Michelin Pilot Road II Cupping?

Yeah, I know, :beatdeadhorse:

The problem is that I didn't find much in the way of an answer when I did a search.

Comments like Dunlops cause cupping didn't help me much with my Michelins.

I don't have excessive wear and the cupping is not such that it upsets the handling of the bike as of yet, but it is evident when looking closely at the tire.

Some background:

1. 2004 VFR 800, 31,800 miles

2. Tires were professionally installed and balanced the first week of June, 2011

3. 7,000 miles on them and the rear appears to be good for at least another 4 to 5 thousand miles

4. I had thought the front tire was going to be good for several thousand beyond that, but with the cupping, I think I will probably replace them as a set

5. Tire pressure is maintained regularly at 36 F, 42 R per the owner's manual

6. The cupping seems to be only on the front and only on the left side. Actual wear seems to be about equal on both sides, but the right side doesn't show any cupping (Yet)

7. I am not really an aggressive rider and while I do take some corners at speed, it's usually the RH corners that I push the most on

8. I am quite happy with the PR2s overall and the cupping came as somewhat of a surprise

To the point.

Can I be doing something that is contributing to the cupping?

Can I do something to help avoid it? (Please don't tell me to slow down)

Perhaps the crown of the road is affecting it? My rear is definitely more worn on the left side (only got 4.5k miles out of the PR2 rear)

I know i'll get flack from the michelin guys but after encountering cupping on 2 different sets of michelins , i switched to metzler and have never had cupping again. Thats my experience anyway . I think Metz use a steel band and michelin doesnt which could account for something?

I don't think 7k miles is necessarily bad service from a tire! Especially if you live in an area with more abrasive asphalt/concrete products. The VFR is no lightweight...

Wierd, I've run no less than 25 Sets of Michelins over 60,000 miles on my VFR and have never had one cup on me! :blush:

There was only one PR2 front though.

Not sure what to think about your issue.

BR

Do you notice any headshake on decel with your hands off the bars?

Try once without touching any brakes and again while touching the footbrake only.

I know that with the cupping being visible now that it may contribute to some instability on decel with no hands on hte bars but I am wondering if you may have some front bearing or brake pad wear issue.

and I would consider 7k from a tire on a VFR as a job well done.

Iowa Is one of the highest crowned roads I been on(I-80 at least)...That being said, it is usually the left turns that cause the wear on the left side of the tyre(not the crown, at least not where the tyre shows the wear, that would have to be a lot of angle in the crown to wear it that far over on the tyre). As for the Tyre it self the pattern will cause wear on some more than others, the more the lines of the pattern run with the tyre as opposed to crossing the tyre the more the cupping will happen. As you go around a turn the forces that pull the bike to the side cause the edge of the pattern(sypes) to grip, in so doing comes the wear(cupping). That's My Opinion, and I'm sticking to it.

I,ve been running PR2's (3rd set) and getting 8 to 10 on the front, and about 8 on the rear.

I was runnig PR's before and wasn't getting much if any cupping, just like the PR2's better for grip(thanks in part to the cupping) and longer wear.

y2kvfr

Perhaps the crown of the road is affecting it? My rear is definitely more worn on the left side (only got 4.5k miles out of the PR2 rear)

dude

I know i'll get flack from the michelin guys but after encountering cupping on 2 different sets of michelins , i switched to metzler and have never had cupping again. Thats my experience anyway . I think Metz use a steel band and michelin doesnt which could account for something?

I bought the bike used and replaced Michelin Pilot Roads and I didn't notice any cupping with them. I only rode the Pilot Roads about 4,000 miles before putting on the Pilot Road IIs and I have no idea as to how the previous owner rode or maintained his tires. The bike was immaculate so I don't think he abused it.

2thdr

I don't think 7k miles is necessarily bad service from a tire! Especially if you live in an area with more abrasive asphalt/concrete products. The VFR is no lightweight...

Baileyrock

Wierd, I've run no less than 25 Sets of Michelins over 60,000 miles on my VFR and have never had one cup on me! :blush:

There was only one PR2 front though.

Not sure what to think about your issue.

BR

CornerCarver

Do you notice any headshake on decel with your hands off the bars?

Try once without touching any brakes and again while touching the footbrake only.

I know that with the cupping being visible now that it may contribute to some instability on decel with no hands on hte bars but I am wondering if you may have some front bearing or brake pad wear issue.

and I would consider 7k from a tire on a VFR as a job well done.

No front end play and the brakes were checked when the tires were installed. The shop did replace the front pads at that time. Could be related, but I'm not sure just how.

As I have said before, no complaints on tire wear, just concern about the cupping.

