I need some opinions on this. The top right sub frame mount on this bike was broken off. The other three mounts are solid but the frame still has a little give when mounted by three points. As far as I can tell this part is made from cast aluminum so welding is probably out of the question. Does any one have any ideas how to go about fixing this? I have a few ideas but none are really thought out enough at the moment. I don't have any real good photos at the moment. I will post some close up pictures when I get home.
Before replacing subframe:
[image: IMG_1267.JPG]
After replacing subframe: (of course the only photo I have has the rubber piece in the way...)
[image: IMG_1275.JPG]
Parts diagram: It is bolt 19 on this diagram and the mounting point is snapped so that half of the hole and the thread remain.
I hadn't even thought of that as an option yet. Its a pretty good idea. I think I would need to tie it into two points to make it truly rigid. Maybe even some how attach it to the broken piece...
I hadn't even thought of that as an option yet. Its a pretty good idea. I think I would need to tie it into two points to make it truly rigid. Maybe even some how attach it to the broken piece...
Yeah that looks like the only option but unless you can find a donor bike and change the frame.
Missing the support on that side might eventually strain the rest of the other mounting points too much because of the unsymmetrical loads causing more damage later......I'd do it right and try every effort to weld in a new aluminum eye to replace the one broken off the frame. You can check with a welder if it can be done with most things around ti still in place. There are ways to isolate other parts from the heat from welding, Hopefully there's enough room for the welder to do his work.
Yeah, after taking a look at it again this morning (I was distracted checking on friends in Boston yesterday :( ) it looks like I could be welded. I definitely did not plan to ride it with only the three mounts, I used my good judgement and decided the sub-frame moves around way to much without the fourth point. Here are some photos of the torn mount. Sorry I didn't have them yesterday. Thanks for all the opinions!
I think weld it is probably the way to go. I will have to find a welder and a new mount. I could also see if I can find the other half of the eyelet. Let me know what you guys think.
one side was threaded other other side was not.. it had a longer bold with a nut..
WELD IT !!!!!
its SO easy to do.
the sub frame is mild steal and can be welded with a $89 gasless mig from harbor freight. :fing02:
do what honda SHOULD have done.. take big nut and find a matching bolt that JUUUUUSSSTT fits in the frame
. tighten nut and bolt. cut sub frame until the other side linens up ..tighten other side.. tack weld the new nut to the sub frame..
remove the sub frame or pivot it way back. and weld it up! reinstall everything
make sure you remove all the GAS from the bike.. and the battery.. and the CPU / black box/ icu / voodoo magic contrainer
and cover up the rest of the bike.. :fing02:
Oh yeah. Im sure its broken haha.
Is it really mild steel? The part looks like cast aluminum to me. I had assumed that was why the torque specs on the sub-frame mounts were so low. Oh well, now I have to find a good professional welder in my area.
The only thing I worry about is that there is not a whole lot of area there to weld. I am thinking that a welder is going to hate this project. First problem is to find that aluminum piece where the bike went down. Second problem is to find a welder willing to do it.
The only thing I worry about is that there is not a whole lot of area there to weld. I am thinking that a welder is going to hate this project. First problem is to find that aluminum piece where the bike went down. Second problem is to find a welder willing to do it.
are you kidding me?? its a welder dream!! its simple! its accessible!! its clean!!
any tig welder who has 2 brain cells in sober working condition can weld that up in a snap.
your best bet.. if you have any files, grinders or sanders.. file the broken faces flat... get a piece of aluminum of appropriate thickness and shape the part that will be welded into place.. :fing02:
if you where closer i would do it myself.
IF YOU HAVE THE OTHER PART>> TAKE IT TO THE WELDER.....
The only thing I worry about is that there is not a whole lot of area there to weld. I am thinking that a welder is going to hate this project. First problem is to find that aluminum piece where the bike went down. Second problem is to find a welder willing to do it.
are you kidding me?? its a welder dream!! its simple! its accessible!! its clean!!
any tig welder who has 2 brain cells in sober working condition can weld that up in a snap.
your best bet.. if you have any files, grinders or sanders.. file the broken faces flat... get a piece of aluminum of appropriate thickness and shape the part that will be welded into place.. :fing02:
if you where closer i would do it myself.
IF YOU HAVE THE OTHER PART>> TAKE IT TO THE WELDER.....
Okay will do. I may even design a new mount and call in a favor from some machinist friends to get it made. I have already found a guy who welded my friends wake bar on his boat a few years ago. He comes highly recommended. Ill give him a call and get a quote on it.
Yes, don't bother with looking for the broken off piece. Just grind of the remnants of the mounting eye so there's nice good straight material to weld to, then have a chunk of aluminum shaped properly and welded to the broken area, then have a new hole bored by a machinist. If you want to, you can take down the area enough so the replacement aluminum piece would be bigger and easier to pre-bore it before welding it on to the frame...
The machinist and welder can give you an estimate so that you can make a determination if the proper repair is costing as much as just getting a replacement frame from a breaker. The important thing is to do the repair correctly is you will go that way....
As well as welding it, you could also fabricate a support that goes from the repaired tab to the bottom tab, so that the bottom tab takes part of the load that the subframe will put through the top tab. If space permits you could even make the support go across to the other two tabs to share the load equally.
Yes, don't bother with looking for the broken off piece. Just grind of the remnants of the mounting eye so there's nice good straight material to weld to, then have a chunk of aluminum shaped properly and welded to the broken area, then have a new hole bored by a machinist. If you want to, you can take down the area enough so the replacement aluminum piece would be bigger and easier to pre-bore it before welding it on to the frame...
The machinist and welder can give you an estimate so that you can make a determination if the proper repair is costing as much as just getting a replacement frame from a breaker. The important thing is to do the repair correctly is you will go that way....
Beck
95 VFR.
really over kill.
the broken piece should fit perfect.
you tack weld it on the sides at 4 spots.. then cut a V into the crack and fill it in.. ditto for the bottom crack.. your hole is still there., then you shave the side and add an extra plate with a hole pre drilled. should take all of 30 min.
I couldn't find the piece yesterday but I only looked for a few minutes. It started to down pour on me so I left. I am going to give it another look today. I may need a metal detector to find it honestly. I did find a few pieces of cars. Apparently this corner doesn't just claim motorcycles...
I took measurements on the broken spot and am going to start building a replacement part for if I cant find it. Stay tuned for a model.
This looks simple enough right:
[image: mount.JPG]
I could try and make it my self if I could find access to a bridgeport, or I could try and call in a favor from some machinest friends.
I know there is a million ways to do this... what I would do, either cut (you can use woodworking tools to work with aluminum) a piece from some aluminum stock, or drop by a fab shop and find a suitable sized peice of aluminum, should cost you 50 cents. Shape with belt sander, drill and tap hole (I'm told tapping holes is more difficult after welding heat cycles), flatten broken frame tab with beltsander or flap disc, take to welder and have them do what gll429 said. If you have access to a mill then that's awesome... just thought I would give you another DIY option.
Good luck
Edit: If you wanted the easiest yet method... don't bother drilling anything until after it gets welded, then drill your hole and simply use a bolt and nut.
I have the same issue, but mine is on the bottom left. Some goon tried JB Weld it looks like.
I cleaned it with heat and the part fits perfect, but it's not a smooth break. Does that make sense? There's no gap, so I think the welder should be after to do it. If I grind it flat, the holes wont line up.
I know there is a million ways to do this... what I would do, either cut (you can use woodworking tools to work with aluminum) a piece from some aluminum stock, or drop by a fab shop and find a suitable sized peice of aluminum, should cost you 50 cents. Shape with belt sander, drill and tap hole (I'm told tapping holes is more difficult after welding heat cycles), flatten broken frame tab with beltsander or flap disc, take to welder and have them do what gll429 said. If you have access to a mill then that's awesome... just thought I would give you another DIY option.
Good luck
Edit: If you wanted the easiest yet method... don't bother drilling anything until after it gets welded, then drill your hole and simply use a bolt and nut.
You pretty much described my process haha. If I can't convince a friend to make it for free I will just use files and a grider to make the part. My biggest issue right now is finding a skilled welder with the right tools.
I have the same issue, but mine is on the bottom left. Some goon tried JB Weld it looks like.
I cleaned it with heat and the part fits perfect, but it's not a smooth break. Does that make sense? There's no gap, so I think the welder should be after to do it. If I grind it flat, the holes wont line up.
I wish mine was on the bottom. A compression joint would be so much easier to fix than a tension joint. I would bring it to the welder and ask him what he thinks. I have no idea how to weld pieces like these so I cant comment on it. You may end up having to make a piece like mine and have it welded on. I would check back on this thread later to see how much success the welder has with mine.
I'm trying really hard to not replace the frame. It would be a large pain in the butt to swap everything over to a new frame, plus mine is pretty solid with the exception of that one mount.
