Well, check out the stator first. Like I posted a couple months ago, I had two stators go on two bikes on the same weekend. Both had MOTY's, so I was suspicious. But the batteries were (and still are) fine.
I have installed a Shorai battery mainly for the weight saving, but am taking precautions to monitor because I don't want a failure in the middle of nowhere & knowing Honda do tend to have R/R problems. The main issue with these batteries is there failure if you let the capacity drop under a certain voltage which damages the battery so I made sure I fitted a voltmeter to bike for constant monitoring which from here are relatively cheep http://stores.intuit...eter/Detail.bok
There is also the problem if you don't ride your bike often the VFR tends to drain the battery & is a bigger issue for those that have HISS but the clock even if the power it uses is minimal will drain the battery. So if bike not ridden say once a week it is smart to disconnect battery so there is zero drain while stored. I haven't finished my vtec frankenviffer rebuild so can't offer up any long term test but will report any problems that may occur once bike finished.
[image: View Post]Switchblade, on 28 August 2011 - 08:05 PM, said:
PUT THE OLD BATTERY BACK IN. IT HAD SAT ON A SHELF FOR TWO MONTHS THE BIKE STARTED RIGHT UP.
You still need to go back and debug to determine whether its a battery problem or a charging system problem. All you know for the moment is you have a discharged battery.
Go ahead and do the voltage checks at idle and 5000 rpm for an R/R check and you might as well do the basic stator checks as well.
Test that sealed the diagnosis for me was continuity to ground from the plug. Unplug from the R/R and test for continuity to ground on the frame, or even on the stator cover. Should be none. Any continuity at all and your stator is done. Mine had some charging ability, one was just barely over 12v, but both clearly failed this test.
Both my MOTY's recharged with a standard float charger and held charge unplugged on the bench for several weeks. I know you're not supposed to use that type of charger, but it's all I had and it seemed to work fine.
Charge up the Shorai and see if it holds charge, and test the stator.
With your background in electronics I am sure you are qualified to give a proper diagnosis but if you want some help run it by my house and I will give your bikes electrical ssytem the full check up....I know I'm qualified;).
Pretty sure your battery problem is more G-force related more than anything else. As for the caps...if all I did was ride the dragon all weekend every weekend I guess I would be shouting too.
The girl and I had another epic ride after seeing you at the Gap Saturday morning. Did another 300 mile day through Franklin area and back through the Dragon on the way home. We picked up a German sportbike rider who had been vacationing all week in Fonatana. When he finally caught up to us at the Gap he just kept looking at Donna's Versys and shaking his head. He could not believe he couldn't keep up with my VFR or her Versys on his R6. I was hoping you were still around so you could give him a nice lead through the dragon but you had already left. So we lead him and another sportike out, dodging cops, Harleys and cages all the way. Was still a great ride as usual. What a perfect day it was.
See you next Saturday or PM me if you want to do some electrical diagnostics.
[image: View Post]mello dude, on 28 August 2011 - 08:10 PM, said:
[image: View Post]Switchblade, on 28 August 2011 - 08:05 PM, said:
PUT THE OLD BATTERY BACK IN. IT HAD SAT ON A SHELF FOR TWO MONTHS THE BIKE STARTED RIGHT UP.
You still need to go back and debug to determine whether its a battery problem or a charging system problem. All you know for the moment is you have a discharged battery.
Go ahead and do the voltage checks at idle and 5000 rpm for an R/R check and you might as well do the basic stator checks as well.
[image: View Post]kebrider, on 29 August 2011 - 08:12 AM, said:
Switchblade
With your background in electronics I am sure you are qualified to give a proper diagnosis but if you want some help run it by my house and I will give your bikes electrical ssytem the full check up....I know I'm qualified;).
Pretty sure your battery problem is more G-force related more than anything else. As for the caps...if all I did was ride the dragon all weekend every weekend I guess I would be shouting too.
