24 AM, said:

Fellas, to try and compare a high-revving Honda to an agricultural H-D's torque output doesn't make sense. They probably make similar outputs, but the HD at 2000 rpm and the Honda at 9000. So to expect to outdrag the HD at the lights probably isn't going to work.
Yes the power is restricted in first and second, for a good reason. There's a couple of guys (Dutchy/Dutchgixxer) who have applied a derestriction to their manual bikes and one of them has reverted back to normal because it just spins up the rear tyre!
The DCT is suited to the open road, not the traffic light GP. Guess we'll just have to live with it...
I just wish it was in my hands to decide.

Yep.
Why didn't H just use Sport mode to de-restrict the power completely is beyound me.
This is one instance where being different from the pack is not a good thing.

Give it a while see if changes and if does not you have to deal with the dealer and HONDA .

[image: View Post]cruzn1961, on 14 April 2011 - 05:10 PM, said:

If harley used the name "Sport" in the description of a bike, then yes I would expect it to perform in a sporting manor.


You mean like a Harley-Davidson SPORTster, their slowest model with arguably the worst brakes?
:biggrin:

Back on topic, 11.39 is a very respectable drag time for a sportTOURING bike. So it's not as fast as a BUSA or a literbike, that's still a helluva lot faster than a Viper or Corvette.
Why did you make a pass in Drive mode, but not Manual mode? The numbers for the Manual mode would be interesting to see...

LOL I was waiting for someone to bring up the Harley "Sportster."
I didn't make a pass in manual mode only because the launch is the same as in sport mode. In sport mode the bike shifts just before the redline, keeping it right in the meat of the power so I don't believe there is anything to be gained by manual mode performance wise. I'll try it though, next chance I get.
True 11.39 is a decent time, especially in light of the take off. However, from what I can gather it is quite allot slower than a standard clutch model, and again seems like Honda should have made that clear because I would have bought the model with the clutch had I known. The sad thing is that this bike "would" give a Busa or ZX14 a run for it's money if it would gets it's ass moving off the line. I ride a ZX14 and I'm not saying the VFR is as fast, but it would put up a good fight.

[image: View Post]Ryanme17, on 24 April 2011 - 05:13 PM, said:

[image: View Post]cruzn1961, on 14 April 2011 - 05:10 PM, said:

If harley used the name "Sport" in the description of a bike, then yes I would expect it to perform in a sporting manor.


You mean like a Harley-Davidson SPORTster, their slowest model with arguably the worst brakes?
:biggrin:

Back on topic, 11.39 is a very respectable drag time for a sportTOURING bike. So it's not as fast as a BUSA or a literbike, that's still a helluva lot faster than a Viper or Corvette.
Why did you make a pass in Drive mode, but not Manual mode? The numbers for the Manual mode would be interesting to see...