I know, this topic has been beaten to death and I've read a few of the past threads, but unfortunately for me there seems to be a situation where many are discontinued.
So, I need frame sliders that are more functional than aesthetically pleasing., I care more about minimizing damage than it looking good. I'm going from 1st gen to 6th gen VFR.
How 'bout a stuntbike cage?
Where would be the points of connection be, if it could be done?
The reason I ask is that I really haven't seen any sliders that get the job done.
I remember reading about one that had an replacement coolant reservoir bottle so that you didn't need to modify it. I'd be worried about leaks if I hacked up mine.
I have personally tested the MotoVation sliders and they work at least as well as advertised. I did have to modify the coolant bottle but they worked. The R&G sliders pictured above seem to mount in the same place so if they come with a coolant bottle. . . and you have more money than time. . . I'd go with those.
R&G is the way to go, easy install with a little time and effort. Radar is no longer making his sliders according to a post I saw a little while ago, please disregard if I am mistaken and he has once again started making them. I hadn't seen the MotoVation sliders before, I shall have to go look at that now!!
R&G sliders mount in a different location, and stick out farther. I think the MV sliders would actually make plastics removal much quicker and easier but it really dosen't take me long to remove and re-install my R&G bobbins. Just an observation to help your decision.
[image: View Post]kaldek, on 19 October 2011 - 06:46 PM, said:
I use Motovation sliders.
I fitted them in 2005 - still going!
As I remember your most excellent write-up, you had some problems with the coolant bottle modification.
In fact many people had problems of some sort with modification of the coolant bottle.
What was your final solution?
How long have you been using that final solution?
I have R&G sliders on my VFR and the kit comes with a modified coolant bottle. It mounts directly to the VFR frame and doesn't get more functional than that. I have dropped my bike too many times to mention and my sliders are beat up but have not cracked once and have more than saved my fairings enough times to pay for themselves several times over. A very worthy investment. :fing02:
[image: View Post]Monk, on 19 October 2011 - 01:42 PM, said:
How 'bout a stuntbike cage?
Where would be the points of connection be, if it could be done?
The reason I ask is that I really haven't seen any sliders that get the job done.
Define "get the job done"?
Sliders protect vital engine parts (not fairings) in the event of a lay down and my R&G's have more than protected my fairings as well in the event of a drop.
Crash cages are nice but are expensive, heavy, and would require extensive fairing modifications and most likely relocating wiring and such to make work on the VFR. Especially a challenge with the side mounted radiators. If I felt that I needed to go that far to protect my VFR I would invest in a lighter bike personally.
[image: View Post]vanion2, on 20 October 2011 - 10:06 AM, said:
Define "get the job done"?
Like the situation I had with the deer and went in the ditch, I have the fairings off now while I'm still waitting for my ankle to get back to normal(2 weeks now)and the bike had my foot stuck between the hill and bike, a slider wouldn't have done a thing except dig into the ground. But giving the mc a look over, I don't see where there's a place to mount a cage bar where it's needed either. So ..........
I can't remember which ones I used (maybe Motovation) but they failed the first time I fell over at a 100 mph! :ohmy:
OK 60-70 mph.! :rolleyes: Really, I need to check as most of the damage to my bike was because the slider bolt snapped off right at the end of the threads at the shank. :sad:
A simple high side! :ph34r:
At a 100mph, I don't think a force field would have saved the bike; though, I'm sure that'd be an awesome option to have.
I'm leaning toward the R&G. Though in reference to the Monk getting his foot caught, I've seen some frame sliders that mount to the frame just forward and above the main pegs. Would that have saved a rider from being pinned? Seems it would look weird with 2 sets of frame sliders.
[image: View Post]CharlesW, on 20 October 2011 - 08:37 AM, said:
[image: View Post]kaldek, on 19 October 2011 - 06:46 PM, said:
I use Motovation sliders.
I fitted them in 2005 - still going!
As I remember your most excellent write-up, you had some problems with the coolant bottle modification.
In fact many people had problems of some sort with modification of the coolant bottle.
What was your final solution?
How long have you been using that final solution?
It's been going since 2005, haven't changed a thing. Actually I might have added a dab of silicon to a spot where I spotted a leak, but other than that she's water tight. Considering my hole is basically sealed with a cut up lid from a spray can, it shows how easy the job can be.