The girl and I had another epic ride after seeing you at the Gap Saturday morning. Did another 300 mile day through Franklin area and back through the Dragon on the way home. We picked up a German sportbike rider who had been vacationing all week in Fonatana. When he finally caught up to us at the Gap he just kept looking at Donna's Versys and shaking his head. He could not believe he couldn't keep up with my VFR or her Versys on his R6. I was hoping you were still around so you could give him a nice lead through the dragon but you had already left. So we lead him and another sportike out, dodging cops, Harleys and cages all the way. Was still a great ride as usual. What a perfect day it was.
See you next Saturday or PM me if you want to do some electrical diagnostics.
Kimball
PS...change that tire!
Yeah the German dudes were back on Sunday also. Put a new set Pure Powers on and was really haulling ass all day Sunday. It was a day of days !!!!!!!!!
[image: View Post]KPerham, on 29 August 2011 - 06:14 AM, said:
Test that sealed the diagnosis for me was continuity to ground from the plug. Unplug from the R/R and test for continuity to ground on the frame, or even on the stator cover. Should be none. Any continuity at all and your stator is done. Mine had some charging ability, one was just barely over 12v, but both clearly failed this test.
Both my MOTY's recharged with a standard float charger and held charge unplugged on the bench for several weeks. I know you're not supposed to use that type of charger, but it's all I had and it seemed to work fine.
Charge up the Shorai and see if it holds charge, and test the stator.
I left my GPS on and drained my MOTY. Trickle charged it and it's been fine ever since. I also know you're not supposed to use the trickle chargers, but what are you supposed to use?
[image: View Post]Switchblade, on 29 August 2011 - 08:46 AM, said:
[image: View Post]kebrider, on 29 August 2011 - 08:12 AM, said:
Switchblade
With your background in electronics I am sure you are qualified to give a proper diagnosis but if you want some help run it by my house and I will give your bikes electrical ssytem the full check up....I know I'm qualified;).
Pretty sure your battery problem is more G-force related more than anything else. As for the caps...if all I did was ride the dragon all weekend every weekend I guess I would be shouting too.
The girl and I had another epic ride after seeing you at the Gap Saturday morning. Did another 300 mile day through Franklin area and back through the Dragon on the way home. We picked up a German sportbike rider who had been vacationing all week in Fonatana. When he finally caught up to us at the Gap he just kept looking at Donna's Versys and shaking his head. He could not believe he couldn't keep up with my VFR or her Versys on his R6. I was hoping you were still around so you could give him a nice lead through the dragon but you had already left. So we lead him and another sportike out, dodging cops, Harleys and cages all the way. Was still a great ride as usual. What a perfect day it was.
See you next Saturday or PM me if you want to do some electrical diagnostics.
Kimball
PS...change that tire!
Yeah the German dudes were back on Sunday also. Put a new set Pure Powers on and was really haulling ass all day Sunday. It was a day of days !!!!!!!!!
Almost did a dragon run yesterday with the TMAX as the girl and I were out exploring roads. With the backrest on the scoot she uses the GPS while I drive. I need to pull the centerstand off before I do a gap run though as it touches down way to early. Can't pass with the same quickness as the VFR or Versys but that scoot pulls pretty good.
The power pures get some pretty diverse reviews. I will have to tuck in behind you and see if I can hang with the 023's and lowered pegs...not likely but good times tryin tho
[image: View Post]kebrider, on 29 August 2011 - 08:12 AM, said:
Switchblade
With your background in electronics I am sure you are qualified to give a proper diagnosis but if you want some help run it by my house and I will give your bikes electrical ssytem the full check up....I know I'm qualified;).
Pretty sure your battery problem is more G-force related more than anything else. As for the caps...if all I did was ride the dragon all weekend every weekend I guess I would be shouting too.
The girl and I had another epic ride after seeing you at the Gap Saturday morning. Did another 300 mile day through Franklin area and back through the Dragon on the way home. We picked up a German sportbike rider who had been vacationing all week in Fonatana. When he finally caught up to us at the Gap he just kept looking at Donna's Versys and shaking his head. He could not believe he couldn't keep up with my VFR or her Versys on his R6. I was hoping you were still around so you could give him a nice lead through the dragon but you had already left. So we lead him and another sportike out, dodging cops, Harleys and cages all the way. Was still a great ride as usual. What a perfect day it was.
