VFR Discussion Group -> Poll: bar risers

What prompted you to purchase a bar riser system?
Why did you choose this bar riser system?
Did the bar riser system solve your ergonomic problems?
Did the bar riser system meet your expectations?
What are the pros and cons of your choice?

From Chumly:
I have a Honda 2004 VFR800A and my wrists get painful.  I have very sensitive, quick to pain wrists due to guitar playing.  It has been that way for 20 years.  It is not a numbness or soreness or mild ache. A standard riding position such as that found on a Yamaha  FZ1 or Honda Goldwing does not induce the pain.

I would like to reduce the pressure/weight on my wrists as much as possible.  I find I am right up against the tank, with too much weight and pressure on my wrists, with the stock bars too low, with too much of a reach.

I do not want to change the cables, hydraulics, etc. or to have the new handlebars bump again the existing front fairing & windshield.

From Cycle Cat:
Thanks for your note.  Let me say first, that as of today, we can't help you.  If that's all you want to know, you can skip the rest.  But your quest seems to be a very intelligent one, and thus, I thought I'd fill in a bit more information.

You know, as much as I regret your riding discomfort, your letter is very exciting to us... especially the list of products you're considering!  Wow, how we would love to be in the comparison you've identified!   Here's why, and I am going to excerpt a recent letter written to an individual in the press, which was on a similar subject...

"Cycle Cat's focus is on adjustment, and enabling a rider to dial in the ergonomics of his or her bike, whether for racing or comfort. We don't say that any given bar position is right or wrong, merely, that any given bar position is neither right nor wrong for everyone. And thus, in any honest effort to improve rider-bike fit, as a practical matter, one must provide for adjustment.
"There are three critical elements of bar positioning, all of which must be optimized if one is get to the sweet spot for a given rider. First is bar angle. Second is bar height. Third is bar position, fore and aft. We make fore-aft position changes but only in subtle ways, as in general, moving the bars forward is not an option, and moving them back negatively affects optimum weight distribution, and thus degrades handling.  The design of a product which degrades the performance of a motorcycle is pretty much heresy at Cycle Cat.
"Bar height adjustment has a similar effect, but less directly.  Thus, we do provide for as much bar height adjustment as is practical, before weight distribution changes significantly, and before interference occurs with fairings, etc.  Bar angle, it turns out for most riders, is the most meaningful consideration. When the bar angle is correct, there are no pressure points on the hands, the wrists and arms are aligned properly for the individual, and stress is reduced throughout the mechanical system, all the way up to the back.
"Put it all together, and you understand what we target achieving for any rider using Cycle Cat bar systems. If we can't achieve that with a product, we don't release the product."
On a personal note... I am currently doing extensive testing on a BMW K1200RS.  The bar position is relatively high, certainly   compared to the Ducati I am used to riding... I have no problem with the bar height... but I do have a serious problem with a pressure point on my left hand, though not on my right.  What's up with this?  Its my body, not the bike... the way I am constructed wants my left hand flatter than the bar will allow.  With that problem addressed, the bike would be just about perfect.  And that is exactly what Cycle Cat's adjustment is designed to address.

The reason your comparison is so exciting to me, is that no other products make possible the kind and degree of positional adjustment which is not only achievable, but easily achievable, with Cycle Cat bar systems.  So, we'd love to be in the ring with any product on your list.  But unfortunately, we don't, at the moment, have a product for the VFR.

We do have a VFR scheduled in for development shortly, and we are stepping up our development capabilities to make this happen faster than it has in the past.  But for the moment, I'm afraid we can't help, except through conversation.

So, Dan, perhaps you can bear with us until we have something for your bike. I cannot project the availability date very precisely quite yet... it  might be very quick, or it might be fall... there are a couple of variables.   If you can wait, all of us at Cycle Cat will do everything we can to ensure it is worth the wait... but if you can't, we certainly understand, and wish you success with  whatever product you pick... Beyond that, we are here to help and be of support in any way we can, so please don't hesitate to call on us.