[image: View Post]Monk, on 20 October 2011 - 11:13 AM, said:
[image: View Post]vanion2, on 20 October 2011 - 10:06 AM, said:
Define "get the job done"?
Like the situation I had with the deer and went in the ditch, I have the fairings off now while I'm still waitting for my ankle to get back to normal(2 weeks now)and the bike had my foot stuck between the hill and bike, a slider wouldn't have done a thing except dig into the ground. But giving the mc a look over, I don't see where there's a place to mount a cage bar where it's needed either. So ..........
Ouch! Sorry to hear that! :ohmy:
But in the case of a crash cage they don't offer much more in the way of leg protection either (I think you are thinking "sissy" bars on cruisers which stick out much further) on the ones I have seen. Short of having some custom welding done I don't know what would help in your particular situation (except maybe some deer hunting :ph34r: ).
[image: View Post]vanion2, on 21 October 2011 - 08:39 AM, said:
But in the case of a crash cage they don't offer much more in the way of leg protection either (I think you are thinking "sissy" bars on cruisers which stick out much further) on the ones I have seen. Short of having some custom welding done I don't know what would help in your particular situation (except maybe some deer hunting :ph34r: ).
That's one of the things I liked about my Beemers with the boxer engine. Went down once in '73 my bike and I were lying on our side, my foot still on the peg and the only thing toughing the ground was the valve cover and tires($15 for a new cover). Never liked those crash bars though, look like scat.
[image: View Post]mamono, on 21 October 2011 - 04:27 AM, said:
At a 100mph, I don't think a force field would have saved the bike; though, I'm sure that'd be an awesome option to have.
I'm leaning toward the R&G. Though in reference to the Monk getting his foot caught, I've seen some frame sliders that mount to the frame just forward and above the main pegs. Would that have saved a rider from being pinned? Seems it would look weird with 2 sets of frame sliders.
Actually I've been off on track several times around 100 mph on my F4i and Never lost a slider! :ph34r:
Where would be the best place to purchase the R&G frame slider kit? When I did a search, I found places in the UK, Canada, and two places in the US. That can't be the only places that sell them.
R@G is a UK brand, there are only a couple dealers in US. They used to list their various dealers on their site. I bought my kit from ema-usa.com I belive (allthough I can't find the freeeekin receipt right now!!)
These are "no-cut" which appeals to me if they work but they do sit a ways back on the bike rather than directly to either side of the engine. http://t-rex-racing....og.php?item=220 ( a little cheaper)
These are "no-cut" which appeals to me if they work but they do sit a ways back on the bike rather than directly to either side of the engine.
Looking at the mounting location leaves me wondering exactly how effective these would be. Sure, your foot shifter and brake pedals would be safe but in the event of a lay down I don't see how these would protect your radiator and such as they are located too far back.
But I am considering these now as a 2nd set of sliders though. I have had to replace my foot pegs several times when I used to drop my VFR a lot (back when I lived on a slanted driveway) and these would definitely have paid for themselves had I known about them back then. :fing02:
Edit: I just read the ebay description and they even say it is a "clutch slider" and goes on to say these will offer 2 points of protection so these are exactly what I would want them for. If you are looking for "true" frame sliders though these are not it though.
[image: View Post]Monk, on 23 October 2011 - 09:30 PM, said:
http://t-rex-racing....og.php?item=220 ( a little cheaper)
They are actually the same price when you add shipping since both are sold by the same company. :491:
These are "no-cut" which appeals to me if they work but they do sit a ways back on the bike rather than directly to either side of the engine.
Looking at the mounting location leaves me wondering exactly how effective these would be. Sure, your foot shifter and brake pedals would be safe but in the event of a lay down I don't see how these would protect your radiator and such as they are located too far back.
But I am considering these now as a 2nd set of sliders though. I have had to replace my foot pegs several times when I used to drop my VFR a lot (back when I lived on a slanted driveway) and these would definitely have paid for themselves had I known about them back then. :fing02:
Edit: I just read the ebay description and they even say it is a "clutch slider" and goes on to say these will offer 2 points of protection so these are exactly what I would want them for. If you are looking for "true" frame sliders though these are not it though.