See you next Saturday or PM me if you want to do some electrical diagnostics.
Kimball
PS...change that tire!
I encourage you to pen an instructional paper on how "dodging cops" on the Dragon is done. I could use that info.
[image: View Post]sarge, on 29 August 2011 - 06:00 PM, said:
I encourage you to pen an instructional paper on how "dodging cops" on the Dragon is done. I could use that info.
Get there at 7:30 a.m. and make all your how I should say it "YOUR NON RADAR PASSES "early and then just sit around DEALS GAP and listen and talk a lot. Then wait for the first reports of the police which is around 10:00 a.m. At this time you start doing the turn around passes ( that's what I call them) You take a stretch of road that you know is clear of the police turn around headback the way you came because you know its clear.
[image: View Post]KPerham, on 29 August 2011 - 06:14 AM, said:
Test that sealed the diagnosis for me was continuity to ground from the plug. Unplug from the R/R and test for continuity to ground on the frame, or even on the stator cover. Should be none. Any continuity at all and your stator is done. Mine had some charging ability, one was just barely over 12v, but both clearly failed this test.
Both my MOTY's recharged with a standard float charger and held charge unplugged on the bench for several weeks. I know you're not supposed to use that type of charger, but it's all I had and it seemed to work fine.
Charge up the Shorai and see if it holds charge, and test the stator.
[image: View Post]kebrider, on 29 August 2011 - 10:27 AM, said:
[image: View Post]Switchblade, on 29 August 2011 - 08:46 AM, said:
[image: View Post]kebrider, on 29 August 2011 - 08:12 AM, said:
Switchblade
With your background in electronics I am sure you are qualified to give a proper diagnosis but if you want some help run it by my house and I will give your bikes electrical ssytem the full check up....I know I'm qualified;).
Pretty sure your battery problem is more G-force related more than anything else. As for the caps...if all I did was ride the dragon all weekend every weekend I guess I would be shouting too.
The girl and I had another epic ride after seeing you at the Gap Saturday morning. Did another 300 mile day through Franklin area and back through the Dragon on the way home. We picked up a German sportbike rider who had been vacationing all week in Fonatana. When he finally caught up to us at the Gap he just kept looking at Donna's Versys and shaking his head. He could not believe he couldn't keep up with my VFR or her Versys on his R6. I was hoping you were still around so you could give him a nice lead through the dragon but you had already left. So we lead him and another sportike out, dodging cops, Harleys and cages all the way. Was still a great ride as usual. What a perfect day it was.
See you next Saturday or PM me if you want to do some electrical diagnostics.
Kimball
PS...change that tire!
Yeah the German dudes were back on Sunday also. Put a new set Pure Powers on and was really haulling ass all day Sunday. It was a day of days !!!!!!!!!
Almost did a dragon run yesterday with the TMAX as the girl and I were out exploring roads. With the backrest on the scoot she uses the GPS while I drive. I need to pull the centerstand off before I do a gap run though as it touches down way to early. Can't pass with the same quickness as the VFR or Versys but that scoot pulls pretty good.
The power pures get some pretty diverse reviews. I will have to tuck in behind you and see if I can hang with the 023's and lowered pegs...not likely but good times tryin tho
Sounds good. Tried to find your email address. Heres a pipe for your T-Max !!!!!!!!!!!!!
They all tend to look like that at some point.
Even off the bike you can test for continuity between the plug and the cover. Should be zero for a good stator. Any continuity at all is no good.
[image: View Post]KPerham, on 31 August 2011 - 05:32 AM, said:
They all tend to look like that at some point.
Even off the bike you can test for continuity between the plug and the cover. Should be zero for a good stator. Any continuity at all is no good.
Installed new VFRness harness and stator, R/R. Output to battery is 14.5Vdc when needed. Hey Tightwad I have a question for you on the 4 port acces. port HOW DO YOU CONNECT TWO FEMALE CONNECTORS ? I mean I know how to fix it but you need to look at the purple wires that connect the aux. bus to power, there both female connectors. :ohmy:
[image: View Post]Knife, on 29 August 2011 - 10:09 AM, said:
I left my GPS on and drained my MOTY. Trickle charged it and it's been fine ever since. I also know you're not supposed to use the trickle chargers, but what are you supposed to use?
