Raised rear already. Lower front?

Just installed a cbr929 rear shock with a custom bracket and a couple shims on my 98 vfr.  Total increase at the shock is ~3.3mm.

Before this modification the front forks were pulled up to 44.5mm above the top triple (Stock is 39mm).  Currently they are set at 40mm above the top triple.

Sag has been set, about 30mm front, 32mm rear.  I have adjustment to go stiffer if need be.  Springs are .90 up front, stock in rear (cbr929 white spring -- should be the same as vfr stock).  Rebound and compression have not really been played with, but they are set to the recommendations from the sport rider table for an '00 cbr929rr  (1.5 out on rebound, 1 out on compression).  Coincidentally my optimal rider sag is in the same position as used by sport rider (position 6 of 9).  

My issue is that the steering effort is slightly higher and turn in is slower than previous, with just the lowered stock front and stock rear.

Can I lower the front a bit even with the raised rear suspension?  Any guidelines on what is recommended?

Other info:
Rider weight 150-155
Tires:  PP front (36 psi); PR2 rear (42 psi)\

Thanks gang!

 MadScientist, on 30 August 2011 - 12:25 PM, said:

Just installed a cbr929 rear shock with a custom bracket and a couple shims on my 98 vfr.  Total increase at the shock is ~3.3mm.

Before this modification the front forks were pulled up to 44.5mm above the top triple (Stock is 39mm).  Currently they are set at 40mm above the top triple.

Sag has been set, about 30mm front, 32mm rear.  I have adjustment to go stiffer if need be.  Springs are .90 up front, stock in rear (cbr929 white spring -- should be the same as vfr stock).  Rebound and compression have not really been played with, but they are set to the recommendations from the sport rider table for an '00 cbr929rr  (1.5 out on rebound, 1 out on compression).  Coincidentally my optimal rider sag is in the same position as used by sport rider (position 6 of 9).  

My issue is that the steering effort is slightly higher and turn in is slower than previous, with just the lowered stock front and stock rear.

Can I lower the front a bit even with the raised rear suspension?  Any guidelines on what is recommended?

Other info:
Rider weight 150-155
Tires:  PP front (36 psi); PR2 rear (42 psi)\

Thanks gang!

Yes you can drop the front end more! Easily to 49mm, but I would slap in another shim or two on the rear making it a min. of 5mm and up to 8mm before messing with the front. Unless you have short legs and would like the bike closer to the ground, then drop the front.
Also ideally you will/should have more sag on the front vs rear, I suggest 35 front/30 rear. This alone will help put more weight on the nose of the bike and allow the rake to be tilted more to the front which will help turn-in.
Also check Free Sag when you change the Rider sag numbers.
Also adding some Comp damping to the rear shock or less rebound damping will help transfer weight to the front causing more compression of the fork which quickens Turn-in.
It's hard to put too much Rake in a VFR enough to make it unstable, just play with it and test ride. :fing02:
ps  if you have some .85 fork spring laying around you might try those at your weight with running a stock rear spring.

BR

BR is right. Raise the rear more before lowering the front as you get TWO bennies: quicker steering and more ground clearance. Lowering the front will lead to reduced ground clearance.

Watch your lower shock eye with the bike on the centerstand. If you shim the upper mount too much, it will contact the dogbone. Also check the forward chainguard mount to see it does not contact your footpeg bracket while in the centerstand (full droop).

You will need to run a little more slack than the manual recommends to compensate for the greater swingarm downangle.

 Baileyrock, on 30 August 2011 - 04:24 PM, said:

 MadScientist, on 30 August 2011 - 12:25 PM, said:

Rebound and compression have not really been played with, but they are set to the recommendations from the sport rider table for an '00 cbr929rr  (1.5 out on rebound, 1 out on compression).

My issue is that the steering effort is slightly higher and turn in is slower than previous, with just the lowered stock front and stock rear.

Thanks gang!
Also adding some Comp damping to the rear shock or less rebound damping will help transfer weight to the front causing more compression of the fork which quickens Turn-in.
BR

I'd start with adjusting the compression and rebound and see how it feels at different settings, then go adjust the front/rear more.

With the stock mount (on a modded 929 shock) I only got 5mm of shim before I ran out of threads. So that's where I'm at. Tire barely clears the ground on the center stand. In fact a new tire rubs a little. Front is RC51, so even if I had measurements on hand they wouldn't mean much. But if you go to 5mm on top of the rear and drop the front to the point of having the rear tire skimming the ground while on the center, that's a good start. I like mine!
On a related note, has anyone tried a 120/65 or 120/60 front tire to effectively lower the front (as opposed to the stock 120/70)?
Similarly, I think I've seen some brands offering a 180/60, or taller, rear. Is that real, or did I hallucinate that? Lol! Could be another option?

