What the heck? Anyone know anything about these? http://www.motusmotorcycles.com
Motus V4
125 posts Started 29 Jan 2016 Last recovered post 22 Jul 2017 Wayback Machine snapshot 18 Jan 2018
For 2 years now.
Yep. They think that made in the US will trump any concerns on price vs value or equipment spec level.
The engine is a V4 developed by Katech in Michigan who has experience with pushrod V8's from NASCAR.
Price around $35k last I talked to them.
Yep, and found out the dealer is literally right up the road from me! Still haven't found time to get over to see about a test ride...
My son and i have been following these guys for a few years. The are now shipping motorcycles in production and rolling out a small dealer network. We took a trip down to the factory in Birmingham AL and received the royal treatment, tours, test rides etc. They even took us out to dinner. Lee Cohn and his guys are fantastic people. The hospitality was first rate and you can tell they all have great pride in their product....and no, i was not there to buy a motorcycle, they knew that. We were just fans of the product.
The motorcycle is very different from the Japanese and German sport tourers. It has a character all of it's own and the V four has monster power and torque and it is a very unique riding experience. I think it may be one of those love it or hate it things - kinda like Harleys. The motorcycles are not cheap, they come fully optioned out with ohlins suspensions, Sargent seats, hard bags etc. It is one of those motorcycles you really have to ride to appreciate.
I think their business plan is to be a small producer of several hundred to a thousand motorcycles a year. I think there market demographic will turn out to be older more experienced riders, with disposable income that want a touring motorcycle that is a different from the cookie cutter bikes on the market;; ST1300, Concours 14, FJR, BMW RT. Not to start a flame war but the Japanese bikes are all incredibly similar and I am not a fan of the BMW boxer. Disclosure - I have a C14.
Being US made will appeal to some. I, for one, would like to a US motorcycle industry offering something other than cruiser style bikes - especially now that EBR is gone.
Maybe I can make my way to Birmingham later in February...
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Motus and the Monster on Hwy 1
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Duc2V4All I know is I want!!!!Yep, and found out the dealer is literally right up the road from me! Still haven't found time to get over to see about a test ride...
Maybe when I come down we can go and check it out D
Motus005[image: 411790290f81b64829604278d3cc4674.jpg]
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Motus and the Monster on Hwy 1
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Welcome and nice bike . Can give us any feedback on what it ride like?
Would love to see Motus get their heads out of the clouds and price a bike in the 15k range where normal people can hope to afford one. 35k is a chunk of change for a motorcycle.
Having said that, I've seen one up close and I really liked what they had going, hoping to see them succeed and become a major manufacturer of American motorcycles!
Take off the top shelf parts from top of the line vendors and produce them in mass, then you can have a bike for $15k.
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Maybe a naked version for less $$$
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The V4 is why you buy and love this bike! It is truly unique, sound, torque, power, fun. I am glad Motus bolted the top shelf parts on this bike, so I didn't have too. It is hand built with extreme attention to detail. I have had several experts pull off the body work and take a close look. They were blown away with the craftsmanship and ease that all the parts go together. The one exception is the frame makes it a bit tight to adjust the rear ohlins shock.
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Motus005Take off the top shelf parts from top of the line vendors and produce them in mass, then you can have a bike for $15k.
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Maybe a naked version for less $$$
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The V4 is why you buy and love this bike! It is truly unique, sound, torque, power, fun. I am glad Motus bolted the top shelf parts on this bike, so I didn't have too. It is hand built with extreme attention to detail. I have had several experts pull off the body work and take a close look. They were blown away with the craftsmanship and ease that all the parts go together. The one exception is the frame makes it a bit tight to adjust the rear ohlins shock.
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Nice tease!
A Motus in the wild!! That will turn heads and have people ask you many questions for sure.
Just like me on my Moto Guzzi Lemans 1000 in the spring of 1990 riding through East Germany. Each petrol stop I'd be surrounded by astounded motorists.... :-)
Just curious what does this bike weight ?
SwitchbladeJust curious what does this bike weight ?
Oddly their "Full Spec" sheet does not give final vehicle weight but it does list the engine w/6 speed transmission as 225 lbs.
Duc2V4I saw 598 wet somewhereSwitchbladeOddly their "Full Spec" sheet does not give final vehicle weight but it does list the engine w/6 speed transmission as 225 lbs.Just curious what does this bike weight ?
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Says 565 llbs wet here;
Motus005Take off the top shelf parts from top of the line vendors and produce them in mass, then you can have a bike for $15k.
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Maybe a naked version for less $$$
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The V4 is why you buy and love this bike! It is truly unique, sound, torque, power, fun. I am glad Motus bolted the top shelf parts on this bike, so I didn't have too. It is hand built with extreme attention to detail. I have had several experts pull off the body work and take a close look. They were blown away with the craftsmanship and ease that all the parts go together. The one exception is the frame makes it a bit tight to adjust the rear ohlins shock.
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I'm not saying it isn't a great machine, but the fact of the matter is top shelf or not, not everyone can drop 35k on a bike, or a car for that matter. I think it would be nice to see Motus make it big and develop their brand as a USA bike maker, but what I am saying is they will have to find a way to price the bike in line with competitors machines in order to be more than a niche bike maker.
All I can say that the motus has to compete with the VFR1200 which is a great machine (just bought one) The VFR is top quality, and even if you put full olins and every option and bought at full retail, it is still cheaper than the Motus. It looks more refined too, and has a few more features, such as SSSA, shaft drive and ABS. Plus you have Honda's dealer network for parts and service. Honda also struggled selling the VFR at full retail, so they could be had for a bargain. This is a VFR forum, and I might be bias, but I can have my 1200, and brand new VFR800 and a brand new Africa Twin for the price of the motus. Best of luck to Motus though. I hope they can lower their prices and become more competitive.
MadScientistDuc2V4I saw 598 wet somewhereSwitchbladeOddly their "Full Spec" sheet does not give final vehicle weight but it does list the engine w/6 speed transmission as 225 lbs.Just curious what does this bike weight ?
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That's too heavy for me. Thanks.
SwitchbladeMadScientistThat's too heavy for me. Thanks.Duc2V4I saw 598 wet somewhereSwitchbladeOddly their "Full Spec" sheet does not give final vehicle weight but it does list the engine w/6 speed transmission as 225 lbs.Just curious what does this bike weight ?
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But it has like 857 HP to cover the weight!
I noticed first group of pictures didn't have the appendage on the left side of the engine (stock) and the latter have what appears to be a turbo! How much power did that add?
Motus005Take off the top shelf parts from top of the line vendors and produce them in mass, then you can have a bike for $15k.
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Maybe a naked version for less $$$
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The V4 is why you buy and love this bike! It is truly unique, sound, torque, power, fun. I am glad Motus bolted the top shelf parts on this bike, so I didn't have too. It is hand built with extreme attention to detail. I have had several experts pull off the body work and take a close look. They were blown away with the craftsmanship and ease that all the parts go together. The one exception is the frame makes it a bit tight to adjust the rear ohlins shock.
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Just checking out your posts and screen name....did you buy Motus serial number balls 5 or are you the 5th Motus owner on VFRD?
PirateRiderBenMotus005Take off the top shelf parts from top of the line vendors and produce them in mass, then you can have a bike for $15k.
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Maybe a naked version for less $$$
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The V4 is why you buy and love this bike! It is truly unique, sound, torque, power, fun. I am glad Motus bolted the top shelf parts on this bike, so I didn't have too. It is hand built with extreme attention to detail. I have had several experts pull off the body work and take a close look. They were blown away with the craftsmanship and ease that all the parts go together. The one exception is the frame makes it a bit tight to adjust the rear ohlins shock.
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I'm not saying it isn't a great machine, but the fact of the matter is top shelf or not, not everyone can drop 35k on a bike, or a car for that matter. I think it would be nice to see Motus make it big and develop their brand as a USA bike maker, but what I am saying is they will have to find a way to price the bike in line with competitors machines in order to be more than a niche bike maker.
rideredAll I can say that the motus has to compete with the VFR1200 which is a great machine (just bought one) The VFR is top quality, and even if you put full olins and every option and bought at full retail, it is still cheaper than the Motus. It looks more refined too, and has a few more features, such as SSSA, shaft drive and ABS. Plus you have Honda's dealer network for parts and service. Honda also struggled selling the VFR at full retail, so they could be had for a bargain. This is a VFR forum, and I might be bias, but I can have my 1200, and brand new VFR800 and a brand new Africa Twin for the price of the motus. Best of luck to Motus though. I hope they can lower their prices and become more competitive.
I am going to respectfully disagree with this line of thought as I think what Motus would deem a success is far different from what we expect from Honda and other main-stream manufacturers.
From an automotive perspective it would be akin to comparing Porsche (pre 4 door and SUV days) to one of the Detroit big 3. Of course the Ohlins parts dont account for $20,000 in added value. Motus has to price the bike at that level to recoup the Katech development costs but they want to price it there to create an aspirational brand.