Monk

Iowa Is one of the highest crowned roads I been on(I-80 at least)...That being said, it is usually the left turns that cause the wear on the left side of the tyre(not the crown, at least not where the tyre shows the wear, that would have to be a lot of angle in the crown to wear it that far over on the tyre). As for the Tyre it self the pattern will cause wear on some more than others, the more the lines of the pattern run with the tyre as opposed to crossing the tyre the more the cupping will happen. As you go around a turn the forces that pull the bike to the side cause the edge of the pattern(sypes) to grip, in so doing comes the wear(cupping). That's My Opinion, and I'm sticking to it.

I,ve been running PR2's (3rd set) and getting 8 to 10 on the front, and about 8 on the rear.

I was runnig PR's before and wasn't getting much if any cupping, just like the PR2's better for grip(thanks in part to the cupping) and longer wear.

I have heard/read your theory about the load variance causing cupping. I think it was BusyLittle Shop that mentioned it in another thread.

It makes sense and the camber/banking for RH turns may be reducing the load enough that I'm not getting cupping on the right side. (Yet)

My chickenstrips are about 10 to 12 mm on both sides and I almost never touch a foot peg feeler.

Interesting discussion. For me, anyway. :fing02:

Speed up !!!!!!!!!!! Your braking to hard ..

:laughing6-hehe: :laughing6-hehe: :laughing6-hehe: :laughing6-hehe: :laughing6-hehe: :laughing6-hehe: :laughing6-hehe:

Switchblade

Speed up !!!!!!!!!!! Your braking to hard ..

:laughing6-hehe: :laughing6-hehe: :laughing6-hehe: :laughing6-hehe: :laughing6-hehe: :laughing6-hehe: :laughing6-hehe:

If you are joking, :biggrin:

CharlesW

Switchblade

Speed up !!!!!!!!!!! Your braking to hard ..

:laughing6-hehe: :laughing6-hehe: :laughing6-hehe: :laughing6-hehe: :laughing6-hehe: :laughing6-hehe: :laughing6-hehe:

If you are serious, wouldn't heavy braking show up in the center of the tread? I don't do much braking in the corners.

If you are joking, :biggrin:

But it will cause your tires to wear a cross the tire tread. Some riders call this cupping.

Pull wheel, check balance? :computer-noworky:

Switchblade

But it will cause your tires to wear a cross the tire tread. Some riders call this cupping.

The cupping/wear seems to be on just the left side.

5thGenJim

Pull wheel, check balance? :computer-noworky:

I'm not big on theory, but wouldn't an out of balance tire/wheel show wear in areas other than just the left side?

The bike shows no sign of a balance problem anywhere in the speed range I ride. Including triple digit speeds.

[I very seldom ride the interstate any distance, but many of our roads have high crowns. That's one reason I take RH corners faster. The crown contributes a small amount of banking on right handers and actually gives a negative camber on left handers. The negative camber and the idiots that cross the centerline keep my speed down on left handers unless I can see quite some distance ahead.

I have heard/read your theory about the load variance causing cupping. I think it was BusyLittle Shop that mentioned it in another thread.

It makes sense and the camber/banking for RH turns may be reducing the load enough that I'm not getting cupping on the right side. (Yet)

My chickenstrips are about 10 to 12 mm on both sides and I almost never touch a foot peg feeler.

Interesting discussion. For me, anyway. :fing02:

I think we both know that can't be the case...There aren't any turns in this state.

I'm out in Waukee by the way.

How many times has your front suspension been serviced in those 30,000 miles, and are you running too low of pressure?

Braking into turns will cup the tire.

We see it a lot here. People will speed to the turn then heavy on the binders into the turn.

Then full excel out of the turn.

This destroys tires and quickly deforms the front.

Choosing a speed which you are comfortable with going into a turn will save the tire.

Then start going faster and faster into turns until you never have to apply the brakes.

Low pressure will destroy the outer edges of the tire, as well.

creaky

http://www.rattlebar...wear/index.html This is a good article on tire wear.

GOOOOOD INFO thanks for posting !!!!!!!!!!!!!!

dude

I know i'll get flack from the michelin guys but after encountering cupping on 2 different sets of michelins , i switched to metzler and have never had cupping again. Thats my experience anyway . I think Metz use a steel band and michelin doesnt which could account for something?

Metzlers will cup too , any tire can cup under the right conditions

creaky

http://www.rattlebar...wear/index.html This is a good article on tire wear.

Good? Try excellent! :fing02:

Thanks for the link. I'll probably need to read it a couple of times to digest it.

spud786

How many times has your front suspension been serviced in those 30,000 miles, and are you running too low of pressure?

Once, at the 20,000 mile mark just prior to my purchase of the bike.

Too low of pressure? I don't think so. 36 front, 42 rear, checked weekly. Sometimes 1 pound low, but often right on. The cold weather recently has made some difference. It has been my experience that 10 degrees temperature change results in about 1 pound of tire pressure difference.

