Suspension upgrade or rebuild in EU

Hello guys from Ireland ! I have been considering upgrading my suspension and even the forks. The roads here are bumpy and the ride on country roads is not comfortable, either solo or two up!

The bike is all stock. Daugherty motor sports is the recommended go too guy and I have spoken to him. Very helpful!

The question for me is if anyone has any experience with a rebuild or upgrade that can be done in Europe?

The pricing is currently out of my budget plus I’m not sure how upgrading will effect insurance policy (again, any experience do let me know!)

Also shipping from USA to eu... 21%ish on top i believe.. ouch! (I could be wrong.. feel free to correct me!)

I am planning on keeping this bike for the foreseeable future and intend on riding it. Daily commutes (after restrictions), touring and two up riding.

Thankyou

Not sure how many miles you have on the bike and if it warrant rebuild,  but I would start with changing fork oil with proper viscosity one and making sure gap is correct. Next step would be suspension adjustment to your specific weight. Somebody will be here soon with rear shock service recommendations.... don’t know how that specific model get serviced.

Brooks Barn have rebuilt a shock for my CBR @£160

Given the age I’d go for a Hagon or YSS unit @£300

45 minutes ago, Magneto

how many miles you have on the bike

Good point! I have 24.5k miles currently.

46 minutes ago, Magneto

start with changing fork oil with proper viscosity one and making sure gap is correct

Good idea. I have never done this before. Will check the manual. Exactly what gap am i checking?

47 minutes ago, Magneto

suspension adjustment to your specific weight

Also am currently looking into this. From what i understand the springs in the stock are for a relatively light rider. I’m not exactly heavy but 180ish in the buff.

12 minutes ago, Thumbs

Brooks Barn have rebuilt a shock for my CBR @£160

Given the age I’d go for a Hagon or YSS unit @£300

Appreciate the response Thumbs. Unfortunately due to brexit I would be warranted to pay 21% for postage both ways for a rebuild. I will check those units out you’ve mentioned!

+1 ON THE YSS REAR SHOCK.

I have one and its excellent quality and fit.

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I have bought and installed 3 YSS shocks now, and I am very happy with them.   While I'm sure other "Premium" shocks will ultimately perform better, I find them to be an amazing value.  The quality, performance, fitment and supplied spring rates seem to be very good.  The main ebay store for them will fit whatever spring rate you want for an additional charge.  The last one I bought for a Hawk GT arrived in a timely manner too.

On a slightly related note:

Although they have a pretty generous separate ride height adjustment, if you do some research with the part numbers, you can sometimes find shocks with the same configuration and spring, but are a little longer (or shorter) than listed in the Application Guide for a model.  Very helpful when I was fitting for the VF1000F and R.  I went longer of course, especially for the "F", as the stock length is a bit shorter than the "R".

9 minutes ago, Captain 80s

installed 3 YSS shocks now, and I am very happy with them.

Thats awesome! How do you find it works when riding two up?

Thats an awesome collection you have!

4 minutes ago, Walker1

Thats awesome! How do you find it works when riding two up?

Thats an awesome collection you have!

Sorry, I can't say, I don't two up on those bikes.  I will likely be fitting one to my 98 ST1100 at some point, but it has pretty low miles and the shock isn't screaming at me to be replaced.

And thank you!  Obligatory picture of a YSS fitted machine:

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Fitted an YSS on my VF500F2 years ago. So happy with it I bought one for my (second) VFR750f as well last year

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I went with YSS on my VF500F after not being able to find Hagon in U.S. Works much better than factory unit it replaced. If doing 2-up, pick stiffer spring that you can use with no pre-load 1-up. Then add preload + damping for 2-up.

Similar upgrade on my Ninja 250 for 2-up. Needed doubling of spring-rate for street 2-up. On Ninja 250 race-bike, I use +50% spring-rate over stock.

Whilst the mileage may not have worn the suspension much, the years will have so as a minimum you need to replace the fork oil, however VFRs come as standard with very neutral suspension and for many they definitely benefit from some money spent on them.