I think they would be more than happy to be selling 250-300 bikes a year in 3 years at $35k each instead of trying to sell 750 bikes at $15k each to reach the same total sales dollars or more than 1,000 per year to generate the same margins.
That is the plan.
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Motus 001 is at Barber Motorsports Museum. Motus 002, 003, 004 are the 3 demo bikes you ride when they bring them to dealers. I have 005!
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Motus005That is the plan.
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Motus 001 is at Barber Motorsports Museum. Motus 002, 003, 004 are the 3 demo bikes you ride when they bring them to dealers. I have 005!
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The man has spoken ^^^ .... and WELCOME to VFRD ....
I have a $20,000 08 VFR how do you trade ... :goofy:
Wonder what reaction I would get, if I joined the Motus forum and just posted pictures of my bike.......
Motus005That is the plan.
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Motus 001 is at Barber Motorsports Museum. Motus 002, 003, 004 are the 3 demo bikes you ride when they bring them to dealers. I have 005!
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Very cool!
I'm 2 seconds away from selling all 3 bikes and my 1953 MG TD for this. there's a dealer near Seattle..........The sound is it finally did it for me. I love everything I was reading, pictures and such, then I watched some videos and....well....mm...my wife won't be happy next week.
You can finance through FreedomRoad
I kept my Ducati and added a Motus.
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UltimatevfrWonder what reaction I would get, if I joined the Motus forum and just posted pictures of my bike.......
I think if you posted it in a thread inquiring if anyone there had seen or heard of a VFR then you would be thanked for providing the info and sharing your thoughts.
One of my dream bikes is an '05 VFR.
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CornerCarverUltimatevfrWonder what reaction I would get, if I joined the Motus forum and just posted pictures of my bike.......
I think if you posted it in a thread inquiring if anyone there had seen or heard of a VFR then you would be thanked for providing the info and sharing your thoughts.
Easy CC,I meant that as teasing :) forgot the smiley face
Motus005 , awesome collection of bikes you have. My son and I have tossed around the idea of riding over and touring the factory in the spring. I have been a fan of the Motus probably from the first article I read while it was still in development,and especially of the design of the power plant itself. I apologize for my clumsiness.
CornerCarverI am going to respectfully disagree with this line of thought as I think what Motus would deem a success is far different from what we expect from Honda and other main-stream manufacturers. From an automotive perspective it would be akin to comparing Porsche (pre 4 door and SUV days) to one of the Detroit big 3. Of course the Ohlins parts dont account for $20,000 in added value. Motus has to price the bike at that level to recoup the Katech development costs but they want to price it there to create an aspirational brand.
I think they would be more than happy to be selling 250-300 bikes a year in 3 years at $35k each instead of trying to sell 750 bikes at $15k each to reach the same total sales dollars or more than 1,000 per year to generate the same margins.
I'm not sure if that line of logic is valid. Porsche is an established marque with a racing and performance heritage. Motus is a newbie on the block. I understand paying more for engineering or ownership of a certain brand name; but I'm not sure if Motus is in a position to command such a brand premium given the product they are delivering. Is Motus claiming, regardless of purpose, to have better than the entire sum of engineering leading to a significantly lower priced R1? The follow up to that is: "Come to the track and prove it." At $35k with no collector value, a small dealer network, medium performance (in the grand scheme of things), and no existing "street cred," there better be some other compelling reason for me to purchase one (like, this bike is guaranteed to get you laid).
In 2011 it was super neat to meet Lee from Motus and we exchanged seats and some V4
thoughts...
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MadScientistI'm not sure if that line of logic is valid. Porsche is an established marque with a racing and performance heritage. Motus is a newbie on the block. I understand paying more for engineering or ownership of a certain brand name; but I'm not sure if Motus is in a position to command such a brand premium given the product they are delivering. Is Motus claiming, regardless of purpose, to have better than the entire sum of engineering leading to a significantly lower priced R1? The follow up to that is: "Come to the track and prove it." At $35k with no collector value, a small dealer network, medium performance (in the grand scheme of things), and no existing "street cred," there better be some other compelling reason for me to purchase one (like, this bike is guaranteed to get you laid).
Well, Porsche didn't start out as an established marque. They had to gain success in racing in order to justify their products' prices.
In their words, Motus is: "An American-made touring motorcycle with the personality of a high-performance, canyon-carving machine."
So, to answer your question: No, Motus makes no claims regarding superlative performance on the track.
They're filling what they see as a niche in the motorcycle market: a high-end American made sports-tourer centered around on a unique engine.
Like the premier models of other motorcycle manufacturers, they use top-shelf wheels, suspension and braking components.
Like other American performance vehicle suppliers, they've partnered with notable performance experts for their unique engine and frame.
For some people, that's a compelling reason.
MadScientistCornerCarverI am going to respectfully disagree with this line of thought as I think what Motus would deem a success is far different from what we expect from Honda and other main-stream manufacturers. From an automotive perspective it would be akin to comparing Porsche (pre 4 door and SUV days) to one of the Detroit big 3. Of course the Ohlins parts dont account for $20,000 in added value. Motus has to price the bike at that level to recoup the Katech development costs but they want to price it there to create an aspirational brand.
I think they would be more than happy to be selling 250-300 bikes a year in 3 years at $35k each instead of trying to sell 750 bikes at $15k each to reach the same total sales dollars or more than 1,000 per year to generate the same margins.
I'm not sure if that line of logic is valid. Porsche is an established marque with a racing and performance heritage. Motus is a newbie on the block. I understand paying more for engineering or ownership of a certain brand name; but I'm not sure if Motus is in a position to command such a brand premium given the product they are delivering. Is Motus claiming, regardless of purpose, to have better than the entire sum of engineering leading to a significantly lower priced R1? The follow up to that is: "Come to the track and prove it." At $35k with no collector value, a small dealer network, medium performance (in the grand scheme of things), and no existing "street cred," there better be some other compelling reason for me to purchase one (like, this bike is guaranteed to get you laid).
Comparing the Motus to the new R1 is like comparing a Porsche to a Caddy.
My point was that they need to do something to justify the brand premium.
What if some new car company came out tomorrow with a well engineered and assembled sport sedan, though not really all that different from what is on the market. Let's say they want $200k for it.
Instead, what if it was a sports car?
I'm not saying I don't like the Motus, but I think they are coming at the market wrong. Their pricing is stratospheric for no reason other than their say-so.
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ggathaganWell, Porsche didn't start out as an established marque. They had to gain success in racing in order to justify their products' prices.
In their words, Motus is: "An American-made touring motorcycle with the personality of a high-performance, canyon-carving machine."
So, to answer your question: No, Motus makes no claims regarding superlative performance on the track.
They're filling what they see as a niche in the motorcycle market: a high-end American made sports-tourer centered around on a unique engine.
Like the premier models of other motorcycle manufacturers, they use top-shelf wheels, suspension and braking components.
Like other American performance vehicle suppliers, they've partnered with notable performance experts for their unique engine and frame.
For some people, that's a compelling reason.
Your first line echos my sentiments, what has Motus done to prove that its products command a premium.
Sure they use top shelf components, but we have kind of established that the value of the individual components doesn't alone equate to the difference in price between a motorcycle from another manufacturer that has been upgraded with Ohlins suspension, BST/Carrozzeria Wheels, and various other farkles. Granted these upgrades aren't available for every make/model.
American manufacture and design might be worth something, but I can't see that it is enough to justify all of their markup.
Considering some people spend way more than $35k on a Harley, $35k seems like a bargain, especially for what you get!
To me the devil is in the details. It has a premium price, but not premium execution. The pillion grab handles look like an after thought, the mirrors were stolen from my '98, the lollipop turn signals look cheap. For 35,000 everything detail has to be perfect. It is a V-4 sport tourer, so every detail has to be better the the VFR1200. If you look at a Porsche, or Ferrari it is clear why they command a premium price. IMO the Motus does not look premium, not even close. I can't speak about performance, never have rode one. But, if I look at a Ducati, it is clear that some engineer and designer spent hours making every part look beautiful, and perform great. For the money, it had better look like art, and perform too.
Duc2V4Considering some people spend way more than $35k on a Harley, $35k seems like a bargain, especially for what you get!
Again back to the brand thing, these buyers are getting "heritage" or a "lifestyle" - comes down to a value decision for the consumer of course. Again though, this reputation has been established by years of existence and the clientele that centers around it. A Harley is basically the entry fee for membership in a club of sorts (figuratively and literally in some cases).
Forgive me if I'm making a sweeping generalization here, but the clientele of the "sport-touring" club, on the other hand, often makes a value decision based on what the product physically delivers for the money rather than strictly the badge on the tank. Don't get me wrong, the Motus does deliver a lot, but the price per performance, comfort, and amenity ratio is just not there.