[image: View Post]mamono, on 21 October 2011 - 04:27 AM, said:
I'm leaning toward the R&G. Though in reference to the Monk getting his foot caught, I've seen some frame sliders that mount to the frame just forward and above the main pegs. Would that have saved a rider from being pinned? Seems it would look weird with 2 sets of frame sliders.
That's what I brought up earlier about having 2 sets of frame sliders.
[image: View Post]mamono, on 24 October 2011 - 01:18 PM, said:
[image: View Post]mamono, on 21 October 2011 - 04:27 AM, said:
I'm leaning toward the R&G. Though in reference to the Monk getting his foot caught, I've seen some frame sliders that mount to the frame just forward and above the main pegs. Would that have saved a rider from being pinned? Seems it would look weird with 2 sets of frame sliders.
That's what I brought up earlier about having 2 sets of frame sliders.
Still wouldn't be very effective on anything except hard surfaces as far as keeping the foot from getting pinned but would increase the chances of escape and lower damage costs. :fing02:
[image: View Post]vanion2, on 25 October 2011 - 08:29 AM, said:
[image: View Post]mamono, on 24 October 2011 - 01:18 PM, said:
[image: View Post]mamono, on 21 October 2011 - 04:27 AM, said:
I'm leaning toward the R&G. Though in reference to the Monk getting his foot caught, I've seen some frame sliders that mount to the frame just forward and above the main pegs. Would that have saved a rider from being pinned? Seems it would look weird with 2 sets of frame sliders.
That's what I brought up earlier about having 2 sets of frame sliders.
Still wouldn't be very effective on anything except hard surfaces as far as keeping the foot from getting pinned but would increase the chances of escape and lower damage costs. :fing02:
[image: View Post]Metallican525, on 22 October 2011 - 04:49 PM, said:
If you go to rg-racing.com and look under partners you can search more nationwide/worldwide for dealers too.
I can't seem to get the partner list to work properly to find all their California dealers. Anyone know where is a good place to get the R&G kit? Search on EMA website doesn't turn up anything.
Try this link, should take you to "stockists" for Cali. you will probably have to call or email whomever you are ordering them from. EMA does not list their R&G parts on their site but instead links you directly to R&G's site to browse products. Any dealer/stockist should do as long as you tell them what to order/get you. As for axle sliders I know racers that use them and trust them but I have no personal experience with them.
I just got my 2002 about 3 weeks ago. Rode it from Ashland OR back home to Dallas. What a ride down the PCH to LA then east through the Angeles Crest Hwy, by the Grand Canyon, through northern Arizona and NM. But I digress. About the only thing the bike didn't have was frame sliders. I don't like the idea of having to cut holes in my fairings and having to remove the sliders anytime I want to take off (or even loosen) the fairings. I didn't particularly like the location of the T-Rex sliders being so close to my shin. I'm now working with T-Rex (they are here in Dallas) on creating a mount that will attach at the location their no-cut sliders currently mount but move the sliders forward to right behind the fairing. The won't rotate either like other off-set mounts due to some tabs that will go under and behind the frame there. I've created a model I will be sending them pictures of, probably tonight, and see if they think it is manufacturable. I think they will work well but we'll see. I'll let you know what they say. The price would be a little higher than the current no-cut due to the added cost of the mount, may another $10-15.
[image: View Post]rolandjjr, on 10 November 2011 - 12:14 PM, said:
I just got my 2002 about 3 weeks ago. Rode it from Ashland OR back home to Dallas. What a ride down the PCH to LA then east through the Angeles Crest Hwy, by the Grand Canyon, through northern Arizona and NM. But I digress. About the only thing the bike didn't have was frame sliders. I don't like the idea of having to cut holes in my fairings and having to remove the sliders anytime I want to take off (or even loosen) the fairings. I didn't particularly like the location of the T-Rex sliders being so close to my shin. I'm now working with T-Rex (they are here in Dallas) on creating a mount that will attach at the location their no-cut sliders currently mount but move the sliders forward to right behind the fairing. The won't rotate either like other off-set mounts due to some tabs that will go under and behind the frame there. I've created a model I will be sending them pictures of, probably tonight, and see if they think it is manufacturable. I think they will work well but we'll see. I'll let you know what they say. The price would be a little higher than the current no-cut due to the added cost of the mount, may another $10-15.
The only thing I have to post pictures of is the model I made with some aluminum sheeting for the mount bracket and a toilet paper tube for the slider. Looks a little silly right now but I made it to show T-Rex the general design I came up with and how it would mount. Just think of the slider being about 2" further forward and about 1" higher than the bottom frame bolt where their no-cut currently mounts. That puts it right behind the fairing. With the model in place it seemed to give plenty of legroom to avoid shin banging and better protection for the fairing. They said they were interested. But until they make at least a prototype (or say they're not interested) I don't think it would be wise to put up any pictures. Sorry. If they do decide to make it, it shouldn't be more than a couple of months before it's available. I just wanted to let you guys know there may soon be a good option to the current designs available now, neither of which I'm very fond of.
That makes sense. Hopefully they will compensate you for your time and efforts to mock up a template for them allowing them to not even have to aquire a bike and do the initial fab work. Many tool companies will now pay for ideas for tools now, seems a great idea to get minds thinking that can't nesissarily fund hours of custom cnc work to hammer out a couple real prototypes. Cmon TREX!!!!!!!!!! We wanna see a no cut kit that might actually work!!!!!!!!!!
Funny (not really) story on the side cases working as frame sliders. On my way back to Dallas from OR, I was going to spend my last night on the road at a friends parent's house in Amarillo. My GPS told me to turn right on his street but I saw the street numbers going the wrong way. I pulled into a driveway to turn around (it was very dark) and backing back out of the driveway, my rear wheel went into a pothole which I couldn't see and the bike went down on the right side. I couldn't stop it but I was able to keep it from falling and laid it down as gently as I could. I felt sick to my stomach. It was laying completely on the right side case. The next day in the daylight back at my friends house I inspected it very closely. The only scratches were fairly light and only on the right case. Nothing at all on the fairings. It was a miracle. If it had actually fallen, I doubt the case would have not cracked and certainly would not hold up to a slide which is why I still want the sliders. But thank God, the fairings were spared in the tip over. When I picked up the bike a few days earlier in OR, the plastic was all like new.
I also took a little trip down into a ditch a year ago on my Ninja. What I thought was a left curve was actually a hairpin which I didn't realize until almost halfway thru it. So I was on the wrong line. Leaned over as fair as I could (new front tire and the road was a little wet) but ran out of road. Almost made it. Anyway, I had soft side bags which were secured at the bottom and the back of the bike suffered no damage. It did crack my front fairing. Once I went off the road and was sliding on dirt and grass, the bags only got dirty but sliding on a street would have probably been a different story. And I doubt soft bags would protrude far enough out (or support the weight of the bike) to keep the fairings off the ground even if they didn't come apart.
I can't remember the name of the company but there are "no cut" frame sliders available. The problem is the bracket the sliders mount to are located right over both the radiators. You do a real drop or lay it down on those and you are looking at a punctured radiator.
As for cutting a hole in the fairings, the sliders cover that up nicely and removing them takes all of an extra minute more. As the OP said, function over form and I for one would rather have a chance at riding my VFR home than be stuck waiting for a tow truck. But that's how I see it.
[image: View Post]rolandjjr, on 14 November 2011 - 02:35 PM, said:
Funny (not really) story on the side cases working as frame sliders.
Cool story, I've been considering getting saddle bags, but haven't pulled the trigger on any. As for the T-Rex no-cut frame sliders, would the new location still protect the shifter and rear brake? I know that people have been concerned about banging up their shins, but others have made the point that they protect the shifter/brake so that you can at least limp home without needing to tow.
[image: View Post]vanion2, on 15 November 2011 - 08:50 AM, said:
I can't remember the name of the company but there are "no cut" frame sliders available. The problem is the bracket the sliders mount to are located right over both the radiators. You do a real drop or lay it down on those and you are looking at a punctured radiator.
As for cutting a hole in the fairings, the sliders cover that up nicely and removing them takes all of an extra minute more. As the OP said, function over form and I for one would rather have a chance at riding my VFR home than be stuck waiting for a tow truck. But that's how I see it.
I don't mind taking the extra time to pull the frame slider to get the fairings off. The added protection is worth the effort. It's just the wait time to get the frame slider kit... I'm still waiting for it...
