This probably isn't the post you were expecting from the thread title. I'm wondering how many of you have sports (or sporty) cars you've whipped around the same twisties as your motorcycle. I have a favorite route about an hour from home, not really technical, but some very nice curves (2nd and 3rd gear) and sweepers. I've ridden this route probably 5-10 times the last few years. Takes me 3-4 hours door-to-door, and the ride totals 150-170 miles depending on the exact route that day. I don't have the turns memorized, but I'm pretty comfortable on this route. Also, it helps the pavement is very good and there isn't much traffic.
This past Sunday afternoon I finally took my 2018 Miata GT on that route and had an absolute blast. I've been wanting to do this since I bought the car a couple years ago, and this was the first time I've taken the car on any decent roads like that, other than a few good corners closer to home. I've never been on a track with the bike or car, and this was my first time getting a car into some decent curves.
So my question is this, are you more comfortable in the same twisties on your bike or in your car, especially when you're pushing it a bit? Much like being on the bike, it took me a little while to get comfortable cornering the car kind of hard, as 1) I'm not that fast, 2) I don't know the car's limits all that well, and 3) I definitely didn't want to crash it! I'll add that my Miata is wearing summer performance tires and the temps were in the low 60s, so I was hesitant to put too much faith in tire grip. While it's hard to say for sure after just one drive like this, I don't know that I'll ever be as comfortable in the twisties in my car as I am on my bike. Maybe it's because I have a much more seat time on good roads on the bike, gained over the last dozen years, but I just feel like I have more control on the smaller and more agile machine.
Anyway, thoughts from the VFRD crowd?
I have a vfr1200 and also had a Miata. Was much faster through the corners with the VFR. It is not that the car couldn't corner, it handled quite well actually. I believe it was the fact that the car would sling you from side to side in the seat where the bike is nice and smooth through the corners. Also, my passenger did not like going fast in the Miata but loves cornering on the bike. That probably didn't help the situation any.
However, during the summer, it was nice when we got back from a hot ride to dump all of the riding gear, put on shorts, flops and a t shirt and head out for a jaunt with the top down.
On normal roads, the bike always until about 110mph, then I'm usually happier in the car. But bike on track at any speed. There was a test done a few years ago, with a sports car & bike, even on a continuous circle test the bike was just a little quicker. But in most performance car V bike race track tests the cars are always significantly quicker in the corners, but lose out on acceleration, so the bike usually wins, by a nose, having slowed the cars in the corners by using its acceleration to get to every next corner first. But the cars are true super cars & 10K for a bike comapred to 150-200K+ for the car, on that basis alone the bike wins.
I take my cage on my twisties runs and the weak point is not so much the speed (but it is. haha ) or tyre grip, for mine it is the brakes..
There is a loop of pure corners that's approx 40 klms and as I came to the end, which the last say 5-10k are down hill, a plume of brake smoke passed me by as I came to a stop.
So for the twisties I'd say brakes, tyres, handling/suspension and then performance are the order for cages.
Ymmv
Cages are fast into a corner due to their wide tires and slow to accelerate out of the corner due to their weight... So when I pass a Porsche or a Corvette and the race is on in the bendy bits I slow them way down going into the corner then squirt out of the corner and leave them dead... he he he... that can really frustrate them...
I suppose it really depends on what bike vs what car.......
Also which rider vs which driver ?
8 hours ago, boOZZIE
I take my cage on my twisties runs and the weak point is not so much the speed (but it is. haha ) or tyre grip, for mine it is the brakes..
This is why so many sports cars now have upgraded brake options. My Miata is stock, of course, but I was conscious of brake fade just in case. But I wasn't driving *that* hard, plus I used some engine braking at times, and even trail braking, like I would on the bike. Plus this route wasn't like NC Route 28 or the Dragon, as there are enough straights between decent curves that the brakes would never overheat.
55 minutes ago, mello dude
I suppose it really depends on what bike vs what car.......
Well, stock Miatas aren't exactly fast., lol. That car's beauty is carrying speed through the corners, not bolting out of them! My 6th gen. VFR blows my car out of the water off the line and out of corners.