I think Motus is bent over a barrel on amortizing R&D costs combined with their annual manufacturing capability. To justify the cost, they must attempt to create a niche (high $$, exclusive, sport touring motorcycle). It's a balancing act between pricing the bike, meeting the demand associated with this price, production capabilities, and costs of doing business. Of course Motus has some accountant that has done the math, but I'm not sure if the price is based on producing at capacity or the assumption that they will sell every bike they produce.
ridered... It is a V-4 sport tourer, so every detail has to be better the the VFR1200...
Not just better, double the price and then some better.
MadScientistCornerCarverI am going to respectfully disagree with this line of thought as I think what Motus would deem a success is far different from what we expect from Honda and other main-stream manufacturers. From an automotive perspective it would be akin to comparing Porsche (pre 4 door and SUV days) to one of the Detroit big 3. Of course the Ohlins parts dont account for $20,000 in added value. Motus has to price the bike at that level to recoup the Katech development costs but they want to price it there to create an aspirational brand.
I think they would be more than happy to be selling 250-300 bikes a year in 3 years at $35k each instead of trying to sell 750 bikes at $15k each to reach the same total sales dollars or more than 1,000 per year to generate the same margins.
I'm not sure if that line of logic is valid. Porsche is an established marque with a racing and performance heritage. Motus is a newbie on the block. I understand paying more for engineering or ownership of a certain brand name; but I'm not sure if Motus is in a position to command such a brand premium given the product they are delivering. Is Motus claiming, regardless of purpose, to have better than the entire sum of engineering leading to a significantly lower priced R1? The follow up to that is: "Come to the track and prove it." At $35k with no collector value, a small dealer network, medium performance (in the grand scheme of things), and no existing "street cred," there better be some other compelling reason for me to purchase one (like, this bike is guaranteed to get you laid).
You make some valid points. One of which is that I didn't take the time to properly frame a good analogy. I suppose if Motus purchased the rights to the Vincent name (for example) it would be more like what VW did with Bugatti.
They would then be resurrecting a known name with a history and positioning it in the market where they want. All that they have done differently at this point is have a new name and to my mind the only thing that can derail the plan is they fail to deliver on quality or find themselves pricing their bikes around $15k in a few years.
If they never lower the price then there will be no devaluing of the product that the early adopters paid for (as with the VFR1200) and therefore the perception that it is a $10k bike because that is what the 3 year old leftover new bikes sell for.
Even if they fall on their collective faces and only produce 100 over a few years then the bikes that are in circulation could reach collectible status. Look back some of the low volume classics both 4 wheeled and two that you would have purchased 3 of (one to drive/ride and two to sell for retirement) had you only been sure of how their future value would have soared in the years to come.
I am not saying that a 1650 cc V4 that only revs to 8k is for me but I admire their Quixotic penchant for tilting at the mass production windmill. For all we know in 2016 small volume marketing is one end of the new normal as people want to own something that suits them and they wont see on every street corner (or Starbucks). The opposite end of that normal would be low cost disposable bikes for the 3 billion or so people in developing nations.
MadScientistMy point was that they need to do something to justify the brand premium.
What if some new car company came out tomorrow with a well engineered and assembled sport sedan, though not really all that different from what is on the market. Let's say they want $200k for it.
Instead, what if it was a sports car?
I'm not saying I don't like the Motus, but I think they are coming at the market wrong. Their pricing is stratospheric for no reason other than their say-so.
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and BST carbon fiber wheels, and a Sargent seat, and Givi luggage, and Ohlins TTX 36 shock, and Ohlins NIX 30 forks (fully adjustable), and Brembo monoblock M4 calipers and Brembo radial master cylinders...and their are betting that some want a small block V4 with 180 bhp that sounds uniquely American....
For me I would probably lean more toward a Ducati Mulistrada AND a dedicated RSV4 track bike
Carver, I bet you could sell ice to Eskimos.
CornerCarverFor me I would probably lean more toward a Ducati Mulistrada AND a dedicated RSV4 track bike
Personally, I'd stick with a VFR1200 and the aforementioned RSV4....
True, if they had purchased the name "Vincent" then all they would have to do is deliver a product that met the expectations of the consumer and nobody would bat an eye at $35k. Though the name Motus is yet to proven, they seem to have the engineering down and the performance is equal to or above most of the other bikes in the S-T group.
https://rideapart.com/articles/interview-lee-conn-president-co-founder-motus has a good interview with the founder. I'll pull this one line out:
"I’ve spent plenty of cash over the years fixing annoyances with mass-produced bikes, so this is near and dear to me. Why not just design, engineer and equip build[sic] bikes with components that are not intended to be replaced immediately?"
This is a valid point of marketing. Say we've got a $12000 S-T motorcycle and we add:
Seat - $300
Suspension - $5000 (Slight overestimate - nix 30 @ $3000, ttx 36 (MSTR only)@ $2000)
Luggage - $800 ($200 mounts, $600 side cases)
BST Wheels - $3700 (BST on MSTR only) - assuming you can even get these for the bike you started with
Brakes + SS Lines - Call it $1500 - again depends what you can find that fits, could be +/- $500.
------ Total: $11300 bringing our bike to ~$23300 + labor or personal time to install said goodies.
MSTR MSRP: $36975
Two questions remain: What is the value of having all this equipment protected by the factory warranty? What is the Motus tag on the tank worth?
If the company can deliver on all the other aspects expected of a premium sport touring machine - warranty repair time, customer care, technical support and if the bike is actually free of "annoyances with mass-produced bikes". The VFR charging system is a case in point - how much extra would VFR owners have paid to have a charging system that they never had to worry about? Did Motus make any of these sacrifices anywhere?
I guess only time will actually tell on this one. If I'm not paying $35k to be competitive on a track, then it must absolutely excel at being a sport tourer, like best in class handling, acceleration, comfort, reliability, and range/efficiency. Three of these can be discerned right now, reliability and Motus' reaction to any issues that come up will only be known once the fleet starts racking up real-world miles. Then we will know if any sacrifices were truly made and what the Motus name is worth. Regardless of how much testing is done, the early adopters ARE the beta testers much like any new model release. I'd like to see Motus succeed for a variety of reasons, but they will have a hard time convincing me and many other riders to drop 35 large on a sport touring motorcycle.
SweeperCarver, I bet you could sell ice to Eskimos.
Randy I have actually shipped several dozen ice machines to Alaska when I worked in that field....not sure who the end users were though. :-)
There is a Motus Maniacs FB page where other Motus owners are collecting and sharing. Several folks have logged serious miles on their bikes already with no issues. I will keep you posted.
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Motus is really the V4. I expect you will see it other places. Motus has put it into a Ferrari replica, Polaris RZR and the Bienville ($350k on 12 exist). Think American Rotax or V4 S & S.
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MadScientistCornerCarverFor me I would probably lean more toward a Ducati Mulistrada AND a dedicated RSV4 track bike
Personally, I'd stick with a VFR1200 and the aforementioned RSV4....
True, if they had purchased the name "Vincent" then all they would have to do is deliver a product that met the expectations of the consumer and nobody would bat an eye at $35k. Though the name Motus is yet to proven, they seem to have the engineering down and the performance is equal to or above most of the other bikes in the S-T group.
https://rideapart.com/articles/interview-lee-conn-president-co-founder-motus has a good interview with the founder. I'll pull this one line out:
"I’ve spent plenty of cash over the years fixing annoyances with mass-produced bikes, so this is near and dear to me. Why not just design, engineer and equip build[sic] bikes with components that are not intended to be replaced immediately?"
This is a valid point of marketing. Say we've got a $12000 S-T motorcycle and we add:
Seat - $300
Suspension - $5000 (Slight overestimate - nix 30 @ $3000, ttx 36 (MSTR only)@ $2000)
Luggage - $800 ($200 mounts, $600 side cases)
BST Wheels - $3700 (BST on MSTR only) - assuming you can even get these for the bike you started with
Brakes + SS Lines - Call it $1500 - again depends what you can find that fits, could be +/- $500.
------ Total: $11300 bringing our bike to ~$23300 + labor or personal time to install said goodies.
MSTR MSRP: $36975
Two questions remain: What is the value of having all this equipment protected by the factory warranty? What is the Motus tag on the tank worth?
If the company can deliver on all the other aspects expected of a premium sport touring machine - warranty repair time, customer care, technical support and if the bike is actually free of "annoyances with mass-produced bikes". The VFR charging system is a case in point - how much extra would VFR owners have paid to have a charging system that they never had to worry about? Did Motus make any of these sacrifices anywhere?
I guess only time will actually tell on this one. If I'm not paying $35k to be competitive on a track, then it must absolutely excel at being a sport tourer, like best in class handling, acceleration, comfort, reliability, and range/efficiency. Three of these can be discerned right now, reliability and Motus' reaction to any issues that come up will only be known once the fleet starts racking up real-world miles. Then we will know if any sacrifices were truly made and what the Motus name is worth. Regardless of how much testing is done, the early adopters ARE the beta testers much like any new model release. I'd like to see Motus succeed for a variety of reasons, but they will have a hard time convincing me and many other riders to drop 35 large on a sport touring motorcycle.
Don't forget labor and time.