I know for LiPos, if they fall well below the lower voltage limit per cell, a trick that works is using nicad charging methods. Normally, Lipos are fed constant current to charge. Nicads slowly increase the voltage fed to the pack. But this is really only relevant if the pack falls below 2V per cell, and not sure if it applies to A123 cells.
Hey SB, keep an eye on it this fall. My MOTY had some real trouble in the cooler mornings this past weekend in Franklin. Mid 50's, maybe? Sounded like it was going to die trying to start the RC51 the first try. Gave it a few moments and tried again and it fired up. Zero issues for the remainder of the day. Second morning it was the same thing, but it took three attempts. Both mornings the display reset (no clock, just a trip meter on the 51).
Not sure what to make of it. Maybe the cells need to "warm up"? When it does finally start, it sounds pretty strong.
I have concerns about the MOTY batteries in cooler weather...the cranking amps is lower than I would like. of course if you bike lives in a warm garage and fires up first stroke then you are fine!
My battery has been ok as well, other than a slow drain from not riding for a few months...oops.
[image: View Post]Switchblade, on 22 September 2011 - 12:53 PM, said:
[image: View Post]rangerscott69, on 22 September 2011 - 12:35 PM, said:
Wrap the moty with some foam insulation like some car batteries come stock with.
What about in the summer time, these things run VERY HOT !!!!!
I haven't noticed mine running hot (not a MOTY, so it might be different). I am also running one in a Seadoo with good results (I needed a battery, I had this one....)
I hadnt noticed the MOTY running hot. I have even popped the seat off and checked it while running and it felt, "normal". Just warm. I have mine packed in the battery box with some foam from a knee pad. So far, its fine.
VFR800's and RC51's direct heat from the rear facing cylinder(s) under the seat and back into the tail. I can't believe it's the MOTY itself, but in fact the environment inside the rear plastic. I've got both these bikes, and I could make tea with the water bottles I've, from time to time, kept back there on long rides.
VFR with a new Ricks stator and MOTY is running fine. I did need to replace my RC stator, but it's holding up fine with the MOTY in it. Probably got more miles on the replacement stator/MOTY combo than the original with the MOTY.
Only fault so far is weak starting power on a chilly morning with the RC51. But it did start unassisted.
I'm no advocate for or against MOTY at this point, but I do want to be sure to present the FACTS and try to avoid conjecture.
[image: View Post]KPerham, on 22 September 2011 - 03:51 PM, said:
VFR800's and RC51's direct heat from the rear facing cylinder(s) under the seat and back into the tail. I can't believe it's the MOTY itself, but in fact the environment inside the rear plastic. I've got both these bikes, and I could make tea with the water bottles I've, from time to time, kept back there on long rides.
.
Exactly - the rear cylinder and header cooks the under seat environment. That doent help any of the electrical issues. I think it more of a matter of figuring out a good heat shielding scheme, with kevlar products and other stuff thats on the market. Themotec comes to mind.
For a data point, I havent had any issues thus far. I have to try a colder weather start to see how it goes.
It mite of been a combination of both engine heat and battery heat. But member I do a lot of full throllte, then no throttle, then full throttle riding .
Not a bad buy !!!!!!!!!!
Be aware that this voltmeter combo thermometer might not be waterproof/resistant, so if you do a lot of wet riding, you might make sure to check it out first before buying.
[image: View Post]Knife, on 29 August 2011 - 10:09 AM, said:
[image: View Post]KPerham, on 29 August 2011 - 06:14 AM, said:
Test that sealed the diagnosis for me was continuity to ground from the plug. Unplug from the R/R and test for continuity to ground on the frame, or even on the stator cover. Should be none. Any continuity at all and your stator is done. Mine had some charging ability, one was just barely over 12v, but both clearly failed this test.
Both my MOTY's recharged with a standard float charger and held charge unplugged on the bench for several weeks. I know you're not supposed to use that type of charger, but it's all I had and it seemed to work fine.