My bike is over at T-Rex now. I had another idea about using the fairing mount bolt hole to attach the slider to the mount bracket which would go up behind the fairing. They made a modification to that which now adds another support piece on the outside. Not sure how it will look but it should be very strong and the only cutting required is enlarging that bolt hole by about .2mm to accept a 10mm bolt.
Also, if anyone is interest I designed a general purpose rear rack which will easily accept a mount base for pretty much any rear topcase. I brought them the pieces and they are going to weld and powder coat it for me so I'll have pics of that to show too. I guess it is a similar to the SWM Alu-Rk but probably 5X stronger. I don't know if they will try to market it or not. I'm sure they will want to hear what you guys think about that as well. Hopefully, I'll have pictures posted by this weekend of the sliders and the rack.
Sorry it took a while. I'm typing this hoping I can post the pictures. I've got freshly charged batteries now which will hopefully last long enough to get the pictures loaded.
So here is the right side slider:
[image: HPIM0294.JPG]
Here is the left side:
[image: HPIM0295.JPG]
Behind the fairing is another bracket bolted at two spots for extra support. The inner bracket by itself would probably work to protect the fairing and stator cover in event of a tip over but probably would bend in event of a hard slide and crack the fairing. The outer bracket ain't going nowhere. So what do you guys think? Ugly? Love it? Other???
For your further enjoyment, here is the rear mount they put together from the pieces I cut and drilled. They welded and powder coated it for me.
[image: HPIM0297.JPG]
Here is with the topcase on:
[image: HPIM0299.JPG]
And lastly, here is the I lip cut out and shaped from a sheet of tinted Lexan and I added to the ZG touring screen:
[image: HPIM0300.JPG]
Now I can just lean over a little bit, elbow on tank, and have pretty much silence. I think I'll order some of the sticky tabs from Laminar to replace the square strips I got at the office supply. I've had it over 100mph and it didn't budge. You can also see the mirror extenders they made for me.
Tom at T-Rex said they probably wouldn't make and sell the rear mount. I understand that. It was necessary to align and weld the mount plates to the tubes first, then bolt on to get the exact position to know where to weld the crossbars at the back. But it cost me about $20 for the parts and when it was mounted I stood behind the bike and almost lifted myself (165 lbs dressed) off the ground. I'm sure I put over 100lbs on the ends of the two tubes and they didn't move at all. So it should be plenty strong and I can still use the pillion. If you can weld or know someone who can that you won't have to pay, you can make one yourself, cheap (which is my middle name).
So let me know what you think. Am I over-pimping my ride?
Lookin good, new sliders look pretty stout. Didn't expect them to run the brackets that way, do the brackets contact or nearly contact the frame to support the sliders in the event of a down??
Metal:
Not sure what you mean by "do the brackets contact or nearly contact the frame". The bracket you can see is mounted to the frame with the two bolts you see. There are spacers behind the bracket which you can see in the second picture. There is also a bracket behind the fairing (can't see it here) which bolts to the frame and the slider bolt screws into. If you mean do the brackets contact the fairing, the answer is sort of. There is no pressure on the fairing. The slider bolt goes through the fairing mount hole (had to be enlarged by less than .5mm for a 10mm bolt). The bolt screws into the inner bracket until it is tightened against the outer bracket. There is a plastic spacer behind the outer bracket to keep the fairing from being loose but there is no pressure on it. There is some foam padding on the back of the outer bracket to protect the fairing from getting scratched from incidental movement. Otherwise there would be a small (about 1mm) gap between the back of the outer bracket and the fairing.
The bracket is 1/4" steel. The puck is a plastic they call UHMW-PE (ultra high molecular weight polyethylene). They say it is better than Delrin since it is as hard as Delrin but not as brittle and won't come off in pieces (tiny chips) like Delrin in the event of a slide.