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CornerCarverMadScientistCornerCarverI am going to respectfully disagree with this line of thought as I think what Motus would deem a success is far different from what we expect from Honda and other main-stream manufacturers. From an automotive perspective it would be akin to comparing Porsche (pre 4 door and SUV days) to one of the Detroit big 3. Of course the Ohlins parts dont account for $20,000 in added value. Motus has to price the bike at that level to recoup the Katech development costs but they want to price it there to create an aspirational brand.
I think they would be more than happy to be selling 250-300 bikes a year in 3 years at $35k each instead of trying to sell 750 bikes at $15k each to reach the same total sales dollars or more than 1,000 per year to generate the same margins.
I'm not sure if that line of logic is valid. Porsche is an established marque with a racing and performance heritage. Motus is a newbie on the block. I understand paying more for engineering or ownership of a certain brand name; but I'm not sure if Motus is in a position to command such a brand premium given the product they are delivering. Is Motus claiming, regardless of purpose, to have better than the entire sum of engineering leading to a significantly lower priced R1? The follow up to that is: "Come to the track and prove it." At $35k with no collector value, a small dealer network, medium performance (in the grand scheme of things), and no existing "street cred," there better be some other compelling reason for me to purchase one (like, this bike is guaranteed to get you laid).
You make some valid points. One of which is that I didn't take the time to properly frame a good analogy. I suppose if Motus purchased the rights to the Vincent name (for example) it would be more like what VW did with Bugatti.
They would then be resurrecting a known name with a history and positioning it in the market where they want. All that they have done differently at this point is have a new name and to my mind the only thing that can derail the plan is they fail to deliver on quality or find themselves pricing their bikes around $15k in a few years.
If they never lower the price then there will be no devaluing of the product that the early adopters paid for (as with the VFR1200) and therefore the perception that it is a $10k bike because that is what the 3 year old leftover new bikes sell for.
Even if they fall on their collective faces and only produce 100 over a few years then the bikes that are in circulation could reach collectible status. Look back some of the low volume classics both 4 wheeled and two that you would have purchased 3 of (one to drive/ride and two to sell for retirement) had you only been sure of how their future value would have soared in the years to come.
I am not saying that a 1650 cc V4 that only revs to 8k is for me but I admire their Quixotic penchant for tilting at the mass production windmill. For all we know in 2016 small volume marketing is one end of the new normal as people want to own something that suits them and they wont see on every street corner (or Starbucks). The opposite end of that normal would be low cost disposable bikes for the 3 billion or so people in developing nations.
MadScientistMy point was that they need to do something to justify the brand premium.
What if some new car company came out tomorrow with a well engineered and assembled sport sedan, though not really all that different from what is on the market. Let's say they want $200k for it.
Instead, what if it was a sports car?
I'm not saying I don't like the Motus, but I think they are coming at the market wrong. Their pricing is stratospheric for no reason other than their say-so.
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and BST carbon fiber wheels, and a Sargent seat, and Givi luggage, and Ohlins TTX 36 shock, and Ohlins NIX 30 forks (fully adjustable), and Brembo monoblock M4 calipers and Brembo radial master cylinders...and their are betting that some want a small block V4 with 180 bhp that sounds uniquely American....
For me I would probably lean more toward a Ducati Mulistrada AND a dedicated RSV4 track bike
The Multi and RSV would make a nice pairing. I am going to boot the Motus around Thunderhill when track days resume. Should make for some interesting thoughts.
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MadScientistDuc2V4Considering some people spend way more than $35k on a Harley, $35k seems like a bargain, especially for what you get!
Again back to the brand thing, these buyers are getting "heritage" or a "lifestyle" - comes down to a value decision for the consumer of course. Again though, this reputation has been established by years of existence and the clientele that centers around it. A Harley is basically the entry fee for membership in a club of sorts (figuratively and literally in some cases).
Forgive me if I'm making a sweeping generalization here, but the clientele of the "sport-touring" club, on the other hand, often makes a value decision based on what the product physically delivers for the money rather than strictly the badge on the tank. Don't get me wrong, the Motus does deliver a lot, but the price per performance, comfort, and amenity ratio is just not there.
I think Motus is bent over a barrel on amortizing R&D costs combined with their annual manufacturing capability. To justify the cost, they must attempt to create a niche (high $$, exclusive, sport touring motorcycle). It's a balancing act between pricing the bike, meeting the demand associated with this price, production capabilities, and costs of doing business. Of course Motus has some accountant that has done the math, but I'm not sure if the price is based on producing at capacity or the assumption that they will sell every bike they produce.
rideredNot just better, double the price and then some better.... It is a V-4 sport tourer, so every detail has to be better the the VFR1200...
Cruise control, heated seat and grips. The alternator is the same as a Honda Accord I think.
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Ram mount, iPhone
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rideredTo me the devil is in the details. It has a premium price, but not premium execution. The pillion grab handles look like an after thought, the mirrors were stolen from my '98, the lollipop turn signals look cheap. For 35,000 everything detail has to be perfect. It is a V-4 sport tourer, so every detail has to be better the the VFR1200. If you look at a Porsche, or Ferrari it is clear why they command a premium price. IMO the Motus does not look premium, not even close. I can't speak about performance, never have rode one. But, if I look at a Ducati, it is clear that some engineer and designer spent hours making every part look beautiful, and perform great. For the money, it had better look like art, and perform too.
You need to see a Motus in person and up close. Ducati has nothing on the Motus. I do love my Duc also.
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Motus005There is a Motus Maniacs FB page where other Motus owners are collecting and sharing. Several folks have logged serious miles on their bikes already with no issues. I will keep you posted.
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Motus is really the V4. I expect you will see it other places. Motus has put it into a Ferrari replica, Polaris RZR and the Bienville ($350k on 12 exist). Think American Rotax or V4 S & S.
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MadScientistCornerCarverFor me I would probably lean more toward a Ducati Mulistrada AND a dedicated RSV4 track bike
Personally, I'd stick with a VFR1200 and the aforementioned RSV4....
True, if they had purchased the name "Vincent" then all they would have to do is deliver a product that met the expectations of the consumer and nobody would bat an eye at $35k. Though the name Motus is yet to proven, they seem to have the engineering down and the performance is equal to or above most of the other bikes in the S-T group.
https://rideapart.com/articles/interview-lee-conn-president-co-founder-motus has a good interview with the founder. I'll pull this one line out:
"I’ve spent plenty of cash over the years fixing annoyances with mass-produced bikes, so this is near and dear to me. Why not just design, engineer and equip build[sic] bikes with components that are not intended to be replaced immediately?"
This is a valid point of marketing. Say we've got a $12000 S-T motorcycle and we add:
Seat - $300
Suspension - $5000 (Slight overestimate - nix 30 @ $3000, ttx 36 (MSTR only)@ $2000)
Luggage - $800 ($200 mounts, $600 side cases)
BST Wheels - $3700 (BST on MSTR only) - assuming you can even get these for the bike you started with
Brakes + SS Lines - Call it $1500 - again depends what you can find that fits, could be +/- $500.
------ Total: $11300 bringing our bike to ~$23300 + labor or personal time to install said goodies.
MSTR MSRP: $36975
Two questions remain: What is the value of having all this equipment protected by the factory warranty? What is the Motus tag on the tank worth?
If the company can deliver on all the other aspects expected of a premium sport touring machine - warranty repair time, customer care, technical support and if the bike is actually free of "annoyances with mass-produced bikes". The VFR charging system is a case in point - how much extra would VFR owners have paid to have a charging system that they never had to worry about? Did Motus make any of these sacrifices anywhere?
I guess only time will actually tell on this one. If I'm not paying $35k to be competitive on a track, then it must absolutely excel at being a sport tourer, like best in class handling, acceleration, comfort, reliability, and range/efficiency. Three of these can be discerned right now, reliability and Motus' reaction to any issues that come up will only be known once the fleet starts racking up real-world miles. Then we will know if any sacrifices were truly made and what the Motus name is worth. Regardless of how much testing is done, the early adopters ARE the beta testers much like any new model release. I'd like to see Motus succeed for a variety of reasons, but they will have a hard time convincing me and many other riders to drop 35 large on a sport touring motorcycle.
Don't forget labor and time.
It's in there ;) Though, For a gearhead tinkerer such as myself, I don't see this as a cost...f
Maybe you are in a position to know or have some insight into Motus. How many bikes do they want to produce every year? Do they plan to produce as many as they are capable of, or a pre-defined number? I realize production lines and quality control have costs. I'm fairly sure they will be built or equipped as necessary by dealer order but was curious if Motus anticipates demand for their full manufacturing capability.
MadScientistMotus005There is a Motus Maniacs FB page where other Motus owners are collecting and sharing. Several folks have logged serious miles on their bikes already with no issues. I will keep you posted.
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Motus is really the V4. I expect you will see it other places. Motus has put it into a Ferrari replica, Polaris RZR and the Bienville ($350k on 12 exist). Think American Rotax or V4 S & S.