47 minutes ago, Philois1984
Also which rider vs which driver ?
I'm not fast on the bike or the car, but like I said in my initial post, I'm more comfortable on the bike. Maybe if I do this type of driving more often I'll get more comfortable doing it. And that's a great goal, except at one point four riders on sportbikes (or sporty bikes) passed me going the other way, and for a moment I was really jealous. I think if the weather is good enough for a fast drive in the twisties, I'd rather be on the bike.
Thanks for the comments, everyone!
1 hour ago, Philois1984
Also which rider vs which driver ?
I learned that the hard way at a track session on my 6th gen. I thought I was doing really well, peg feeler occasionally touching in the tightest corners, getting a bit full of myself, thinking I must be some kind of hot stuff running the bike near its limit - that is until one of the instructors on another 6th gen went around me and left me behind. WTF??? :blink: I never met him, but he put a real whooping on me. I felt about 6 inches tall after that - very humbling. It was what really hammered home to me that it's not the bike, but rider skill that's important. Chuck Yeager once said "The airplane knows when it's in competent hands." The same is true for bikes.
I took my wife's Prius fully occupied seats up The Snake in Malibu. The family loved it and when we got to the Ranch up top we were headed to I had used up all the battery power driving out of the turns as hard as I could.
Ok. I realize it's a clown car and not a sport car but we all got a good chuckle out of it.
56 years old now. Almost due for a sportscar.
5 minutes ago, VFR Capt.Bob
56 years old now. Almost due for an RC51
Fixed that for you :tongue:
20 hours ago, VFR Capt.Bob
56 years old now. Almost due for a sportscar.
I turned 50 last summer, just 4 weeks before I bought that new Miata. But while some people would see it as a midlife crisis car, the story is deeper than that.
I'd never really wanted a convertible or a roadster, so while I thought the Miata was kind of cool, it was never on my shopping list. Plus, from 1997 to 2017 or so, I had dependent children and so I needed a car with a backseat. Once the kids had their own car, however, that freed me up to get pretty much anything I wanted. When the ND Miata came out I thought they looked very sharp. And since I didn't need a backseat anymore, I checked one out. Still too small, I thought, but I kept thinking about it even after I bought another small sedan a few years ago.
Fast forward to summer 2018, and my wife's aunt came very close to dying from sepsis, which resulted from an infection caused by a kidney stone. Seriously, she was *this* close to dying. Thankfully, she is fully recovered! Anyway, I started thinking, "Ya know, I don't want to be 60-70 years old or on my deathbed wishing I'd bought that sweet little sports car when I could have, and when I was still young enough to enjoy it - and limber enough to get in and out of it!" Got a killer deal on the car and I absolutely love it. Out of the dozen or so cars I've owned and/or daily driven, this is hands-down my very favorite. Zero regrets.
So my advice is don't wait too long. I've been thinking the same thing lately about a couple Ducatis for sale locally... 😉
Nice story TimC. I think the Miata in Australia is the Mazda MX5 am I right? It's a beautiful looking little sports car. In 2018 I came very close to buying one in the Machine Grey colour, garage space was my problem. Glad you're loving the Miata. Enjoy.
Cheers.
I used to do the sports car thing quite awhile back and had a garage with both - nice sports car(s) and a bike(s).
But I began to notice that on the fantastically sunny perfect days, that I would take a bike out a and the sports car would sit.
Well day umm. I eventually discovered that while I like the cars, I am a true bike guy to the core. And then I decided to sell the car(s)
and buy more bikes!
At the pinnacle - F1 vs MotoGP, F1 wins and it's not even close. That being said, IMO, it takes more skill to ride a bike fast than drive a car fast...
4 hours ago, TimC
I turned 50 last summer, just 4 weeks before I bought that new Miata. But while some people would see it as a midlife crisis car, the story is deeper than that.