Not a scientific study, just what I think I observe.

Gauge was checked by a tire shop for accuracy.

gr8vfr

Braking into turns will cup the tire.

We see it a lot here. People will speed to the turn then heavy on the binders into the turn.

Then full excel out of the turn.

This destroys tires and quickly deforms the front.

Choosing a speed which you are comfortable with going into a turn will save the tire.

Then start going faster and faster into turns until you never have to apply the brakes.

Low pressure will destroy the outer edges of the tire, as well.

I rarely brake going into a turn. It's pretty easy to get a ticket on a straight section of road here so I try to stay no more than 10 mph over the speed limit until I get to the corner and then either maintain that speed or accelerate through the corner.

I'm not really an aggressive rider and usually go no more than 20 to 30 mph over the suggested speed for a corner. Occasionally 40 over when I want my heart rate up. :smile:

I havent ran the Prod2 front, but about a dosen of the rears. I run the Ppower front, and towards end of life they show signs of some cupping, doesnt seem to effect performance at all, they run straight as an arrow.

I dont run sport tour fronts at all, here in Texas, lots of chip and seal roads, The summers get so Hot the Tar bubble up from underneathe and goes right over top of the rock, so in many places, your riding on a sheet of TAR. Not a big issue in the heat. But out in 30 degree heavy rain, that stuff gets Slick, espically pumping any speed, Ppower fronts a whole different leaque than a sport tour, in those conditions.

I have recently been told that I cannot comment on anyone else's tyres.

There's another factor that hasn't been brought up on what causes tyre cupping, plus some extra info that's worth watching.

http://youtu.be/brRDwt4Q2kQ

timmythecop

I have recently been told that I cannot comment on anyone else's tyres.

That's right Tim, but I'm not quite sure who's tires are worse! Mine or yours?

Bumping the thread... I've got very slight cupping on the front, but the rear is trashed with less than 4k (bought the bike in April with very new PR2's front and rear). The rear is heavily worn on the left side and has cupping all the way to the edge on both sides. Any common culprits?

http://i1059.photobucket.com/albums/t440/FastRC45/c3b0a078.jpg

http://i1059.photobucket.com/albums/t440/FastRC45/280b37d3.jpg

Early on my riding life I rode a road every day for 2 years to and from work, it had 6 hairpin bends, side of front tires were always cupped, cause from braking into the apex whilst on the side of the tire.

Many years latter, new tire and rode across Australian high country at a good pace, started with a new tire, when I got home, tire cupped on both sides on the front. Lots of braking into tight corners. You don't have to brake hard, just lots of it.

As for saving the tires, I don't worry, having a good time is the price of the tires. P.S. I run Metzeler M5's

But back to the cuping, might it have some to do whit when Michelin moved the production from Spain to Thailand?

I know it effected dirt/mx tires quit a bit (as I have ridden mx in the past until late 2008), both in how they gripped as wear, and there was mutch quality diffrece betwen tires from diffrent production dates, some worked better and lasted better than others even same modell as size ridden on same track.

 Ive never had any cupping on the road 2 rears, and 98% have been from Thailand. Im not sure any have came out of spain. Only my front powers have come out of spain, but a ive ran a couple dozen road 2's.

I ve seen some here post pics of cupped road 2's which was alittle surprising, many of those also have aftermarket suspension mods, which can also play a big role.

Sounds  like   your  rear   shock  is  pretty  close ...

I've never had any cupping issues with the Michelins on previous bikes including 2 sets on my last VFR, however, I've just done a tyre check on the bike I just bought and the Michelins are cupped on the front. 

I'm guessing tyre pressure may have had a lot do with this as the bike was not used often.

I've never had any cupping issues with the Michelins on previous bikes including 2 sets on my last VFR, however, I've just done a tyre check on the bike I just bought and the Michelins are cupped on the front. 

I'm guessing tyre pressure may have had a lot do with this as the bike was not used often.

But...I'm pretty ocd about tire pressure and my pp/pr2 or pr2/pr2 combos have always cupped. And yet they are the only tires that haven't induced head shake even when completely worn. And I'm not all that heavy at 185lb, but I do have an Ohlins shock and RC front suspension. But I'm not aggressive on the street although maybe a little ham fisted and clumsy through the corners. I think all my Michelins have come from Spain, except one rear from Thailand...I could smell the curry on that one.

Maybe someone needs to put all this user info in a database and create an algorithm that provides the ultimate answer.  :wink:  

Actually, my current PP3 front has worn incredibly well and evenly, no cupping. The rear PR2 is cupped though, along with being squared of from the daily commute.

Mine  cup  but  hell  slicks  cup  on  me  !!

:goofy: