Dynojet Pcv & Autotune & De-Cat.

i Guys & Gals, well i fitted the PCV a while back now, and i am very pleased with the fueling at low revs, where there was always a issue, i now can ride the VFR in 4th and 5th gear at 30 mph, which is something i could not do beforehand. The ECU re-map did make a difference, but you could still feel the whiplash in the drive train at low speeds, the PCV has now iradicated that, the VFR feels like a totally different motorcycle. :smile:

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I also fitted a K&N Air Filter.

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So the next stage is the Dynojet Autotune, you need the AT200 model for this, you are supplied with a O2 sensor with this, which is a lot bigger than the original Honda O2 sensors. So you need to weld a boss into the rear end of the cattilist, it needs to be atleast 4" towards the rear of the cattilist, so the sensor can read the exhaust gases, from both the front & rear cylinders. Now be very carefull where you position the O2 sensor, because you don't want it to foul against the sump or drive train. Well seeing as I had to remove the exhaust manifolds to do this, I decided to de-cat the VFR1200, a few photos to take you through it.

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Anyway i have just refitted the Exhaust manifolds, and everthing fits perfect.

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So over the weekend i will wire in the Autotune, and finnish the assembly of the VFR1200F. I hope this has been some help to you, if you are thinking about Autotune or de-catting your VFR1200. I will be road testing the VFR over the next week, i will road test the de-cat and PCV first, and tell you my thoughts, then connect the Autotune to the PCV and roadtest the VFR again and let you all know my findings. :smile:

Top stuff Dave, many thanks :)

Peter

For the abrupt throttle response, try a G2 throttle tamer.

Good luck with the rest of your project, and that de-cat job is really slick!

Nice pipework.

Well i fired her up today, on the PCV Map & de-cat, and what i noticed straight away is how responsive she is when you blip the throttle, :biggrin:  can't wait to road test it now. :smile:

Top quality thread. Keep us posted.

Really nice job on the pipes. I wish i could weld! I also wish some one would make a cat delete kit for the 1200.

 By the way Dave, was the cat box stuff you removed pretty heavy?

Really nice job on the pipes. I wish i could weld! I also wish some one would make a cat delete kit for the 1200.

 By the way Dave, was the cat box stuff you removed pretty heavy?

Yes its pretty heavy, i think it would be approx 1.5kls, along with the original exhaust can, you are probably saving around 7-8 kls, i have fitted a LeoVince Factory R evo2 end can.

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Thanks Dave. Your bike  looks great by the way!

  Finally got rid of my stock can. This one's only 3.5 lbs.  Cat delete will be next I think.

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Thanks Dave. Your bike  looks great by the way!

  Finally got rid of my stock can. This one's only 3.5 lbs.  Cat delete will be next I think.

Nice can by the way, :smile:  i hope you are hands on, because there is a few hours work involved in either de-cating or fitting the Autotune, i dread to think what the labour charge would of been for the above work from a main dealer.

Hi Dave! 

Your bike looks great!  I like the red tail cowls and tail light housing.  I noticed the turn signal covers are silver to match the silver trim up front.  Is any of that OEM or did you paint those items that way?  I don't mean to thread-jack.......I'm just lusting after your bikes colors.  Thanks.

Oh, very trick job on the cat.  I'll send you mine. 

Thanks

Mark

Hi Dave! 

Your bike looks great!  I like the red tail cowls and tail light housing.  I noticed the turn signal covers are silver to match the silver trim up front.  Is any of that OEM or did you paint those items that way?  I don't mean to thread-jack.......I'm just lusting after your bikes colors.  Thanks.

Oh, very trick job on the cat.  I'll send you mine. 

Thanks

Mark

Hi Mark, no the panels are not OEM, i had them painted, shortly after i bought the VFR new  in November 2011, in my opiniun the bike never looked finished, the paintwork that is.

Thanks Dave. That is likely the road I'll take. Your bike looks great! Ride safe.

Thanks Dave. That is likely the road I'll take. Your bike looks great! Ride safe.