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MadScientistDon't forget labor and time.CornerCarverFor me I would probably lean more toward a Ducati Mulistrada AND a dedicated RSV4 track bike
Personally, I'd stick with a VFR1200 and the aforementioned RSV4....
True, if they had purchased the name "Vincent" then all they would have to do is deliver a product that met the expectations of the consumer and nobody would bat an eye at $35k. Though the name Motus is yet to proven, they seem to have the engineering down and the performance is equal to or above most of the other bikes in the S-T group.
https://rideapart.com/articles/interview-lee-conn-president-co-founder-motus has a good interview with the founder. I'll pull this one line out:
"I’ve spent plenty of cash over the years fixing annoyances with mass-produced bikes, so this is near and dear to me. Why not just design, engineer and equip build[sic] bikes with components that are not intended to be replaced immediately?"
This is a valid point of marketing. Say we've got a $12000 S-T motorcycle and we add:
Seat - $300
Suspension - $5000 (Slight overestimate - nix 30 @ $3000, ttx 36 (MSTR only)@ $2000)
Luggage - $800 ($200 mounts, $600 side cases)
BST Wheels - $3700 (BST on MSTR only) - assuming you can even get these for the bike you started with
Brakes + SS Lines - Call it $1500 - again depends what you can find that fits, could be +/- $500.
------ Total: $11300 bringing our bike to ~$23300 + labor or personal time to install said goodies.
MSTR MSRP: $36975
Two questions remain: What is the value of having all this equipment protected by the factory warranty? What is the Motus tag on the tank worth?
If the company can deliver on all the other aspects expected of a premium sport touring machine - warranty repair time, customer care, technical support and if the bike is actually free of "annoyances with mass-produced bikes". The VFR charging system is a case in point - how much extra would VFR owners have paid to have a charging system that they never had to worry about? Did Motus make any of these sacrifices anywhere?
I guess only time will actually tell on this one. If I'm not paying $35k to be competitive on a track, then it must absolutely excel at being a sport tourer, like best in class handling, acceleration, comfort, reliability, and range/efficiency. Three of these can be discerned right now, reliability and Motus' reaction to any issues that come up will only be known once the fleet starts racking up real-world miles. Then we will know if any sacrifices were truly made and what the Motus name is worth. Regardless of how much testing is done, the early adopters ARE the beta testers much like any new model release. I'd like to see Motus succeed for a variety of reasons, but they will have a hard time convincing me and many other riders to drop 35 large on a sport touring motorcycle.
I didn't ;) For a gearhead tinkerer such as myself, I don't see this as a cost...
Maybe you are in a position to know or have some insight into Motus. How many bikes do they want to produce every year? Do they plan to produce as many as they are capable of, or a pre-defined number? I realize production lines and quality control have costs. I'm fairly sure they will be built or equipped as necessary by dealer order but was curious if Motus anticipates demand for their full manufacturing capability.
I guess between 100-200/yr. Keep an eye on where the V4 shows up.
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New Rizoma blinkers
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New Rizoma Veloce mirrors
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New tail light
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Black Rizoma tanks
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Motus, that is a beauty bike, I am sure you were waiting for my validation before finalizing any buyer's remorse doubts. :)
Reading some of the comments here, it seems that sometimes we forget that desire is not rooted in finances and incremental improvements have exponential cost. The La Ferrari is not 3 or 4 times the car of an F12, or the NSX is not 6 to 8 times the car of a Civic.
I appreciate being able to live vicariously through you and you willingness to share your experiences as I am certainly not in a position to experience first hand.
Sweet ^^^ !!!
Nice!
UltimatevfrNice!
180 degree crank ?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=i0tOuTMQvK0#t=149
voiceoffireReading some of the comments here, it seems that sometimes we forget that desire is not rooted in finances and incremental improvements have exponential cost. The La Ferrari is not 3 or 4 times the car of an F12, or the NSX is not 6 to 8 times the car of a Civic.
Absolutely true, but we've gone over this. The question is not whether the incremental improvements are worth it, but whether having them all pre-packaged and assembled (with a warranty) is worth anything additional over the combined cost of the improvements themselves. Especially when many (most?) of us have difficulty extracting the full potential of stock motorcycles.
It is fairly obvious why people desire Ducatis, Harleys, BMWs(?!?), etc (or NSXs/La Ferraris for that matter), they are getting either art, a status symbol, something intangible. At this point, some of these manufacturers can command a premium for a product based on reputation alone, the product doesn't even have to be better than everything else out there. What percent of La Ferrari owners are ever going to ask their car to outperform a F12 (or even a Civic for that matter)? If Ferrari sold the La Ferrari, with the limitation that the car be driven no more that 50 miles each year, would it sell out? Almost guaranteed.
Motus may have done the right thing in going with a high asking price (possibly just a little too high) in setting the customer expectations that they are purchasing a premium product from a premium label, but they really need bikes on the road and happy customers spreading the word about their Motus experience. Until they have a reputation though, their price demands that they actually are better than everything else out there, in almost every way. Things like looks will always be subjective, but I do think there is some room for improvement there.
Two HUGE things that would boost Motus image:
1. Competent mechanics/Honest service departments - who here has laid down their hard earned cash to recieve shoddy, incomplete, or improper maintenance done at a dealer? Or had their bike damaged? And when you complain about it, the service manager won't admit it OR blames you.
2. No Hassle Warranty Repairs - following on the above point, unless the failure seems to be obviously customer inflicted, it MUST be repaired - quickly and without a lengthy claim submission.
These might be hard given that Motus is trying to recruit dealers and service centers, so they are not really in a great position to penalize poor dealer service or pull franchises.
I wonder why Motus didn't go with electronically controlled or active suspension.
rideredTo me the devil is in the details. It has a premium price, but not premium execution. The pillion grab handles look like an after thought, the mirrors were stolen from my '98, the lollipop turn signals look cheap. For 35,000 everything detail has to be perfect. It is a V-4 sport tourer, so every detail has to be better the the VFR1200. If you look at a Porsche, or Ferrari it is clear why they command a premium price. IMO the Motus does not look premium, not even close. I can't speak about performance, never have rode one. But, if I look at a Ducati, it is clear that some engineer and designer spent hours making every part look beautiful, and perform great. For the money, it had better look like art, and perform too.
I replaced the mirrors, turn signal and tail light.
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MadScientistvoiceoffireReading some of the comments here, it seems that sometimes we forget that desire is not rooted in finances and incremental improvements have exponential cost. The La Ferrari is not 3 or 4 times the car of an F12, or the NSX is not 6 to 8 times the car of a Civic.
Absolutely true, but we've gone over this. The question is not whether the incremental improvements are worth it, but whether having them all pre-packaged and assembled (with a warranty) is worth anything additional over the combined cost of the improvements themselves. Especially when many (most?) of us have difficulty extracting the full potential of stock motorcycles.
It is fairly obvious why people desire Ducatis, Harleys, BMWs(?!?), etc (or NSXs/La Ferraris for that matter), they are getting either art, a status symbol, something intangible. At this point, some of these manufacturers can command a premium for a product based on reputation alone, the product doesn't even have to be better than everything else out there. What percent of La Ferrari owners are ever going to ask their car to outperform a F12 (or even a Civic for that matter)? If Ferrari sold the La Ferrari, with the limitation that the car be driven no more that 50 miles each year, would it sell out? Almost guaranteed.
Motus may have done the right thing in going with a high asking price (possibly just a little too high) in setting the customer expectations that they are purchasing a premium product from a premium label, but they really need bikes on the road and happy customers spreading the word about their Motus experience. Until they have a reputation though, their price demands that they actually are better than everything else out there, in almost every way. Things like looks will always be subjective, but I do think there is some room for improvement there.
Two HUGE things that would boost Motus image:
1. Competent mechanics/Honest service departments - who here has laid down their hard earned cash to recieve shoddy, incomplete, or improper maintenance done at a dealer? Or had their bike damaged? And when you complain about it, the service manager won't admit it OR blames you.
2. No Hassle Warranty Repairs - following on the above point, unless the failure seems to be obviously customer inflicted, it MUST be repaired - quickly and without a lengthy claim submission.
These might be hard given that Motus is trying to recruit dealers and service centers, so they are not really in a great position to penalize poor dealer service or pull franchises.
I wonder why Motus didn't go with electronically controlled or active suspension.
I think you may choose one of the above(either competent, no hassle repairs or electronically controlled suspension).
At this point in their development of their dealer/service network that may be too much to ask (with regard to electronically controlled or active suspension).
CornerCarverMadScientistvoiceoffireReading some of the comments here, it seems that sometimes we forget that desire is not rooted in finances and incremental improvements have exponential cost. The La Ferrari is not 3 or 4 times the car of an F12, or the NSX is not 6 to 8 times the car of a Civic.
Absolutely true, but we've gone over this. The question is not whether the incremental improvements are worth it, but whether having them all pre-packaged and assembled (with a warranty) is worth anything additional over the combined cost of the improvements themselves. Especially when many (most?) of us have difficulty extracting the full potential of stock motorcycles.