Best-

-Alfred

Alfred Kobacker, President
Cycle Cat division Ideanamics, LLC
800 Morrison Rd.
Columbus, OH 43230 USA

phone: 614-577-8080
fax: 614-577-8019
website: http://www.cyclecat.com

Gen Mar,

Simple, relatively inexpensive and quite effective for me at 5'9", 160lbs w/30" inseam.

Went w/ a Targa +2 windscree to maintain a 'stock' coverage.

Genmars work on the 98-'01 VFR800, but not the VTEC.

Gilles Vario bars are a popular choice in the UK, but they're bloody expensive - although they are a quality piece of kit.

I like the idea of being able to easily change the bar heights way more. The gilles look really good, but I like convertibars the best and will be ordering some as soon as I have the cash.

Convertibars have really good customer support and a nice looking product. I like how you can also order them with a throttlemeister (or the adapter for one if you already got one) and extended stainless steel braided brake/clutch/throttle lines too if you REALLY want to go up the 4" (speilgerUSA...good quality lines).

I talked to Cycle cat a few months ago and this is what they said:

Quote

Thanks for your note, and kind words about our product.  At the moment, we do not have the VFR scheduled for development work, though I would love to move it into the schedule, in as much as it is, in my opinion, one of the great bikes of all time. However, until it is measured and fitted, we really find it difficult to reply intelligently as to whether any of our products might fit a particular bike.  This does happen sometimes, but typically, we need to see the bike first hand to evaluate it. We'll see what we can do.  So stay in touch, and we'll do our best. Thank you, again, for  your interest, Brian.  I wish we had something for you immediately, but we'll work on it. Best- -Alfred

Nice to see they're working on it, and it's awesome to recieve a personal e-mail from them. SO many places seem to respond with yes/no answers that leave me feeling very empty inside. I bet those bad boys would be SO nice if/when they come out....they look awesome.

Anywho, just my thoughts  :beer:

Brian

GenMar, although I really didn't need them. My 04 VFR VTEC was comfortable enough without the risers but I got them anyway. I plan on doing a trip from florida to utah next year and the risers will probably be a welcome addition on that trip. I'm also doing the saddlesore 1000 next week and will get a really good impresion of whether they work well or not. They are high quality and very easy to install...Mine took all of five minutes from opening the package to riding away on the bike.

I have the GenMars and purchased them from a fellow lister.  While they make a signifanct difference in reducing wrist discomfort on longer rides I find myself wanting a bit more bar height and would also like to bring the bars back a bit more.  I will probably go with the convertibars but need to purchase a seat first. My butt's aching a lot more than my wrists are on longer trips.

VFRMike.

Quote (Flightar @ July 05 2004)

I'm also doing the saddlesore 1000 next week and will get a really good impresion of whether they work well or not.

:wow:

I have an 04 VFR with a Sargent seat and helibars.
  I found the seat lowered me a bit and the bars gave me a push backwards and caused me to sit a bit more upright.
  None of the changes were dramatic but they did what I wanted and I am much more comfortable now.
  I am only 5'8" with a 30 inseam and about 173lbs.
  I went with helis as there is an Iron Butt rider where I work who has helis on his 03 VFR and they seem to work for him.
 Besides the guy who makes them is only 10 miles from where I live.

Quote (VFRMike @ July 05 2004)

I have the GenMars and purchased them from a fellow lister. �

That was me...that was me :goof:

How are you doing Mike....may be coming up your way on the trip to Laguna Seca this weekend....not sure which route we'll be taking...how's the weather up there?

