I'm goin to look at a new 2010 with a DCT, I'm wondering if any of you guy's that have one actually like it or not. And what do you like or dislike?
Thanks.
Thanks.
Looking at a new 1200 DCT, Got ?'s
23 posts Started 8 Aug 2012 Last recovered post 14 Aug 2012 Wayback Machine snapshot 16 Aug 2012
Put over 12,000 miles in less then a year on mine. Outstanding bike no negatives. It will cover vast distances in a heartbeat. Wish they would bring the crosstourer here.
Though it hurts to admit, I'll be brutally honest: I don't like the DCT enough to justify it over the standard. And to be even more frank, I don't especially like this iteration of the VFR. It does what I want it to, which is travel long distances and act like a sportbike when I get there. But most of the time it's a porker that can't make up its mind on its identity. The DCT is a fun novelty but not worth the extra $ in my opinion, unless you're a ham-fisted oaf who can't rev-match. The fact that you can't PCV the DCT is a MAJOR drawback. That, the lousy fuel mileage & capacity, the weight, and the lack of personality are the major drawbacks to me. It's a bike that's a tool...meaning I've made no connection with it in 10,000 miles/6 months, despite some epic travels and many mods. Maybe I'm just too young for this bike...but I constantly regret not buying a Multistrada. I'm sure some will be irritated by that assessment...flame away if you please.
I would never "flame" you but I find it funny how vastly different we humans see and interpret things. I bought the manual shift in April 2010 and like you, was interested but unwilling to pay any more for the DCT. I do know that there are alot of people that absolutely love their DCT though. The only mods I have made are the Heli-bars, Throttlemeister, CrampBuster, and PR3's. ( I didn't like the o.e.m.'s very much at all).
It definitely stings a little bit knowing what I paid for mine and what one can be bought for now but I still love the bike and enjoy it everytime I ride. Some people make a big deal out of the "flat spot" in 1st and 2nd gear but I've never considered it that big of a deal. At least with mine, to even call it a "flat spot" is misleading. The bike still accelerates like mad and for me, has plenty of power and then some in any gear.
I "connected" with mine before I made it home from the dealership. People are just different...plain and simple.
It definitely stings a little bit knowing what I paid for mine and what one can be bought for now but I still love the bike and enjoy it everytime I ride. Some people make a big deal out of the "flat spot" in 1st and 2nd gear but I've never considered it that big of a deal. At least with mine, to even call it a "flat spot" is misleading. The bike still accelerates like mad and for me, has plenty of power and then some in any gear.
I "connected" with mine before I made it home from the dealership. People are just different...plain and simple.
I love my DCT. Lately I've been using the manual shift lately. It shifrs perfectly and when I want. Get aggressive with the downshift and it rp matches for you. Stick it in D and cruise forever. Getting ready to pass either hit S or manually down shift. I can't burn the tire off from a dead stop but they don't last very long anyway. Yeah I love it.
I have a 2012 manual clutch....it has the EFI map updated from the 2010, but other than that they are about the same. The DCT just makes me think of it as a $15,000.00 scooter. i'm smart enough to manage my own shift points. As far as liking or disliking the bike, its my third VFR (83, 97, 2012) but it reminds me more of my 86 FJ1200 or my brothers XS 11 than anything. Smooth, strong, stable, gobs of torque, nice sounding ad plenty fast. If I wanted a pure sport bike, or an adventure tourer I would have bought one. Honestly its scary fast, will do 160, the 1st and 2nd gear shenanigins were taken care of with the Power Commander and Slip On. Its easily the nicest bike I have ever owned. Only complaint is the mileage....I averaged about 36 miles to gallon from Vegas to Monterey and back. Kinda low coming off my FZ1. Hope this helps.
[image: View Post]dadofseven, on 08 August 2012 - 07:22 PM, said:
I have a 2012 manual clutch....it has the EFI map updated from the 2010, but other than that they are about the same. The DCT just makes me think of it as a $15,000.00 scooter. i'm smart enough to manage my own shift points..... Hope this helps.Actually this comment is not very helpful as it shows you don't understand what DCT is all about. Yes it has auto mode if one chooses, but manual mode is there for the purpose you stated. I personally use manual mode 100% of the time.
Sorry you feel that way. He was asking for thoughts, I gave him mine. I understand plenty. I rode both, a 2010 DCT and a 2012 manual. The DCT in manual is still an automatic with a paddle shifter. No difference.