The looks don't bother me. The only thing I don't like is having to loosing the outer bracket bolts on the frame and remove one of them to be able to swing the bracket out of the way to remove the fairing. It can be tricky getting those bolts in. I think a similar design can be done with the bracket behind the fairing so that once it's mounted, it will only be necessary to remove the puck to get the fairing off. They did it this way in the event of a hard slide where the puck can catch on something (like a pothole) and bend the bolt. Without the outer bracket, if the bolt just goes through the fairing mount hole and the bolt bends, it can crack the fairing. I'm of the opinion that a 12mm bolt with a short steel sleeve around it (would require enlarging the hole a little more) were mounted to a bracket like this behind the fairing, it would be strong enough to not bend in any accident that wouldn't be severe enough to do major damage anyway in which case no frame slider would be sufficient. I'm going back over their Tuesday or Wednesday and will discuss it with them.
In case anyone is still following this, I talked with Tom at T-Rex this morning. I'll be bringing my bike over their next week for them to redesign the bracket to go behind the fairing. The slider would be in the same position as in the pictures but the bracket would go behind the fairing instead of over it. He agrees that it will be more work for people to get the fairing off with the current design (pics above) since it would have to be done anytime a fairing was to be removed. His only reservation is that he thinks a lot of people will instantly reject the design with the bracket behind the fairing since it will require enlarging the bolt hole in the fairing. Can I get any feedback from you guys?
I won't get the R&G type sliders mainly because I don't want to cut 2" holes in my fairing. That would make any mistake in locating the correct position for the hole either very costly (replace the fairing) or unsightly (enlarge the hole). I've read others say that the slider bolt bent and ruined their fairing when they went down. Plus I don't like the idea of it bolted to the engine rather than the frame. Using the existing bolt hole would make it a no-brainer for getting the correct location.
The problem with this bike is that there just aren't a lot of options. As I see it, the choices are (negatives in parentheses):
1) Cut style mounted to engine (drill large hole)
2) no cut style coming through side hole over radiator (risk radiator damage in case of a fall)
3) no cut style behind fairing (not enough leg clearance, bang shins. also not great location to really protect fairings)
4) no cut style with bracket over the fairing (pics above - enlarge bolt hole from 9.5 to 10mm)
5) minimum cut using rear fairing bolt hole (enlarge bolt hole from 9.5 to 15mm)
Anyway, feedback please on whether enlarging the bolt hole from 9.5mm to about 15mm (to accommodate a 10mm bolt and a sleeve) would discourage you from installing frame sliders or if one of the other options would be your preference.
I have to admit a low speed tipover with hard sidecases mounted and learned what touches the ground. I only scraped the first 3 inches of the nose ahead of the side fairing. The place where your slider is would never touch the ground with side cases mounted. So i have to assume that the slider is for non-touring rides. The 9/16" (15mm) hole (option 5) is an easier sell than the 2 inch hole.
Thanks for the reply. Yeah, if you have the luggage on, the frame sliders would have to be veeerrryy long to even touch the ground. So long they would probably not hold up to a real slide. I can only say it was a miracle a couple of months ago when riding mine back from Ashland OR (where I picked it up) to Dallas and backing out of a driveway in Amarillo in the dark, my rear wheel rolled into a pothole. The bike went over on it's right side too fast for me to stop it but I was able to lay it down sort of gently (with my foot underneath). I was sure I had scratched up the fairings even though from what I could see in the dark it looked like it was just laying on the right side case. When I got it into some light, I couldn't see any scratches on the fairing and daylight the next morning confirmed that the only scratches were some light ones on the right case. Thank you Lord.
But I do plan to do some riding without the luggage on which is why I want the sliders.
Just wanted to out it out there that an Australian manufacturer 'Oggy Knobs' does a no cut option frame slider which has very good reviews. Not cheap and unsure of US distributors but worth checking out for those who don't fancy cuttin into those pretty fairings.
[image: View Post]Larrakin, on 18 February 2012 - 05:59 AM, said:
Just wanted to out it out there that an Australian manufacturer 'Oggy Knobs' does a no cut option frame slider which has very good reviews. Not cheap and unsure of US distributors but worth checking out for those who don't fancy cuttin into those pretty fairings.
I looked at the oggy knobs and nearly fainted at price. besides the fact that in my quick search it seemed buying them here in the U.S. would be fairly difficult. The other thing i was thinking was adding "clutch" sliders, front axle sliders and bar end sliders, thus giving the bike 3 points of contact rather than 1 and perhaps keeping the bike/ my foot fairly safe in a slide? any thoughts?
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