First post here.
I've been shopping around locally for a 5th gen to ad to my stable. Although I've done as much homework as possible, I'd like to ask you seasoned veterans about specific issues I should be asking about.
I'm sure if I spent more time searching 5th gens, I would find all this info. But I have about 15 available locally and don't want to loose out on a gem. Nor do I want to end up with a lemon.
Thanks folks.
look for a vfr800 with good charging voltage at idle through 6000 rpms and one that doesnt appear to be hacked, modded, dropped/crashed or rusted.....
The ones I'm interested in are stock or close to it, low mileage and haven't been down. I've narrowed the field down but the interesting ones are all a fair distance away, so I would like to ask all the right questions prior to making the drive.
How does one check the charging voltage as you mentioned?
Where are you in southern ont .I may have a bike for you at a reasonable price . pm me .
its a vfr, milage doesnt matter, as much as good maintence and the bike living indoors and out of the elements when not in use.
I have 70,000 on my 2007, it is still strong as an ox.
How many bikes have you checked out/bought in the past?
1. Ask for the service history...if the guy doesn't take it to the dealer for this...ask for his log. If he doesent keep one, that is one nock agains the bike...no records means no proof of maintenance...not always bad, but not a positive. Check the VIN and see if this is a California model or not (will have evap canister on the bike as well...important iif you live in Cali I imagine. Write down the VIN and I think you can ask your insurance company or the dealer to see the history of the bike (if it has been crashed--reported--or not).
2. Bike should be COLD when you walk up...if not, then he either jumped it or got it started and warmed up so it would start easier (the first time)...this isn't normally a problem with an FI bike, more often with bikes that have carbs...but still...it is a potential sign.
3. Check the color of the oil level and color of the oil through side viewing window (rt side engine case ahead of the clutch housing) with bike on center stand...oil level should be between two lines--if too low, take a note...will probably be darker as well. If too high--above the second line -- that's definitely not good either.
4. Bring some hex wrenches and peel off the left side fairing (ask first) and look at the coolant level, cold. It should have coolant in between the two lines. After you start it up and get it to temp it should rise somewhat.
5. if you have a Volt Meter, take the seat off. Check to see if hte factory tools are all there...and check the cold voltage on the battery. >12.2V but that's not enough. After you start the bike the voltage (DC) should be >13.5 at 2500 rpm and less than 14.8V at 5000 rpm. Here's the fault finding guide link from electro-sport...https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0CCQQFjAAahUKEwj3nqCV5PbHAhXGFx4KHYSXC3Q&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.electrosport.com%2Fmedia%2Fpdf%2Ffault-finding-diagram.pdf&usg=AFQjCNEEc6HtTj-o-40A7DBmSuZqLu0vNg&sig2=whW7UIdIsdJpmv64aetMlw&bvm=bv.102537793,d.dmo
6. Let the bike warm up at idle for at least 5 minutes...the temperature should be >175F...if its a hot day let it idle for 20-25 minutes and the temp should go up to 220...the fan should kick on...if temp goes above 225 and no fan you have an issue (the displayed temp is wrong or the fan switch is not working or there is an open circuit in the fan circuit...)..either way you need to get the bike to temp and make sure the fan comes on...you can rev the bike safely after 5 minutes and it is up to temp to get the temps up...
7. if it is at temp, check the weep hole under the water pump to see if any coolant is coming out...use a flashlight, see if the weep hole is not gunked up first...if it is, un-plug it with something small...if there is fluid coming out the shaft seal on the water pump is shot...this is not good but repairable.
8. You should also ask for a test ride--if possible.
9. Look for crash damage to the fairings...cracks or obvious repairs...better if you can pull off the side fairings and check them and the seat off to see if the rear has been repaired. all the fairings should line up easily...all the fasteners should be there...and should be factory...even behind the front wheel in front of the front cylinders...these little clips are a pain, sometimes we replace them with similar types...not too concerning, but they should all be there.