On the 2013 model, the underseat side panels are now as the main colour, but i would still re-spray the panels, so that you know the tail section colour matches perfectly. :smile:

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Hi Guys, well yesterday i managed to wire in the Autotune, its just ready to road test now, :smile:  hopefully i will have some time later in the week to do this. :smile:

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Very first-class job! Thank you for this write-up.

Hi Guys, well no road test today, :sad:   snow stops play.

Nice installation.

I like the woven fabric wire loom. Did that come with the kit? or something you added? Does anyone know where to source that stuff? I have some wiring to do and I'd rather use that - than the plastic split sleeve loom readily available at auto parts houses.

Ernie

so you made the pipe yourself? thats amazing. I'd pay good money for one of those! Eh? EH?

Nice installation.

I like the woven fabric wire loom. Did that come with the kit? or something you added? Does anyone know where to source that stuff? I have some wiring to do and I'd rather use that - than the plastic split sleeve loom readily available at auto parts houses.

Ernie

The woven fabric is what Dynojet are useing, so sorry i can't help.

so you made the pipe yourself? thats amazing. I'd pay good money for one of those! Eh? EH?

 I removed the exhaust myself, and i used a local guy, because he supplied the Stainless tube pipe, i explained to him what i wanted, and he made up the 2 int 1 pipework, i then measured up where the O2 sensor boss needed to be, because you need to be very carefull that you do not fowl the sump or drive train, with the o2 sensor, the 2 into 1 was all TIG welded, then i re-fitted the exhaust myself, and it fits perfect, so a bit of a joint venture really. :smile:

So it is a smoking exhaust !!! :cool:  

So it is a smoking exhaust !!! :cool:  

:laugh:  funny as.

Dave,how did the dyno session ever turn out?? I am thinking of doing the same exhaust with decat and PV5 and autotune.....Can't wait to see your numbers!!!

Thanks!!

Dave,how did the dyno session ever turn out?? I am thinking of doing the same exhaust with decat and PV5 and autotune.....Can't wait to see your numbers!!!

Thanks!!

Hi bud, i have had the VFR on the dyno, without connecting up the Autotune, just to check the A/F readings, and below 4,000 revs the A/F readings were on the lean side, 14.2 to 14.6 from 4,000revs to 10,000 revs 13.4 to 13.8. connected the Autotune and in the 3 runs you could see the A/F readings were getting adjusted straight away, for the better i may add. The bhp readings were a bit of a surprise, map 1 was154bhp, on map 2 with the Autotune, 157bhp, these figures were at the back wheel. :smile:  I have since done around 150 miles, and the VFR pulls from very low revs, and very smooth, no chatter through the drive train, and when you hit 4,000 revs to 10,000 revs it is far quicker than before the above mods. I am looking at getting the VFR on another dyno, to get 1 map tailer made, then on map 2 for the Autotune, i have a map switch, so i can switch from one map to the other. When i get it back on the dyno, i will get a print out showing the BHP, Torque, and A/F readings, and i will post them up. This mod has really made a big difference, in its smoothness and how bl**dy quick it is. :smile:

WHAT 154 brake horse power  !!!!!!!!!!!!  Just  a high performance exhaust and air filter  and  fuel programmer ?

WHAT 154 brake horse power  !!!!!!!!!!!!  Just  a high performance exhaust and air filter  and  fuel programmer ?

De- cat, if you go to the first page, you will see what i did, and yes i was surprised aswell. :smile:

WHAT 154 brake horse power  !!!!!!!!!!!!  Just  a high performance exhaust and air filter  and  fuel programmer ?

  My fault 7th gen.

Yeah I was gonna crate my 6th gen up and send it to you for upgrades. 154 Hp is good .....

Dave,how did the dyno session ever turn out?? I am thinking of doing the same exhaust with decat and PV5 and autotune.....Can't wait to see your numbers!!!
Thanks!!

