General brake upgrade - options for 3d gen

Hi!

I think this is my first post, though I've been reading VFRD avidly since three years ago, congrats to everybody for this great forum!

Lemme introduce myself, I live in Southern Spain, and got a '93 third Gen a year ago. Since I got it I've been working on restoring it to the best condition I could, then to taylor it to my own needs and feelings; I enjoy getting my hands dirty in the process, and also a firm believer that (with exceptions) nobody will take the same care and tender for a ride as the own rider :) I also feel safer knowing my bike as thorough as possible.

Forgive me for reviving such an old issue, but this sparkled my interest, as I'm looking for an "easy", no fork-swaping-involved way --if possible-- of improving the (lacking) braking department on my 3d Gen w/o breaking the bank, as I already bought new springs for the front and a new rear shock.

In the thread for this same issue on the 4th gen, mello dude said:

If you decided you didnt want to do a total fork swap, you could keep what you already have but go with VTR fork lowers. Then the caliper choices are -- VTR, RC51, F4i, and 2001 or 02 six pot GSXR1000 calipers. You probably would need a different master cylinder. - Not the absolute optimum, but not bad either. I did it with RC51 gear on my 5th gen. (Gotta admit, I like the F4i fork swap option.)
MD

When you say "fork lowers" you mean the fork caliper mounts? the lower forks? Is that compatible with a 3d Gen? Apart from the need of a different master cilynder, will this work with stock 3d gen rotors/wheel??

Are the F4i (being 2 piston calipers too) that much better than the 3d gen? -EDIT- Sorry, found out they're 4 piston (two opposed by two?)

This is a very interesting route, specially cost-wise!

The vfr750 from 1990 to 1997 used 41mm forks as did the VTR1000 superhawk (firestorm)

Using the lower tubes from the VTR with the upper tubes from the VFR gives you the ability to mount the calipers mentioned above.

Or you could just swap on a whole set of VTR1000 forks but I'm not sure if the stanchion tubes (the upper chrome parts) are shorter than the Vfr parts?

In any case, you keep your Vfr triple clamps and handlebars.

I thInk the cbr 929/954 calipers will also fit the VTR fork legs

Hi - yeah the whole fork lower tubes - the part with the blue arrow. That way you have a direct caliper mount with no intermediate bracket. Its a stiffer system.
These are the VTR lowers on my 5th gen.......
[image: Posted Image]


Rob - from my foggy memory, I believe the VTR forks were about 10mm shorter than the stocker 5th gen, although someone should verifiy this. Its been awhile.

Hi - yeah the whole fork lower tubes - the part with the blue arrow. That way you have a direct caliper mount with no intermediate bracket. Its a stiffer system.
These are the VTR lowers on my 5th gen.......
[image: Posted Image]


Rob - from my foggy memory, I believe the VTR forks were about 10mm shorter than the stocker 5th gen, although someone should verifiy this. Its been awhile.

Yessss! you guys just made my day! :)

I was also thinking about which material would be suitable to machine adaptor parts, and that it could be a weak link. so VTR lowers!!!

So parts needed will be:

- VTR lowers. Any specific year(s)? I assume given the VFR stanchions are compatible with the seals, dust cap, bushings and internals from the 3d gen are compatible.
- Calipers and master cylinder from the bikes mentioned, also possibly from the 929/959. (already have a Jamie Daugherty modded/revalved 929 shock , waaay impressed with its perfomance!) so if anyone can please confirm this I will go for the 929, it looks there are plenty of used parts...

otherwise, any suggested, best bang for the buck or more available calipers in that bunch? Having an integrated master cylinder reservoir will be a plus to keep bike aesthetics, also to ease passing the state whicle inspection... from what I have read here you'd better keep masters with the calipers as designed to not change the ratio...


Yipeee!!! thanks a lot!!!

I believe all the firestorm/superhawk forks are the same for all years. They didn't change the bike much. Just measure the distance between the brake mounting holes and compare to the calipers discussed earlier.

I got some pretty gold ones for mine, they look great.

Here's a thread with all the info you will need:

http://m.superhawkfo...ead.php?t=13176

Honestly, you can bolt on a set of 600F Sport forks (CBR600F4i in the USA) for not much more money. This gets you full adjustability, and good brakes.

Everything mentioned above is true! (But always measure for yourself.) :biggrin:

The difficulty will be in finding an integrated master cylinder to match any of the larger calipers. The 11/16" master cylinder from the CBR600RR3-4 matches the calipers from the CBR954RR (2002-03 Fireblade)...I think! However, note that the 'Blade is a lighter bike than the 3rd-gen VFR, and the discs are larger as well, so you wouldn't get the same braking performance.

Ciao,

Everything mentioned above is true! (But always measure for yourself.) :biggrin:

The difficulty will be in finding an integrated master cylinder to match any of the larger calipers. The 11/16" master cylinder from the CBR600RR3-4 matches the calipers from the CBR954RR (2002-03 Fireblade)...I think! However, note that the 'Blade is a lighter bike than the 3rd-gen VFR, and the discs are larger as well, so you wouldn't get the same braking performance.