10. Look at the engine cases to see if they have been ground down. Look for oil leaks/fluid leaks under the bike. Look at the oil plug and oil filter see if there's any leaking oil.
11. look at the bar ends...are they stock or aftermarket...if aftermarket ask to see the factory ones...they should not be ground down...a scuff is OK, ground down means laid down...not just a tip over. Look for dents in the tank...Look at the front turn signals...cracks around them means they were either crashed and broken or tipped over. If they are replaced with aftermarket, ask to see the stock ones ("in case you want to put them back on") if they are scuffed or not there they were probably bnroken in a crash.
12. with bike on center stand and facing a garage door, check out the headlight pattern...I've seen it where one was higher than the other...menaing the front fairing stays were bent ...you should be able to see this also if the front windscreen and fairing are closer to one handlebar or the other...as you sit on the bke with the front wheel straight ahead.
13. Bring a string...and do the alignment method on the front and rear wheels...with a SSA if these are not aligned, the frame is bent (http://www.motorcyclistonline.com/simple-motorcycle-wheel-alignment)
14. Look at the chain and rear sproket...if the teeth are worn, ask when it was replaced...if no records assume you need to replace front, rear and chain....this is at least $200 negotiating point. Same with tires, used tires are OK, new better, if they are at the wear bars, it is a negotiating point worth at least $300 to $400.
15. Look for rust at any of the subframe welds...to me this indicates it was bent, cracked the paint and is now weakened.
16. Look under the seat and see if he has any switched relays for accessories...is there a fuse for the relay? How are the electrical connections, are they professionally done or look like an amateur slice and dice job?
17. Look at the brake fluid color and the clutch fluid color...take the tops off and see if there's gunk in the resevoir...should be light or color of honey at most...brown is bad, gray or black is horrible. front and rear rotors should show some wear but not big ridges or gouges...a little rust is OK if it sits outside, but should wipe off ...lots of pitting is bad. The pads front and rear should be able to be inspected with a flashlight...should have more than a 16th and near an 8th at least...if it looks like its almost flat means they are way gone...need not only replaced, but you need to check the caliper bores as well and maybe refresh. Have someone push down on the rear of the bike and get hte front wheel off the ground...spin it. it should spin freely, you should hear the brake pads lightly sing on the rotors, but it should be fairly even and very light...wheel should spin a few rotations...not stop quickly or hear the singing pulse. if it sings, means the rotor carriers are bent most likely, an indication of a crash or someone was hamfisted changing the front tire...not a good sign. same with the rear wheel and bike in neutral, cept it won't spin as much because of hte chain drag...so listen to the rear brake for dragging caliper...should not drag too much...and have some meat on the pads.
Plenty more , but that's some of what I try to go over...if you can get a test ride there's more to do/feel...but I would ride it without earplugs...you should hear the Pair system flapper opening and closing when you start out and come to a stop...the chain should sound smooth when idling and clutch in...taking off shouldn't be snatchy. It should snick into second gear, third etc...easily. braking should be straight..
someone give this guy a beer
Wow.
Thanks zupatun. Thats some great advice.
My FJR was used but almost new. My other recent bikes have been bought new.
I know bikes of this age will have known issues, hence my post.
Thanks again man!
Oh...I'm in Canada so I doubt any will be California models.
Used vehicles sold here must include a "used vehicle information package". It's the law. Includes basic vehicle history like previous owners, odometer readings at time of sale, any lien information and fair market evaluation.
Wow over a dozen to choose from? Good for you!. Do Canadians use Craigslist? I looked for VFR* in London for example and see zero bikes. Where are they for us to see? :)
You might consider posting in the "wanted" section here or on vfrworld, in case any forum participants can provide you with inside information. If you see a forum member with 10,000 posts over ten years and they "know" someone took care of the bike, at least that is a data point for your evaluation. Maybe you can start a bidding war!