Craig

I had Helibars when I first purchased my bike. �Had them on for a week and returned them because I felt that they took away from the sporty feel of the bike in the twisties. �Then I scored a set of Gen-Mars from a fellow VFR-D'er, and have had them on there for the last 8K mi. �They were pretty good - a nice little bump up without affecting the feel of the bike. �I just removed them yesterday and rode around all day. �I do not feel that make that much of a difference. �In a nutshell, if I had to do it over again, I would not buy any sort of bars/risers. �With every mod, it will enhance some aspect of ride/performance, but will detract from another. �I think that riding style is way more important. �Here is what works for me:

1) �Wrists pointed down, not out. �This also forces you to do number two.....

2) �Grip the tank with your knees for support instead of having all the weight on your wrists.

3) �Get a Vista Cruise, not a throttle rocker. �I get numb hands (though rarely anymore since I started doing the above), and this allows me to stretch/move my throttle hand while cruising along.

Just my $.02 on a topic that I have done a lot of research and experimentation on.

Quote (StealthBlack04 @ July 05 2004)

I would not buy any sort of bars/risers. �With every mod, it will enhance some aspect of ride/performance, but will detract from another.

For me, I would not be buying them to enhance some aspect of ride/performance  per se.  I would be buying them strctly for the health of my 48 year old wrists.

My wrists cannot take the increased weight and pressure of the lower set bars.  Irrespective of technique, I am not convinced that the amount of strain on one�s wrists is equal to or less than the amount in a more upright ridging position.

Further the lower riding position in the city mikes it harder to do the �constant scan� approach to defensive riding that I employ.

Quote (Chumly @ July 05 2004)

[quote=StealthBlack04,July 05 2004] I would not be buying them to enhance some aspect of ride/performance �per se. �I would be buying them strctly for the health of my 48 year old wrists.

My point is that anything you do will change the feel of the bike.  With GenMars, it was really not bad - with Helibars, I felt that it took away a lot of the sporty feel of the bike.

Quote (StealthBlack04 @ July 06 2004)

With GenMars, it was really not bad - with Helibars, I felt that it took away a lot of the sporty feel of the bike.

I understand.  Not a fair trade off for you.  For me I need to soften the blow.

Hello Craig,

Yes that was me who purchased the Genmar's from you.  I have really enjoyed them but with some longer trips planned for August, one of them being over 2500 miles over 5 days, I've got to get the bars up higher and further back.  I love your new bike (the CBR1000RR) and was sorry to hear about the crash with the VFR.  Looks like you came out okay.  The weather here is really nice (low to mid 80's) but if you take HWY 1 it'll be much cooler (upper 50's) but I'd take HWY 1 anyway.  If you are passing through Paso Robles and have a chance then stop by.  You can PM me for the # if needed.


VFRMike.

Hey Chumly hope your home mades work well. I bought the Genmar's. The site didn't mention the extra $26 can. for duty and taxes :pissed: .
May see you at the church(bcsb)

Quote (maxredline @ July 11 2004)

Hey Chumly hope your home mades work well. I bought the Genmar's. The site didn't mention the extra $26 can. for duty and taxes :pissed: . May see you at the church(bcsb)

No home-mades for me, I do not have the shop for such.  It's JAM that is into that.  I was all set to buy the Heli's, but the new Convertibars are very interesting. No big user-base yet.  I read on some sites (ZZR1200  CBR1100XX) of a few owners and the feedback seems good.  You should not be paying any duty for the Genmar's, just sales taxes & maybe brokerage fees.

Church would be good!

I'm thinking of buying the convertibars too.  I like the multi-adjustable idea in case something changes.  I plan to have a custom seat made this winter and that could change my riding position.  I like the idea that if I want to drop them down for a day of supersport riding I could, but it is a lot of cash to fork out without knowing much about them.  That is the only thing that has held me up this long.  So any review would be greatly appreciated by me too.  I also plan to install heated grips and gel grips at the same time(as long as I have to change everything over anyway).

Mike

Convertibars for ZZR
http://www.zzr1200.net/modules.php?name=Reviews&rop=showcontent&id=29
I purchased a set of Convertibars for my wife's '03 ZZR1200. I worked directly with Tim, the owner, of Convertibars. He is willing to do whatever it takes to ensure the customer is satisfied and has a great fit.