Hi bud, i have had the VFR on the dyno, without connecting up the Autotune, just to check the A/F readings, and below 4,000 revs the A/F readings were on the lean side, 14.2 to 14.6 from 4,000revs to 10,000 revs 13.4 to 13.8. connected the Autotune and in the 3 runs you could see the A/F readings were getting adjusted straight away, for the better i may add. The bhp readings were a bit of a surprise, map 1 was154bhp, on map 2 with the Autotune, 157bhp, these figures were at the back wheel. :smile:  I have since done around 150 miles, and the VFR pulls from very low revs, and very smooth, no chatter through the drive train, and when you hit 4,000 revs to 10,000 revs it is far quicker than before the above mods. I am looking at getting the VFR on another dyno, to get 1 map tailer made, then on map 2 for the Autotune, i have a map switch, so i can switch from one map to the other. When i get it back on the dyno, i will get a print out showing the BHP, Torque, and A/F readings, and i will post them up. This mod has really made a big difference, in its smoothness and how bl**dy quick it is. :smile:

OUTSTANDING Dave outstanding!! bl**dy outstanding!! :) :)

Well, i have been to my local dyno guy 3 times now to get a tailor made map for the set up i have, have i had it done No :angry: , so i am a little p*ssed off. Anyway i have booked it in at Dyno UK for 9 am 20th March. So that will be, Map 1 a tailor made map, Map 2 will be as map 1 but with the Autotune connected. :smile:   

Well, i have been to my local dyno guy 3 times now to get a tailor made map for the set up i have, have i had it done No :angry: , so i am a little p*ssed off. Anyway i have booked it in at Dyno UK for 9 am 20th March. So that will be, Map 1 a tailor made map, Map 2 will be as map 1 but with the Autotune connected. :smile:   

Are you coming over to Preston Dave?

I'm off that morning.

Peter

Well, i have been to my local dyno guy 3 times now to get a tailor made map for the set up i have, have i had it done No :angry: , so i am a little p*ssed off. Anyway i have booked it in at Dyno UK for 9 am 20th March. So that will be, Map 1 a tailor made map, Map 2 will be as map 1 but with the Autotune connected. :smile:   

Are you coming over to Preston Dave?

I'm off that morning.

Peter

Yes Peter, Stuart at the dyno centre, is a nice guy but enough is enough, software issues or something like that, i will tell you about it sometime. Yes at Preston, i know it is a long way to go for me, but atleast i know there will be No issues, anyway i wanted to see the outcome of both your and my VFR on the same dyno, just a pity its not on the same day. :smile:

Dave,how did the dyno session ever turn out?? I am thinking of doing the same exhaust with decat and PV5 and autotune.....Can't wait to see your numbers!!!

Thanks!!

Hi bud, i have had the VFR on the dyno, without connecting up the Autotune, just to check the A/F readings, and below 4,000 revs the A/F readings were on the lean side, 14.2 to 14.6 from 4,000revs to 10,000 revs 13.4 to 13.8. connected the Autotune and in the 3 runs you could see the A/F readings were getting adjusted straight away, for the better i may add. The bhp readings were a bit of a surprise, map 1 was154bhp, on map 2 with the Autotune, 157bhp, these figures were at the back wheel. :smile:  I have since done around 150 miles, and the VFR pulls from very low revs, and very smooth, no chatter through the drive train, and when you hit 4,000 revs to 10,000 revs it is far quicker than before the above mods. I am looking at getting the VFR on another dyno, to get 1 map tailer made, then on map 2 for the Autotune, i have a map switch, so i can switch from one map to the other. When i get it back on the dyno, i will get a print out showing the BHP, Torque, and A/F readings, and i will post them up. This mod has really made a big difference, in its smoothness and how bl**dy quick it is. :smile:

I was told by Dynojet that if using the switch, you can either a) toggle between two different maps stored in the PC5 or b) turn auto-tune off/on.  They said you cannot do both, as in, have 2 maps and autotune.  It will not work. 

Dave,how did the dyno session ever turn out?? I am thinking of doing the same exhaust with decat and PV5 and autotune.....Can't wait to see your numbers!!!

Thanks!!

