98 won't Start

HI all, I am getting close to my wit's end on this.

Background:
The bike has sat for two months. Before that I was having charging troubles and found my 3 yellow wire connector burnt out. Soldered them to one another, go to test it, bike won't start.

Symptoms:
Bike's ignition turns on. I get all lights and fuel pump primes. FI light goes out. Engine cranks over, but does not fire.

What I have done:
New fuel - jumpered the brown and black/white wires on the fuel cutoff relay and flowed the new fuel through.
Fuel pump is working fine, pressure to spec. Can smell fuel at the exhaust tip.
Getting spark on all 4 plugs. Look fine, replaced 15,000kms ago.
Tried my normal starting procedure, choke in usual position, then later in all kinds of positions.
I'm not even getting pops or misfires.
Air filter is clean and dry.
I thought I may have flooded it and have allowed several days to see if that were the case... but no dice.

This is where I'm at now. Don't have a compression gauge. Can't see how it would loose compression from just sitting.
My next step is to pull off the airbox, make sure each cylinder is getting fuel and maybe change the plugs.
Even tempted to spray some "Start ya Bastard" down there to see if there's life.

Please, I am open to suggestions.

I would try and steer you away from the "Start ya Bastard" spray.  You only need three things for an engine to spit fire, and we know you should have two of them.  You have fuel if you can smell it in the exhaust, and like you said, compression just doesn't go away from sitting for a couple months.  The third item needed is fire (spark) which you haven't looked into from your description.  I would pull a couple plugs and verify you have spark to them, and from you tale, I suspect you don't.  And this is where your troubleshooting skills will come into play.  Good luck!

check the plugs - if they are wet - then you dont have spark or spark at the right time...but it should fire
if the plugs are dry - you have not fuel coming into the body...Fuel injectors could be bad or blocked

Yeah I have spark, all 4 plugs... they were dry, normal condition.
I was wondering if I purged all the old fuel properly, with the jumper technique.
I let the pump run for a good 10 seconds to cycle the fuel.

Here are the old plugs:
They were sparking well, nice bright blue.
I can't get my hands on a compression gauge immediately.
Decided to try new plugs anyway, update later today.


[image: Posted Image]

if you are cranking for sometime and the plugs are dry - you have a fuel issue...NOT COMING INTO THE THROTTLE BODY !

Thanks for sticking with me Ani... the plugs were dry cause they were taken out of the bike several hours beforehand.
Update: new plugs went in, no start, pulled em out, wet with fuel. Plug sparks when earthed on the frame.

:mad:

Did you check all the fuses(one is hidden in there somewheres)

I know I'm not much help, but you soldered some stuff on the electrical system, so I would begin with all fuses and sensors.

also try starting from a remote fuel source to eliminate the gas in the tank as a culprit.

I hope you get to it soon.

Yeah the fuses are all good - I was hoping it was something simple like that.
I'm getting no FI codes either.
All plugs are wet with fuel.
I drained the tank and flushed the fuel rail.


Just to add it also has a new air filter, new battery, new plugs.
I'm not starting it any differently that I used to.

Maybe it just needs a new owner :sad:
I managed to get her fire very briefly, but then back to the endless cranking.

Somehow I think it's flooding.
I can smell alot of fuel at the exhaust.
I'm gonna leave her sit for a while.

Do fuel injected engines flood? I thought that was only carbs?

[image: View Post]Vee-Ef-Ar, on 17 April 2012 - 03:10 AM, said:

Background:
The bike has sat for two months. Before that I was having charging troubles and found my 3 yellow wire connector burnt out. Soldered them to one another

Well usually when a connector burns up on the Stator the stator is burned up as well! I suspect you have no spark cause your stator is shot! Might want to have a peek under that stator cover to see if you have a krispy looking stator,  this happened to Didit on our trip to California, it showed up as a burned up connector but when we got the stator cover off it was burned up too.


