Clutch - Vibration

Hi all,

I picked up a "new to me" 2010 VFR1200 a week or so ago and notice that when the bike is in neutral and the cluth isn't pulled in there is what I consider to be a significant amount of vibration/chatter that can be felt through the bars, and possibly footpegs.

The clutch seams to work fine, no slipping, grabbing etc.

Is this considered typical?

Thanks!

What do you mean by chatter? is it a sound or something you feel on the bike? With the clutch not pulled in (engaged) and the engine running, I couldn't see why it would chatter (I'm meaning the sound in this case). That particular chatter might be coming from something else. Could it be something to do with the timing chain instead??

If it's something you are feeling on the bike like a stumbling or a stutter, then it could just be a minor tuning issue, like maybe too low an idle setting??....

Beck

95 VFR

Thanks for the reply.

It's a sound that I hear when the clutch is not pulled in (engaged) associated with a vibration felt through the bars that appears to be in sync with the sound.

If it were the timing chain, would I not feel and hear the same sound regardless of if the clutch was engaged or not?

Jim.

That is decidedly odd.

I will have to check mine... I do know mechanical noise at idle is more apparent with the clutch lever out in neutral, but I have never noticed a vibration associated with it.

Taking a bit of a ride tonight, I will pay special attention and let you know.

It could be that I'm overly sensitive to the vibration. I'm curious to know if you notice it now that your looking for it.

Thanks!

I spent about an hour and a half on the VFR tonight.

I did notice a very small additional vibe... Literally small enough to not notice until now.

My gut (which is prodigious) is telling me that it's likely nothing more than the free-spinning V4 lope.

Oh, and by the way... :worthlesswithoutpics:

Lets see it! :tour:

Thanks for taking the time to do this!

Sorry if from now on you notice it. lol.

P.S - I'll get a pic up over the weekend :)

No sweat. Put 400 some miles on it today.

I am fairly sure now I know what it is you are talking about, and my thoughts are that its normal. Just a v-4 lope. Take that opinion for what it's worth.

i have noticed the same thing on my 2010 vfr...same vibe has been there since brand new...I have 3800 miles on it now. It goes away when I pull in the clutch lever. Very noticeable if I sit there and cycle the clutch lever in neutral. Not very noticeable if I just use the clutch like normal. I wrote it off as "normal" a long time ago. Keep us posted if anyone finds out that this is a problem.

I too have the same issues on my 2010. I took it back to the dealer shortly after buying it to have it checked out. It wasn't bothering me, but I wanted to make sure that I wouldn't cause damage by ignoring it. Everything seemed fine and was told it was normal vibration in the ? clutch basket. 3K miles later it still does this but I haven't had any functional problems with clutch.

I have 2 clutches and they don't rattle so I don't know what to tell ya. :biggrin:

Seems to be a VFR trademark. My '06 has had that 'chatter' for the last three years. Was told it is the clutch basket as well. So far so good, 135,000 km.

Brian

Obviously you guys didnt come from Harleys, the more it vibrates, the better them guys like it!

Honda has had clunky clutch baskets for 34 years since the DOHC CB750 series was released and the 79/80 CBX baskets were just as clunky.

They used rubber dampers instead of springs and the rubber gets brittle and shrinks causing the clunking noises.

I do not know what the VFR1200F clutch basket looks like yet but, I will when I open mine to change the gouged and ruined cover from from driveway.

My 06 vfr clutch , is the quitest Ive ever had on any bike, the basket doesnt even have any notching at all.

spud786

Obviously you guys didnt come from Harleys, the more it vibrates, the better them guys like it!

uumm nope.,,, as custom HD builder i can attest that the factory bikes SUCK!!!!!! :dry:

thats why people spend millions and millions fixing them up!

clearly the vfr is so awesome no one needs to make anything for it :laugh:

Don't know if it's relevant, but I recently got an '03 ST1300 and I notice the same thing with it. Not too worried, but it does seem more prevalent than my '99 800 or my '01 51.

My friend, who used to be a motorcycle mechanic, noticed this trait right away and had to point it out to me.