 KPerham, on 31 August 2011 - 05:43 AM, said:

With the stock mount (on a modded 929 shock) I only got 5mm of shim before I ran out of threads. So that's where I'm at. Tire barely clears the ground on the center stand. In fact a new tire rubs a little. Front is RC51, so even if I had measurements on hand they wouldn't mean much. But if you go to 5mm on top of the rear and drop the front to the point of having the rear tire skimming the ground while on the center, that's a good start. I like mine!
On a related note, has anyone tried a 120/65 or 120/60 front tire to effectively lower the front (as opposed to the stock 120/70)?
Similarly, I think I've seen some brands offering a 180/60, or taller, rear. Is that real, or did I hallucinate that? Lol! Could be another option?

I was kinda in the same boat with the rear.  Any more shims and thread engagement on the rear upper mount would have been less than desirable.  My fault for cutting the new bolt where I did.  Regardless, I'm not sure I wanted anymore ride height from a comfort standpoint.  

Anyway, dropped the front back to my original 44.5mm and re-set the sag.  Now sag is set to 33 front 30 rear.  

Problem solved, handling is back where I want it.  I am sure there is some tweaking to be done with compression and rebound damping in the back, but I'll get to that soon.

Ride is much more comfortable and confidence inspiring than stock.  Can't say how much is attributed to the 929 shock, since I swapped fork oil and changed springs at the same time.

Thanks for the help gang.

:fing02:   Congrats!

 Baileyrock, on 30 August 2011 - 04:24 PM, said:

 MadScientist, on 30 August 2011 - 12:25 PM, said:

Just installed a cbr929 rear shock with a custom bracket and a couple shims on my 98 vfr.  Total increase at the shock is ~3.3mm.

Before this modification the front forks were pulled up to 44.5mm above the top triple (Stock is 39mm).  Currently they are set at 40mm above the top triple.

Sag has been set, about 30mm front, 32mm rear.  I have adjustment to go stiffer if need be.  Springs are .90 up front, stock in rear (cbr929 white spring -- should be the same as vfr stock).  Rebound and compression have not really been played with, but they are set to the recommendations from the sport rider table for an '00 cbr929rr  (1.5 out on rebound, 1 out on compression).  Coincidentally my optimal rider sag is in the same position as used by sport rider (position 6 of 9).  

My issue is that the steering effort is slightly higher and turn in is slower than previous, with just the lowered stock front and stock rear.

Can I lower the front a bit even with the raised rear suspension?  Any guidelines on what is recommended?

Other info:
Rider weight 150-155
Tires:  PP front (36 psi); PR2 rear (42 psi)\

Thanks gang!

Yes you can drop the front end more! Easily to 49mm, but I would slap in another shim or two on the rear making it a min. of 5mm and up to 8mm before messing with the front. Unless you have short legs and would like the bike closer to the ground, then drop the front.
Also ideally you will/should have more sag on the front vs rear, I suggest 35 front/30 rear. This alone will help put more weight on the nose of the bike and allow the rake to be tilted more to the front which will help turn-in.
Also check Free Sag when you change the Rider sag numbers.
Also adding some Comp damping to the rear shock or less rebound damping will help transfer weight to the front causing more compression of the fork which quickens Turn-in.
It's hard to put too much Rake in a VFR enough to make it unstable, just play with it and test ride. :fing02:
ps  if you have some .85 fork spring laying around you might try those at your weight with running a stock rear spring.

BR
On this subject, does anyone know what the maximum drop on the forks is without limiting suspension travel ? I seem to remember calculating it to be about 65 mm, but I don't remember for sure. I am running a 50 mm drop right now without issue.

-VFRGeek

You lowered the front end 50 millimeters from the stock setting?????

That would be an enormous change I'm thinking. Most guys go 10-20mm

Or are you saying you had ~39mm of tube sticking out of the top triple and now you have 50?

In which case it would be correct to say you lowered the front by 16mm, not 50!

I do notice that allot of people setup the stock VFR fork sag around 30mm so either you have no preload adjustment left (to high a spring rate) to back off for more sag or your wanting to artificially raise the front. The VFR fork by design has a built in static sag of around 15mm so dynamic sag should be set to 35-40mm the higher measurement for road riding. If the op set his dynamic sag at 35mm minimum the front would already be 5mm lower & improve the turn in. I run 40mm dynamic sag on all my bikes & don't change it for road or track & that is with standard forks to Ohlins forks.

 VFRGeek, on 20 October 2011 - 11:19 PM, said:

 Baileyrock, on 30 August 2011 - 04:24 PM, said:

 MadScientist, on 30 August 2011 - 12:25 PM, said:

Just installed a cbr929 rear shock with a custom bracket and a couple shims on my 98 vfr.  Total increase at the shock is ~3.3mm.

Before this modification the front forks were pulled up to 44.5mm above the top triple (Stock is 39mm).  Currently they are set at 40mm above the top triple.