I'd never really wanted a convertible or a roadster, so while I thought the Miata was kind of cool, it was never on my shopping list. Plus, from 1997 to 2017 or so, I had dependent children and so I needed a car with a backseat. Once the kids had their own car, however, that freed me up to get pretty much anything I wanted. When the ND Miata came out I thought they looked very sharp. And since I didn't need a backseat anymore, I checked one out. Still too small, I thought, but I kept thinking about it even after I bought another small sedan a few years ago.
Fast forward to summer 2018, and my wife's aunt came very close to dying from sepsis, which resulted from a common urinary tract infection. Seriously, she was *this* close to dying. Thankfully, she is fully recovered! Anyway, I started thinking, "Ya know, I don't want to be 60-70 years old or on my deathbed wishing I'd bought that sweet little sports car when I could have, and when I was still young enough to enjoy it - and limber enough to get in and out of it!" Got a killer deal on the car and I absolutely love it. Out of the dozen or so cars I've owned and/or daily driven, this is hands-down my very favorite. Zero regrets.
So my advice is don't wait too long. I've been thinking the same thing lately about a couple Ducatis for sale locally... 😉
Hi Tim, my wife always wanted an MX5 and in 2001 I was extremely generous and bought her one with her very own money. That’s just the sort of guy I am. We still have it and she still loves it. What surprised me when we bought it was just how much I enjoyed driving it. The balance and steering are perfect. I would like about double the power but it is such a fun car to drive. She has 90,000km on the clock now and still looks and runs great. The soft top roof is still in great condition, no leaks. I just armour all it every month. I’m not very graceful getting in and out though.
Wow, looks sensational, what a generous fella, of course using her cash! Bloody hell if only I could talk my lady into the same deal :blink:
6 hours ago, Samuelx
At the pinnacle - F1 vs MotoGP, F1 wins and it's not even close. That being said, IMO, it takes more skill to ride a bike fast than drive a car fast...
At Silverstone the F1 lap record is 1 m 27.39 sec while the MotoGP lap record is 1m 59.993 sec. You can’t beat downforce through corners.[image: 25EFAD04-3613-451B-8A4E-2C0474E701DA.thumb.png.a0973f2954ca9f4281bf753e1850a36e.png][image: 489F375B-ECD4-46B7-8641-EAC29507499D.thumb.png.dc5f9cc13a3ba4aace4ce2a8af56678f.png]
Grum -- Yes, the car is technically known as the MX-5 everywhere, but here in the US if you say MX-5 to non-car people they'll just look at you funny. Most people here know it as the Miata.
Philois -- Beautiful color on that car, and a great wheel combination (which looks like stock). Mine is the Machine Gray Metallic. Not as terrific looking as Mazda's Soul Red, but classy looking IMHO. The pic below was taken just after a recent wash.
The weather for this weekend looks very good for Saturday. Thinking about an all day ride on the VFR. It's been a stressful week, and I could really use some seat time.
[image: MX5 pic.jpg]
Great choice Tim, my Accord is basically the same color! 🙂
I'm stuck in the 80's so cars were not fast, but lots of fun. My motorcycles will always be faster, but fun is equal among them. Lots of times a good handling slower car can be a blast, you learn to carry momentum. I live an hour from Shady Valley and lots of good roads, so they all get to have fun.
A reasonably modern sports car will demolish even the fastest bikes on twisty public roads.
I put this theory to the test constantly in the hills above Napa...R1s, 1199s etc are dispatched with absolute ease, especially with the car's electronic nannies turned on. Same went for the MR2 Spyder I used to drive - the safety net is just so much bigger in a car, so you're more willing to push. Bikes only race ahead on the straights.
It's about 60 miles for the "loop," and I'd guess I'm 10 minutes slower on a bike (ease of passing aside). It's a route I've ridden and driven hundreds of times and have every corner memorized.
5 hours ago, SamW
I'm stuck in the 80's so cars were not fast, but lots of fun. My motorcycles will always be faster, but fun is equal among them. Lots of times a good handling slower car can be a blast, you learn to carry momentum. I live an hour from Shady Valley and lots of good roads, so they all get to have fun.