He really didn't, and still doesn't, like this latest VFR, and used this strange clutch noise among other arguments to help convince me NOT to buy a VFR. His other arguments included: the cheap/clattery sound of the motor at idle, the bike's lack of mechanical sophistication, (-why single cams? no traction control?), excessive weight, overly complicated fairing design, fragile paint, high price, etc... The fact that Honda was having a hard time with their CBR1000RR's at the time, (2008's and '09's especially), didn't boost buying-confidence, either...

I ride an FZ1 and an older CBR1000RR, so it seemed like the latest VFR would be the perfect combo of the two. I did test ride it and liked it, but let him talk me out of it, (-and the VFR was a lot of money even before you looked at purchasing the luggage).

PhoenixMy friend, who used to be a motorcycle mechanic, noticed this trait right away and had to point it out to me.

He really didn't, and still doesn't, like this latest VFR, and used this strange clutch noise among other arguments to help convince me NOT to buy a VFR. His other arguments included: the cheap/clattery sound of the motor at idle, the bike's lack of mechanical sophistication, (-why single cams? no traction control?), excessive weight, overly complicated fairing design, fragile paint, high price, etc... The fact that Honda was having a hard time with their CBR1000RR's at the time, (2008's and '09's especially), didn't boost buying-confidence, either...

I ride an FZ1 and an older CBR1000RR, so it seemed like the latest VFR would be the perfect combo of the two. I did test ride it and liked it, but let him talk me out of it, (-and the VFR was a lot of money even before you looked at purchasing the luggage).

You let your friend talk you out of buying a certain bike based on his lack of knowledge of the bike. When he said "lack of mechanical sophistication" was he referring to the bike? :smile:

Tamworth

PhoenixMy friend, who used to be a motorcycle mechanic, noticed this trait right away and had to point it out to me.

He really didn't, and still doesn't, like this latest VFR, and used this strange clutch noise among other arguments to help convince me NOT to buy a VFR. His other arguments included: the cheap/clattery sound of the motor at idle, the bike's lack of mechanical sophistication, (-why single cams? no traction control?), excessive weight, overly complicated fairing design, fragile paint, high price, etc... The fact that Honda was having a hard time with their CBR1000RR's at the time, (2008's and '09's especially), didn't boost buying-confidence, either...

I ride an FZ1 and an older CBR1000RR, so it seemed like the latest VFR would be the perfect combo of the two. I did test ride it and liked it, but let him talk me out of it, (-and the VFR was a lot of money even before you looked at purchasing the luggage).

You let your friend talk you out of buying a certain bike based on his lack of knowledge of the bike. When he said "lack of mechanical sophistication" was he referring to the bike? :smile:

The main reason I let him talk me out of the VFR was because it was a lot of money, and I'd lose a boat-load on the ones I already owned, (-and have spent $$ on over the years).

He felt the VFR was far too expensive for what it was and that its motor was agricultural, (-amongst other things). He felt Honda should've built a V-4 with double overhead cams that were preferably gear driven, (like his previous bike--an RC51).

After certain work experiences he left Honda altogether and bought a crossplane R1. A pretty unique bike that he felt was fairly priced, (-he spent 11,500 for a new non-current '09 in 2010).

In the end, I'm glad I kept my bikes. Honestly, I still haven't gotten my moneys worth out of them, (the FZ has 50,000ish kms, and the CBR 10,000kms).

And even though I still like the VFR concept, and that the VFR's price has been lowered a bit...I dunno... It would be nice to own a bike that "could do it all" but then there's the small tank range, the weird noise when the clutch is pulled, the limited power in the early gears, the insulting $300.00 centre stand, etc...

The static bike photos were taken in Spring 2012. The other pic is of my wife in Pennsylvania back in 2009.

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Tamworth

And your friend is a " motorcycle mechanic"? Uhm, very interesting.

I hope the maintenance of your bikes is made by someone else :laugh:

Phoenix

The main reason I let him talk me out of the VFR was because it was a lot of money, and I'd lose a boat-load on the ones I already owned, (-and have spent $$ on over the years).

He felt the VFR was far too expensive for what it was and that its motor was agricultural, (-amongst other things). He felt Honda should've built a V-4 with double overhead cams that were preferably gear driven, (like his previous bike--an RC51).

After certain work experiences he left Honda altogether and bought a crossplane R1. A pretty unique bike that he felt was fairly priced, (-he spent 11,500 for a new non-current '09 in 2010).

In the end, I'm glad I kept my bikes. Honestly, I still haven't gotten my moneys worth out of them, (the FZ has 50,000ish kms, and the CBR 10,000kms).

And even though I still like the VFR concept, and that the VFR's price has been lowered a bit...I dunno... It would be nice to own a bike that "could do it all" but then there's the small tank range, the weird noise when the clutch is pulled, the limited power in the early gears, the insulting $300.00 centre stand, etc...

The static bike photos were taken in Spring 2012. The other pic is of my wife in Pennsylvania back in 2009.

TamworthNow we've gone from the original poster who noticed a bit more noise and vibration when the clutch is out in neutral, which is normal for all bikes, to "a weired noise when the clutch is pulled" Never heard anyone bring up that one. Your friend doesn't understand engines if he thinks you need double overhead cams and gear drive. The single cam works perfectly and allows the engine to be smaller than the 800 and produce 60 more HP

ilprofessore

And your friend is a " motorcycle mechanic"? Uhm, very interesting.

I hope the maintenance of your bikes is made by someone else :laugh:

As a mechanic he had access to information that your average owner wouldn't typically know. Not specifically about the VFR so much, because that's around the time he left the field, but about other Honda's for sure.

As far as being a mechanic goes, he was/is a very careful/thoughtful one. All the sportbike riders that went to his dealership wanted him specifically to work on their bikes. He now works in a different field making a lot more money.

You may not agree with his opinions about the VFR, but I guess time will tell. Are there many high-mileage VFR's on this forum now? Does the bike consume oil, (ala CBR1000RR?)--do the pistons scuff the inside of the cylinders? Has this clutch noise developed into something worse? If the bike has proven reliable, I could still give it a chance in the future--unless Yamaha does something crazy like build a crossplane FZ1...?

As far as my bikes are concerned, all of the mods and regular maintenance have been done by my friend, (-except oil changes which I can -barely- manage). And he's never charged me a dime--I've tried to pay him, too. You couldn't ask for a better friend.

FZ1:

-he installed two aftermarket horns and sautered every wire connection,

-installed Ohlins shock, and Ohlins fork springs,

-braided front lines,

-installed full exhaust and jet kit, (which required drilling a hole in the carbs!),

-installed various other parts, (steering damper is coming),

-(most) tire changed tires, done valve adjustments, all the routine stuff...

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CBR:

-he installed Ohlins,

-heli-bars,

-braided lines all-round,

-TSR clutch slave,

-rear-sets,

-engine covers, and other parts,

-tire changes, routine maintenance, etc...

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Tamworth

Phoenix

TamworthNow we've gone from the original poster who noticed a bit more noise and vibration when the clutch is out in neutral, which is normal for all bikes, to "a weired noise when the clutch is pulled" Never heard anyone bring up that one. Your friend doesn't understand engines if he thinks you need double overhead cams and gear drive. The single cam works perfectly and allows the engine to be smaller than the 800 and produce 60 more HP

That's probably me just getting confused trying to convey what I experienced---not my friend. If anything, he is much more precise than I am. I rode the bike back in 2010, and that's when he pointed out the "noise" to me. I was pretty oblivious to it until he pointed it out, and just happy to be taking the VFR out for a spin.

Listen, I'm not trying to aggravate anyone. I'm a Honda owner, too. But these machines aren't perfect. I don't think any of them are. Even my CBR needed a new stator under warranty, and my FZ had a rod bearing failure. I don't take these things personally, though.

If I were to drop 15,000 + tax + luggage on a VFR, I'd want to know as much about it as possible, though. For not much more money one could buy a nice car.

I can agree that for the new 1200 engine there is not sufficient information concerning the reliability (up to now the maximum mileage is about 35k miles, here in Italy), but this is not a reason to define it as "agricultural". It is a quite sofisticated engine and the single cam is an advantage for several reasons.

For example, your friend thinks that the engine of Honda CRF is "agricultural"?