Sag has been set, about 30mm front, 32mm rear.  I have adjustment to go stiffer if need be.  Springs are .90 up front, stock in rear (cbr929 white spring -- should be the same as vfr stock).  Rebound and compression have not really been played with, but they are set to the recommendations from the sport rider table for an '00 cbr929rr  (1.5 out on rebound, 1 out on compression).  Coincidentally my optimal rider sag is in the same position as used by sport rider (position 6 of 9).  

My issue is that the steering effort is slightly higher and turn in is slower than previous, with just the lowered stock front and stock rear.

Can I lower the front a bit even with the raised rear suspension?  Any guidelines on what is recommended?

Other info:
Rider weight 150-155
Tires:  PP front (36 psi); PR2 rear (42 psi)\

Thanks gang!

Yes you can drop the front end more! Easily to 49mm, but I would slap in another shim or two on the rear making it a min. of 5mm and up to 8mm before messing with the front. Unless you have short legs and would like the bike closer to the ground, then drop the front.
Also ideally you will/should have more sag on the front vs rear, I suggest 35 front/30 rear. This alone will help put more weight on the nose of the bike and allow the rake to be tilted more to the front which will help turn-in.
Also check Free Sag when you change the Rider sag numbers.
Also adding some Comp damping to the rear shock or less rebound damping will help transfer weight to the front causing more compression of the fork which quickens Turn-in.
It's hard to put too much Rake in a VFR enough to make it unstable, just play with it and test ride. :fing02:
ps  if you have some .85 fork spring laying around you might try those at your weight with running a stock rear spring.

BR
On this subject, does anyone know what the maximum drop on the forks is without limiting suspension travel ? I seem to remember calculating it to be about 65 mm, but I don't remember for sure. I am running a 50 mm drop right now without issue.

-VFRGeek
Is that 50mm lower than stock you mean? That sounds like a lot! 65mm could be way too much.....

Beck
95 VFR

 Beck, on 21 October 2011 - 02:46 AM, said:

 VFRGeek, on 20 October 2011 - 11:19 PM, said:

 Baileyrock, on 30 August 2011 - 04:24 PM, said:

 MadScientist, on 30 August 2011 - 12:25 PM, said:

Just installed a cbr929 rear shock with a custom bracket and a couple shims on my 98 vfr.  Total increase at the shock is ~3.3mm.

Before this modification the front forks were pulled up to 44.5mm above the top triple (Stock is 39mm).  Currently they are set at 40mm above the top triple.

Sag has been set, about 30mm front, 32mm rear.  I have adjustment to go stiffer if need be.  Springs are .90 up front, stock in rear (cbr929 white spring -- should be the same as vfr stock).  Rebound and compression have not really been played with, but they are set to the recommendations from the sport rider table for an '00 cbr929rr  (1.5 out on rebound, 1 out on compression).  Coincidentally my optimal rider sag is in the same position as used by sport rider (position 6 of 9).  

My issue is that the steering effort is slightly higher and turn in is slower than previous, with just the lowered stock front and stock rear.

Can I lower the front a bit even with the raised rear suspension?  Any guidelines on what is recommended?

Other info:
Rider weight 150-155
Tires:  PP front (36 psi); PR2 rear (42 psi)\

Thanks gang!

Yes you can drop the front end more! Easily to 49mm, but I would slap in another shim or two on the rear making it a min. of 5mm and up to 8mm before messing with the front. Unless you have short legs and would like the bike closer to the ground, then drop the front.
Also ideally you will/should have more sag on the front vs rear, I suggest 35 front/30 rear. This alone will help put more weight on the nose of the bike and allow the rake to be tilted more to the front which will help turn-in.
Also check Free Sag when you change the Rider sag numbers.
Also adding some Comp damping to the rear shock or less rebound damping will help transfer weight to the front causing more compression of the fork which quickens Turn-in.
It's hard to put too much Rake in a VFR enough to make it unstable, just play with it and test ride. :fing02:
ps  if you have some .85 fork spring laying around you might try those at your weight with running a stock rear spring.

BR
On this subject, does anyone know what the maximum drop on the forks is without limiting suspension travel ? I seem to remember calculating it to be about 65 mm, but I don't remember for sure. I am running a 50 mm drop right now without issue.

-VFRGeek
Is that 50mm lower than stock you mean? That sounds like a lot! 65mm could be way too much.....

Beck
95 VFR
OUCH guys, very sorry, i posted that then forgot to look for replies, age is catching up . . .
To answer your questions, I meant 50mm TOTAL drop, not 50 mm more than stock.

-VFRGeek

40 mm tube height is fairly slow turning,  I wouldnt go any more than 49mm  , but try 45mm or 47mm.  

You may find the angle becomes uncomfoy for long rides, you can raise the clipons, maintaning the quicker steer.

Why is you shock sitting lower, defintely dont want it lower than stock

 VFRGeek, on 03 November 2011 - 06:36 AM, said:

OUCH guys, very sorry, i posted that then forgot to look for replies, age is catching up . . .
To answer your questions, I meant 50mm TOTAL drop, not 50 mm more than stock.

-VFRGeek

No worries, I knew what you meant! :tongue: