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Visit To Bmw Dealer Saved Me 20K

51 posts Started 21 Jul 2015 Last recovered post 26 Aug 2015 Wayback Machine snapshot 18 May 2016

#1

Went and test rode the BMW R1200RS today. I had high expectations because on paper it is far better than the VFR: more power, less weight and more features. But my trip saved me $20,000 because I hated it. That was my first experience with the boxer engine. I thought I was shopping for a motorcycle, but it felt more like farm equipment. That boxer sounds and feels like a diesel. The bike handled well, had good brakes, and was comfortable, but the engine was terrible! Also, I thought the controls felt numb. Clutch and braking were very difficult to control smoothly as they just felt soft with no feedback. I also think the VFR feels far more sporty and has more character. The BMW did feel lighter which makes the VFR feel like a pig after, but I quickly re-acclimated and forgot all about it. At least I know I will not shop for a boxer in the foreseeable future.

The VFR is truly special in the world of motorcycles. People who question the "best bike ever" mantra have never experienced one. I'm starting to think a new 7th or 8th gen just might be the perfect bike.

Edited 21 Jul 2015 by ridered
#2

Rider, I've owned a couple boxers. An old R65LS and my last one being a R1200s. Love the heritage with the motor, and always was a fan of the airheads. Especially the R100RS = a true classic imho. However, the V-4 is mesmerizing. I sold my 5th gen for the 1200 and regretted it so much I got back into a sixth gen. I find the VFR engine and bike so much more refined and polished. The sound of the V-4 is also tremendously addictive. The only problem with a VFR is that getting anything else after is really tough. You need to know that going in. :goofy:

#3

Have you tried a vfr1200f?

#4

If you want to keep that 20 large in the pocket do NOT ride a 2015 Multistrada...I am thinking of selling 4-5 of my V4's to pay for one.

#5

Or an Aprilia RSV4 that's the next bike since Honda will not build us the bike that many of the VFR diehard fans want.

#6
deltaboxii

Or an Aprilia RSV4 that's the next bike since Honda will not build us the bike that many of the VFR diehard fans want.

That is my go to bike if Honda doesn't come out with a non-vtec 1000cc VFR before I fail spectacularly at building a >920cc V4 for a project bike from a couple of 5G engines.

But for me to get rid of the ST1300 that I take when my wife joins me on rides I would have to have a bike that is larger than a current 600RR (and the RSV4 feels smaller than current 600RRs) hence the Ducati love.

If she hadn't been in California for a few weeks when the Ducati demo trailer came through GA last month I would have had her confirm that the pillion of the Multistrada is good enough to send the ST packing. Everything else about that bike does it for me.

#7

Oh yea, RSV4 and Multi are apples and oranges. The Multis are awesome machines no doubt, would be a more than worthy replacement for mile crunching after the ST.

Shame that Honda doesn't see fit to really replace the aging ST 1300 either with a worthy successor. The ST has had a pretty strong and loyal fan base as well.

#8

I've been eyeing the Multistrada too...I am so afraid to ride one as I've heard from several MS riders that you'll instantly fall in love with it. I think for me too, the pillion section is where the deciding factor would be. My wife likes the 6 gen but the accommodations for her are not that accommodating. So can I squeeze in that 4th bike? Maybe I can sell the car?!

#9

I test rode the Multistrada when shopping for my next bike. Loved the electronic on-the-fly suspension adjustments and just about everything else...except it sat too high. I just wasn't looking for a dual sport ride for street use.

#10
Marsman99

I test rode the Multistrada when shopping for my next bike. Loved the electronic on-the-fly suspension adjustments and just about everything else...except it sat too high. I just wasn't looking for a dual sport ride for street use.

The 2015 has a seat that can be lowered by approximately 20mm in 10 minutes or less by removing the spacer of the body work below the seat.

While we are giving the safety briefing before each group ride the Ducati tech would ensure that the shortest person who wanted to sample a MS was on the short bike. I know what you mean by the high seating arrangement as Earthshake here on the forum calls his MultiStrada a "deer stand" but has decked the pegs on his track days on the bike.