Ciao,

Thanks you all for the info!

JZH, you raised a good point here... Apart from the GSXR 1000, whose riding weight aproaches the 3d gen, the rest of the bikes are at least 25% lighter than the 3d gen. I don't expect same braking performance as those bikes, in fact I would be very happy with a 50% increase in stopping ability for my bike.

Isn't the F4i fork 43mm? That would mean triple tree changes, etc... I have to do some math to find out the best price, though a better fork would also prevent me from wanting to upgrade the fork in the future.

Welcome to the mad house!
AS you have seen there are many options on the 3rd gen.
A personal favorite front end on my 3rd gen was a Fireblade 98/99 45mm complete swap. Also now a lot cheaper to get ones hands on... Brakes are 4 pot also, either a 17 inch blackbird or VTR wheel fits with a 1 mm mod easy modification on the discs. Easy simple and clean.
Not as flash to look at as they are not upside down. But i confirm they performed better than my VFR 929/954 front end swap! The 929 carry discs which are too large, use yokes that give the wrong angles for optimum VFR riding.
Am currently considering selling on my 929/954 front end set up change back over to the earlier 98/99 Blade front as on the track i need the best performance avaliable.
Another handy points are it keeps the look of the VFR with the right way round forks, Its not so hard do blag my bike into a classic series of races here on the Isle of man track days. The cut off date is 1989, so a third gen just scrapes in if your 'techy' enough to convince the scrutineer.

Anyway, had to chip in as its a subject which i have a lot of experience!.. Read lots on here.. all the info is there!
Good luck, dont give up and remember to drop a few pics of your journey...
:biggrin:

Everything mentioned above is true! (But always measure for yourself.) :biggrin:

The difficulty will be in finding an integrated master cylinder to match any of the larger calipers. The 11/16" master cylinder from the CBR600RR3-4 matches the calipers from the CBR954RR (2002-03 Fireblade)...I think! However, note that the 'Blade is a lighter bike than the 3rd-gen VFR, and the discs are larger as well, so you wouldn't get the same braking performance.

Ciao,

Thanks you all for the info!

JZH, you raised a good point here... Apart from the GSXR 1000, whose riding weight aproaches the 3d gen, the rest of the bikes are at least 25% lighter than the 3d gen. I don't expect same braking performance as those bikes, in fact I would be very happy with a 50% increase in stopping ability for my bike.

Isn't the F4i fork 43mm? That would mean triple tree changes, etc... I have to do some math to find out the best price, though a better fork would also prevent me from wanting to upgrade the fork in the future.

Yeah - F4i is 43mm , so you need 6th gen triples and figure out what clip ons you want. 6th gen clip ons would work. -------- When I did my brake work, I came dame close to going the F4i route. Gee there was even a perfect set for sale on ebay at the time. But what held me back was I'm anal on ergos andI knew I wanted 4th gen ergos, and I was focused on that. 6th gen clip-ons feel like ape hangers to me, and thought the F4i clips would be a bit low. I didnt want to search the world for the perfect clip ons. (yeah - I'm a wackjob, I know it's a bit bassackwards thinking to worry about ergos over the boingers themselves.. :ohmy: )

I cant really complain on how the bike turned out. I dont track the bike and as a street setup its very good. (Maybe someday I'll go frankenviffer round 2 but I'm not in any hurry - for clips I would probly do something like Toro's bike)

JZH is right about the integrated master, unless you use later superhawk calipers, I believe in '05 Honda went to a 14mm integrated. That's probably a personal taste thing anyhoo... I wasnt conserned about an intergrated m/c since I went with the RC51 brakes and m/c. I have the matched system and built it up so it looks good and near oem anyhoo. The trick is to ditch Honda's tall resourvoir, and go with a Suz GSXR1000 part. (Check gallery for pics.)

Good luck and have fun!

Welcome to the mad house!
AS you have seen there are many options on the 3rd gen.
A personal favorite front end on my 3rd gen was a Fireblade 98/99 45mm complete swap. Also now a lot cheaper to get ones hands on... Brakes are 4 pot also, either a 17 inch blackbird or VTR wheel fits with a 1 mm mod easy modification on the discs. Easy simple and clean.

Hi B4D80Y! thanks fo dropping by! I guess 45mm would be stiffer, a nice thing for a heavy bike?

I checked that, and found you mentioned you just need to enlarge the (Fireblade) disc mounting holes by 1mm to mount them on a Blackbird/VTR wheel.

Sorry guys for asking so much, but english is not my native language, and I'm still getting familiar with all the terminology, to make things more difficult there are US and UK variants and sometimes I'm lost :) also what I find is mostly 4th gen mods, and I'm not sure if they are equally valid for the 3d gen and want to make sure...

