VFR1200 2012

Sounds like Honda is bring a new blue color, traction control, more horse power, and smoother trans on the the DCT!

Sounds like what I've heard all my life when buying a car or bike, "wait for the 2nd to 3rd year model before buying".

To the Honda people (We know you're reading this forum)

Upgrading kits (at very resonable prices) should be available for all first year buyers.
After all your "first year buyers" made it possible to evaluate your product.
Our experiences and comments made it possible to improve your product.
We help you - why shouldn't you help us?

to bad they only made the gastank about 400ML larger. wow 19L. my 750's more of a tourer than the 1200 in that perspective

[image: View Post]vfrflanders, on 12 November 2011 - 03:06 PM, said:

To the Honda people (We know you're reading this forum)

Upgrading kits (at very resonable prices) should be available for all first year buyers.
After all your "first year buyers" made it possible to evaluate your product.
Our experiences and comments made it possible to improve your product.
We help you - why shouldn't you help us?

How do you know it won't be made available as a retrofit?

[image: View Post]Solomoto, on 12 November 2011 - 06:00 PM, said:

[image: View Post]vfrflanders, on 12 November 2011 - 03:06 PM, said:

To the Honda people (We know you're reading this forum)

Upgrading kits (at very resonable prices) should be available for all first year buyers.
After all your "first year buyers" made it possible to evaluate your product.
Our experiences and comments made it possible to improve your product.
We help you - why shouldn't you help us?

How do you know it won't be made available as a retrofit?
I don't - But we know they read our forums (this forum is the cheapest marketing tool they have - it doesn't cost them a penny) - why don't we ask it to them...

Reading the european forums, I came upon the impression that they had reprogrammed the ECU, a offer that was extended to the end user if you brought your VFR to the dealership http://www.bikersora...ad.php?t=114975

As stated hopefully this will be made available to us in the United States.... not holding my breath though....

[image: View Post]freddie, on 13 November 2011 - 06:12 AM, said:

Reading the european forums, I came upon the impression that they had reprogrammed the ECU, a offer that was extended to the end user if you brought your VFR to the dealership http://www.bikersora...ad.php?t=114975

As stated hopefully this will be made available to us in the United States.... not holding my breath though....
It is true the EU got a map upgrade, but it wasn't about removing the flat spot nor adding TC, it was to address fueling glitches at low rpms, pretty much what a Power Commander would do.

However, I would not be surprised if with a later software upgrade, the 2010 could be brought up to par with the 2012 in terms of TC and 1st & 2nd gear power characteristics. TC for the most part is a software algorithm which takes its inputs from the front and rear speed sensors; the power characteristics are also controlled by altering throttle and ignition timing with software algorithms.

So in theory, the 2010 should be upgradable with a flash update. The argument against this possibility is the new algorithms may require additional CPU power and memory, and maybe the addition of other sensors such as bank angle and accelerometer. Replacing the ECU with an upgraded unit seems doable but at a price ($), but if other hardware (sensors) is required it tends to negate this notion since the ECU connectors, wiring harness, etc. may not support them. If additional hardware is required, I wonder if the hooks (provision) have been put in place in the 2010 model to accommodate them. Let's hope so.

The ECU reprogramming seems limited to UK and few dealers in other european countries. In Italy no one have information about this matter.
In my opinion it is not a real reprogramming, but only an ECU reset concerning the self-learning area of memory. It is also write on Service Manual.
Concerning the possibility to use the 2012 maps with 2010-2011 version, I think that Honda will not give this option to the owners. They prefer we take a new bike.
Please also remember that Traction Control can be disabled with a button located in the left side of top fairing, so it is not only a matter of ECU reprogramming.
Also the Speedometer is changed: new lamp for TC and new information concerning current mpg and left km to dry.

[image: View Post]ilprofessore, on 13 November 2011 - 02:55 PM, said:

Concerning the possibility to use the 2012 maps with 2010-2011 version, I think that Honda will not give this option to the owners. They prefer we take a new bike.
Please also remember that Traction Control can be disabled with a button located in the left side of top fairing, so it is not only a matter of ECU reprogramming.
Also the Speedometer is changed: new lamp for TC and new information concerning current mpg and left km to dry.

That is a good point about the added TC switch on the 2012. However, from a purely technical point of view that alone would not preclude the new 2012 software from being compatible with 2010 models if there were no other hardware limitations as I described in my prior post.

The 2012 software could simply interpret the lack of TC switch on 2010 models as being "always on" which by itself would be an acceptable trade off to me if it meant getting the new features i.e. eliminating the gnarly 1st and 2nd gear flat spot. The same applies to the 2012 dash with added trip information, it simply would not display this info on 2010 models.

From a marketing perspective, it would be in Honda's interest to release this upgrade to 2010 owners. It would buy them HUGE points on the satisfaction index, as well as very positive press. It's a win-win proposition: 2010 owner's win, Honda win's. The only thing in my mind that would scuttle this (assuming that the upgrade is technically backward compatible) would be the lawyer weenies getting in the way about liability this or that.... Withholding it simply because they want trade-ins and more sales is short sighted.