There are plenty of suspension shops in the UK that you could phone for advice; I use MCT Suspension in Stowmarket (01449 777161). They've replaced the front & rear on my 1200 and serviced and tuned the front & rear on my previous Crossrunner. Transformational!

The best value you can spend your money on a VFR IMO.

1 hour ago, Skids

...

There are plenty of suspension shops in the UK...

I have hear that UK lost 68% of business due to exiting from common market. I think OP is trying to tell us that UK shops are price prohibitive due to current duties. What a pity 🙁

OP, 24k that is not that many miles. If that was me, before spending serious money, I would do basic service and proper bespoke weight adjustment. Pay particular attention to fork fluid viscosity - btw what you guys use/ recommend for comfort ride? - and correct amount of fluid added to each fork (air gap - space b/w fluid surface and top of the fork - to small air volume results in harsh ride). Service would include fork and dust seal replacement. It is not a dIfficult job but will require some shop space and wrenching skills. 

Rear shocks are more forgiving than front ones, see how the ride is after basic adjustment are made. 

Are there shocks available on used market from newer bikes that are commonly swapped for the fifth gen?

Some info on swaps here...

31 minutes ago, Magneto

trying to tell us that UK shops are price prohibitive due to current duties.

Exactly!

32 minutes ago, Magneto

basic service and proper bespoke weight adjustment

Ok.. I imagine i should give a go at the basic service before adjusting the weight. Perhaps a job for the mechanics so I can observe how its done.. at least the first time around!

Whatever makes you comfortable. Plenty resources to watch on YouTube....

1 hour ago, Magneto

there shocks available on used market from newer bikes that are commonly swapped for the fifth gen?

This thread didn’t load the first time around Magneto, thanks! I am going to look at the nr4 shock and see what those guys at Maxton say. I know its UK but I believe if items are made in the UK they may not be subject to some form of tax  (i could be wrong)

16 hours ago, Magneto

I have hear that UK lost 68% of business due to exiting from common market. I think OP is trying to tell us that UK shops are price prohibitive due to current duties. What a pity 🙁

Not heard that, but things are still very quiet over here so who knows when things get back to some sort of normal which is why I didn't suggest he buy from a UK shop (as that would be exporting to the EU and therefore more expensive) but call them to ask for advice.

18 hours ago, Magneto

Service would include fork and dust seal replacement.

Would this be what I’m looking for?- https://www.wemoto.ie/bikes/honda/vfr_800_fi-1/01/picture/fork_repair_kit_-_slinky_glide

Would this be unnecessary - https://www.ebay.co.uk/c/1574495947

thanks. I might see about an aftermarket spring perhaps.

1 hour ago, Walker1

Would this be what I’m looking for?- https://www.wemoto.ie/bikes/honda/vfr_800_fi-1/01/picture/fork_repair_kit_-_slinky_glide

Would this be unnecessary - https://www.ebay.co.uk/c/1574495947

thanks. I might see about an aftermarket spring perhaps.

At 24k I would not expect need to replace bushings, particularly with aftermarket ones. Once you disassemble the forks bushings are to be inspected and replaced when needed. Spring clips are usually OK although I had some that were completely corroded and unusable. 
What you need for sure are oil seals and dust seals. Ones from dealer can be pricy, I usually get the OEM from fork manufacturers to save bit of money for exact same goods. I did not have good results with aftermarket seals. Even Japanese aftermarket suppliers cut corners, got simplified seals once with lesser lip count than OEM.
similarly with manual I rather have OEM shop manual, easy to locate these days on PDFs.

Fork oil viscosity selection is crucial for what you want bike to do, people often go for lesser viscosity than specified by OEM for more comfortable ride. See what people recommend here for you bike....

Manuals can be bit dry. Search ytube and see few videos to know what the job involves.

Quick one as example here, many others available. DIY with tricks on special tools are ones you want. Pro seal drivers are pricey

My 2000 VFR ex England ??? miles rear shock was non-existent in terms of dampening - i.e. zero. Like riding a pogo stick.  I went the way of a CBR929 shock modified to suit, but haven't ridden it yet to make an opinion.