[image: index.php?app=gallery&module=images&section=img_ctrl&img=581] Not a happy camper we rode the whole day before with his lights unplugged and limped it all the way to Eureka where Tightwad had the parts overnighted to us directly to the motel Album: 2011 Trip California Uploaded 20 Feb 2012 - 05:38


[image: index.php?app=gallery&module=images&section=img_ctrl&img=580] Uh OHH that dont look good Didits bike would not start at the gas station Album: 2011 Trip California Uploaded 19 Feb 2012 - 21:02

The stator wire solder was just going to be a temp fix until I could start the bike and run the tests.
I didn't think the stator could cause the bike not to spark, it's just there to charge the battery (which provides the power for the plugs)
The battery is new and I do have spark.
I went and tried again and it chugs a few times but then dies off with just the choke applied.
I've tried the open throttle method, and it just dumps alot of fuel into the cylinders.

Well you are pretty much going right down the line for what the manual says to look at.  It says when engine starts but stops you might have contaminated fuel, ignition timing issues (coil or pulse generator), an intake leak, improper choke operation.  Have you ever synced the starter valves?

You do have spark and you say its good spark, but I am just saying a burned up connector on the stator just clued me in that could be showing only battery voltage, you said you had charging issues before so perhaps the spark is weak, you might try jumping the battery and then see if you get it to start?  If it does start that way your not getting enough volts from the stator - should be getting at least 13.5 volts when it cranks over, that little bit of extra voltage a good stator provides might be the key.

I won't be able to see what the charging system is doing without the bike starting.
I've done a couple of starter syncs in it's life, but again cannot adjust without her running.
Normally if the starter valves are out it will still start, maybe just idle a bit rough.

I've been following the manual to a T.

How do you mean "jumping the battery"?

It's a miracle... the bike started!!!
Who knows what I did, but she's running.

Had time to test the charging voltage - 12.1 @ 2,000rpm
Gonna start with the stator outputs and go from there.

My SP1 sat for a couple months over the winter and was just as tough to get fired as you experienced. No real answer, just confirming that it can happen. I had to hook up the battery charger set on start boost mode (extra amps, I guess) and it still took a long time. Plus pauses to let the battery recover.
Once it did fire, and I let it warm up, it's been perfect ever since. Just mad at me, I suppose... :rolleyes:

Yeah you can't leave this precious Hondas sitting around doing nothing for months. I recall last time I went O/S for a month, it took alittle more than usual crank time to get her fired. But this time I got worried due to the charging issues beforehand and might have blown something. This morning, usual choke, crank crank bang - fired up no problems... however:

Update: Stator tests show a bad phase. no continuity, resistance is within spec, but VAC output on one phase is 1 volt, compared to the 21, 21 (idle) to 64, 64 (5k rpm) :sad:

At least I know where I'm at. I'll be sending Josh an order soon me thinks.

Thanks everyone for your inputs, I'll update again when things are back to normal.

Update: Things are back to normal... well I hope so.

I let the battery sit while I waited for parts it gave a 12.4V reading before I started the bike.
It started, and charging voltage was 14.8V. A little high than I am used to seeing, but I wondered if this was because of the low state of the battery.
Should it normalise (lower) as the battery gains a bit back?

Anyway, I'm off for a ride now, will see where it's at when I get home.

My many thanks to Joshua (Tightwad) for an easy, hassle free, plug and play upgrade. :fing02:

Slightly bad news... stopped to get fuel, after bout half an hours ride... bike won't start.
Had to push start her which was successful.
Manage to ride another half hour, no problems.
Got home, tried to start her hot... no go.

This albeit, was the old battery.
Will try new one in the morning.

Really hope this was the problem.

[image: View Post]Vee-Ef-Ar, on 09 May 2012 - 04:29 AM, said:

Really hope this was the problem.

And it was... new battery is charging at a solid 14.3V
I even think it runs smoother and more responsive.
Starts like lightning from the V4 gods. :tour:

Who knows... thanks again.