[image: View Post]Solomoto, on 13 November 2011 - 10:06 PM, said:

Withholding it simply because they want trade-ins and more sales is short sighted.


:tongue: you are mixing marriage (= long haul) with business (short term interest) :tongue:

One buys a product "as advertised"
If you want more/different features that arrive later, you pay...
I'd hazard a guess that many companies (not only bikes, but computers, washing machines you name it) have a whole shelf full of options, improvements etc they could introduce right now. But do not simply because future models will need "new" "improved" features and they will do research when the market (ie you) is willing to pay a bit extra, decide to trade in... Look how long it took between BMW introducing ABS and it becoming " mainstream"...


Later 6th gen models got a different mapping that engaged Vtec at a different point. I donot think Honda offered this as a free upgrade no?


just my 2cents

Occupy Honda!

Arm the homeless!!!!!









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[image: View Post]Dutchy, on 14 November 2011 - 04:58 AM, said:

[image: View Post]Solomoto, on 13 November 2011 - 10:06 PM, said:

Withholding it simply because they want trade-ins and more sales is short sighted.


:tongue: you are mixing marriage (= long haul) with business (short term interest) :tongue:

One buys a product "as advertised"
If you want more/different features that arrive later, you pay...
I'd hazard a guess that many companies (not only bikes, but computers, washing machines you name it) have a whole shelf full of options, improvements etc they could introduce right now. But do not simply because future models will need "new" "improved" features and they will do research when the market (ie you) is willing to pay a bit extra, decide to trade in... Look how long it took between BMW introducing ABS and it becoming " mainstream"...


Later 6th gen models got a different mapping that engaged Vtec at a different point. I donot think Honda offered this as a free upgrade no?


just my 2cents

Nowhere did I suggest this should be for free, in fact in an earlier post I thought there might even be an expensive ECU swap. This difference in this scenario it can be argued is that the 2010 was intentionally crippled because the development of TC was not mature enough to release at that time. Yeah, the same could be said of any number of technologies that are withheld because they are not ready for public consumption, but here is a case where if the upgrade to 2012 is entirely software and is backward compatible, Honda would do well by the early adopters even if it's for a nominal fee.

Honda would probably get rid of the rest of the 2010's if they had TC on them. The TC makes the bike pricing right IMO and and and and.... first and second are so so :sad: to ride with that crippled map. If enough people wreck the bikes in low speed 1-2 gears we would have a case on our hands. Second if we got lawyers involved they would probably force the hand of honda to retrofit TC on these units. Hell if Toyota can have a lawsuit for sticking gas peddles I think we can have one for improper throttle/timing map.

[image: View Post]ignoreance, on 21 November 2011 - 10:07 AM, said:

Honda would probably get rid of the rest of the 2010's if they had TC on them. The TC makes the bike pricing right IMO and and and and.... first and second are so so :sad: to ride with that crippled map. If enough people wreck the bikes in low speed 1-2 gears we would have a case on our hands. Second if we got lawyers involved they would probably force the hand of honda to retrofit TC on these units. Hell if Toyota can have a lawsuit for sticking gas peddles I think we can have one for improper throttle/timing map.

Who's "We"?
Why would people wreck their bikes in 1st and 2nd??
Get lawyers involved??
Do you actually know anything about these bikes?

Your forum name is certainly spot on, if it was spelled correctly. :laughing6-hehe:

Yes I own one. Most people do not use the resources available to get a problem corrected.


Have you ridding the bike Full lean and have the power come out of the Crippled Part of map to the full power map? Guess not It causes a high side moment. How do I know hmmm, I ride it? I believe one person has already crashed there bikes low side because the clipped map.(Here or at VFRWorld.)

Hmmmm Who is "We"? Are you really asking that?
The above reason in stock form if the bike has wreck's on it it would be flagged on DOT and cause a recall and Honda would be forced to recall and buy back there "Alpha" (opinion) 2010 Bike as I believe that they released the 2010 and it was suppose to have TC on it and they didn't have it done someone high up said make the product roll and they did.

Lawyers involved is not a bad thing. They have the Teeth to actually correct the problem and force HONDA to fix the bike.

Tell me what the camshaft duration on this bike is at .040 Lift not a hard one for me the intake has a lift rate of 230 Degrees of rotation while the exhaust Cam has a slightly longer duration at 237 Degrees. Nope don't know anything about the bike. Will have actual valve lift numbers when I do the 16000 valve adjustment.(Honda only gave Lobe Dia in manual.)

The above duration is actually only obtained through calculations but if you want to get the manual out and tell me how I arrived at the duration your more than welcome too....

I usually don't crank the throttle wide open at full lean in first or second.

It is not even full throttle crank its as it comes out of the restricted map. Switch the switch to off Phobe and try and ride the bike leaned over like Honda put the bike out.

If more people called up Honda about the first-second gear bull the problem. You think they will fix a problem because we complain about it on the board.... Hello HHHHOOOONNNDDDDDAAAA please respond.

Nope no Honda Rep here.