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I can't remember the last time I saw a 944. Great cars.
19 hours ago, mello dude
I used to do the sports car thing quite awhile back and had a garage with both - nice sports car(s) and a bike(s).
But I began to notice that on the fantastically sunny perfect days, that I would take a bike out a and the sports car would sit.
Well day umm. I eventually discovered that while I like the cars, I am a true bike guy to the core. And then I decided to sell the car(s)
and buy more bikes!
If I were going to have a sports car, it would be an S2000. Any car that can turn 8,000+ rpm and has a manual gear box has got to be a blast to drive.
I'm stuck in the 80's cars too....
5 hours ago, BrianF
A reasonably modern sports car will demolish even the fastest bikes on twisty public roads.
I put this theory to the test constantly in the hills above Napa...R1s, 1199s etc are dispatched with absolute ease, especially with the car's electronic nannies turned on. Same went for the MR2 Spyder I used to drive - the safety net is just so much bigger in a car, so you're more willing to push. Bikes only race ahead on the straights.
It's about 60 miles for the "loop," and I'd guess I'm 10 minutes slower on a bike (ease of passing aside). It's a route I've ridden and driven hundreds of times and have every corner memorized.
[image: IMG_6276.JPG]
I think I have been hearing about this car for a year or two, finally a photo!
27 minutes ago, RC1237V
I'm stuck in the 80's cars too....
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...and Jim shows his hand!
+1 on the MX-5. Love mine!
3 hours ago, RC1237V
I'm stuck in the 80's cars too....
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Every time I see one of these I'm reminded of the line from the Tom Cruise movie Risky Business, "Who's the U-Boat commander?"
18 hours ago, BrianF
It's about 60 miles for the "loop," and I'd guess I'm 10 minutes slower on a bike (ease of passing aside). It's a route I've ridden and driven hundreds of times and have every corner memorized.
Beautiful 4C, Brian!! One of my favorite modern sports cars, not that I'll ever have one, but they are sweet.
Nice Porsches and MX-5, folks!! The MX-5 looks like it's been lowered a bit, and looks great. I've considered coilovers for mine and lowering it maybe 1/2" or so. But I probably won't. I am still considering swapping the stock exhaust for a Borla axle-back. I guess that's if I keep it much longer. We don't tend to keep our cars more than 2-3 years. Not because we don't like them, but because we're upgrading every few years.
Also, on the Miata, I remember during one of my motorcycle trips to the Dragon several years ago, there must have been a "Miata weekend" organized by an owners club, because a ton of them went through the route a couple times. Would love to do that in mine someday (again, if I have it long enough). Until then, the twisty bits in Ohio will have to do.
Agree with BrianF.
We used to have a Miata and, IMO, they are one of the most under-estimated twisty cars out there. They will never win a drag race but when you have a 2400 pound car on pretty sticky tires, low center of gravity with a decent driver, it will do pretty well in Western NC. What I hated about it was the way other drivers tried bullying me around when I was driving it. Some warped people think they are "girls cars" and I found tailgating and aggressive driving when I was in mine was, for some unknown reason, very common. I could drive it away from or around anyone in traffic and found myself doing it when I really didn't want to have to drive that way. Anyway, getting rid of it was one of the bigger mistakes I've made. They are very fun to drive.
One thing I would do when I had "fasty" cars was to take them out to very large, clean, no light pole, parking lots and find out the "lose grip point". It's good to know for any car you own.
On the bike vs. car thing, it's always the rider or driver more than the vehicle.
20 hours ago, GreginDenver
Every time I see one of these I'm reminded of the line from the Tom Cruise movie Risky Business, "Who's the U-Boat commander?"
For me the other memorable line from that movie (not as good as the above tho) is when he's at the wheel of the 928, looks in the mirror at the Cadillac land-barge, then over at the girl and says "I think I can take him!". Hmmm . . . let's see, Porsche 928 vs 4 ton Cadillac with sofa cushion suspension . . . ya think??? :comp13:
The '13 MX5 is my remedy for a deer collision. It took some drastic convincing for me to swap my VFR800, CB700SC, and DRZ400 for this Miata. At 60 mph the deer came over the handlebars of my DRZ400. On my first multi day group ride after a year of recovery I came within inches of striking another deer at 75 mph riding my VFR in Oregon. This was on the same road that a fellow rider was killed by deer the week after my near fatal deer collision. After 42 years and over 200,000 miles of riding I decided I could not justify the anguish I was causing my dear wife by continuing. I reasoned that I had been everywhere and done everything on a bike, it was time to move on. I still have my old DT175 Yamaha Enduro which I have ridden a few time off pavement.
So I have moved on to the MX5, photography, mountain biking, and chasing around 5 new grandchildren. In early March I thoroughly enjoyed some twisty mountain roads in NW Oregon on a spirited Miata group drive. I would like to get out and do that more often. I have to drive out of the Seattle area for the best empty roads. I know where they all are from years of motorcycling. The MX5 handled remarkably well and stayed very much in control as I pushed it. It was quite close to the thrill of the VFR, I have to drive fast enough to almost scare my self as I did riding. I do wonder what it would be like to chase some of my riding buddies on our favorite roads.
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And to think that at one time deer were rare in North America until they rebounded for various reasons. At least in The South it happened..
There are two advantages I see in a sports car over a motorcycle in the twisties. Deer collision is the obvious one, the other is sand or debris in a corner. The only sports car I've owned was a 1980 Triumph TR8 (a TR7 with a 3.5L aluminum block V8). Fun to drive and motor with the top down but a pain in the rear to own and maintain - it spent as much time getting r/r as it did on the road. I was very well aquainted with the Prince Of Darkness.
But it was nowhere near as fun or as exciting a my fifth gens are.
(I do love to drive. And my eighth gen 2008 Honda Civic 5 speed is adequate for entertaining driving. But it is only transportation. Being a life-long devotee of "Small Is Beautiful" philosophy, a Mazda MX5 would be a top contending candidate for a sports car if I could afford one and live without the passenger and luggage space.)
1 hour ago, Bent
And to think that at one time deer were rare in North America until they rebounded for various reasons. At least in The South it happened..
Likely because humans, whether with guns or vehicles, are their only main predator. What really pisses me off is when their only natural predator, wolves, is hunted.
HooRay for wolves - boo for deer.
Not much comfort but according to this map it could be worst for us out west...
The funnest car I have ever owned was the first year Honda CRX. Red, of course. A true go-cart for adults (and for me also). Stock photo below but that is exactly what mine looked like. Check these specs:
1488cc inline four
1764 lbs (!!)
5 speed
2 seater
86 inch wheelbase
With such light weight, extremely low to the ground, and normal rubber it could generate incredible g-force! Loved that car.
Two years later I was offered a position which came with a company car, so we sold it. Aaaargh. But at least I did buy a VFR that same year...
I loved my CRX most fun I ever had on 4 wheels. Should have never sold it. A friends wife took it off my hands after the test ride there was wet spot on the driver's seat, I think she liked it. LOL
We used to have a CRX, think it was slightly newer than the one in the pic above. The most fun ever on 4 wheels. Ex-wife broke her ankle and I had to drive to the hospital, about 45 miles away, to collect her. Choice was boring family car or CRX, motorway or x-country. Needless to say I chose the CRX and x-country and had a hoot of a time.
19 hours ago, MaxSwell
There are two advantages I see in a sports car over a motorcycle in the twisties. Deer collision is the obvious one, the other is sand or debris in a corner. The only sports car I've owned was a 1980 Triumph TR8 (a TR7 with a 3.5L aluminum block V8). Fun to drive and motor with the top down but a pain in the rear to own and maintain - it spent as much time getting r/r as it did on the road. I was very well aquainted with the Prince Of Darkness.
But it was nowhere near as fun or as exciting a my fifth gens are.
(I do love to drive. And my eighth gen 2008 Honda Civic 5 speed is adequate for entertaining driving. But it is only transportation. Being a life-long devotee of "Small Is Beautiful" philosophy, a Mazda MX5 would be a top contending candidate for a sports car if I could afford one and live without the passenger and luggage space.)