Charge up the Shorai and see if it holds charge, and test the stator.
I left my GPS on and drained my MOTY. Trickle charged it and it's been fine ever since. I also know you're not supposed to use the trickle chargers, but what are you supposed to use?
Trickle chargers are old school , dont have the dynamic ability to force feed at a higher rate and back off and float. Too much exposure to a trickle charger can destroy a battery. Use the Battery Tenders,
Given that our bikes have everything except the voltmeter it seems very redundant. I am fairly certain I can tell when there might be ice...check the gauge! Of course it is a fair price for a volt meter (if waterproof) but I still prefer my Datel meter.
[image: View Post]Tightwad, on 23 September 2011 - 09:05 AM, said:
Given that our bikes have everything except the voltmeter it seems very redundant. I am fairly certain I can tell when there might be ice...check the gauge! Of course it is a fair price for a volt meter (if waterproof) but I still prefer my Datel meter.
I've seen this or very similar product sold in some car accessory catalogues, so there's a possiblity that's it's being sold to anyone that will buy it, not neccesarily taking to account what kind of vehicle and where it's mounted on. I betcha they will only say it's "water resistant" at best.....plus the very cheap price sure does not sound like it's specially designed for harsh outdoor conditions.
JMO.
Sounds like engine heat might be also killing the Shoria batteries then....You can use insulation around or in the battery box. but be sure to properly trim any aluminized facings on the insualtion you might use if it has it, as it could stray next to the battery terminals and cause a major short
[image: View Post]spud786, on 23 September 2011 - 03:19 AM, said:
[image: View Post]Knife, on 29 August 2011 - 10:09 AM, said:
[image: View Post]KPerham, on 29 August 2011 - 06:14 AM, said:
Test that sealed the diagnosis for me was continuity to ground from the plug. Unplug from the R/R and test for continuity to ground on the frame, or even on the stator cover. Should be none. Any continuity at all and your stator is done. Mine had some charging ability, one was just barely over 12v, but both clearly failed this test.
Both my MOTY's recharged with a standard float charger and held charge unplugged on the bench for several weeks. I know you're not supposed to use that type of charger, but it's all I had and it seemed to work fine.
Charge up the Shorai and see if it holds charge, and test the stator.
I left my GPS on and drained my MOTY. Trickle charged it and it's been fine ever since. I also know you're not supposed to use the trickle chargers, but what are you supposed to use?
Trickle chargers are old school , dont have the dynamic ability to force feed at a higher rate and back off and float. Too much exposure to a trickle charger can destroy a battery. Use the Battery Tenders,
I meant a Battery Tender (I thought they were trickle chargers). So it's OK to use a Battery Tender on a MOTY?
[image: View Post]Knife, on 23 September 2011 - 12:50 PM, said:
[image: View Post]spud786, on 23 September 2011 - 03:19 AM, said:
[image: View Post]Knife, on 29 August 2011 - 10:09 AM, said:
[image: View Post]KPerham, on 29 August 2011 - 06:14 AM, said:
Test that sealed the diagnosis for me was continuity to ground from the plug. Unplug from the R/R and test for continuity to ground on the frame, or even on the stator cover. Should be none. Any continuity at all and your stator is done. Mine had some charging ability, one was just barely over 12v, but both clearly failed this test.
Both my MOTY's recharged with a standard float charger and held charge unplugged on the bench for several weeks. I know you're not supposed to use that type of charger, but it's all I had and it seemed to work fine.
Charge up the Shorai and see if it holds charge, and test the stator.
I left my GPS on and drained my MOTY. Trickle charged it and it's been fine ever since. I also know you're not supposed to use the trickle chargers, but what are you supposed to use?
Trickle chargers are old school , dont have the dynamic ability to force feed at a higher rate and back off and float. Too much exposure to a trickle charger can destroy a battery. Use the Battery Tenders,
I meant a Battery Tender (I thought they were trickle chargers). So it's OK to use a Battery Tender on a MOTY?
This subject returns often, all can say is that the stators & R/R on these bikes are not trickle charging system.
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