I for one have already called American Honda Powersports about it and logged my complaint. I will also call back periodically to see what they art doing about it.

Relax.... Suzuki has made their GSXRs with a timing retarder that does the exact same thing for at least 10 years.

[image: View Post]seth89, on 12 November 2011 - 05:40 PM, said:

to bad they only made the gastank about 400ML larger. wow 19L. my 750's more of a tourer than the 1200 in that perspective

I saw the press release, it said bigger fuel tank for more range I was thinking well thats about time.

So I started looking at the 2012 specs vs the 2011 specs, and saw 5.0 gallons up from 4.9???? Like come on Honda 0.1 gallons??? Thats about 4 miles at best added to the bike's range? That's not a bigger tank, I can put 0.1 gallons more in my 6th gen by filling it on the center stand not the side stand.

[image: View Post]NorthernVFRDave, on 24 November 2011 - 02:38 PM, said:

[image: View Post]seth89, on 12 November 2011 - 05:40 PM, said:

to bad they only made the gastank about 400ML larger. wow 19L. my 750's more of a tourer than the 1200 in that perspective

I saw the press release, it said bigger fuel tank for more range I was thinking well thats about time.

So I started looking at the 2012 specs vs the 2011 specs, and saw 5.0 gallons up from 4.9???? Like come on Honda 0.1 gallons??? Thats about 4 miles at best added to the bike's range? That's not a bigger tank, I can put 0.1 gallons more in my 6th gen by filling it on the center stand not the side stand.
"Truth in advertising"........That's sad :huh:

Really? Traction control?...why?

Took my '10 VFR out to Laguna Seca this past weekend...aside from lean angle limitations due to dragging hard parts, it handled great. Coming into the turns hovering at 9K RPMs and occasional hard trailbraking through T2, the linked/ABS system was a non issue as some have complained about in other posts. Pinning the throttle out of mid apex in the low gears was a non pucker factor..the Pirelli slicks kept the VFRs tires planted on the tarmac with very predictable slide.

Learn the bike by pushing it to the limits incrementally..then push harder to understand it's full capability in stock form. Yes, definitely needs suspension work but nonetheless it was rock solid, stable and deceptively fast.

For those who want to ride aggressively the OEM tires are a terrible combination for this bike . I'd go for the Bridgestone BT016R, or Dunlop Qualifier Q2 for spirited street riding and full blown slicks for the track if you plan on pushing hard. The VFR requires the best tires for the track if you plan on going all out on this near 600lb bike.


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VFR1965-
Allow me to be the first to say: "Bad-ass!" (I can't believe no one else has commented yet on the fact that you've taken your fancy new 1200 and put it through the paces on a track). Anyone who complains about the bikes sporting shortcomings should check out your post first.

That has to be the most comfortable track bike I've ever seen :laugh:
Is the pillion cover also made by Corbin?

V4 Rosso, on 29 November 2011 - 07:07 AM, said: That has to be the most comfortable track bike I've ever seen Is the pillion cover also made by Corbin? Yes, it is made by Corbin. Gives it a nice touch to the VFR AvalonRacing, on 29 November 2011 - 12:36 AM, said: VFR1965- Allow me to be the first to say: "Bad-ass!" (I can't believe no one else has commented yet on the fact that you've taken your fancy new 1200 and put it through the paces on a track). Anyone who complains about the bikes sporting shortcomings should check out your post first. Nobody should be complaining about the the VFR unless you are Valentino Rossi 1st/2nd gear power limitations? Not an issue when you're hauling some bones with mean intentions. Remember this is a "gentleman's bike"....and gentlemen don't know how to ride I have zero regrets in buying the VFR - it is everything Honda designed it to be and I am more impressed everytime I ride it on the street or track. Unfortunately my GoPro didn't take a single video...operator error....dammit! However I did get a chance to end the day by taking my Goldwing out on the Laguna tarmac...that was the most fun part of the day!

Not a chicken in sight! :tour:


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VFR1965, on 29 November 2011 - 10:57 AM, said: However I did get a chance to end the day by taking my Goldwing out on the Laguna tarmac...that was the most fun part of the day! Sweet video! You guys are riding those Goldwings harder than 99% of the guys who buy the latest CBR and Busas.

Laguna is a super speedway type GP track. I think someone else here has tracked the bike too... Phobe if I remember correct.

Guess calling it linked breaks is still correct but I keep thinking everybody is referring to front to rear link.

Cool beans seeing the bike cranked.

Do you have a second set of rim's for track?

Good way to enjoy the track

Absolutely no issues here with 1st and 2nd gear? I have given this bike the hard treatment all over the USA on some of the best roads and the only short comming I can find is the RIDER! I really flogged it in northern california this summer and she performed quite well at full lean in those 20 mph marked turns on hwy 36, and then 3 going east to Weaverville, I think I found a groove on that day! I think if you remove that stupid flapper cable in the stock exaust it smooths out very nicely, and better with a leo vince slipon! Just low mpg when you flog it! Darned 4.8 gal tank! I got a tourtank I think I will try to fit this winter! 8 gallon veefalo! can you see 300 miles on a vfr! HEH