How Do You Use Your Dct?

Of course all my previous bikes have been a hand clutch, foot shift.

More and more I find the nuances of how the DCT works, and what MODE works best for different types of riding style.

For instance.

In traffic, I often use D and let it shift early and chug along.

Up the canyon, I change to S mode, and toggle between auto and manual, using manual for when I want to stay in a particular gear, or use a taller gear, or leaving it in one gear coming to a stop, avoiding the constant downshift of the auto mode.

Then toggle back into auto S mode, when I want to drive more sporty.

Someone suggested to use manual and drag the rear brake, when having to drive off and making a U turn, this is handy when tilting the bike sharply in a parking lot or gas station.

Toggling between D mode, and S mode, seems to confuse the up or down shift, for a few seconds, and I have found myself not doing this especially when in turns.

What works best for you?

Standard transmission and clutch are tools, many never learn the capability of these tools, so missing them is not a big deal and why something such as a DCT works for them.

Standard transmission and clutch are tools, many never learn the capability of these tools, so missing them is not a big deal and why something such as a DCT works for them.

Post number two.....didn't take long for this thread to go down the sewer.....what a load of.......

snip

Someone suggested to use manual and drag the rear brake, when having to drive off and making a U turn, this is handy when tilting the bike sharply in a parking lot or gas station.

Toggling between D mode, and S mode, seems to confuse the up or down shift, for a few seconds, and I have found myself not doing this especially when in turns.

What works best for you?

The rear brake technique in slow tight maneuvers is very useful.

DCT and other seamless shift systems are the way of the future for ultimate performance. Grand Prix and MotoGP have adopted it fully. It brings down lap times. Far superior to clutch shift transmissions as it gives you instant drive in which ever gear you select, shifting in corners, seamless power delivery.

I thought I might get others who have it to add some nuance of how and when they use what setting for a suggestion.

I should have asked that those who think the DCT is useless to describe fully how they use the clutch and lever.

So often it is exactly the same people who cant type, and have little knowledge of any of proper shifting techniques.

But I can take the criticism, and agree with the above, I doubt is he has ever used one.

Facts like the DCT being used in drag racing, performace racing, and moto-GP are missing from his comments.

anyone have anything to add about how they use their DCT?

Standard transmission and clutch are tools, many never learn the capability of these tools, so missing them is not a big deal and why something such as a DCT works for them.

Ok, spud786 is getting some blow back because his comment seems to relegate the DCT to something less than a clutch equipped bike and those that ride them do so because they lack clutch skills. Maybe for some he is correct. But I'd bet every member on this site who has a 1200 DCT is very clutch savvy from previous experience, thus are more qualified to comment on the shifting differences than those who haven't ridden a DCT for more than a few miles.

From my experience the 1200 FD (DCT) can do anything the 1200 F bike can do except wheelies. For me, it is the best of both worlds. D mode exclusively for streets and freeways - why hassle shifting? Absolutely no need unless you want to do wheelies or rev your motor (which can be done on the DCT using the N mode). In the corners, clutch-less manual shift is hard to beat. After a recent long 1100 mile tour through nothing but windy back roads, I perfected the technique using the M mode. What an advantage I had on the others - no more blipping throttles and timing shifts, no more upset chassis. Just clean smooth power transfer and more bandwidth to focus on the ride. Not to imply you can't do this with a properly ridden clutch bike, but for me, it seems unnecessary now. I think Honda has something here, I really do. Too bad DCT is likely going to be shelved, because with some refinements it would be truly revolutionary.

On how I use my DCT:
Commute 80%, use D mode exclusively. Avoid S mode as it has funky shift points that never seem to match my use.
Sport 20%, use combo D and Manual. Again S mode never matches my situation.

Speaking of refinements, maybe allowing programmable, or selectable S mode settings? Maybe for D mode too as auto shifting up to 6th gear by the time you get to 35 mph seems odd, but no issue with the torque the bike has.



I know a bit about clutch bikes, as I've ridden and raced dozens of them on and off-road for 46 years. I currently own nine motorcycles (4 street, 5 dirt), all have clutches except the 1200 DCT.

Fast takeoffs be in manual from sport, front brake rev but don't move.  Pin the throttle and somewhere before 10,000 RPM hit the manual to put it in sport.  Shifts at 10,000 every shift till you let off.  Down shift in manual to hear the throttle blip to match revs.  Pull up at stop light beside another bike. Let go of handle bars. Grab gas just as light changes. Watch the other bike stare as I motor off. I have used the DCT and it is good.