The VFR 1200 is not a perfect bike, especially the m.y. 2010-2011, but with few modifications it come very close to be (in its segment, clearly).

Phoenix

ilprofessore

You may not agree with his opinions about the VFR, but I guess time will tell. Are there many high-mileage VFR's on this forum now? Does the bike consume oil, (ala CBR1000RR?)--do the pistons scuff the inside of the cylinders? Has this clutch noise developed into something worse? If the bike has proven reliable, I could still give it a chance in the future--unless Yamaha does something crazy like build a crossplane FZ1...?

ilprofessoreI can agree that for the new 1200 engine there is not sufficient information concerning the reliability (up to now the maximum mileage is about 35k miles, here in Italy), but this is not a reason to define it as "agricultural". It is a quite sofisticated engine and the single cam is an advantage for several reasons.

For example, your friend thinks that the engine of Honda CRF is "agricultural"?

The VFR 1200 is not a perfect bike, especially the m.y. 2010-2011, but with few modifications it come very close to be (in its segment, clearly).

I like the VFR. I just am not too trusting of Honda, (-they really didn't handle the 1000RR problems well at all). And my friend's blatant dislike of the bike didn't help matters, either. Then you'd hear reports like the one about swarf out of the UK...

The idea of a big-displacement V4 sport-tourer with integrated luggage, modern suspension, etc... well, that's right up my alley. My current machines have relatively bland inline4 motors, and my CBR's is really boring unless you spin it right up---which I can't do around here very often.

From what I can remember of my test ride, the VFR sounded terrible at idle, but felt great when actually moving with great character and torque. The handling was super, the comfort was good, too. I wasn't a huge fan of the brakes but probably wasn't used to the ABS? What stopped me from buying was the high price, and doubts about Honda quality.

I know this thread is WAAAAAAYYYYY old but did anyone ever find a problem with the original poster's bike/clutch? Just curious because I have the same problem. I bought the bike with about 5,000 miles on it and noticed it a day or two after I got it. Its not really scary but I would like to know what it is.... 

Explain what sound you hear/feel and when do you hear it.  I haven't noticed my bike making any new sounds, but maybe I'm just oblivious.

Whatever, I hope it won't interfere with having a Merry Christmas.

My bike has had the same issue since new, and the dealer says it's "normal". Then they said it would "break in", and it never has. I have felt many other VFR1200 clutches and never felt one as bad as mine. Most likely an out round, or out of balance clutch basket. I will look into it when I do the valve clearance check in 1,000 miles.............

What you are hearing is clutch basket /geartrain backlash. This is because the engine does not idle at a constant rotational rate due to minimal flywheel effect of the crankshaft because of its relatively light mass.
 If you lift the revs just above idle and beyond it disappears. Every Honda I have ever owned has done this to some degree, some more than others, and there have been quite a few.

I think it is exacerbated on the 1200 because it idles relatively slowly, and there is no easy way that I know of to speed it up a bit, which would lessen the backlash.

Using 10w 30 oil makes it worse because it is so thin, coupled with the fact the VFR1200 runs on the hot side anyway.

My 2015 model does it, even with 10w 40 in it. I count it as normal.

No idle adjust screw?

4 hours ago, Auspanglish

No idle adjust screw?

It seems the idle speed is controlled by the ECU being FBW throttle.

dogman, 12/28/2016 at 7:58 PM

What you are hearing is clutch basket /geartrain backlash. This is because the engine does not idle at a constant rotational rate due to minimal flywheel effect of the crankshaft because of its relatively light mass.
 If you lift the revs just above idle and beyond it disappears. Every Honda I have ever owned has done this to some degree, some more than others, and there have been quite a few.

I think it is exacerbated on the 1200 because it idles relatively slowly, and there is no easy way that I know of to speed it up a bit, which would lessen the backlash.

Using 10w 30 oil makes it worse because it is so thin, coupled with the fact the VFR1200 runs on the hot side anyway.

My 2015 model does it, even with 10w 40 in it. I count it as normal.

I will check it out, but I'm pretty sure I feel it at all rpm's. It does make sense though, and others have mentioned the Honda clutch basket issues on many of their bikes for many, many years. I did feel one on a VFR1200 at the dealership that was very smooth.