So much technology for the money and now with real variable cam timing to bump the peak power to 160 hp while improving mid range power and torque....what's not to like?

#11

My wife has an R1200RT that I ride quite a bit, and I understand completely. Just when you're expecting to hit the powerband, you hit the redline! And it chugs like a lawn tractor to boot. I have to admit, I like the adjustable windscreen, heated grips, ABS, etc., but the Boxer engine has never made my heart flutter the way a V-4 does.

If you were thinking about an upgrade to the VFR, you might want to consider the BMW K1300S. Lots more horsepower but a little less nimble than a VFR. I'm hoping they upgrade the electronics for 2016 to bring it in line with the S1000.

Oh, and have any of you Multistrada fans tried the BMW S1000XR?

Edited 22 Jul 2015 by RogerRamjet
#12

look up baron von grumble - he does a great review of the XR

#13

This is why I bought a K1300R. Still has pannier option, and can mount a topbox (with parts from SW-Motech).

#14

Why a K1300 over a VFR1200?

#15
dgordon

Rider, I've owned a couple boxers. An old R65LS and my last one being a R1200s. Love the heritage with the motor, and always was a fan of the airheads. Especially the R100RS = a true classic imho. However, the V-4 is mesmerizing. I sold my 5th gen for the 1200 and regretted it so much I got back into a sixth gen. I find the VFR engine and bike so much more refined and polished. The sound of the V-4 is also tremendously addictive. The only problem with a VFR is that getting anything else after is really tough. You need to know that going in. :goofy:

I have an R100RS as well as my 5th gen. The VFR is the more capable bike in all aspects. There is a buyer coming to look at the VFR today.

Honestly I would rather sell the RS. But this is what I have decided on for now.

#16

It takes deep pockets to own and ride a bmw. Both going in and keeping one. I've had a lot of fun with cars, trucks and motorcycles; but always, stuck in my mind, is cost of ownership. I know 'it's a toy', but still. R3~

#17
f3racer

Have you tried a vfr1200f?

That is now on my short list. Looking at one this week. The Multistrada is too tall for my short legs (I'm 5'5") and I want more touring capacity than the Aprilia. If they made the Aprilia into a sports tourer, I'd probably be there. That thing sounds the business.

I'm down to three options: VFR1200, '14+ VFR800, or keep the 5th gen, and get a bigger touring bike, either a ST1300 or FJR1300. Right now the VFR1200 seems to be checking all the boxes, but I won't know until I try it.

I couldn't believe how much I disliked the BMW. The extra power was nice, and it felt new and tight, but the controls were terrible, I couldn't read the dash and the boxer is no V4. It didn't feel like a sport tourer to me. Not much sport. Would be a mediocre tourer too with the noise and vibration it produced.

Maybe what I really want is a time machine to make my bike feel new and tight again.

#18
CornerCarver

If you want to keep that 20 large in the pocket do NOT ride a 2015 Multistrada...I am thinking of selling 4-5 of my V4's to pay for one.

Funny that you should mention this. Last Sunday, I rode a Multistrada - The only bike, I thought that would eventually replace the VFR.

The ride lasted about 1/2 hour and I came off the bike with conflicted feelings.

On one hand, it has waaay more power than the VFR. Handling is good, brakes are way better (although a bit grabby - chuck that to lack of seat time), the looks and the added dividends of being in the Ducati club is something to be considered as well, for those that care.

On the other hand, I was not impressed with ergonomics - My nether region was too intimate with the tank and the handle bars were too close to the body, which made for an awkward seating and hand/arm position. The engine felt... dare I say agricultural and not revvy? Lack of tachometer didn't help either. And then there was that question of extra 20 large.

The final stake was driven into the heart of my Multi dream on the way back home. I enjoyed my viffer that much more. I guess I'm staying.

#19
ridered

Went and test rode the BMW R1200RS today. I had high expectations because on paper it is far better than the VFR: more power, less weight and more features. But my trip saved me $20,000 because I hated it. That was my first experience with the boxer engine. I thought I was shopping for a motorcycle, but it felt more like farm equipment.