Likely because humans, whether with guns or vehicles, are their only main predator. What really pisses me off is when their only natural predator, wolves, is hunted.
HooRay for wolves - boo for deer.
I don't know why "deer hunting" is called hunting, they're so common where I live. I call it deer shooting. They wonder around my backyard like they own the place but woe be to me if I shoot one. They've become pests AFAIC. A lot of people agree with that. Our govt. always knows what's best when it comes to "wildlife conservation" though. Don't know that I agree with the map either. It's from State Farm. An insurance company with nothing but increasing rates as their main concern. Ask me how I know.
Did some deer hunting on my bike last year, going abut 70, thanks to the large soft plastic sides of the VFR1200, we both walked away...
Bent, 5/17/2020 at 10:24 AM
I don't know why "deer hunting" is called hunting, they're so common where I live. I call it deer shooting. They wonder around my backyard like they own the place but woe be to me if I shoot one. They've become pests AFAIC. A lot of people agree with that. Our govt. always knows what's best when it comes to "wildlife conservation" though. Don't know that I agree with the map either. It's from State Farm. An insurance company with nothing but increasing rates as their main concern. Ask me how I know.
Deer population is bad enough in Ohio that I'm reluctant to ride 2-lane rural highways at dusk and night anymore. I used to be more willing, but as I've grown a bit older I've become more cautious. I'm fine on the freeways, but on the 2-lanes I'm hyper-vigilant.
Oddly enough, my closest encounter with wildlife on the bike was with a wild turkey on a rural 2-lane road. It was standing in my lane, and I saw it in plenty of time. I slowed, it started moving to the left, and I steered right and started to accelerate a bit. Then it changed direction and moved to the right! I barely missed it, and I think I might have grazed it with my left leg. Stupid bird!!
TimC, 5/19/2020 at 7:55 AM
Deer population is bad enough in Ohio that I'm reluctant to ride 2-lane rural highways at dusk and night anymore. I used to be more willing, but as I've grown a bit older I've become more cautious. I'm fine on the freeways, but on the 2-lanes I'm hyper-vigilant.
Oddly enough, my closest encounter with wildlife on the bike was with a wild turkey on a rural 2-lane road. It was standing in my lane, and I saw it in plenty of time. I slowed, it started moving to the left, and I steered right and started to accelerate a bit. Then it changed direction and moved to the right! I barely missed it, and I think I might have grazed it with my left leg. Stupid bird!!
It's a good thing the Stupid Bird stayed on the ground. While driving my car in northern MN one flew over the hood of the car at windshield height. That would have put it right about chest height on a mc. It does not take much imagination to see that taking the rider right off of the machine. Better be ATGATT when that happens. And they are all over the place, in large herds, here in the greater Minneapolis/St. Paul urban area. Luckley, never seen them while moving on an mc. (Knock Wood.)
TimC, 5/15/2020 at 10:50 AM
Nice Porsches and MX-5, folks!! The MX-5 looks like it's been lowered a bit, and looks great. I've considered coilovers for mine and lowering it maybe 1/2" or so. But I probably won't. I am still considering swapping the stock exhaust for a Borla axle-back. I guess that's if I keep it much longer. We don't tend to keep our cars more than 2-3 years. Not because we don't like them, but because we're upgrading every few years.
Also, on the Miata, I remember during one of my motorcycle trips to the Dragon several years ago, there must have been a "Miata weekend" organized by an owners club, because a ton of them went through the route a couple times. Would love to do that in mine someday (again, if I have it long enough). Until then, the twisty bits in Ohio will have to do.
That shot was taken on the Dragon a couple of years ago and no, it hasn't been lowered. Just fully loaded and cornering hard. The back end skipped out on me during that run. It's got progressive springs and roll bars and they can spin without much notice once they loose grip with that set-up. It was a chilly day so the tires would have less than optimal grip as well.
Cars........
What can I say.... :goofy:
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