It is fairly obvious why people desire Ducatis, Harleys, BMWs(?!?), etc (or NSXs/La Ferraris for that matter), they are getting either art, a status symbol, something intangible. At this point, some of these manufacturers can command a premium for a product based on reputation alone, the product doesn't even have to be better than everything else out there. What percent of La Ferrari owners are ever going to ask their car to outperform a F12 (or even a Civic for that matter)? If Ferrari sold the La Ferrari, with the limitation that the car be driven no more that 50 miles each year, would it sell out? Almost guaranteed.
Motus may have done the right thing in going with a high asking price (possibly just a little too high) in setting the customer expectations that they are purchasing a premium product from a premium label, but they really need bikes on the road and happy customers spreading the word about their Motus experience. Until they have a reputation though, their price demands that they actually are better than everything else out there, in almost every way. Things like looks will always be subjective, but I do think there is some room for improvement there.
Two HUGE things that would boost Motus image:
1. Competent mechanics/Honest service departments - who here has laid down their hard earned cash to recieve shoddy, incomplete, or improper maintenance done at a dealer? Or had their bike damaged? And when you complain about it, the service manager won't admit it OR blames you.
2. No Hassle Warranty Repairs - following on the above point, unless the failure seems to be obviously customer inflicted, it MUST be repaired - quickly and without a lengthy claim submission.
These might be hard given that Motus is trying to recruit dealers and service centers, so they are not really in a great position to penalize poor dealer service or pull franchises.
I wonder why Motus didn't go with electronically controlled or active suspension.
I think you may choose one of the above(either competent, no hassle repairs or electronically controlled suspension).
At this point in their development of their dealer/service network that may be too much to ask (with regard to electronically controlled or active suspension).
My dealer experience was really good with CA speed sports. Kregg and the crew email me and check in on how the bike is doing.
Motus carries a 2 year unlimited mileage warranty. I have texted with Jim at the Motus factory to get answer on certain bolts/parts/etc. Pretty darn good if you ask me.
Oil change is simple, filter and mobile one. Probably the easiest ever on a bike.
Go ask a tech how much fun it is to take the tank off a Ducati Scrambler.
The Motus is extremely well thought out. I guess when you contemplate something for 8 yrs it should be.
The suspension is top notch Ohlins. I hated the electronic suspension on my 1199s Panigale. Same goes for the BMW GS.
I expect Motus to offer upgrade packages to the current fleet of bikes going out there. Rumor has it we might see a smaller alternator option to squeeze in a super charger!
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I love the bike... I have since I read about it in development. Presses all the right buttons for me. If hit the lottery I'll do a 3 year long term North America 100k+ miles tour to test reliability.
I volunteer to do a long term touring reliability test now if Motus needs anyone... who should I contact? :goofy:
I really wish the engine wasn't so expensive. Before the Katech-Motus split, they had multiple displacements for the V4. IIRC, they listed a 1.6L, 2.0L, and a 2.4L. Really is a shame that there isn't a market for the engine to bring the cost down. It's not like Mazda is going to come knocking asking about producing the engine for the new MX-5 or anything.
The 1.6L is a bit small, but if they did the 2.0L or 2.4L, that would be an awesome kit car engine. But for $10k, 95% will go with a donor car instead.
Motus005CornerCarverI think you may choose one of the above(either competent, no hassle repairs or electronically controlled suspension).
My dealer experience was really good with CA speed sports. Kregg and the crew email me and check in on how the bike is doing.
Motus carries a 2 year unlimited mileage warranty. I have texted with Jim at the Motus factory to get answer on certain bolts/parts/etc. Pretty darn good if you ask me.
Oil change is simple, filter and mobile one. Probably the easiest ever on a bike.
Go ask a tech how much fun it is to take the tank off a Ducati Scrambler.
The Motus is extremely well thought out. I guess when you contemplate something for 8 yrs it should be.
The suspension is top notch Ohlins. I hated the electronic suspension on my 1199s Panigale. Same goes for the BMW GS.
CC - for a new brand, I take warranty and repairs over elec. suspension. I was just wondering why they didn't go that route.
Motus - I've never been on an 1199, but I've been on an R1200 RS with Dynamic ESA and loved it. What didn't you like about the GS (suspension specifically, there are LOTS of other things to not like about the GS)?
YoshiHNSI really wish the engine wasn't so expensive. Before the Katech-Motus split, they had multiple displacements for the V4. IIRC, they listed a 1.6L, 2.0L, and a 2.4L. Really is a shame that there isn't a market for the engine to bring the cost down. It's not like Mazda is going to come knocking asking about producing the engine for the new MX-5 or anything.
The 1.6L is a bit small, but if they did the 2.0L or 2.4L, that would be an awesome kit car engine. But for $10k, 95% will go with a donor car instead.
Expect Motus to sell those engines.
There is enough material in the block to go to 2 liters and then Motus has already demo'd supercharging on the "Lonestar" custom and Bienville.
MadScientistMotus005CornerCarverMy dealer experience was really good with CA speed sports. Kregg and the crew email me and check in on how the bike is doing.I think you may choose one of the above(either competent, no hassle repairs or electronically controlled suspension).
Motus carries a 2 year unlimited mileage warranty. I have texted with Jim at the Motus factory to get answer on certain bolts/parts/etc. Pretty darn good if you ask me.
Oil change is simple, filter and mobile one. Probably the easiest ever on a bike.
Go ask a tech how much fun it is to take the tank off a Ducati Scrambler.
The Motus is extremely well thought out. I guess when you contemplate something for 8 yrs it should be.
The suspension is top notch Ohlins. I hated the electronic suspension on my 1199s Panigale. Same goes for the BMW GS.
CC - for a new brand, I take warranty and repairs over elec. suspension. I was just wondering why they didn't go that route.
Motus - I've never been on an 1199, but I've been on an R1200 RS with Dynamic ESA and loved it. What didn't you like about the GS (suspension specifically, there are LOTS of other things to not like about the GS)?
In the GS it was something else to break.... My dealer even advised against it on the GS. Also, most GS swap the rear shock at some point.
I did have Reaction Catalyst do the setup for the Motus so I get the most out of the Ohlins. Good suspension folks do make a difference. Access to the rear shock adjusters is a bit tricky with the frame.
Motus005YoshiHNSI really wish the engine wasn't so expensive. Before the Katech-Motus split, they had multiple displacements for the V4. IIRC, they listed a 1.6L, 2.0L, and a 2.4L. Really is a shame that there isn't a market for the engine to bring the cost down. It's not like Mazda is going to come knocking asking about producing the engine for the new MX-5 or anything.
The 1.6L is a bit small, but if they did the 2.0L or 2.4L, that would be an awesome kit car engine. But for $10k, 95% will go with a donor car instead.
Expect Motus to sell those engines.
There is enough material in the block to go to 2 liters and then Motus has already demo'd supercharging on the "Lonestar" custom and Bienville.
MadScientistMotus005CornerCarverMy dealer experience was really good with CA speed sports. Kregg and the crew email me and check in on how the bike is doing.I think you may choose one of the above(either competent, no hassle repairs or electronically controlled suspension).
Motus carries a 2 year unlimited mileage warranty. I have texted with Jim at the Motus factory to get answer on certain bolts/parts/etc. Pretty darn good if you ask me.
Oil change is simple, filter and mobile one. Probably the easiest ever on a bike.
Go ask a tech how much fun it is to take the tank off a Ducati Scrambler.
The Motus is extremely well thought out. I guess when you contemplate something for 8 yrs it should be.
The suspension is top notch Ohlins. I hated the electronic suspension on my 1199s Panigale. Same goes for the BMW GS.
CC - for a new brand, I take warranty and repairs over elec. suspension. I was just wondering why they didn't go that route.
Motus - I've never been on an 1199, but I've been on an R1200 RS with Dynamic ESA and loved it. What didn't you like about the GS (suspension specifically, there are LOTS of other things to not like about the GS)?
In the GS it was something else to break.... My dealer even advised against it on the GS. Also, most GS swap the rear shock at some point.
I did have Reaction Catalyst do the setup for the Motus so I get the most out of the Ohlins. Good suspension folks do make a difference. Access to the rear shock adjusters is a bit tricky with the frame.
I definitely understand that. As someone who has seriously considered both a K1300 and R1200, the failure rate in general seems disproportionate with many other brands. Maybe it has something to do with the owners or typical use for these bikes, but I don't get a "reliable" vibe from either. All of this aside, I thought the dynamic suspension was quite good. Smoother than anything I've ever ridden on the slab and confidence inspiring in the curves. Probably expensive to fix and something I would trust few dealers to do properly.
My GS was a 2009. I know BMW has improved this year over year. The Multistrada's new electronic do dads are really impressive also. Maybe Motus can get a "trickle down" from these advances.
I have to confess a soft spot for the 2015 and newer Multistrada electronics package.
The myriad settings for throttle mapping, anti-wheelie and suspension firmness are all programmable into the base four settings of Enduro (limited to 100hp), Urban, Touring and Sport.
During the 3 day Ducati demo event I thought I would prefer the sport setting but liked the default touring setting for around town and traffic and only switched to the sport setting when I wanted to loft a wheel or hoon around.
If I owned it I would program in a little less anti wheelie and keep the plushness of the suspension for the default setting.
Took a 40 mile ride this afternoon to Motus (Ducati, Aprillia, etc) dealer in Livermore, CA., to look at one. Got to say for a first generation the design and craftsmanship looked very good. I am sure when compared to manufacturers that have been around for many years, you can find things to complain about, but overall, very impressive. They have sold 5 already!
I stopped in at RPM motorsporrts in Dallas Texas today while on my lunch break and looked one over. Talked with the manager there (Boris) who is very knowledgeable about the bikes (he has two old VF-Rs a 1986 700 and a 1985 VF1000R) and his daily rider is a Sprint ST1050.
He says that the instant on torque of the Motus will spoil you. Part of it is the V4 platform is inherhently more torquey than an inline but having 1650 cc on tap goes a long way. Anyone who has thrashed an ST1300 knows what he is saying there.
He offered me a ride on the bike there (MST) but i didn't have any gear and plan on swinging by Motus in Birmingham in the next few weeks anyway.
Very well finished bike with impressive brakes, exhaust, suspension, the works!
The MSTR is the one I would consider.
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Time to get that tacker out and re-do the upholstery! :wink:
I had to (re)do a section on mine too after a little while
Now she is perfectly tight.
How timely... an article on the Motus!
I really dig this bike.... anybody want to buy a kidney?
So Duccmann came by today so we could install his newly rebuilt 6 Gen shock he got back from Jamie Daugherty. After we were done we decided to go over to the Indian, Victory, Aprilia and Motus dealer literally down the road from where I live. Although we didn't do a test ride, getting a first hand view of these beautiful motorcycles was enough to see why one wouldn't be turned off by the price tag!
Here's Duccmann posing with a Motus that was in their break room.
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Here is 1 MSTR (Left) and 2 MSTs (Middle, Right)
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All your Duc..er Motus' in a row
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Found these adjustable bars to be very interesting
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Now how much would you pay?!
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Motus exclusive event in Austin for MotoGP
That would be a ride out that I would love be on...
... and if I couldn't be on it I would LOVE to hear the group of them pull out!
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^^ That must sound like the start of the Daytona 500.
Ducati start up comparison.
Ducati comparison.
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Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
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Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
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This is an interesting bike indeed. I have to wonder where and under what kind of riding circumstances it would perform best. To me, it looks like it would be riding fast in mostly straight lines. I don't see this bike performing near to what a VFR will do in the tight twisties of the Smokies or any other twisty haven. We all like to dream and some with funds to burn will buy one of these machines. As for now, I'll just enjoy my "too expensive" (anyone that paid list is nuts), too heavy, under-powered, VTEC, VFR that does quite a few things quite well. So, am I comparing a Motus to a VFR? Of course. The Motus is going to be compared to a lot of motorcycles and they will have to compete unless they expect to only sell to those with unlimited funds looking for a novelty that compares to nothing well. I'll be visiting their place in Birmingham. They have a nice idea but getting people to separate from their money is their biggest challenge IMHO. They have to answer that age old marketing question for every consumer that buys one, and it is, "what's in it for me"? People that get one will be able to answer that.
Finally got to ride one today.
HOLY CRAP. They do handle very well with the funky Helibars providing a lot of leverage.
They sound amazing. There is even more to the MSTR that is special than I previously thought or noticed. If I pull the trigger it will definitely be for the MSTR with hand laid carbon body and carbon Akrapovik instead of the standard Akrapovik exhaust. Monoblock Brembo calipers are the real deal, not your garden variety cast Brembos for sure.
The difference in hp between MST and MSTR is just icing on my fat arse cake. The MST will loft the front as high as you want in the first two gears with just a proper twist of the grip. Tremendous torque and incredible sound from 3k to 6500 or so. The MST redlines at 7500 and the MSTR at 8500 (about the same as the ST1300).
In fact the bike actually feels like the love child of an ST1300 and RC51. It has a truly amazing power plant.
For those who are curious not many options can be added. As you know or have read the seat is made by Sargent (heated or not tall or low seat are the options on the seat) and the exhaust is Akropovic. It has an american made tool kit under the seat (made in Cali) and you can damn near disassemble the bike with the included tool kit. BraKing rotors and Brembo masters on the BST wheels. Each bike is hand made and the craftsmen who assemble them sign their names on the bikes (not on the painted surface).
They are building 3 bikes a week and that is all they really want to do. The reference I made to a VIncent in the first couple pages of this thread resonated with the President and Co-founder of Motus who lead the group rides yesterday and today from Hourglass Cycles in Buford, GA (surprisingly good rider :goofy: ) and he is still very passionate about motorcycling and motorcycle manufacturing.
Good group of people at Hourglass Cycles, very knowledgeable sales group and I spoke to several people who have purchased and service their bikes there, the shop gets very high grades. There was a VeeStrom with a side hack there and the service guy who sets up the hacks have set up over 100 of them!
The dealer sold their red MST yesterday after a demo ride and the new owner was there picking up his bike and dropping of the BMW K1600GTL that he was trading in for it. Look for the Motus demo truck or email them at Motus and see if they are going to be in your area soon, go by and take a look at the bikes. You will be impressed.
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Your posting priviledges should be suspended until I can swing the purchase price. :goofy:
2016 at 5:59 PM, CornerCarver, June 11Finally got to ride one today.
HOLY CRAP. They do handle very well with the funky Helibars providing a lot of leverage.
They sound amazing. There is even more to the MSTR that is special than I previously thought or noticed. If I pull the trigger it will definitely be for the MSTR with hand laid carbon body and carbon Akrapovik instead of the standard Akrapovik exhaust. Monoblock Brembo calipers are the real deal, not your garden variety cast Brembos for sure.The difference in hp between MST and MSTR is just icing on my fat arse cake. The MST will loft the front as high as you want in the first two gears with just a proper twist of the grip. Tremendous torque and incredible sound from 3k to 6500 or so. The MST redlines at 7500 and the MSTR at 8500 (about the same as the ST1300).
In fact the bike actually feels like the love child of an ST1300 and RC51. It has a truly amazing power plant.
For those who are curious not many options can be added. As you know or have read the seat is made by Sargent (heated or not tall or low seat are the options on the seat) and the exhaust is Akropovic. It has an american made tool kit under the seat (made in Cali) and you can damn near disassemble the bike with the included tool kit. BraKing rotors and Brembo masters on the BST wheels. Each bike is hand made and the craftsmen who assemble them sign their names on the bikes (not on the painted surface).
They are building 3 bikes a week and that is all they really want to do. The reference I made to a VIncent in the first couple pages of this thread resonated with the President and Co-founder of Motus who lead the group rides yesterday and today from Hourglass Cycles in Buford, GA (surprisingly good rider :goofy: ) and he is still very passionate about motorcycling and motorcycle manufacturing.Good group of people at Hourglass Cycles, very knowledgeable sales group and I spoke to several people who have purchased and service their bikes there, the shop gets very high grades. There was a VeeStrom with a side hack there and the service guy who sets up the hacks have set up over 100 of them!
The dealer sold their red MST yesterday after a demo ride and the new owner was there picking up his bike and dropping of the BMW K1600GTL that he was trading in for it. Look for the Motus demo truck or email them at Motus and see if they are going to be in your area soon, go by and take a look at the bikes. You will be impressed.
Thanks CC. Although I'm only a few miles from the dealer in Westminster, I just never made the time to actually test ride one. Partly because I'm afraid I might like it too much and don't really have the funds at the moment to buy one. These are definitely gorgeous bikes, being hand built makes them even more special IMO. They are definitely for the discerning buyer who does have the money to spend but honestly there are so many bikes out there that if I did have the money, they would be in my 20 car, err bike garage. The Motus would most likely be sitting there in the same garage space as my RC-213V!
If Honda does a WSBK homologation of a 1000cc V4 then that is what i would have to purchase before this Motus.
Still wondering how to get a sponsor for my uncle and I to ride the Motus to Alaska and back next year. He has been planning this trip for a couple of years.
I rode my VFR yesterday, went in to get some lunch and there was a Motus parked right next to my VFR when I was ready to mount up and go home. I looked over the Motus pretty good and felt even better riding home through the twisties on my VFR knowing what it is capable of doing. I didn't see any value for me parked next to my VFR for us commoners. It just had nothing to impress me for any amount of money. Yeah, lots of HP with lots of weight.
Bent, 11/6/2016 at 0:48 PMI rode my VFR yesterday, went in to get some lunch and there was a Motus parked right next to my VFR when I was ready to mount up and go home. I looked over the Motus pretty good and felt even better riding home through the twisties on my VFR knowing what it is capable of doing. I didn't see any value for me parked next to my VFR for us commoners. It just had nothing to impress me for any amount of money. Yeah, lots of HP with lots of weight.
Yeah, nothing to see here....keep moving. Well yes, those are Brembo monoblock brakes, with Ohlins TTX36 shock and top of the line NIX30 forks, OZ forged wheels, carbon fiber body work, Sargent seat and Heli bars standard....and speaking of HP you nailed it, 180 hp in the MSTR and at 565 lbs wet with full tank of gas and luggage on it is a bit lighter than the VFR800 (current gen - QUITE a bit lighter than the VFR800 6G).
But it is just as expensive as you would expect a handmade bike of which 3 per week are produced would be.
I'll just keep VFRing along. Got a paycheck this week that I could drop on a Motus and pay for it but I already have a bike that does the same thing as a Motus at less than a third the price and enough HP to get me in trouble already. Motus is a curious bike that fills somebody's niche, just not mine. To each their own. Wonder how long they'll be around.
CornerCarver, 6/11/2016 at 5:59 PMFinally got to ride one today.
HOLY CRAP. They do handle very well with the funky Helibars providing a lot of leverage.
They sound amazing. There is even more to the MSTR that is special than I previously thought or noticed. If I pull the trigger it will definitely be for the MSTR with hand laid carbon body and carbon Akrapovik instead of the standard Akrapovik exhaust. Monoblock Brembo calipers are the real deal, not your garden variety cast Brembos for sure.The difference in hp between MST and MSTR is just icing on my fat arse cake. The MST will loft the front as high as you want in the first two gears with just a proper twist of the grip. Tremendous torque and incredible sound from 3k to 6500 or so. The MST redlines at 7500 and the MSTR at 8500 (about the same as the ST1300).
In fact the bike actually feels like the love child of an ST1300 and RC51. It has a truly amazing power plant.
For those who are curious not many options can be added. As you know or have read the seat is made by Sargent (heated or not tall or low seat are the options on the seat) and the exhaust is Akropovic. It has an american made tool kit under the seat (made in Cali) and you can damn near disassemble the bike with the included tool kit. BraKing rotors and Brembo masters on the BST wheels. Each bike is hand made and the craftsmen who assemble them sign their names on the bikes (not on the painted surface).
They are building 3 bikes a week and that is all they really want to do. The reference I made to a VIncent in the first couple pages of this thread resonated with the President and Co-founder of Motus who lead the group rides yesterday and today from Hourglass Cycles in Buford, GA (surprisingly good rider :goofy: ) and he is still very passionate about motorcycling and motorcycle manufacturing.Good group of people at Hourglass Cycles, very knowledgeable sales group and I spoke to several people who have purchased and service their bikes there, the shop gets very high grades. There was a VeeStrom with a side hack there and the service guy who sets up the hacks have set up over 100 of them!
The dealer sold their red MST yesterday after a demo ride and the new owner was there picking up his bike and dropping of the BMW K1600GTL that he was trading in for it. Look for the Motus demo truck or email them at Motus and see if they are going to be in your area soon, go by and take a look at the bikes. You will be impressed.
Have you ridden a 7th gen? I'd be curious on how they compare, considering I paid under 10,000 for mine, with full luggage including the 45L euro top box, and upgraded suspension. I'll add helis and a seat and still be under 10. To me there is no comparison on looks and fit and finish. The 7th gen wins hands down.
23 hours ago, rideredHave you ridden a 7th gen? I'd be curious on how they compare, considering I paid under 10,000 for mine, with full luggage including the 45L euro top box, and upgraded suspension. I'll add helis and a seat and still be under 10. To me there is no comparison on looks and fit and finish. The 7th gen wins hands down.
I have spent some time on the 7th gen.
Honda flew me to the introduction in Santa Barbara and we were able to ride the 2010 standard and DCT versions. I then rented one for 10-11 days in the Alps and Dolomites two up a couple of years ago (a 2012 model I believe) so I only have about 4,000 miles on them but I have some opinions of them.
Now that Honda have sorted the shaft issue I would not hesitate to purchase a VFR1200 and drop an additional $2500 on a proper suspension for it. And the 12 is not so plentiful that you see yourself everywhere either. There is a lot to like about the VFR1200 and once the suspension is sorted just a small quibble of range but then only if you are traveling in the western US.
That being said, refer back to your second sentence...you paid under $10k for yours. Honda asks about $17,500 with luggage. I think you have a well bought bike. But the VFR1200 and Motus MST/R are apples and pickles. The VFR1200 is a very good shaft drive sporty bike that can handle two up duty albeit with limits to range (when 2 up or traveling through less densely populated areas) and with a fit and finish that at the top of the food chain for mass production motorcycles.
The Motus is not a bike to replace the VFR (either 800 or 1200) as a commuter or only bike or split duty tourer and it doesn't pretend to be. The Motus is possibly this centuries Vincent Black Shadow, a hand assembled motorycle of unique character that will never have 50% or more of it's MSRP discounted. They only make three per week and all are hand assembled in Alabama. Vincent over the entire run of Black Shadows only made about 1,700 (iirc). The Motus is speced out with the best of the best in terms of outsourced components such as suspension, brakes, seat, exhaust, bars etc...Motus think there may be enough people who want to purchase something made in the US that doesn't have to apologize for every corner it wobbles through while holding up a half dozen SUVs and minivans.
It is not for everyone but just because we love our various V4 Hondas we shouldn't be the guy parking our Corvette next to a Koenigsegg One saying that we don't see anything unique or objectively better. We should celebrate that someone was just crazy enough to build the Motus and a lucky few are crazy enough to buy them so that maybe in 50-70 years someone will be talking about them. More than likely my progeny will be still be talking about how much fun they had actually riding and taking their VFRs to the track and across the country.
TLDR - celebrate the amazing bikes that are available today from many different manufacturers and enjoy your ride.
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The Fuller Motus Naked
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Thanks, but no thanks. I prefer a good looking bike.
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fancy looking bit of kit,people rave about KTM's but a lot of them are as ugly as a hat full of arse holes in my opinion
The stars on the wheels are a bit much, but I can dig those colors.
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Tail lights done
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I saw one at the dealership in Livermore, and yes, very nice build quality! At my pay grade, I could if I wanted to, but would have to give up quite a few other things. If I was looking for something unique and had more money to burn, then it would be near the top of my list. It has a subtle, understated high-end look to it. Kind of like a McLaren - it doesn't look Japanese, Italian, German, or "American", but it does look good!
I put American in quotes, because being American, I don't see the "American" look to vehicles the way others do, but I do see Japanese, Italian, German, and whatever KTM thinks they are.......
"It has a subtle, understated high-end look to it."
Not how I would describe the bike pictured.
Motus005[image: db8c7bcffb6c6f6211227594597ae871.jpg]
Does that come with a siren and advanced life support?
sounds well tasty
FJ12Ryder, 4/20/2017 at 9:05 AM"It has a subtle, understated high-end look to it."
Not how I would describe the bike pictured.
I was speaking of the stock bike, which like the 7th Gen, does not translate so well in pictures.......but looks awesome in person.
The RWB bike in these pictures has some nice craftsmanship, but the color scheme, and mods were done to someones tastes......but not mine.
again loooks
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One thing I couldn't help noticing is that the frame welder needs some practice. Those are far from the quality of welds I would expect from that bike. Looks like the welder is used to welding dump trucks.
They look strong enough but don't indicate any skill from the welder. Look at a Pit-Bull stand if you want to see perfect welding.
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Industry Award winner at the Quail Show this weekend.
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Nice long ride today up to Alice's and through the delta.
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The Industry Award is presented to a ground-breaking and thought provoking motorcycle created and built by industry professionals to the highest standards. This award is selected by our Judging Committee and can be from any category on the field that they believe best fits this description.
The tank looks completely different in the two views. Congratulations on the award, it looks like a fun bike.
It is different,
you like it a lot,
nothing else matters!!!
Exactly why I bought a Guzzi LeMans at the end of the 80's;
yes them GSXR's were faster, them CBR1000's smoother, but I wanted the Guzzi!
![[image: IM000029.jpg]](http://i113.photobucket.com/albums/n206/Dutchy_748/IM000029.jpg){kind=link}
10 hours ago, SweeperThe tank looks completely different in the two views. Congratulations on the award, it looks like a fun bike.
You mean frame slider ? That tank sticks out alot.
Good lookin bike .
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Dave Moss Suspension expert sorting out the #fullermotus
![[image: 12ab4152cab0d2a283413b088a23a7be.jpg]](http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170511/12ab4152cab0d2a283413b088a23a7be.jpg){kind=link}
Some on board track video would be awesome. Maybe ?
![[image: fc6d55808eed4d153047ddb8364d5089.jpg]](http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170709/fc6d55808eed4d153047ddb8364d5089.jpg){kind=link}
![[image: ce3a1e5354693c2cbe80ebcf31f860ca.png]](http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170722/ce3a1e5354693c2cbe80ebcf31f860ca.png){kind=link}
End of thread · 125 posts recovered Wayback Machine snapshot 18 Jan 2018