I'm trying really hard to not replace the frame. It would be a large pain in the butt to swap everything over to a new frame, plus mine is pretty solid with the exception of that one mount.
he meant find a smashed frame and cut the sub frame mounts off..weld them to your bike.. key word above.. DENTED.
and its a good idea but really not worth all the effort unless a bike yard is near you.
I'm trying really hard to not replace the frame. It would be a large pain in the butt to swap everything over to a new frame, plus mine is pretty solid with the exception of that one mount.
he meant find a smashed frame and cut the sub frame mounts off..weld them to your bike.. key word above.. DENTED.
and its a good idea but really not worth all the effort unless a bike yard is near you.
Oh, my mistake. Yeah there isn't much for bike salvage yards around me. If I could find a dented one for cheap on ebay may be interested but a quick scan gives me not much for options at the moment.
The good news is I learned of a close welder with a TIG I emailed him some pictures and asked for a quote. Hopefully he sticks well below 100 bucks and can do a good job.
Yes, don't bother with looking for the broken off piece. Just grind of the remnants of the mounting eye so there's nice good straight material to weld to, then have a chunk of aluminum shaped properly and welded to the broken area, then have a new hole bored by a machinist. If you want to, you can take down the area enough so the replacement aluminum piece would be bigger and easier to pre-bore it before welding it on to the frame...
The machinist and welder can give you an estimate so that you can make a determination if the proper repair is costing as much as just getting a replacement frame from a breaker. The important thing is to do the repair correctly is you will go that way....
Beck
95 VFR.
really over kill.
the broken piece should fit perfect.
you tack weld it on the sides at 4 spots.. then cut a V into the crack and fill it in.. ditto for the bottom crack.. your hole is still there., then you shave the side and add an extra plate with a hole pre drilled. should take all of 30 min.
Personally, I still won't trust that broken piece as it could have microcracks extending into the material from where it broke off from. the frame and can maybe crack off again past the welds.....anyway, the OP seems to have lost it for good and he's going with a new bigger piece to weld on......
Yes, don't bother with looking for the broken off piece. Just grind of the remnants of the mounting eye so there's nice good straight material to weld to, then have a chunk of aluminum shaped properly and welded to the broken area, then have a new hole bored by a machinist. If you want to, you can take down the area enough so the replacement aluminum piece would be bigger and easier to pre-bore it before welding it on to the frame...
The machinist and welder can give you an estimate so that you can make a determination if the proper repair is costing as much as just getting a replacement frame from a breaker. The important thing is to do the repair correctly is you will go that way....
Beck
95 VFR.
really over kill.
the broken piece should fit perfect.
you tack weld it on the sides at 4 spots.. then cut a V into the crack and fill it in.. ditto for the bottom crack.. your hole is still there., then you shave the side and add an extra plate with a hole pre drilled. should take all of 30 min.
Personally, I still won't trust that broken piece as it could have microcracks extending into the material from where it broke off from. the frame and can maybe crack off again past the welds.....anyway, the OP seems to have lost it for good and he's going with a new bigger piece to weld on......
Personally, I still won't trust that broken piece as it could have microcracks extending into the material from where it broke off from. the frame and can maybe crack off again past the welds.....anyway, the OP seems to have lost it for good and he's going with a new bigger piece to weld on......
Beck
95 VFR
I dunno, What would you suggest as a fix? Take a look at the second set of pictures I posted. There is not a lot of room for building any sort of bracket, I really put a lot of thought into it. The guy I am asking to do the welding previously welded a friends wake board tower on his ski boat and that has held up for a few years.
As far as the microcrack concern goes if the frame piece were to rip off it wouldn't result in instant fiery death, the seat just moves around more and eventually fails, hopefully I would be aware of this possibility and keep any eye out for excessive play in the seat frame.
It's really up to you on how you approach this repair, I'm just suggesting what I think would be the best fix if you keep the original frame so the problem does not rear it's head again the future...Fix it once and fix it right is how I always approach things like this, especially if it will be something to do with my motorcycles.... And yes, it does not sound like it's something that might explode into something fatal during a ride if it does fail again......but who knows till it happens.....the other mount can fail too if this one lets go and the bike pretty much breaks its back. Not a fun thing to happen during a ride....
If there's just a lot of doubt in your mind on what to do, you might just bite the bullet and replace the whole frame as it might be actually cheaper to do than to try and fabricate a new piece, machine it and then have it welded to your original frame. I've seen frames in eBay many times going for not so much money. You might be able to snag one for a good price if you can wait a bit and hunt for it. At least you will not have it in the back of your head that it might fail every time you ride the bike....