LOL! I rode one once (GS1200, I think it was), and I was the same! Not what I expected at all - no big wodge of torque, just noises and sensations that didn't seem directly related to whatever I did with the controls. And it had a terrible windshield: too large and upright (though it was adjustable) so it had terrible buffeting turbulence behind it that made it very noisy to ride. Hated it.
#20

Test rode the 1200GS when it first appeared. A fun 20 minutes, mainly due to the upright seating, wide bars and confidence-inspiring handling but the engine was a pig. And yr right about the discontinuity between the controls and the rider.....it seems curiously disconnected. The F800 was lame too.

The VFR (5th Gen) was a relief to get back onto.

#21

I'm testing a VFR1200 this weekend. If it doesn't make me fall in love, I'm getting a '14 Interceptor. Just sitting on that bike feels right. Just need to test every other option first.


Skids

Test rode the 1200GS when it first appeared. A fun 20 minutes, mainly due to the upright seating, wide bars and confidence-inspiring handling but the engine was a pig. And yr right about the discontinuity between the controls and the rider.....it seems curiously disconnected. The F800 was lame too.

The VFR (5th Gen) was a relief to get back onto.

Skids,

You have owned all 3, 5th gen, VTEC and 1200. If you could own only one, which would it be?

#22

Ridered, think Brian F is selling his 1200

#23

Visit to Ducati dealer COST me 20k

#24

Love Duke's, but have to admit they scare me. I don't have unlimited funds for the service. Some have had great luck, and they are reliable; others not so much. Love them though.

#26
duccmann

Ridered, think Brian F is selling his 1200

I want a manual. Just missed one here in So Cal for $7,000 with only 5K on the clock. Seems everyone wants one now that Honda took it away.

zupatun

[image: Yamaha-FJ-09.jpg]http://www.ridermagazine.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/12/Yamaha-FJ-09.jpg

https://www.google.com/url?sa=i&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=images&cd=&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0CAMQjxxqFQoTCNHG8umc9MYCFQSyFAodDSoF1w&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DZu7FKqMS-4I&ei=1myyVdGDIYTkUo3UlLgN&bvm=bv.98476267,d.d24&psig=AFQjCNFm-yEG-VBbpDkimSBsgjmpK7I3WA&ust=1437842999347225

I rather have this, but I'm too short:

http://www.motorcyclistonline.com/2016-honda-africa-twin-crf1000l-honda-releases-technical-specs-photos-adventure-touring-adv-first

#27

Local dealer has a 2010 with bags, ABS and 7500 miles and they want a ludicrous $9750. I want to test ride it, but don't want to deal with them trying to get me into it and trading my 5th gen.

#29
duccmann

http://orangecounty.craigslist.org/mcy/5117208303.html

SOLD! I was going to see it this weekend. = (

Tested a FJR1300 today. Nice bike, but it isn't sporty enough, and the i4 is a little buzzy after coming from this V4. Man, this 5th gen is just really good. The FJR is the perfect bike to eat up highway miles, but not sporty enough for my only bike. It would have to be an add to the garage. I'll keep looking for a vfr1200 for now.

#30

Bought the GF a nice recliner/sofa today at LazyBoy with the condition that I add a 4th machine to the stable next year. Quid pro quo is a good thing.

I have no idea what I'm looking for. I was finally able to put in some significant saddle time on the 5th Gen today. First time since I've had it, really. No wonder you guys rave about it. It's fabulous. I'm 57 and I can ride the thing all day. Love it.

So, I've got a parallel twin, V twin, V4 so I guess either a thumper or an inline 4 is in order.

BTW, the formula for how many bikes you should own is this; N + 1 (N represents the number of bikes you currently own).