I use sport mode 90% of the time on backroads. In sport mode the more aggressive you are with the throttle the shifts points change accordingly. Lets say i just finished 5 miles of twisties in sport mode,now the road turns into a more mundane ride and the bike is in 5th gear, i'll tap the upshift button on the left handle bar and now i'll be in manual 6th gear. Now after a few miles the road turns into twisties again, I will tap the right handle bar button and be in sport mode again....ready for seamless shifting (up and down) The great thing about DCT is the fact that the shifts are seamless EVEN while leaned way over and attacking the backroads. It lets the rider focus on your line,braking and throttle control.

Plus you can have manual control of your shifts, if you want that too.

Drive mode is only used on the slab.

I sure would like to have a 3rd generation of DCT on the next gen VFR 1200 to choose from....or a 3rd gen DCT on the VFR1000 with chain drive....

Suzukijo, my riding style is similar to yours;  I use D mode in traffic to chug around town.  I also use S mode similar to you, except we don't have canyons here in North Florida,  all roads are straight and flat.  However, I drop in S mode when I want to rapidly accelerate to merge onto the freeway/interstate.  I also ride  in S mode when  I want to ride with some of my buddies with Hayabusas and R1s.  I am right there with them until well into the triple digits (closed course only).  I never miss a shift and gear changes are lightning fast, maybe that's  what keeps me in  the mix.  Anyway, I can focus on riding and  not have to worry about over revving. I toggle back and forth to manual when I want to stay in a specific gear or just want to use the engine for braking when decelerating.  I just love the way the system blips the throttle and matches the revs.

This is not an automatic, but a manual with two clutches.  In my cars, the torque converter creates a delay when the gears change (you know what I mean) but on the DCT the shifts are instantaneous with absolutely no delay.  It's like a quick shifter  or even faster. I feel like I'm in a jet fighter or an F1 formula race car, Ha ha. 

Anyway, I'm not giving up my DCT (because someone else doesn't like it).  They can ridicule me all they want. I'm smiling every time I ride, and yes, all my other bikes have been manuals, so I know how to shift.  They were enjoyable too but I still love this DCT.

P.S.  Have you ever been to Daytona during Bike Week?  You sit in traffic for hours, just moving inches at a time. Some riders get hand cramps from constantly pulling and releasing their clutches.  I just sit there with my arms folded until it's time to move up.  Ha Ha again.

Well, some seem to think there was some insinuation that you don't understand the original question.

As a reference, I mentioned that even with a manual clutch, it has its use.

So Does the Dual clutch.

That you would think, obviously from your first reply, that someone would purchase a Dual clutch, for reasons that they could never master a single, is what everyone else here doesn't understand.

No one mentioned mud.

There was some references on how other use their dual clutch.

That you seem to be unable to consider a Dual clutch as an improvement, is what it is.

Referencing that a point was dragged through the mud, you made your point, you can put your hat back on.

I see your interceptor has abs, so your saying, you never mastered braking?

right. got it.

Suzukijo,

I have owned both models.  I use mine 99% of the time in manual mode. When I take it to the canyons on the weekends, I sometimes use S mode, but again mostly in manual mode.  I think the dual clutch is tits and I am totally won over. I'm probably going to buy a 911 next year and I will definitely get a dual clutch on that car.  For the record, I also race SV650 and do supermoto track days regularly on my KTM 690 SM. 

BTW, don't feed the trolls and haters. Ignore their post and the thread will straighten itself out.  They are just jelly anyway. :cool:

http://youtu.be/oSBiH-AQtWs

When I first read about the DCT, so many of the testors seemed to lock into just one of the settings, "put it in S mode", "put it in manual mode", and when I first got mine, I did that, but eventually began experimenting.

Of course, each mode has its "personality", and I quickly began to realize changing back and forth while riding seemed to confuse the brain, and after a few seconds of thought it would downshift unexpectedly.

Riding my bike to work, affords me the opportunity to grasp, that I had to ride it to work one day, all in one mode.

then riding in a different mode, another day, with each day having some different riding conditions, Long straights, tight corners, traffic.

with time, eventually I began to 'sense', what each mode had that benefited its peculiar operation.

One tip someone suggested, was to use manual, when making U-Turns, and dragging the rear brake, this was very helpful, in being able to control the lean, in tight turning.

I can easily see that soon I will have the ECU reflashed.

So trying to get some sense of what it has before I do that, I began to ride it harder than I had, and actually did a wheelie, while in S mode, coming out of a tight corner.

And that's with the DCT! So yes, as with other bikes, just hammering the throttle hard, will pick up the front end.

Someone else, mentioned, that while in S mode, they used the right front MT/AT toggle, to transition between sport and manual,

This is good advice, as I find myself doing same. While in S mode, there are times I would like it to shift to higher gear, toggling into manual and 4-5-6 calms the engine and downshifts, and a quick MT/AT toggle brings S mode back.

I may be peculiar, in that changing between S mode, and D mode, the switch, away from my right hand is difficult to access, as I have to let go the throttle, so instead I use my left hand, reach over and toggle it.

Much simpler in the MT/AT right front toggle, when in S mode alone. If you know what I mean.

Of course, D mode I use in stop and go traffic, and similar to previously mentioned, stopped at a light, I can sit arms folded, and with the pesky 600 sport bike racer revving his engine, clunking it into gear, revving wildly as he takes off, I reach out, grab the bars, and within 100 yards or so have left him trying to find his footpegs as he wobbles away from the light.

wrapping up, there seems to be a few good suggestions here.

1. Use manual M mode, and drag the rear brake making U turns.

2. When brisk riding, S mode, toggling the MT/AT right front finger, to use MT as a quick solution to get 4-5-6th gear, and when needed toggle back to AT "S" mode, for acceleration and back to brisk riding.

3. M mode for traffic and gentle neighborhood, with the MT/AT mode to use like from S mode, to keep it in 2-3rd gear for slow riding without the logic upshifting, downshifting, all the time, as one would use normally.

I was hoping there would be something else, some neat trick, or more, and with time I may find that or have someone else mention it.

I worked as  motorcycle line tech, Honda Suzuki BMW for 30 years, and have ridding pretty much everything, Road racing in the seventies-eighties, Last MX classification was Vet EX, and when riding standard manual transmission bikes, I have peculiar habits, some think are not necessary, while others have commented they are pro techniques.

Experiencing the DCT, is a new dimension of riding, I apologize if I fall into the argument when I am accused of not knowing how to use a clutch, when I doubt if they do.

Side-Note...

In panic situations, like when a car quickly pulls over into my lane in traffic, I instinctively reach for the clutch as I brake. Silly, this, there is no lever there.

Since the Seventies, I developed a habit it using my heel to kick the shift lever down into neutral, when coming to a light. Silly, this, there is no lever there. This I have learned to eliminate, and keep my foot on the peg.

One thing no one mentioned is the operation of the downshift button, (and the S mode, D mode) using ones thumb. This is not as easy as it sounds, and it is much easier with the downshift, than the S-D change.

I sometimes, ride with my left hand with thumb up, pushing with my palm on the grip, this is cruising mode. Even worse, I put my left hand on my hip, when doodling, some others I have seen ride similarly.

It just may be that I have been riding since I was 14, that's 49 years now, and its always been the same.

Now with the DCT, its fresh ground to recognize, when to right finger to manual, left thumb downshift to first, drag rear brake, ...

Then right finger to AT, left hand over to swap D mode to S mode, then quickly return hand to ready function for whatever in S mode....

Of course, this all makes it seem so difficult, when other times, the logic seems to understand exactly what I want, and it either upshifts, or downshifts, by itself, and I am amazed all I had to do was work the throttle.

Maybe, some of the other DCT owners sense this, for those that have not had one for a week to get a sense of it all, I doubt it will make any sense.

I like the DCT, my last 3 bikes were CB1000R, VFR800, and GSF1250.

One funny story, was where I work, some of the younger guys who all have bikes were going to ride up a nearby canyon (Lake Hughes Road) after work, and although I had heard about it all day, none of them asked me along.

At the last minute, one of them casually said I could ride along, I had my 1250 back then, and asked if I thought I "could make it". Little did he know that when the local roads all got washed out in '04 I had to take it to get to work, and with time I had made a little song, or poem about it, since it has no rhythm, and blind U turns with sandy corners, dog-legs, some sections with very rough pavement, has caused a few of them to crash on it.

As we left, I went quickly to the front, left the group, and was off my bike at the end, with enough time to sit and wait 40 yards from it, by the time they all finally started filtering in.

Next day, one of them, walked up to me and said, "Sorry, I didn't know".

I guess they all thought I was grampa, and would be the slowest. Little did they know, all their Rossi decals and fancy phone apps, wouldn't help them when it came time to actually ride a bike.

No bragging, but the DCT is a peculiar style of motorcycle, and it has impressed me at times.

Other times, I feel like the guy standing in the back of a truck when someone takes off un expectedly.

when I finally work through all the iterations of it downshifting when I least expect it, I will feel like I have total control.

lets hope by then, I have that down, and the reflash will become an asset, and not a hindrance.

Couple things more, I cannot put it into neutral when rolling, and I cant put it into gear when rolling. Bike must be stopped.

I can see the reason for this, but after years of snicking it into neutral coming to a stop light, it would be nice, but cant be done. Now it seems manual function is cycle best at that time, or is it?

stinky finger, next time you ride out, sned me a pm, maybe we can meet up, newcombs?

I live north of Fayettenam.  Traffic here is terrible.  Before I lost my DCT to a blind cager, I rode in traffic in manual. It kept me in the power range at all times. It saved me quite a few times.  When you are door high on a cager and they decide to invade your lane, being in the power band lets you squirt through before they mash you.  Of course in their mind you flew up beside them from behind. at an incredible rate of speed.  You were  flying. They didn't do anything wrong.  I've had them miss my rear tire by inches as they finish their move into my lane.  The v12 can move in an instant. It also made a little bit more noise to get their attention.  Even in a cage I avoid fayetteville. Perfect place for those with a death wish.

Bill

Obviously I love the DCT, it takes me anywhere I want to go and let's me really enjoy riding. I like the flexibility between D, S, and Manual, it makes normal rides much more interesting and even makes the dreaded boring City rides semi fun. I noticed that the new Yamaha 2015 YZF-R1 is coming out with a DCT this year that's pushing 230 hp so others seem to be looking at DCT as well. Who knows maybe Honda won't be shelving the DCT too soon just because it's just slightly ahead of its time.

Suzukijo, not to be presumptuous, but you can override any auto mode (D or S) by simply pressing the up or down paddles on the left.  This will put you in manual mode immediately and in the next higher or lower gear, no need to toggle the AT/Manual button on the right hand side.   However, if you want to revert back to auto mode, then you must toggle the right hand button.  It is my understanding that the 2012 models and newer have improved software and logic that remembers you were in auto mode upon stopping, and return you back to auto after the complete stop, whereby my 2010 I must toggle back to auto mode on the right hand after a stop.  Someone with the 2012 or higher may want to chime in to confirm this or correct me.  I hope this helps.  I find the DCT really easy to operate and a boatload of fun.

Thanks,

anbark22

I see, yes, I do that. With my '12 pressing the up or down paddles, will downshift, or upshift, but it will resume - revert back to what it was in.

This function I do use, but its temporary.

I hope this doesn't sound like I know it all, thank you for mentioning that.

riding in D mode, not using the downshift, nailing it, or using the down button, will get it in a lower gear, (sometimes 2) but it will stay in D mode.

I have started to experiment with downshifts and upshifts in S mode.

it seems up shift in S mode wont happen until about 5k. under that, I might as well hit the high beam switch to shift.

with time, I will have it down.

I do think getting some discussion about the buttons, how we use them, might get some insight into something useful.

I have read where my '12 has different logic than the '10, the '10 I did ride was manual clutch.

also, one of my 'bad habits', was keeping the throttle on, when in turns, using the brakes, with a manual clutch.

This seems to confuse it, and I don't have much experience with it, so many of my 'old habits' just don't work with the DCT.

with a manual clutch bike, sometimes, I would enter a turn, with throttle on, front brake on, and use the clutch coming out, old mx habit I guess.

This is not as useful with the DCT, especially in slow corners, not that I cant clutch it, just throttle on and brake on, it doesn't like, or I don't like the downshift action, its disruptive to smoothness.

did I mention I ride funny?

Probably the worse function is the DCT downshifting, when it wants. slowing briskly it seems transparent, but slowing steadily, the trans seems to catch me especially if rounding a turn, the front tucks.

this is often where, for me, manual, works best, as it seems to downshift without the least interference, that's all.

thx for the input, curious to hopefully find someone is doing something I am not, and finding out about it, experiment with it.

off for a sunday ride tomorrow, and I'll keep in mind all the suggestions so far.

some freeway, some canyons, some neighborhoods, I will be riding with the wife, so will be on my best behavior.

Suzukijo, not to be presumptuous, but you can override any auto mode (D or S) by simply pressing the up or down paddles on the left.  This will put you in manual mode immediately and in the next higher or lower gear, no need to toggle the AT/Manual button on the right hand side.   However, if you want to revert back to auto mode, then you must toggle the right hand button.  

I see, yes, I do that. With my '12 pressing the up or down paddles, will downshift, or upshift, but it will resume - revert back to what it was in.

This function I do use, but its temporary.

I didn't know the 2012 did this behavior. My 2010 gets out of auto shift mode the second I hit a '+' or '-' trigger. In fact, I usually roll on the throttle in D or S mode when I'm pulling out of my drive way and go into manual mode by downshifting once I get to the first stop sign on my street. It then just stays in manual for the rest of the commute subconsciously.  I would probably use the S or D mode more if it would go back to an auto mode after downshift. 

also, one of my 'bad habits', was keeping the throttle on, when in turns, using the brakes, with a manual clutch.