Hi bud, i have had the VFR on the dyno, without connecting up the Autotune, just to check the A/F readings, and below 4,000 revs the A/F readings were on the lean side, 14.2 to 14.6 from 4,000revs to 10,000 revs 13.4 to 13.8. connected the Autotune and in the 3 runs you could see the A/F readings were getting adjusted straight away, for the better i may add. The bhp readings were a bit of a surprise, map 1 was154bhp, on map 2 with the Autotune, 157bhp, these figures were at the back wheel. :smile:  I have since done around 150 miles, and the VFR pulls from very low revs, and very smooth, no chatter through the drive train, and when you hit 4,000 revs to 10,000 revs it is far quicker than before the above mods. I am looking at getting the VFR on another dyno, to get 1 map tailer made, then on map 2 for the Autotune, i have a map switch, so i can switch from one map to the other. When i get it back on the dyno, i will get a print out showing the BHP, Torque, and A/F readings, and i will post them up. This mod has really made a big difference, in its smoothness and how bl**dy quick it is. :smile:

I was told by Dynojet that if using the switch, you can either a) toggle between two different maps stored in the PC5 or b) turn auto-tune off/on.  They said you cannot do both, as in, have 2 maps and autotune.  It will not work. 

Dave,how did the dyno session ever turn out?? I am thinking of doing the same exhaust with decat and PV5 and autotune.....Can't wait to see your numbers!!!

Thanks!!

Hi bud, i have had the VFR on the dyno, without connecting up the Autotune, just to check the A/F readings, and below 4,000 revs the A/F readings were on the lean side, 14.2 to 14.6 from 4,000revs to 10,000 revs 13.4 to 13.8. connected the Autotune and in the 3 runs you could see the A/F readings were getting adjusted straight away, for the better i may add. The bhp readings were a bit of a surprise, map 1 was154bhp, on map 2 with the Autotune, 157bhp, these figures were at the back wheel. :smile:  I have since done around 150 miles, and the VFR pulls from very low revs, and very smooth, no chatter through the drive train, and when you hit 4,000 revs to 10,000 revs it is far quicker than before the above mods. I am looking at getting the VFR on another dyno, to get 1 map tailer made, then on map 2 for the Autotune, i have a map switch, so i can switch from one map to the other. When i get it back on the dyno, i will get a print out showing the BHP, Torque, and A/F readings, and i will post them up. This mod has really made a big difference, in its smoothness and how bl**dy quick it is. :smile:

I was told by Dynojet that if using the switch, you can either a) toggle between two different maps stored in the PC5 or b) turn auto-tune off/on.  They said you cannot do both, as in, have 2 maps and autotune.

  It will not work. 

I maybe should of worded it differently, you can have your tailer made map, which is what i would mainly use, as regards to the Autotune, yes you would use the toggle switch, to switch the Autotune on or off, but the Autotune then would adjust around your tailer made map, well thats how i understand it, if i am told different by Dynojet UK, i will let you know. :smile:   

We are on the same page and that is how it works. For a minute there i was just trying to save you :)

On my R1 I have a PC5 and Autotune (no cat either, full Leo exhaust, flashed ECU, and graves stacks). I had a map made and then use the Autotune to work off that. In reality, once your map is made, you don't need to run Autotune unless you hit elevation. Been told 5k feet or more only. My tuner tunes for John Ulrich's kid (Chris) in the AMA and said I can run Autotune or not but it will only help AFR's and like you said, work off your base map. He gave me a 20k mile interval to replace the Bosch sensor. Said that race petrol is what kills the sensor and they'll last a while with pump petrol. If you decide to buy a backup sensor don't buy it fom Dynojet. They sell it in the states at auto parts stores for heaps cheaper. It's the same sensor they use on cars. My switch is right below the turn signal switch.

The VFR12 is new to me so I will ask. There is no full exhaust on the market?

We are on the same page and that is how it works. For a minute there i was just trying to save you :)

On my R1 I have a PC5 and Autotune (no cat either, full Leo exhaust, flashed ECU, and graves stacks). I had a map made and then use the Autotune to work off that. In reality, once your map is made, you don't need to run Autotune unless you hit elevation. Been told 5k feet or more only. My tuner tunes for John Ulrich's kid (Chris) in the AMA and said I can run Autotune or not but it will only help AFR's and like you said, work off your base map. He gave me a 20k mile interval to replace the Bosch sensor. Said that race petrol is what kills the sensor and they'll last a while with pump petrol. If you decide to buy a backup sensor don't buy it fom Dynojet. They sell it in the states at auto parts stores for heaps cheaper. It's the same sensor they use on cars. My switch is right below the turn signal switch.

The VFR12 is new to me so I will ask. There is no full exhaust on the market?

Hi bud, like you, i will be running on the tailor made map, most of the time, and use the Autotune, when i have my trips across to Europe etc. I will ask Dynojet UK , as regarding what altitude for the Autotune & A/F readings. At the moment there is not a aftermarket full exhaust system for the VFR1200, so i think i have made the next best thing. :smile:  Personal choice i know. :smile:

I don't speak German but these folk may make a full system:

http://vfr-1200-tuni...eich/index.html

I took a slightly different route to Dave, led by the guys who did the work and their capabilities. A cut, de-cat and re-weld with a clean up and smoothing of entry and exit inside the box:

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Sorry Peter, for German engineering, it looks rather agracultural to me, i certainly would not have it on my VFR1200. http://vfr-1200-tuni...eich/index.html big bhp figures or not. :smile:

I'm not sure it's a finished product Dave, more of a 'work in progress' methinks.

At least someone is working on it....

I'm frowning on the lack of rearsets and full system for this bike.  I figured Arrow, Akrapovic, Leo Vince, somebody would have a full system by now.  Still don't have the facts about the ECUnleashed either :(

Hi Guys & Gals, finnaly got my VFR1200F on the Dyno today, to get a map made to suit the set up i have.

PCV

K&N Air Filter

De-cat

LeoVince Factory R Evo 2 end can

Map switch

Autotune

The work has been well worth while. :smile:

The tailor made map is on the map switch, in the off position

The Autotune is on the map switch, in the on position, and works with in 10% parameter of the tailor made map.

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Great numbers, SAE RWHP = 164.8

"The work has been well worth while."

Indeed Dave !! NICE numbers....you must of been smiling all the way home. :)

"The work has been well worth while."

Indeed Dave !! NICE numbers....you must of been smiling all the way home. :)

Yes i was well pleased, the highest figure Dynojet UK have ever seen on a VFR1200F, but it was not just the 167.2 bhp but the the torque 95.34ibsft, thats impressive. But the whole idea of this exercise, was to try and improve the smoothness at low revs, and it has certainly done that, a lot smoother in 30mph and 40mph, and a lot more responsive, right through the rev range. :smile:   

The exhaust looks good, but I'd check the correction factor your dyno guy is using. Assuming my eyes are not deceiving me peak torque is at 7200rpm, so peak HP is 131hp. With the standard DJ correction factors of 1.1-1.15 that could read anywhere between 144 & 151hp. Your 167 reading indicates a correction factor of 1.28 which is way beyond the DJ norms.

FYi to calculate real HP the equation is Peak Torque (ft-lbs) x Peak Torque RPM / 5252.  So your 95.34ft-lbs x 7200 /5252 = 130.7 Real HP.

Dynojet dynamometers do read Torque correctly, but they are a bit liberal with their calculation to get HP (all dynos calculate HP from Torque), they use the magic correction factor above 1.

The exhaust looks good, but I'd check the correction factor your dyno guy is using. Assuming my eyes are not deceiving me peak torque is at 7200rpm, so peak HP is 131hp. With the standard DJ correction factors of 1.1-1.15 that could read anywhere between 144 & 151hp. Your 167 reading indicates a correction factor of 1.28 which is way beyond the DJ norms.

FYi to calculate real HP the equation is Peak Torque (ft-lbs) x Peak Torque RPM / 5252.  So your 95.34ft-lbs x 7200 /5252 = 130.7 Real HP.

Dynojet dynamometers do read Torque correctly, but they are a bit liberal with their calculation to get HP (all dynos calculate HP from Torque), they use the magic correction factor above 1.

Dynojet use the same figures on all their Dynos, so whether it is 150 bhp or a 167 bhp is irrelervent, the point of this exercise was to improve the low speed running ie smoothness of my VFR, which i have achieved, my point is of all the VFR1200F's that have been on their Dynos mine showed the highest figure, now correct me if i am wrong, but they have all been worked out the same way, at the end of the day the only true and accurate way, is to have all the VFR1200'S on the Dyno, the same day, with the same Dyno Technicion operating it. :smile:

No they don't. The DIN correction factor & the DJ correction factor are configurable by the operator, as are the temp, pressure, humidity values if the auto sensors are not connected or working !  This gives the operator the ability to fudge the figures anyway they like.

