Help!

Hello all,

I'm about 680 miles into a very long trip, currently in Greensboro, NC heading down to Key West.

At any rate, I've developed a problem, I think. Six or seven times today the bike wouldn't shift into first. It runs fine (got 47mpg all day!), but this is nagging me. I can find neutral just fine, but sometimes it seems to be stuck there. I have to pull the clutch lever two or three times and step on the shifter with a little extra gusto to get it to go. Other times, it feels like it's in first-and-a-half gear. Technically, it's in second, I guess, but it's sluggish and stepping down finds neither neutral or first.

Did I fry my clutch in the three stop and go's on I-81 yesterday? Or, does it sound more like a gearbox thing. Something tells me it's the clutch.

Also, what might happen, theoretically, if I continued riding it awhile until I got it to a friend's garage (300 miles or so) with a knackered clutch?

Thanks!

Doubt you fried the clutch that easy. Assuming it's not slipping from your post, which is one thing that will happen with age and wear.
Check the clutch fluid level. I'd guess you'll be OK to finish the 300 miles if it's not making nasty sounds.

Um, I'm thinking mine sometimes doesn't want to go into first from neutral. I let the clutch lever maybe 1/2" or inch out from the grip, and it will then click in real nice.

Just a stab in the dark, but try changing the oil. Also see if you fluid clutch is behaving correctly. The throwing thing can get gummed up.

Good luck

Your idle may be off, which can be the cause as well.

Did you check your oil?  It does sound like a clutch issue.  I wouldn't be terribly concerned if the other transitions are good and you don't need 1st all that ofter.

Will it downshift into first as you roll up to a stop? Or does it not want to drop into first after stopping in neutral? When was the last time the clutch fluid was bled and new installed?

Had a V4 Sabre once I bought used. Thing was very hard to shift. Took off the rubber boots on the shit linkage and sprayed it down with WD40. Wiggled things around and sprayed some more. Worked like a charm from then on. Just a thought.

Good luck and let us know what solves the problem when you get it worked out.

Yes, checked the oil. I changed the oil before I left and the level hasn't changed at all. Clutch fluid looks alright, no change. No sign of any leakage.

Could be the clutch fluid is in need of change. Moisture in the fluid can start vaporizing when hot giving you mush lever. The fact that you have to pump the lever several times to get it to go into gear makes me wonder if this could be the problem. Could be air in the system as well.

One thing for sure, I and I imagine a lot of others are jealous of the trip you are making on your vfr! Hope you get it sorted and don't have to mess with it on the way back.

I fine the easyiest entry into first gear, at least when I've been moving, say approching a stop sign, is to slip it into first while it is still rolling, slowly. If it is getting sticky, try this to see if it becomes at least a little easier.

Very new user here but for what its worth it sounds like your clutch isn't engaging all the way. I was stuck in second or neutral a few times before i got mine squared away. Sounds simple but check your clutch lever. Anyway, I'm familiar with the anxiety this can cause. Just remember these bikes are tough so don't worry to much. You'll be ok!

If you can make it to Atlanta (you are probably heading down 95 instead) we can take a look at it here in the company of many other V4s.

Sounds like oil that it doesn't like or the fluid in the clutch needs to be bled/changed.

pm me if you are heading this way.

How many miles on the bike. I had to change mine at 76,000miles. It was shifting sticky like you describe and on some occasions felt like it may be slipping slightly. Changing the oil seemed to help it for a while before it got scary like it was going to quit working. Don't use cheap oil and don't leave it in too long. Changing the clutch is pretty easy but there are some secrets to it. I installed my stack in backwards which doesn't work. Had to do it all over again. I also took a file to the clutch basket arms because the disk plates tend to create notches in them causing the plates to chatter and not work properly. The basket is aluminum so some light filing made it smooth like new. Soak your friction disc in oil the night before installing. Those are the secret. And make sure the skinny friction plate faces in toward the motor or you get to do it all over again.

[image: View Post]VFR4Lee, on 25 May 2012 - 05:46 PM, said:

Um, I'm thinking mine sometimes doesn't want to go into first from neutral. I let the clutch lever maybe 1/2" or inch out from the grip, and it will then click in real nice.
Between VFR4Lee's suggestion, and adjusting the idle you should be able to get it in 1st....... another thing could be a bent shifting fork........ but I'd try the idle before taking things apart.

If the clutch is not fully disengaging then it will be difficult to shift into first, or any gear at a stop.  First becomes a standout problem because that's typically the only gear you may try to shift into while stopped.
Does it shift OK when idling and on the center stand?  If so, see if you can get a bit more throw on the clutch by adjusting the lever outwards a setting or two just for testing.  If this works better, you probably need to bleed the clutch and/or clean out the master and slave actuators, and/or rebuild the master and slave cylinders.  If it doesn't work, you may have a defective clutch for a number of reasons but basically, something causing the clutch to drag from not fully disengaging.  If the disengaging mechanism ie the hydraulic circuit, is working properly then you need to address the clutch itself.

Thanks for all the replies, guys. I went ahead and changed the oil (in the parking lot of an Autozone, he he), and that seems to have helped. I made it to Savannah, GA with nary an issue. When I find a little more friendly place I'll bleed the clutch line, too. And, thanks BCmrider for that test procedure. Adjusting the clutch lever helped a bit too.

And, just for completeness' sake: the bike just turned 18k miles. I can't imagine a honda is having transmission (shift fork, etc) problems this early in life. Hence the oil change.

Now, if I can just get around Beryl, the tropical storm, I should be fine.

Great news! Have a feeling now that a good clutch bleed will put the finishing touches on it. Glad you are having a good trip. Here's to more safe miles traveled!

huzza!