[image: View Post]dadofseven, on 08 August 2012 - 11:22 PM, said:
...... The DCT in manual is still an automatic with a paddle shifter. No difference.So if the DCT in manual mode is still an "automatic", why then does it not shift automatically? What does "automatic" refer to if not shifting? :wacko:
[image: View Post]Solomoto, on 09 August 2012 - 12:45 AM, said:
[image: View Post]dadofseven, on 08 August 2012 - 11:22 PM, said:
...... The DCT in manual is still an automatic with a paddle shifter. No difference.So if the DCT in manual mode is still an "automatic", why then does it not shift automatically? What does "automatic" refer to if not shifting? :wacko:
You'll never convince some its not an automatic. I think trickle down tech from formula 1 is cool. And its banned from motogp because they don't race scooters. And Honda's last big advantage was a manual version that accomplished the same thing. Yeah the best thing we can do is switch back to two stroke motors with terrible powerbands. Heck go back to drum brakes and carburetors. I forgot point ignitions and spark plugs that only last 5000 miles. Yeah and how about we just go out and buy Harleys. Everyone knows their the best because they use 100 year old engine technology. Thats right pushrods are the proven tech.
Honda gave a choice that is precedent making. I chose the higher tech. But then I've always been a geek. And it pays pretty well.
I really enjoy mine. As a daily commuter the d@s option for shifting is great in stop and go traffic. And when I want to pretend I am a racer I shift with my thumb and index. YeeeHaaawww!!!
Thanks Guy's for all the comments. Is there a noticible difference between the 2010 DCT and the 2012 DCT? I have heard that there were some updates. I have a chance to pick up a 2010 DCT for $11500 OTD thats why I was looking into it, still not sure i'd like it as I have never rode a M/C with this type of transmission. All the dealers that I have spoken to rave about it. I'm still trying to make a deal on a 6 speed down in Southern Ca. If that comes together at the right price, i'll get that one. But if not i'll head up north and pick up the 2010DCT.
Has anyone had any issues with their 2010 DCT? Is there anything that I should look out for, if I go that route?
Thanks.
P.S. I have owned three VFR's and '87, '05, and '06 ABS and loved them all.
Has anyone had any issues with their 2010 DCT? Is there anything that I should look out for, if I go that route?
Thanks.
P.S. I have owned three VFR's and '87, '05, and '06 ABS and loved them all.
I guess I should add my own experiences, I've more than 27K miles in the two years since new.
The DCT for '12 has a slightly different behavior when in auto shift mode compared to the '10, when doing a manual trigger shift during auto mode it will revert back to auto mode after a few seconds whereas the '10 will remain in manual mode after a manual shift. In this regard, the '12 mimics the behavior found in some DCT cars.
Overall, I've come to the conclusion that I would only want to buy DCT equipped bikes in the future as they become more prevalent. I haven't missed conventional manual shifting for a microsecond and when I get on my 98 VFR, I'm struck by how agricultural it is in comparison. I'd compare it to electric vs. kick starting; when electric starters first came on the scene the old die hards dissed it, but once you experienced electric you wonder how you had managed with kick starting before. One major by-product of the DCT is the fact that I no longer develop an aching left wrist after a long day in the saddle especially the twisties. On my 98 VFR, late in the day I start grimacing during each clutch cycle and often avoid doing clutch shifting when I'm moving which is not the best for mechanical longevity.
As mentioned above, I use manual mode 100% of the time since it just suits my tastes. Drive mode is too pedestrian and Sport mode is too aggressive when I'm not in the twisties so manual suits me best and I've come to just use it all the time. I especially love the auto throttle blipping during downshifting at speed which eliminates the need for a slipper clutch. The DCT at low rpm's is a bit mechanical and chatty, but it comes into it's own above 4K rpm and above 5K rpm nothing comes close to the buttery smooth, uninterrupted acceleration, and the auto blip on downshifting is positively mesmerizing.
The only nits I have are:
a) when the engine is cold the initial clutch engagement can be a bit grabby but only for the first engagement, thereafter it is smooth. It may be because the hydraulic circuits haven't completely come up to pressure. To get around this I sometimes will hold the front brake and apply the throttle until the rear end rises a bit, then let off after a second or two, this always eliminates that initial grabbiness when cold.
b) when the engine is hot, there are some occasions when the clutch engagement is somewhat non-linear and depends on how much throttle is applied from a stop. Applying a "sporty" amount of throttle is no problem but a small to moderate amount of throttle at slow take off speed is a little hesitant at times. I think the algorithm may be trying to figure out if you want to just doddle as in a u-turn or get up and go. I suspect this may be more of a throttling issue than a clutch issue, although they are both intertwined during clutch engagement.
So there you have it, my 0.02 cents worth. I suggest taking a test ride before you decide. Since you are in NorCal, I suggest visiting Hollister Honda (which used to be a Honda PowerHouse until just recently). They offer test rides on most bikes but since the recent change to a multiple brand dealer, give them a call to confirm first.
The DCT for '12 has a slightly different behavior when in auto shift mode compared to the '10, when doing a manual trigger shift during auto mode it will revert back to auto mode after a few seconds whereas the '10 will remain in manual mode after a manual shift. In this regard, the '12 mimics the behavior found in some DCT cars.
Overall, I've come to the conclusion that I would only want to buy DCT equipped bikes in the future as they become more prevalent. I haven't missed conventional manual shifting for a microsecond and when I get on my 98 VFR, I'm struck by how agricultural it is in comparison. I'd compare it to electric vs. kick starting; when electric starters first came on the scene the old die hards dissed it, but once you experienced electric you wonder how you had managed with kick starting before. One major by-product of the DCT is the fact that I no longer develop an aching left wrist after a long day in the saddle especially the twisties. On my 98 VFR, late in the day I start grimacing during each clutch cycle and often avoid doing clutch shifting when I'm moving which is not the best for mechanical longevity.
As mentioned above, I use manual mode 100% of the time since it just suits my tastes. Drive mode is too pedestrian and Sport mode is too aggressive when I'm not in the twisties so manual suits me best and I've come to just use it all the time. I especially love the auto throttle blipping during downshifting at speed which eliminates the need for a slipper clutch. The DCT at low rpm's is a bit mechanical and chatty, but it comes into it's own above 4K rpm and above 5K rpm nothing comes close to the buttery smooth, uninterrupted acceleration, and the auto blip on downshifting is positively mesmerizing.
The only nits I have are:
a) when the engine is cold the initial clutch engagement can be a bit grabby but only for the first engagement, thereafter it is smooth. It may be because the hydraulic circuits haven't completely come up to pressure. To get around this I sometimes will hold the front brake and apply the throttle until the rear end rises a bit, then let off after a second or two, this always eliminates that initial grabbiness when cold.
b) when the engine is hot, there are some occasions when the clutch engagement is somewhat non-linear and depends on how much throttle is applied from a stop. Applying a "sporty" amount of throttle is no problem but a small to moderate amount of throttle at slow take off speed is a little hesitant at times. I think the algorithm may be trying to figure out if you want to just doddle as in a u-turn or get up and go. I suspect this may be more of a throttling issue than a clutch issue, although they are both intertwined during clutch engagement.
So there you have it, my 0.02 cents worth. I suggest taking a test ride before you decide. Since you are in NorCal, I suggest visiting Hollister Honda (which used to be a Honda PowerHouse until just recently). They offer test rides on most bikes but since the recent change to a multiple brand dealer, give them a call to confirm first.
The 2012 also has traction control where the 10 has a pretty deep hole in first and second that disappears above 5000rpm. Both have pretty much the same effect of not letting you get squirrelley at low speeds. The 2012 puts out more torque at slow speeds because it will take it to the limit of traction and the hole is just a hole whether you have traction or not. The only change I would have wanted is to move the shift points in d 500 to 1000 rpm higher. The sport mode is great for very consistent 10000 rpm shifts. To get max velocity and shifting from a stop put the bike in sport then shift to manual. Whack the throttle and switch out of manual somewhere after 7 or 8 thousand rpm and keep the throttle pinned and it will shift at exactly redline. Hold till your sphincter puckers. Great fun
I finally made a decision, i'm staying with the six speed 2010 VFR1200. Going to pick it up tomorrow. I'll post some pic's when I get her home. :tour:
Hi Crazybrother,
I know you said you made your decision, but I thought I'd post my thoughts for anyone who reads this thread in the future. I have owned both models. My first VFR1200F was totaled when I was t-boned by a guy on his cell phone. I liked the bike so much, that I was going to by another VFR despite re-test riding the K1300, Hayabusa, Triumph ST and some other similar bikes. The dealer had both VFR models on the showroom floor and offered to let me ride them back to to back. I bought the dual clutch model and never looked back. I use mine in full manual mode 99% of the time. If I'm in bumper to bumper traffic it goes in to "d" mode for slow lane splitting.
Here are some facts and opinions from me for all the haters:
1. It's not a automatic transmission (torque converter). It's dual clutch, same thing that you find on a Lamborghini Gallardo, Porsche GT2 RS, Nissan GTR, Mitsubishi Evo MR, Ferrari 458, aston martin DB9, etc.... I could never shift my old VFR1200F as fast as I can shift this bike. Although Jugornot hit it on the head, you'll never convince some people.
2. I can wheelie my bike in third gear.
3. I can drag my knee and hang off this thing like I do on my SV650 track bike. I rode my VFR 1200FD several times at the streets of willow. Not as flickable as my SV650, but it was still a lot of fun!
4. The "flat" spot on my bike is less noticeable than my first VFR1200F. I don't know why maybe a later ECU version?
5. The bike maybe heavier than the VFR800 on paper, but my friend's '07 RWB model feels more top heavy.
6. Wife says the dual clutch is smoother and we don't clank helments anymore when I shift gears.
7. The stock seat is comfortable and grippy as long as you are wearing leathers.
8. Stock suspension is fine for street and canyon riding if you are not a heavy person (I weigh about 160lb with gear). I am familiar with a good set up as I have a traxxion dynamics / penske set up on my sv650 track bike.
9. I'm not disabled or old and feable. I have all my appendages, I'm in my mid 30s and in great shape!
10. I own several vintage Italian and Spanish scooters (all with manual four speed twist grip clutches). The VFR1200FD is not a scooter. Comparing it to a scooter is f*cking retarded. It is not even close.
11. It has a small gas tank and it's fast. While it might not be a CBR, it's a f*cking sport bike with bags not a sport tourer. Think hayabusa or K1300 not Goldwing or ST1300
You can't go wrong with either bike, but DCT is my favorite! :tour:
Peace,
Stinky_Finger
I know you said you made your decision, but I thought I'd post my thoughts for anyone who reads this thread in the future. I have owned both models. My first VFR1200F was totaled when I was t-boned by a guy on his cell phone. I liked the bike so much, that I was going to by another VFR despite re-test riding the K1300, Hayabusa, Triumph ST and some other similar bikes. The dealer had both VFR models on the showroom floor and offered to let me ride them back to to back. I bought the dual clutch model and never looked back. I use mine in full manual mode 99% of the time. If I'm in bumper to bumper traffic it goes in to "d" mode for slow lane splitting.
Here are some facts and opinions from me for all the haters:
1. It's not a automatic transmission (torque converter). It's dual clutch, same thing that you find on a Lamborghini Gallardo, Porsche GT2 RS, Nissan GTR, Mitsubishi Evo MR, Ferrari 458, aston martin DB9, etc.... I could never shift my old VFR1200F as fast as I can shift this bike. Although Jugornot hit it on the head, you'll never convince some people.
2. I can wheelie my bike in third gear.
3. I can drag my knee and hang off this thing like I do on my SV650 track bike. I rode my VFR 1200FD several times at the streets of willow. Not as flickable as my SV650, but it was still a lot of fun!
4. The "flat" spot on my bike is less noticeable than my first VFR1200F. I don't know why maybe a later ECU version?
5. The bike maybe heavier than the VFR800 on paper, but my friend's '07 RWB model feels more top heavy.
6. Wife says the dual clutch is smoother and we don't clank helments anymore when I shift gears.
7. The stock seat is comfortable and grippy as long as you are wearing leathers.
8. Stock suspension is fine for street and canyon riding if you are not a heavy person (I weigh about 160lb with gear). I am familiar with a good set up as I have a traxxion dynamics / penske set up on my sv650 track bike.
9. I'm not disabled or old and feable. I have all my appendages, I'm in my mid 30s and in great shape!
10. I own several vintage Italian and Spanish scooters (all with manual four speed twist grip clutches). The VFR1200FD is not a scooter. Comparing it to a scooter is f*cking retarded. It is not even close.
11. It has a small gas tank and it's fast. While it might not be a CBR, it's a f*cking sport bike with bags not a sport tourer. Think hayabusa or K1300 not Goldwing or ST1300
You can't go wrong with either bike, but DCT is my favorite! :tour:
Peace,
Stinky_Finger
Well, I made it home late last night... 533 miles later :tour: After about an hour on the bike, I felt very comfortable. I really do love this bike, it's completely different from the last two sixth gen's that I owned. Gobbs of torque that seems to never end and very easy to ride. I now understand what all you guy's are saying how it feels lighter when riding, it truly does.
[image: Posted Image]
At the Dealership.
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Getting ready to go.
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Stop for a break and dinner.
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Finally Home.
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I think Faith likes her.
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Dogs not impressed...
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Total miles to home.
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![[image: Posted Image]](http://i227.photobucket.com/albums/dd103/crazybrother1963/VFR%201200/2012-08-11113821.jpg){kind=link}
At the Dealership.
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![[image: Posted Image]](http://i227.photobucket.com/albums/dd103/crazybrother1963/VFR%201200/2012-08-11114217.jpg){kind=link}
Getting ready to go.
[image: Posted Image]
![[image: Posted Image]](http://i227.photobucket.com/albums/dd103/crazybrother1963/VFR%201200/2012-08-11174301.jpg){kind=link}
Stop for a break and dinner.
[image: Posted Image]
![[image: Posted Image]](http://i227.photobucket.com/albums/dd103/crazybrother1963/VFR%201200/2012-08-12095807.jpg){kind=link}
Finally Home.
[image: Posted Image]
![[image: Posted Image]](http://i227.photobucket.com/albums/dd103/crazybrother1963/VFR%201200/2012-08-12110204.jpg){kind=link}
I think Faith likes her.
[image: Posted Image]
![[image: Posted Image]](http://i227.photobucket.com/albums/dd103/crazybrother1963/VFR%201200/2012-08-12110257.jpg){kind=link}
Dogs not impressed...
[image: Posted Image]
![[image: Posted Image]](http://i227.photobucket.com/albums/dd103/crazybrother1963/VFR%201200/2012-08-12170043.jpg){kind=link}
Total miles to home.
Over 500 miles on the first day. :fing02: Good man!
Congratulations on the new bike!
Everyone should ride one at last once in there life....... even if it just a demo ride...
Everyone should ride one at last once in there life....... even if it just a demo ride...
Snif, snif....... I had to fight a tear back looking at those photos remembering my first day aboard the 1200. No other bike hit me like my 1200 did on the first ride home from the dealer. Enjoy!
[image: View Post]crazybrother, on 12 August 2012 - 08:14 PM, said:
Well, I made it home late last night... 533 miles later :tour: After about an hour on the bike, I felt very comfortable. I really do love this bike, it's completely different from the last two sixth gen's that I owned. Gobbs of torque that seems to never end and very easy to ride. I now understand what all you guy's are saying how it feels lighter when riding, it truly does.So, which one did you get? DCT or manual?
Btw, you beat me, I only got 60 miles on my first day. :fing02:
[image: View Post]VfrColumbus, on 13 August 2012 - 09:19 PM, said:
[image: View Post]crazybrother, on 12 August 2012 - 08:14 PM, said:
Well, I made it home late last night... 533 miles later :tour: After about an hour on the bike, I felt very comfortable. I really do love this bike, it's completely different from the last two sixth gen's that I owned. Gobbs of torque that seems to never end and very easy to ride. I now understand what all you guy's are saying how it feels lighter when riding, it truly does.So, which one did you get? DCT or manual?
Btw, you beat me, I only got 60 miles on my first day. :fing02:
I got the manual (six speed).
Rode her today, now she has 700 miles and just did the first oil change. Wow was that easy, I really don't miss my sixth gen at all... This bike keeps getting better every time I ride it. I ran into some BMW guy's today and they commented on how beautiful my VFR 1200 was :tongue:
Congratulations on the new 7th gen!!
I think your dog is telling you that the klingon hatchet style OEM muffler should be changed out asap to something that looks better!..... It just does not look right on an otherwise impressively styled bike.....
Beck
95 VFR
I think your dog is telling you that the klingon hatchet style OEM muffler should be changed out asap to something that looks better!..... It just does not look right on an otherwise impressively styled bike.....
Beck
95 VFR
End of thread · 23 posts recovered Wayback Machine snapshot 16 Aug 2012