The adjustability of these units is virtually infinite thanks to the Cyclops clamp. The only thing that will limit you on the ZZR is the location of the ram-air duct work.

It makes a world of difference in "rideability" as my wife would say. The difference between the stock height location and her present location is about 5 inches. It transforms the bike into a much more touring feeling on the "sport/touring" spectrum.

The quality of the materials is absolutely first rate. Many people that have seen her bike in person have stated that it looks like it came from the factory that way. This, in my opinion, is a good thing.

She felt as if she was compromising a bit when riding with the stock bars. The Convertibars have transformed her ZZR into an even better sport/touring rig.

I even teased Tim a little and told him he should become a Corbin seat dealer. If you hate your stock seat with the stock bars, you're going to hate it even more with the Convertibars, or any rise from the stock bars for that matter.

I would highly recommend them to anyone looking for more vertical rise than afforded by simple block risers.

Cycleworld Evaluation April 04 Issue
http://convertibars.com/CycleWorldEvaluation.pdf

Quote (maxredline @ July 11 2004)

I bought the Genmar's. The site didn't mention the extra $26 can. for duty and taxes :pissed:

Why should they? They're not a Canadian site.

Price, purchased from another VfrD member. �Satisfied with results. �Helibars look to a better solution but did not want to change out lines and cables.

I wish I could vote again but not possible, I think.  Anyway, I vote for the Convertibars.  I've had them for about 5 months now and they're really nice.  I look at how far they've taken the bars up and I think how "relatively" low they were before.  I sat on a friends RC51 (just like the one I used to own) and it was like "How'd I ever do this".  And he's got Helibars on his RC.  I will add that I've not moved the Convertibars from their original position before my Colorado trip.  I thought they'd come down occasionally but they're great in the full up and back position.  I highly recommend this product.

VFRMike.

Helis are great.  I have also worked on better posture.  I can now ride longer with less pain.

:D I've stock ones on my 96 and they look great and quiet comfortables..is it true that the 90-93 model have different ones,with less inclination angle?

The precedent owner of my 98 vfr had some but remove them because he found that he was a bit to high/up position so he was having more air pressure.

<So he removed it

My used 03 came with heli's, but I removed them. The bike I had before my 02 and 03 vfr's was a gsxr. That's the bike I started riding again after having been off bikes for decades :) Yes I took the msf course first, and damn glad I did.

I mention all this because the gsxr was really tough on my wrists. The whole time I owned it (for about 6k miles), I found it hard to keep my hands from going numb. So when I traded it in on my 02 vfr, I was in heaven (wrist wise). Now, after the 6k on my 02 vfr and about 3k on my 03, I have a much better riding position. I don't put weight on my wrists, yes it's hard on the body to get to that position (back, knees), but I think I'm getting very used to it, and control is better also. For the rocord I'm 5'8" and 145 and 30 inseam.

I have ridden with clip ons (going all the way back to my 73 RD350),that were a few inches below the triple tree. One of the reasons I chose a VFR was for the higher position of the stock bars, which are great to me. After I take a long trip on the bike, I may change my mind, but for now, the stock bars seem just right.

It's been 6 months now with the Convertibars and I am still very pleased with them. The bars have not been lowered although I have played with changing the angle of the bars. When they're adjusted so they are as wide as possible the bike turns with the slightest effort. This position will move you forward a bit- but still not as far as stock. They're GGGGRRRRReeeaaattt!! Okay, that was cheesy!! :blink:

VFRMike. :wheel:

I have GenMar Risers and find they do a good job of relieving just enough pressure on my wrists without taking away from the sporty feel of the bike. My main concern when installing them was removing the c-ring from the top of the bars, which is an extra safety device should the bolt on the bar become loose. I used blue locktite on the bolt and also around the inner part of the clip-on bar. I have not had any issues with the bolts or bars coming loose.

Dave. :wheel: