Brake Piston Damage Gen 8

8 months old, ridden through winter, rinsed daily, brakes were getting a bit sticky so took 'em off and cleaned them up tonight. 4 pots have chunks out of 'em. Worth a warranty claim? Seems a bit poor to me 

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It's always worth a Warranty claim

We sound like we're in quite similar situations - bike's coming up on 10 months old, I use it to commute, so it's used everyday, through all weathers, although I don't rinse it at night (generous application on acf50 on all the exposed metal parts, and weekly/fortnightly clean).

Anyway, I just whipped off one of my calipers to have a look at my pistons and it does seem like there are some small chips in 2 of them, not quite as severe as yours appears, but the other caliper might be worse I guess...

I've never seen this on my previous bikes, so I'd say go for it with the warranty claim, and let me know what Honda say, 'cos I might well have to put it my own claim.

Actually, thinking about it, these calipers are lifted straight from the Fireblade, aren't they? So I would assume that all the pistons and what-not are also the same as appears on the Fireblade?

Do we know of any similar issues reported by any 'blade riders?

The only other thing I can think is that the brake pistons for the first batch of 8th Gens were manufactured from inferior material...

I was pretty shocked when I saw it. They are off the blade and also on some GSXRs I think. I have posted the pics on another forum and the conclusion was someone has damaged them at the factory. I have emailed the pics to my Honda dealer tonight but might nip over theer later in the week

Ok, well keep us (me) posted!

How many miles on your bikes? That would be a better marker than age.

3000 miles

well I've spoken to my Honda dealer. Service manager looked at pic, didn't look at bike and immediately says "corrosion, salt damage, you've not been looking after it". I counter that whilst I have ridden through winter I have actualy rinsed this bike after every ride (the truth) including a rinse of the brakes and that I do not see how it is a viable prospect to own a Hinda if they need 8 new brake pistons every spring. He will submit a claim for me. Initially he said he wanted the bike in the workshop for 3 days to take photos to send , I said "give me 30mins and a socket set and I will have them off for you to take pics if needs be" so he then relented and said he could use my pics I have already taken. He then said what they might actually need to do is take the bike in, remove the pistons and send them to Honda so they might need the bike for 3-4 weeks FFS. And I guess if at this point if they won't pay for it then I end up paying Honda money for them to be sorted. I called at my tame mechanic who said various things like "shocking, terrible quality" . Now when he does my servicing he puts red grease on the pistons for winter protection. Honda have not done this. Like a fool I had my first service at Honda to keep everything straight for the warranty. I suspect had I used my usual man they might not have got in this state. If I do end up having to pay then I won't be going to Honda to have them done. Oddly, despite Suzukis dreadful reputation the V-strom was the bike which never had any corrosion issues

I just checked mine at 4600 miles, with a dental mirror and I could see about 3/4 of the exposed pistons and there was no damage. I live in California and have not ridden it in the rain (what rain). Looking at your pictures, the damage looks like fractures in a metal that has crystalized, not corrosion, which takes a long time to form. Some debris might have gotten between piston and back of pads and with the tremendous pressure, chipped off some pieces, still should not happen. Vendor for calipers is Tokico, which I have never heard of before. I will keep checking them over time, and I hope anyone else with a gen 8 can comment on theirs. Like I said, a quick inspection with a dental mirror and a flashlight should give you a pretty good result.

Please post your pictures on VFRWorld as well, more exposure will yield better answers.

Sorry to hear this happened to your bike. Does seem like you should be able to ride it in all types of weather--I mean really. Especially since VFRs have a reputation for lasting forever.  

Hope honda takes care of you

I'm hoping. This is my first big Honda. At £10,400 it was £1500 more (around $2200) than eg a Kawa z1000sx but I went with the Honda as after a string of Suzukis and Kawazakis I fancied something with a reputation for quality and was willing to pay for it. If I am stuck with a bill to sort this I guess I am looking at about £400 and I will not be giving Honda any of my cash in future

anyway, I have stuck this on VFR World as well. I will keep you all posted 

http://vfrworld.com/...2828#post472828

Mine's at about 8500 miles - will be taking the callipers off again this weekend and giving them a good clean up to properly examine the pistons.

vtwindr - who's your Honda dealer?

Rochdale Honda

TBH if I end up paying I've been told about £30/piston + £50 seal kit + labour. So £350-400. I have found Brembo monoblocks on ebay for £450 with new pads. Seems a better option than a refurb

thats crazy!  :ohmy:

 i am working in a 1971 cb750 that has the original brakes on it..  and they look almost perfect.

just wearlines.. no chips and oly a few pits  in the forward exposed area.

 no way in hell would i pay to have this fixed not on a bike less than a year old!!

 honda can pay for it.!!!

Showed your pictures to a Honda Auto mechanic at work, and they have NEVER seen pistons do that. It think it is a metallurgical failure.

Hi Vtwindr. This is serious stuff, have never in my days seen anything like it especially considering the age of your bike, gotta be a Warranty Claim. Agree with Allyance - metallurgical failure.
Removed my callipers today and all pistons look fine, bike 7 months old 14,000kms.
Best of luck, hopefully Honda should give you a new set of callipers.
Cheers.
Grum.

Had the calipers off earlier, took the pads out and gave the pistons a quick clean up for a proper look: 7 out of 8 pistons chipped! (pics below)

Looks like I'll have to be making a claim with my dealer now...

vtwindr how are you getting on with yours, they say anything yet?

Left Calliper

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Right Calliper

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There has to be a reason they're all chipped at that same "inside" location.  Could it just be road debris finding its way up there and hitting them?  Seems far fetched, but if it were corrosion or some other metallurgic problem, they wouldn't have that matching pattern.

no reponse from the dealer yet. I sent my pics to them on Thurs as they were being a tad awkward about how we were gonna do this as noted in my post above. Not heard anything back yet. Might be worth approaching your dealer as well, if Honda UK get a couple of claims in they might take it more seriously

whilst it has been colder than average this winter I would say there has only been salt down on the roads for a couple of weeks. Never had this on previous bikes which have been ridden in worse winters. I suspect the pistons aren't fit for purpose. Only other thing I can think is the OE pads have a metal backing plate on them and I wonder if there has been some electrolytic reaction between the backing and the piston

cjb, are you on facebook? I posted to the page of https://www.facebook.com/HondaMotoUKwhich they ignored so I sent the pic as a personal message to them. They were non-commital but again might be worth you adding your pics

Even if something got up in there it still seems like they shouldn't chip like that.  I mean if this is an issue with brakes then what the heck do people with off road bikes do? Any honda Crossrunner people listening to this?

Really seems like honda needs to take care of this.  I mean if they don't then what does that say about their 1 year warranty???

Regardless, I really do hope honda takes care of this for you guys

If they do not fix this it will be my first and last big honda. Which is a shame as I love the bike but I am not replacing 8 pistons every yr and nor do I see why I should do a monthly strip , clean and grease of the calipers

There was a post on another forum about a CBR that had same problem & Honda replaced, keep after them.

Do you have a link that?

My 4th gen (50,000 miles) brake pistons looked clatty and needed a good clean but NO chipping..

https://forum.motorc...0r-front-brakes

Link to CBR brakes

great stuff, thanks for that

Result: Honda are covering new pistons , seals and labour. Think they might be wanting me to pay for new pads but that will be negotiated

Great news! Yeah for Honda.

Glad to hear it, sounds fair. Can't fault Honda, they didn't make them, just their OEM supplier.

Yeah for Honda!

Good to hear it.

Hopefully that's a good sign for my claim as well.

Did Honda offer up any more information about why this happened? Like a bad batch of pistons or something? Or should we be expecting to have them replaced again next year as well? 

nope. Bearing in mind no-one at my dealers has actually looked at them yet they just saw my pics. Service manager is adamant it's down to roadsalt and is surprised they have allowed it. I was planning on using my independent for 12month service but I guess I'd better keep it with Honda for now in case they go again. If they do go again then I'm afraid that'll be it for me and the VFR which is a real shame as it's a great bike. Seems odd though. 7/8 pistons have damage, 3 are really bad, the others are more like what you have. I will be keeping a close eye though and will be doing a caliper removal and clean every couple of months from now I guess, maybe more in winter. In fact, I have a second bike (W650) and might just use that in winter but it's a bugger to clean

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Good to hear it.

Hopefully that's a good sign for my claim as well.

Did Honda offer up any more information about why this happened? Like a bad batch of pistons or something? Or should we be expecting to have them replaced again next year as well? 

 what was your dealers reaction?

nope. Bearing in mind no-one at my dealers has actually looked at them yet they just saw my pics. Service manager is adamant it's down to roadsalt and is surprised they have allowed it.

Sounds like the dealer is covering his ass.  I've had my '97 out in all kinds of winter salt crap, just leaving it to drip dry in my garage each time, even had it out in all the saltwater drek from Hurricane Sandy blown onto it at 50 MPH and never even rinsed it down afterward, unless you count riding it through calf-high water from the Hackensack River, and the only brake problem I ever had was one corroded seal causing a little piston sticking.

And I think about all the shit my Honda Accord goes through, also pretty much rode hard through shit that's so bad that the plows give up, 'n put away wet, and in 200,000 miles I've never needed a caliper rebuild.

Perhaps strictly speaking the assessment is accurate, about it being road salt.  However that is not an acceptable weakness.

Saw this one in town a few winters ago............

what will his brake pistons look like eh??

"where is the love....."

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I recon the dealer is reluctant because due to the power of internet, more owners will come forward.

and it would not surprise me if Honda HQ pays a minimum amount towards the dealer's time to do the work...

nope. Bearing in mind no-one at my dealers has actually looked at them yet they just saw my pics. Service manager is adamant it's down to roadsalt and is surprised they have allowed it.

Sounds like the dealer is covering his ass.  I've had my '97 out in all kinds of winter salt crap, just leaving it to drip dry in my garage each time, even had it out in all the saltwater drek from Hurricane Sandy blown onto it at 50 MPH and never even rinsed it down afterward, unless you count riding it through calf-high water from the Hackensack River, and the only brake problem I ever had was one corroded seal causing a little piston sticking.

And I think about all the shit my Honda Accord goes through, also pretty much rode hard through shit that's so bad that the plows give up, 'n put away wet, and in 200,000 miles I've never needed a caliper rebuild.

Perhaps strictly speaking the assessment is accurate, about it being road salt.  However that is not an acceptable weakness.

As I remember you guys in NY have had a pretty tough winter. How are your brakes holding up on your 8th?

As I remember you guys in NY have had a pretty tough winter. How are your brakes holding up on your 8th?

No problem, but that might have something to do with me not having ridden in a couple of months.  I just took the bike out last night for the first time in a while.  I really didn't feel like subjecting my brand new bike to all that shit, especially when I do put it away wet.  And the streets are in absolutely awful condition with all the potholes.  Someone around Riverhead actually died on their bike a day or two ago due to a pothole.

If next winter is this bad I'm buying a KLR just to ride in the winter.

parts now in, complete new calipers. They still want me to pay for the pads and if I want a courtesy bike it'll be £20 + £1000 excess. Whilst I am pleased Honda are replacing the damaged parts I can't say the dealer is bending over backwards on this.,Nothing seemed too much trouble when I wanted a test ride 7 months ago

Pads are generally wear items except on some upscale cars.  Did the piston failures actually affect the pads??

Replacement of the calipers and subsequent brake line bleeding should be do-able while you wait.  Arrange it with the shop and make an appointment.

parts now in, complete new calipers. They still want me to pay for the pads and if I want a courtesy bike it'll be £20 + £1000 excess. Whilst I am pleased Honda are replacing the damaged parts I can't say the dealer is bending over backwards on this.,Nothing seemed too much trouble when I wanted a test ride 7 months ago

Sorry to hear about the issues you're having with your new VFR.  I would seriously consider writing to Honda UK.  The VFR trades on its reputation for reliablility and quality, and you pay a premium for it (look at the price vs an S1000SX for example).  I also think your dealer is treating you pretty poorly.  I would let Honda UK know about your problem, that you bought the bike based on the VFR's reputation for build quality and reliabillty, and that a lot of VFR enthusiasts (and potential 8th Gen owners) both sides of the Atlantic are waiting to see how this turns out.  If Honda still value their reputation (and that of the VFR) they should put it right for you (including free pads and loan bike, as a minimum) .  If not, it says to me that the 8th Gen, and Honda, is trading on its reputation, not realilty, and would certainly make a lot of older VFR owners think again about getting an 8th Gen (and we make up a large proportion of the target audience).  If your experience puts off just one future buyer, that will cost them more than a set of pads!   Hope this helps and good luck.

I would have thought they could swap 'em in an hour or so but they want it all day. Who know why. Pads have done 3000miles but they insist I need new ones . They won't charge me labour for pad fitting though (probably because they cannot break down their hourly rate into the 10 seconds it would take to pop them in as the calipers are already off the bike) . I have emailed HondaUK to see if tehy can move on the pads