[image: View Post]booker82, on 26 May 2012 - 05:00 PM, said:

Thanks for all the replies, guys. I went ahead and changed the oil (in the parking lot of an Autozone, he he), and that seems to have helped. I made it to Savannah, GA with nary an issue. When I find a little more friendly place I'll bleed the clutch line, too. And, thanks BCmrider for that test procedure. Adjusting the clutch lever helped a bit too.

And, just for completeness' sake: the bike just turned 18k miles. I can't imagine a honda is having transmission (shift fork, etc) problems this early in life. Hence the oil change.

Now, if I can just get around Beryl, the tropical storm, I should be fine.
It doesn't take long to bend a shifting fork if someone keeps forcing it, just some clutch and the right rpm will make it work.

There must be several Vfrd members in Georgia or thereabouts with a garage and tools to pop you in and bleed the clutch. It's a one-beer job.

C'mon somebody step up and get the man's hydraulics fixed up!

From Savannah he is closer to Jacksonville, FL and heading South on I-95 it sounds.

I know we have some great guys in FL.

Alright, I'm resurrecting this thread. I'm now in Crescent City, CA. The bike, until yesterday, was running just fine after the oil change. In fact, I changed the oil again while in New Mexico, along with a clutch bleed and other general stuff.

But, most of my riding was Interstate (sixth gear, not a lot of shifting). Now that I'm in the mountains, doing a lot of shifting, the problem is back, and now a little worse.

Here's the deal, it's getting harder to downshift at all, not just first. I find that if I'm carrying some momentum, it's not too bad, I just have to be deliberate with my boot. However, when I've just come to a rapid stop (i.e., I've panic stopped because the stupid PT Cruiser in the other lane has decided to turn in front of me), it's very difficult to downshift. In fact, the only way I've found to do it, is to apply pressure to the shift lever, release the clutch slowly to about halfway, and then clunk, it downshifts. Repeat this process until you reach first. This is time consuming (and annoying, apparently, to the Chevy that was behind me). This happens at stop signs, and, once today on the PCH, during a particularly slow switchback.

I'm starting to suspect the shift forks, now. Any thoughts?

Possibly a burr on the clutch release shaft that runs through the clutch? Throw-out bearing? leaking slave cylinder?
GL
J

Alright. I've found a wonderful fellow bike rider in Tacoma, WA, and I'm staying at his house while I look things over a little more in depth. I spoke with a (seemingly) very knowledgeable Honda tech and he pointed out that the gearshift linkage might be causing a hangup (busted spring or something), so I should look into that. He also seemed to rule out the clutch, given the decent quality shifting I'm getting everywhere else. He also said that if it's not the clutch, and if it's not the linkage, then it's likely something like a shift fork, which requires a complete teardown.

So I've taken apart the gearshift linkage, and all appears hunky-dory. Good tension in the springs, straight and true, etc. etc.

So now I'm at a loss. If I believe the Honda guy, I've gotta go opening up my engine. If I don't, well, then I don't know what to think. All I know is that this problem seems to be progressive (it was a great bike at home, and the downshifting has gotten progressively worse in the past 4500 miles). My wife is now (rightfully, I think) concerned about me taking the bike to Alaska, on the off chance that something really does break and I'm somewhere in the Yukon without a ride.

So, to recap: I've changed the oil (twice), bled the clutch, inspected the slave cylinder and gear linkage, double checked the chain and sprockets, adjusted the clutch lever, checked out the clutch lifter rod, and everything has been great looking.

So, ideas?

I have a nagging feeling that this is something simple, yet elusive.  What was the condition of clutch fluid when you bled it?  From what I saw, you said you were going to do it, but didn't tell us what you found.  You may be introducing air into the system somehow.  This maybe a stretch, but I'd look into this before I did any serious disassembly.

"He also seemed to rule out the clutch, given the decent quality shifting I'm getting everywhere else."

Is this true?  "Here's the deal, it's getting harder to downshift at all, not just first" leads me to think otherwise.

I thought BCmrider's post had some good steps to it.  Clutch's get the use when the bike isn't moving, and that seems to be when you have the most problems.  The fact that it's not as much of an issue when your at speed indicates that your shift forks should be alright.

I hope this helps.

One thing is certain: NO Sequential Gearbox will shift more than a gear or two (if you're lucky) at a standstill. So if you panic stop in 6th, you'll need to slightly release the clutch between each gear.

I know you changed and bled the clutch line. Are you sure it's bled completely? How about the actual clutch master? Could need a rebuild.

I don't know why this worked, but it did.

I took apart the gearshift linkage, and checked all that out. Looked great. When I was buttoning everything back up, though, I noticed that I had two rubber pieces that didn't seem to belong. And, they looked like they had sheared in two.

Turns out, the rubber damper thing on the countershaft sprocket had become two rubber damper things. After some quick research, I reinstalled the sprocket without the dampers, changed the oil (again) and double checked chain tension.

It shifts as it should. Or, as I expect it should, whatever that means. I can't figure out why that would be the case, unless the rubber bits were really binding up the countershaft, but hey, it's shifting right and I'm in Canada. I'm not going to complain or over think it.

Hooray!

This thread needs some pictures, jealous of your ride problems or not.

Well that's interesting.

Have a look at your chain. Does it have side plates shaped like a figure-8, or are they oval shaped? The stock rubber damper on the countershaft sprocket is designed for the figure-8 shaped links.

Glad the bike is working ok now. Have a good rest of your trip!!!

Are you confident enough to head for Alaska? I hope your problem is solved. Interesting solution. You've certainly spend a good amount of time resolving this. But Alaska is large and your wife is properly concerned. Listen to her.

And I'd like to offer a tribute to all the help our VFRD family can provide to a person in distress. I've experienced it first hand and it is truely inspiring.

Good luck and good riding.