I'm not surprised yours is the highest number they have seen if the operator was using a 1.28 correction factor !  Whis is much higher than the normal 1.1-1.15 most use !

Take it for what its worth.

No they don't. The DIN correction factor & the DJ correction factor are configurable by the operator, as are the temp, pressure, humidity values if the auto sensors are not connected or working !  This gives the operator the ability to fudge the figures anyway they like.

I'm not surprised yours is the highest number they have seen if the operator was using a 1.28 correction factor !  Whis is much higher than the normal 1.1-1.15 most use !

Take it for what its worth.

I have taken it for what it is worth, as i said the only true way is if the dyno technicion runs all of the VFR's up on the Dyno the same day, yes the figures have to all worked out the same way, that's obvious.

I've seen Dave's correction factor. It was unity (din).

HP is merely the rate of torque. Max Hp is where revs x torque x a constant peak.

In the UK DIN is the standard, not SAE. Standard hp (as opposed to bhp) is measured at about 140 to 145 at the wheel. So comparatively Dave's hp is what it is, 167, a fair comparison.

The Rpm used to measure peak power isn't peak torque rpm. It peak power rpm

I've seen Dave's correction factor. It was unity (din).

HP is merely the rate of torque. Max Hp is where revs x torque x a constant.

In the UK DIN is the standard, not SAE. Standard hp (as opposed to bhp) is measured at about 140 to 145 at the wheel. So comparatively Dave's hp is what it is, 167, a fair comparison.

Thanks, at the end of the day, the bike feels fine, and as i have already said, i can't see why Dynojet UK Technicions would use different ways of working  the bhp and torque figures out surely the Technicions at Dynojet uk would use the same formula, or whats the point.  This is what i hate about Dyno Readings, every body allways has a different view on things, my point was as long as all the VFR's what were ran up at Dynojet UK were worked out with the same formula it must be pretty accurate. Yes i know better still all the VFR's on the same dyno the same day.

Well i fired her up today, on the PCV Map & de-cat, and what i noticed straight away is how responsive she is when you blip the throttle, :biggrin:  can't wait to road test it now. :smile:

Dave here's a question.... in your original post's photos the airbox cover is removed. I was wondering did you leave the cover off after installing the KN filter?

If you've reinstalled the cover did you keep the 2 rubber boots as well?

nickolaus, no I re-fitted the Airbox lid, and also the Air-intake rubbers.

Very informative thread Dave. Thanks a lot for sharing your experience. The bhp gains made are very impressive indeed, and so is your clear and crisp style of communication.  

I am based out of Mumbai, India and plan to emulate your project on my recently acquired 2010 model DCT. Would it be possible for me to get your bikes map? 

Cheers

V

I'd get the bike set-up by a dyno right away if I were you. I got a map from Dynojet UK for the same setup (decat, K&N Air Filter, and Akrapovic slip-on) and it was kind of OK but I wasn't totally happy with it. When I finally got it on a dyno, the tuner told me it was running on the poor side just about everywhere (it was up to 16:1 in some places, really really poor). The gas we have here in Turkey is way different to what they have in the UK, and I'm sure that's the case in India too. Get a dyno shop to set your bike up right after you do the upgrades, you won't regret it.

After the tuning, my bike's rideability improved immensely. I didn't install an Autotune on my bike, so I'm probably missing that last bit of precision that Dynajohn, hvfrdave and others are experiencing but it's miles better than the stock form...

DynaJohn also has a Don Guhl ECU reflash, and after he added a PCV.

Funny is, I didn't do any of this and just did a Don Guhl ECU reflash with a new map and it runs just as the topic starter describes, but I use stock exhaust and airfilter.

Don't forget, Don puts an optimised PCV map into the ECU (or one that you want).

The EU-ECU's have serious flaws in them due to EU-regulations, take those out and the bike flies, with or without PCV.