This seems to confuse it, and I don't have much experience with it, so many of my 'old habits' just don't work with the DCT.

with a manual clutch bike, sometimes, I would enter a turn, with throttle on, front brake on, and use the clutch coming out, old mx habit I guess.

This is not as useful with the DCT, especially in slow corners, not that I cant clutch it, just throttle on and brake on, it doesn't like, or I don't like the downshift action, its disruptive to smoothness.

did I mention I ride funny?

My habit I had to fight was chopping the throttle when manually shifting.  I'm still doing it once in a while, even after 4 years of owning this bike!  It usually happens in the first 5 minutes of riding the VFR after I been riding my KTM for a few days. The other bad habits is I still find myself honking the horn on the KTM whilst looking for an imaginarily paddle! :laugh:  I have also forgot to downshift on the KTM when pulling up to the same first stop sign and stall it out.

Yes, with my '12 VFR1200DCT, if you are in S or D mode, and use the left + or - finger triggers to up or downshift, it will.

but that is for that one shift, it will then revert back to what it was in, S or D mode, as soon as the throttle is lifted and it decides on its own to up shift, which is usually how I ride that transition.

the most difficult thing so far, is to try and make a very tight u turn, or circle. manual first, dragging the rear brake is the only way I know of.

with normal hand clutch, its simple to pitch the bike down, and fan the clutch as one blips the throttle. mx style.

the dct doesn't like throttle on while decelerating. some might ask, why I would ride that way, its habit from mx racing to pull in clutch, rev engine, downshift, hit apex, dump clutch with throttle on wfo.

The dct is subtle in its actions, I do find using the downshift paddle, when in D mode is seamless as can be, better than letting it act on its own.

I hope this all doesn't seem like complaining,  its not.

the dct is very functionable, doing its thing, and it is living in 2014.

a far cry from my first bike, a Honda C-200, pushrod 90cc.

I think you should sell your bike and get a manual model, that's if you like the 1200 if not, make sure that you get what you like next time, I pick mine from a dealer 60 miles away from home and I loved it half way all your excuses about DCT are stupid to me like switching from manual to auto with your left hand?????.

[video: http://youtube.com/embed/fWQRJmN1zmg?html5=1&fs=1]

Dang, you guys are making me want to get a DCT again! I've still never tried one, though I did ride a 1200 single clutch. I think I'd prefer the DCT packaged in an ST1300. Maybe someday that bike will get updated... :goofy:

when changing with right hand, one needs to let the grip go, to reach the switch.

when changing with the left hand, one can keep the throttle on, and simply toggle to other.

you seem to think I didn't like my purchase, that's not true, or that I didn't know what I was getting.

how do you use your dct?

Dang, you guys are making me want to get a DCT again! I've still never tried one, though I did ride a 1200 single clutch. I think I'd prefer the DCT packaged in an ST1300. Maybe someday that bike will get updated... :goofy:

Me too . . . I'd really like to ride one to experience it, especially how the clutch picks up the engine's torque leaving a stop. It's an impressive piece of engineering.

I use my DCT 99% manual, D is to easy on mi, D sport is more like it, but I don't like when it up or down shifts in or out of a curve, also I like to keep my RPM above at least 4000rpm on any gear, I have two sets of gloves winter are bulky but I can reach all buttons with my right index, summer one are half finger so it's even easier all the buttons are in my head and when I need to change it's just automatic thinking.

I too agree, "I don't like when it up or down shifts in or out of a curve", this is the one time the auto, shift will not be welcomed. when I first got mine, I would sometime experiment with the buttons, and doing so, when going into a turn, is not best. having it downshift, into a turn, when toggling between modes, is like standing in the back of a pickup, when someone else is driving and puts on the brakes, when you don't expect it.

This isn't a problem, after finding that one situation, I just don't do it.

very similar to downshifting a normal bike, and letting the clutch out quickly, on deceleration.

Those that think this is a problem, cant recognize, that with a normal hand clutch, I could comment about a dozen situations, that would be difficult, but they would then say, don't do that.

With the DCT, I wanted to experiment with all situations, and finding the few odd ones, I just know not to do that.

that's all.

I was just curious, as to if someone found an interesting application, that I had not experienced, you know, sometimes, 50/50 can make something good, best.

I guess with the dct the only problem is that you can't take the power from the rear wheel you have to stay in the right gear at the right speed and rpm specially in thigh turns when approaching to fast and want to get out fast it does feel like the swing arm gives to much I wonder if there are stiffer bushings available??