Edited 24 Jul 2015 by ScottyAdams
#31
ridered
duccmann

Ridered, think Brian F is selling his 1200

I want a manual. Just missed one here in So Cal for $7,000 with only 5K on the clock. Seems everyone wants one now that Honda took it away.
zupatun

[image: Yamaha-FJ-09.jpg]http://www.ridermagazine.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/12/Yamaha-FJ-09.jpg

https://www.google.com/url?sa=i&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=images&cd=&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0CAMQjxxqFQoTCNHG8umc9MYCFQSyFAodDSoF1w&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DZu7FKqMS-4I&ei=1myyVdGDIYTkUo3UlLgN&bvm=bv.98476267,d.d24&psig=AFQjCNFm-yEG-VBbpDkimSBsgjmpK7I3WA&ust=1437842999347225

I rather have this, but I'm too short:

http://www.motorcyclistonline.com/2016-honda-africa-twin-crf1000l-honda-releases-technical-specs-photos-adventure-touring-adv-first

Have you say on one with the seat in its lowered position?

If I had to buy a new bike the FJ-09 would be at or near the top of my list.

#32

Skip the inline 4 and get a Triple. Tons of character and relatively affordable if you opt for the FZ-09 or FJ-09 from Yamaha.

#34
wagzhp
ridered
duccmann

Ridered, think Brian F is selling his 1200

I want a manual. Just missed one here in So Cal for $7,000 with only 5K on the clock. Seems everyone wants one now that Honda took it away.
zupatun

[image: Yamaha-FJ-09.jpg]http://www.ridermagazine.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/12/Yamaha-FJ-09.jpg

https://www.google.com/url?sa=i&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=images&cd=&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0CAMQjxxqFQoTCNHG8umc9MYCFQSyFAodDSoF1w&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DZu7FKqMS-4I&ei=1myyVdGDIYTkUo3UlLgN&bvm=bv.98476267,d.d24&psig=AFQjCNFm-yEG-VBbpDkimSBsgjmpK7I3WA&ust=1437842999347225

I rather have this, but I'm too short:

http://www.motorcyclistonline.com/2016-honda-africa-twin-crf1000l-honda-releases-technical-specs-photos-adventure-touring-adv-first

Have you say on one with the seat in its lowered position?

If I had to buy a new bike the FJ-09 would be at or near the top of my list.

I really wish it was a baby FJR. I think that thing is ugly though. I love it on paper, but I don't like looking at it.

I'm down to three options:

1. VFR1200

2. VFR800DLX

3. Keep the 5th gen and get that Africa Twin when it comes out. Man that thing is awesome!

#36
ridered

I'm testing a VFR1200 this weekend. If it doesn't make me fall in love, I'm getting a '14 Interceptor. Just sitting on that bike feels right. Just need to test every other option first.

Skids

Test rode the 1200GS when it first appeared. A fun 20 minutes, mainly due to the upright seating, wide bars and confidence-inspiring handling but the engine was a pig. And yr right about the discontinuity between the controls and the rider.....it seems curiously disconnected. The F800 was lame too.

The VFR (5th Gen) was a relief to get back onto.

Skids,

You have owned all 3, 5th gen, VTEC and 1200. If you could own only one, which would it be?

All 3! :goofy:

#37

I have a friend that went from a 6th gen (loved it) to a 1200 (really loved it) to a Ducati Multi (impulse buy, but loved it until it literally died during a long trip) to his current Hayabusa, which he also loves. Another friend has 2 Busas and takes many long trips on them. I've never ridden a Busa, but they appear to be much more comfortable than your standard liter-bike.

As for my 2014 VFR800 DLX, I love it (even more than my previous 6th gen). The only thing I wish for is a bit more power and the old horn/signal positions...still hate the new arrangement (in case you didn't know, they switched places).

#38

I'm riding the VStar to a big 4 dealer in a few to get some items. I'm in great peril to ride out on something else. Great peril. Last time I was there, they had a new Viffer marked down to $8K. I see nothing wrong with have a different generation of VFR in the stable. Nothing at all.

May God have mercy on my wallet.....

#39

Called on the last new VFR1200 in all of SoCal today, and it sold today! Ugh, why is it so hard to find one? He did say he could order me a manual, but I really need to test ride one first. Apparently the 1200 has become desirable after all.