A lot of people do not do a valve inspection and adjustment due to the cost. Look for paperwork showing that the bike had the valve clearance checked at the last major service interval and if not use this in your negotiation. Someone who actually does the valve adjustments is probably meticulous. That is a good positive data point.
There are two proprietary tools required so ask if they have these or the complete Honda toolkit: chain adjustment pin spanner and shock pin spanner. (The shock spanner is not really proprietary but I say that because they do vary in size.) If they do not have a chain spanner, look at the chain adjuster for divots where they may have used a hammer and punch overly aggressively. If the chain is all sloppy no need to check the adjuster...
I bought my 1999 last year as my first bike. When it got hot outside the lights began failing and I began cleaning switches. Based on the year range and my experience I suggest that after your purchase you go through all switches, connectors, and grounds and clean them as a proactive measure to prevent hot spots and eventually outright failures. People attribute failures to "those lousy charging system components." But the fact is, the system is corroded and can use a refresh.
The stock exhaust is single low mount. People may modify this to a high mount for instance but many add a replacement slip-on muffler that weighs less and sounds better.
The OEM shock is robust. The fork has a limited life, so there is an inspection point for you. It is typical for people to replace with these items with aftermarket race components rather than OEM.
A mod some do is de-linking the brakes which are linked front to rear. Someone else would have to chime in on how to spot that quickly. You may be able to tell if you get considerable braking power just using the rear brake but that is kind of ethereal.
This bike shifts buttery smooth so run from one that does not.
Not sure how many buy center stands, but if it has one you can prop it up to test for brake binding.
Got your flashlight with you? The radiators are in the sides and you can peek behind the fairings for damage otherwise covered up by new plastic. I see someone suggested you take fairings off. Best idea yet and the owner should let you.
Given that it is commonly used for touring, you will probably see choices with and without luggage. Once all of the mechanicals are inspected here is a final negotiating point for you.
I wrote MadScientist and he is looking to see if his 1998 bike still has Power Commander V maps by gear that he developed using Autotune. If you go the PCV route feel free to keep in touch with me.
That brings something else to mind, year changes: In 2000 Honda added a catalytic converter and oxygen sensors with a closed-loop mode of operation. I mention this in case you have a choice of one with a converter and one without.
Be prepared for the most difficult quandary in all of human history: If you had a choice of red vs. yellow, what on earth would you do? WHAT WOULD YOU DO?
Then be prepared for lusting after the color that you did not buy for the rest of your life. No matter which choice you made.
Knight.
Kijiji is more widely used to buy and sell used stuff here than Craigslist. Have a look there. Ontario wide.
Only one red one available around here and it is overpriced from a dealer. Only one yellow also.
Blue, green and silver are more plentiful.
Is a 5th gen with cat converter, oxygen sensors more or less desireable?
HughJebolzakKnight.
Kijiji is more widely used to buy and sell used stuff here than Craigslist. Have a look there. Ontario wide.
Only one red one available around here and it is overpriced from a dealer. Only one yellow also.
Blue, green and silver are more plentiful.
Is a 5th gen with cat converter, oxygen sensors more or less desireable?
Heck I have never seen a green one and rarely a blue in these years. Your selection is definitely different from what is available locally by me, I won't ask if these are country differences, because I may just be ignorant about the color palette that was offered here new vs. what I see today used.
Given a choice I would take the one without the catalytic converter.
1) It adds weight
2) It is restrictive and uses some power, albeit a small amount.
3) If it ever goes bad (very high mileage) it is an extra expensive thing to replace.
4) If you read about what people do to their bikes for performance upgrades it is common for people to first remove the cat for reasons #1 and #2. (Personally I would reject this procedure because it continually makes motorcyclists look like completely irresponsible people, which is the last thing we need.)
5) You sound like you tend to collect nice looking bikes and keep them a long time. If I were a collector ten or twenty years from now, given the choice between a cat and non-cat, I would take the non-cat. Aside from the technical disadvantage, everything made after these years has a cat, so that makes the prior one a little more special.
Now there is no telling if any of these bikes that are actually ridden will appreciate in value. Probably not for a long time, there are just far too many of them, and far too many choices for one's money. So the practical answer just might be, "It does not really matter." Which leaves you to get one that passes your inspection and that you love to look at.
Sorry to add to the confusion.
I see a green one with frame sliders. It depends on the bike but those may be drilled through the fairing. Thus you need to specifically consider if you want frame sliders or not. That is another whole topic of great debate.
I installed sliders on both my SV650 (naked) and FJR.
Didn't have to cut plastic for either though.
If the job was done well on the VFR you saw, I would consider the sliders a plus.
This yellow one in Ottawa looks like a nice bike. It has some miles on it, which usually means it has been ridden all of these years, and thus maintained with the fluids changed. (15 year old fluids can be very bad. ASK ME how I know.)
Of course you have to get proof of these things. * If there are no receipts, whatever maintenance they tell you did not happen. *
Because it has some miles it is a good price. And the owner says he kept it very clean.
I am curious about the windshield. I cannot quite tell what it is. Maybe a smoked givi touring screen? Those are curved at the top but I cannot quite see the top in these pics. Here in the states the only screen OEM was clear, that is why this dark one catches my attention. Maybe it is a painted or tinted OEM?
It is a 1999 so no cat.
If this one passes a rugged inspection, it would be a great candidate for a lot of reasons. Unless you do not like yellow. I think the yellow is fantastic.
You can also solicit on these forums for someone who may inspect a bike for you. Some guys do that for free if they are near, but I would also offer them a good sum, as such advice can save you a lifetime of hurt.
HughJebolzakI installed sliders on both my SV650 (naked) and FJR.
Didn't have to cut plastic for either though.
If the job was done well on the VFR you saw, I would consider the sliders a plus.
FYI pic:
I bought mine 2 years ago , love it to bits , put the bike on its center stand move the bars from side to side check for a notch in the center if you have one new stearing head bearings are needed my bike had 23 k on the clock and they were worn
If any of them have upgraded suspension by Jamie Daugherty, that's a $1000 upgrade right there~
Early on in the conversation, I ask the owner how do you check the oil level, and how do you check the coolant level. What kind of oil is in the bike, when was the coolant changed last, and how often do you lube the chain? I have been surprised and shocked at the number of otherwise competent-appearing owners who did not know how to check the oil level on their own bikes. Saved me from buying a cherry looking Speed Triple once,,, the owner added more that a quart before the oil appeared in the sight glass. Jeff J.
I remember looking at a bike one time,I asked the fella selling it where was the oil filter,he said I think it's there,pointing at the right side of the engine!! just walked away from that one.
Zupatun, very well done..
Cheers
Ask the seller how well it does wheelies. If he says 'great', walk away.
HughJebolzak, you didn't say where in s ont you're located. If there is a bike near London you want checked out let me know. I did a Kijiji search and only found three near by, milage between 50 and 80000 km, with prices that seemed high (3800 -5500)
Just for comparison, i found my y2k five years ago stock,24000km,paid less than that.
I'm in Guelph.
I have my eye on a few right now. Mileage ranging from 20,000km to 52,000km. Prices from $3,500 to $4,500.
The one I'm most interested in, I can't get the guy to return my emails. :(
One just popped up (a 2000) with only 8,248 on the clock! That's only 5,125 miles!!
Sadly the guy is asking $6,250. That's about $4,750 U.S. dollars.
Yikes.
I would think a bike that old with so little miles on it would have issues from just sitting around so long though.
duccmannZupatun, very well done..
Cheers
Thanks,
I've picked up a couple items to add from the other posts here. This site is a wealth of collective experience and knowledge. Proud to be a small part and glad to be able to access it...
Matt