Also assume the Fireblade forks are fully adjustable, a nice plus?

Not as flash to look at as they are not upside down. But i confirm they performed better than my VFR 929/954 front end swap! The 929 carry discs which are too large, use yokes that give the wrong angles for optimum VFR riding.

Do you mean they don't change the rake? So I can just drop in Fireblade's yokes (triple trees, isn't it?) Will also the Fireblade clipons work w/o interference with the VFR fairings?

Am currently considering selling on my 929/954 front end set up change back over to the earlier 98/99 Blade front as on the track i need the best performance avaliable.
Another handy points are it keeps the look of the VFR with the right way round forks, Its not so hard do blag my bike into a classic series of races here on the Isle of man track days. The cut off date is 1989, so a third gen just scrapes in if your 'techy' enough to convince the scrutineer.

Anyway, had to chip in as its a subject which i have a lot of experience!.. Read lots on here.. all the info is there!
Good luck, dont give up and remember to drop a few pics of your journey...
:biggrin:

Sure I'll do!

Yeah - F4i is 43mm , so you need 6th gen triples and figure out what clip ons you want. 6th gen clip ons would work. -------- When I did my brake work, I came dame close to going the F4i route. Gee there was even a perfect set for sale on ebay at the time. But what held me back was I'm anal on ergos andI knew I wanted 4th gen ergos, and I was focused on that. 6th gen clip-ons feel like ape hangers to me, and thought the F4i clips would be a bit low. I didnt want to search the world for the perfect clip ons. (yeah - I'm a wackjob, I know it's a bit bassackwards thinking to worry about ergos over the boingers themselves.. :ohmy: )

I cant really complain on how the bike turned out. I dont track the bike and as a street setup its very good. (Maybe someday I'll go frankenviffer round 2 but I'm not in any hurry - for clips I would probly do something like Toro's bike)

JZH is right about the integrated master, unless you use later superhawk calipers, I believe in '05 Honda went to a 14mm integrated. That's probably a personal taste thing anyhoo... I wasnt conserned about an intergrated m/c since I went with the RC51 brakes and m/c. I have the matched system and built it up so it looks good and near oem anyhoo. The trick is to ditch Honda's tall resourvoir, and go with a Suz GSXR1000 part. (Check gallery for pics.)

Good luck and have fun!

thanks again! checked your gallery, niiiiiice bike!! You mean using the honda master with GSXR1000 reservoir? guess it being smaller? I see you built a custom bracket, did you find clearance problems with the cockpit when you fitted it?

Yeah - F4i is 43mm , so you need 6th gen triples and figure out what clip ons you want. 6th gen clip ons would work. -------- When I did my brake work, I came dame close to going the F4i route. Gee there was even a perfect set for sale on ebay at the time. But what held me back was I'm anal on ergos andI knew I wanted 4th gen ergos, and I was focused on that. 6th gen clip-ons feel like ape hangers to me, and thought the F4i clips would be a bit low. I didnt want to search the world for the perfect clip ons. (yeah - I'm a wackjob, I know it's a bit bassackwards thinking to worry about ergos over the boingers themselves.. :ohmy: )

I cant really complain on how the bike turned out. I dont track the bike and as a street setup its very good. (Maybe someday I'll go frankenviffer round 2 but I'm not in any hurry - for clips I would probly do something like Toro's bike)

JZH is right about the integrated master, unless you use later superhawk calipers, I believe in '05 Honda went to a 14mm integrated. That's probably a personal taste thing anyhoo... I wasnt conserned about an intergrated m/c since I went with the RC51 brakes and m/c. I have the matched system and built it up so it looks good and near oem anyhoo. The trick is to ditch Honda's tall resourvoir, and go with a Suz GSXR1000 part. (Check gallery for pics.)

Good luck and have fun!

thanks again! checked your gallery, niiiiiice bike!! You mean using the honda master with GSXR1000 reservoir? guess it being smaller? I see you built a custom bracket, did you find clearance problems with the cockpit when you fitted it?

Yeah- Honda RC51 master cylinder with a gixxer reservoir. Its actually the same size as the RC51, but just mounts different so it can be lower on the bars on the bike. A lot of reservoirs on bikes are mounted tall in cockpits that they seem to be saying "look at me" and I wanted to avoid that. So with a custom bracket and painted flat black to avoid that urine cup look, it's low and out of the major field of view and looks good. Oh yeah even with the stocker RC reservoir theres no clearance problems. - I couldnt say for a 3rd gen though.....

F4i master cylinder is integrated. Same geometry if used with 02-09 triple clamps. Woodcraft sells clip ons at a reasonable price that can be adjusted from 0-3" of rise by specifying height at time of purchase, and/or buying different height parts to change height.

F4i weighed similar to 4th gen, not much lighter. Excellent brakes, and forks as a package are lighter than the older 45mm blade units.