#40
ridered

Called on the last new VFR1200 in all of SoCal today, and it sold today! Ugh, why is it so hard to find one? He did say he could order me a manual, but I really need to test ride one first. Apparently the 1200 has become desirable after all.

Red,

PM me after the 7th of Aug. I'm on vacation till then but you can run around on my 1200 if you like when I get back. It's a DCT. I'm in Eden Valley (Escondido), so you can ride down Elfin Forest Road and back...nice windy back road.

BTW, you may have to go out of state for the 1200. Early last year I had to go to Vegas for mine. Rented a car one-way, rode it home. They tend to sell ok in SoCal, though I've only seen one other on the road.

#41
Marsman99
ridered

Called on the last new VFR1200 in all of SoCal today, and it sold today! Ugh, why is it so hard to find one? He did say he could order me a manual, but I really need to test ride one first. Apparently the 1200 has become desirable after all.

Red,

PM me after the 7th of Aug. I'm on vacation till then but you can run around on my 1200 if you like when I get back. It's a DCT. I'm in Eden Valley (Escondido), so you can ride down Elfin Forest Road and back...nice windy back road.

BTW, you may have to go out of state for the 1200. Early last year I had to go to Vegas for mine. Rented a car one-way, rode it home. They tend to sell ok in SoCal, though I've only seen one other on the road.

Sounds perfect. Thanks for your help! I'm willing to travel to find one, but need to know if it is for me or not.

#42

I found 4 on cycletrader.com within 250 miles of you. 1 dct, 3 standard.

#43
f3racer

I found 4 on cycletrader.com within 250 miles of you. 1 dct, 3 standard.

The one here sold, the other 3 are in Nevada. I'd rather not go to nevada just for a test ride. If I like it there are some listed in Oregon for killer prices. I'd fly somewhere to get one if need be. Also, the dealer here that just sold the DCT said he can order a manual for me. I'll see what kind of deal he can get.

BTW, thanks for everyone's help. I at least want to see if it is a good bike for me. Otherwise I'll buy a new 800. I did wash and wax my 5th gen this weekend. It still is a great bike.

#44
ridered

I couldn't believe how much I disliked the BMW. The extra power was nice, and it felt new and tight, but the controls were terrible, I couldn't read the dash and the boxer is no V4. It didn't feel like a sport tourer to me. Not much sport. Would be a mediocre tourer too with the noise and vibration it produced.

I test rode a '16 BMW R1200RS today. Been looking forward to this for weeks and finally had an opportunity. Took an FJ-09 for a test ride during Yamaha demo days in Jan and still trying to source a ride on a '14+ Interceptor for comparison. This is in hopes of replacing my stalwart '02 which is rather dialed in with revalved forks, Penske rear, Staintunes, NWS carbon fiber hugger, and Heli bars. I'm seeking a more modern safety cushion to help with the unexpected- features like ABS and TC, partially motivated by a growing family and a more wary wife.

Got the orientation to the controls and was given a route for an unaccompanied ride that included freeways, ramps, and some surface roads, though limited twisties. The riding position was possibly one of the most comfortable I've ever had on a motorcycle- leaned over just enough but not a hard reach to the bars (I'm 6'1", 33" inseam, 145 lbs). I found the FJ-09's sit up and beg position caused me to slouch.

There are a lot of things that can be chalked up to jerkiness that would smooth out with continued riding, but I felt like clutch actuation was typically smooth but occasionally grabby when leaving a red light. Shifting was smooth and clean. Brakes were fantastic though sometimes I'd feel a vibration in the rear lever when first pressed, as if the ABS had come on lightly. No strangeness if I just used the front. Being able to switch throttle/ride and suspension modes on the fly was fantastic. The standard "road" suspension setting soaked up way more stuff than my Penske, though "dynamic" was a bit on the hard side. Maybe I'm too light for that setting.

Part of the issue with clutch actuation was the disconnectedness between the controls and what the bike is doing, something others have mentioned. With the digital tach buried in the electronic cluster, and the boxer engine kind of sounding the same through the rev range, it was hard to know what was going on. I'm sure you learn it once you own it, but it wasn't apparent where you were in the power band (though that's partially due to a respectable amount of torque all over). Speaking of torque, it didn't quite feel like a 1200cc engine. My friend's Bandit 1200S from early 2000s seemed to pull stronger, and communicated with you better.

About the engine, fairly smooth at revs, but not a V4 at idle. It had a fair amount of vibration, though what's with the bike pushing to the left when blipping the throttle at a standstill? The factory exhaust sounded pretty good for factory, and the quick shifter made you want to speed. Handling was impressive- rock solid in keeping a line. I came in to a freeway to freeway interchange ramp a little hot and had no choice but to lean it over, and it complied.

Tachometers are better as sweeping needles.

Wind buffeting from the factory screen on my '02 is terrible for me, so I'd say the RS was decent in both lower and upper positions. Having the ability to change is nice, and that's really my favorite thing about the bike-- being able to change the experience through throttle and suspension modes. But I just didn't get a lot of character from the boxer, which made the entire bike seem a little sullen. I could see owning one, down the road and pre-owned, as a tourer that was sporty, but why not go with an R1200RT? Sadly, that still has the boxer engine which I was not impressed with.

Overall, I was underwhelmed, especially considering price. It was an antiseptic, and as mentioned, somewhat soulless ride. Exceptional at certain things, but was like an East German athlete during the cold war, brutally efficient. I'm looking for a little more character; the search continues...

Edited 31 Jul 2015 by vinjah
#46

Vinjah wrote about the 1200RS:

"Overall, I was underwhelmed, especially considering price. It was an antiseptic, and as mentioned, somewhat soulless ride. Exceptional at certain things, but was like an East German athlete during the cold war, brutally efficient. I'm looking for a little more character; the search continues..."

My thoughts exactly. I am too short to try the FJ-09. Tried the FJR1300, but that is a sporty touring bike. Really nice if you want a touring bike, but not sporty enough. I'm planning on trying a VFR1200. My fall back is a '14. I don't want a naked. If aprilia would make a futura with the v4 I'd be tempted.

#47
Tamworth

Visit to Ducati dealer COST me 20k

Details....

#49

I feel kind of the same way. I have been looking into upgrading my 6th gen to something in the FJR, ST, or Connie territory. But I just did 2800 miles following 101 from SoCal to Olympia and that VFR is t going anywhere. I love the thing. I would like some other features. But it's just such a good package. I can't get rid of it and I can't afford 2 bikes.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

#50

Damn, my 5th Gen is my first and only love. If I ever need a new one, you guys will make me pull my hair, desperate. I have only tried a CB1000 and I loved it. But I wouldnt swap for anything at the moment my viffer. Maybe if I ever can get a second bike it'll be a vfr1200 x'D

Enviado desde mi D6503 mediante Tapatalk

#51

Had a chance to ride a VFR 1200 for 100 miles of mixed roads. Compared to the BMW it is light years better everywhere except weight. More power, better brakes, smoother, better wind protection, better looking and way cheaper. Yes, it doesn't have all the fancy electronics, but it was only 16K (MSRP). Yet all the reviews are positive on the BMW and no one complains the BMW is $20,000 without the bags and has a 4.7 gallon tank giving it the same range as the 1200. VFR owners must be a picky bunch (myself included). Don't image there will be and left over 2016 1200rs' sitting in dealers in 3 years. If Honda would reintroduce the VFR1200 for '16 with bags, heated grips, fully adjustable suspension and cruise standard I'd buy one for the 16K asking price. Or give us the 1000cc interceptor. Either way they would have my money for sure.

Either way the VFR can't be beat as the most versatile bike compared to what I have ridden:

BMW r1200rs: too expensive and not that good.

FJR1300: to touring oriented, but a good bike. Not good for city or short trips

V-Strom: Ugly and under powered. Good for the money and it's target market (rode a friend's with no intention of ever buying one)

Still on my list:

Africa Twin

'14+ interceptor (1000cc and I would have a deposit today)

End of thread · 51 posts recovered Wayback Machine snapshot 18 May 2016