OK all you knowledgable forum peoples - which is it...457ml fork oil, or 130mm space above oil level when compressed?  The manual says both - but....

Cleaned out forks, rebuilt, topped up initially with 450ml oil, pumped away for a while till no air bubbles from tube or dampener rod - and I have approximately 35ml above oil level - WTF? I was expecting to add 5-10ml oil to make the right level.  What gives? Something is wrong - oil volume, oil level or there's a damn big air bubble down there that won't move.

8 hours ago, Magneto

At 24k I would not expect need to replace bushings, particularly with aftermarket ones. Once you disassemble the forks bushings are to be inspected and replaced when needed. Spring clips are usually OK although I had some that were completely corroded and unusable. 
What you need for sure are oil seals and dust seals. Ones from dealer can be pricy, I usually get the OEM from fork manufacturers to save bit of money for exact same goods. I did not have good results with aftermarket seals. Even Japanese aftermarket suppliers cut corners, got simplified seals once with lesser lip count than OEM.
similarly with manual I rather have OEM shop manual, easy to locate these days on PDFs.

Fork oil viscosity selection is crucial for what you want bike to do, people often go for lesser viscosity than specified by OEM for more comfortable ride. See what people recommend here for you bike....

Manuals can be bit dry. Search ytube and see few videos to know what the job involves.

Quick one as example here, many others available. DIY with tricks on special tools are ones you want. Pro seal drivers are pricey

Whew! Can I employ this guy to work on my bike?

Hmm...on second thoughts, no. No. and NO.

Yer funny Kiwi. Mericans get job done but it can be hard on gentile eyes... I do use pvc seal driver myself but much shorter. It works...

How do you like Kevin?

2 hours ago, Kiwiwannafly

My 2000 VFR ex England ??? miles rear shock was non-existent in terms of dampening - i.e. zero. Like riding a pogo stick.  I went the way of a CBR929 shock modified to suit, but haven't ridden it yet to make an opinion.

OK all you knowledgable forum peoples - which is it...457ml fork oil, or 130mm space above oil level when compressed?  The manual says both - but....

Cleaned out forks, rebuilt, topped up initially with 450ml oil, pumped away for a while till no air bubbles from tube or dampener rod - and I have approximately 35ml above oil level - WTF? I was expecting to add 5-10ml oil to make the right level.  What gives? Something is wrong - oil volume, oil level or there's a damn big air bubble down there that won't move.

Mystery solved: Don't trust a kitchen volume measure.  My rough 450ml of oil was well off. All happy on 130mm down from top of tube.

For those about to embark on this task: the final adjustment of fork oil level requires smaller than anticipated adds or subtracts. 2-5ml of oil = about 2-5mm height difference.  Don't quote me on this ratio - its an about figure.

1 hour ago, Magneto

Yer funny Kiwi. Mericans get job done but it can be hard on gentile eyes... I do use pvc seal driver myself but much shorter. It works...

How do you like Kevin?

Technically much better instructional video...

42 minutes ago, Kiwiwannafly

Mystery solved: Don't trust a kitchen volume measure. ...

On importance of doing what one is preaching. Go pvc tubes...😋

Here is my hack for setting air gap:

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Syringe and shrink tube cut to air gap dimension 

18 hours ago, Magneto

get the OEM from fork manufacturers to save bit of money for exact same goods

Ok. My question is then.. how do i find the OEM fork manufacturer!

Based on quick search I am thinking those are Showa forks, have some of the owners here confirm it though. I am lucky to have Kayabas (KYB) forks on all my Japanese bikes.

SHOWA

7 hours ago, Magneto

Based on quick search I am thinking those are Showa forks, have some of the owners here confirm it though. I am lucky to have Kayabas (KYB) forks on all my Japanese bikes.

6 minutes ago, Dutchy

SHOWA

Thanks guys.

Ok, the most complicated part of this job seems to be sourcing all of the parts.

The forks may need a servicing and they may also need fresh springs to suit my weight. From what I understand is the stock springs are suited to a 155lb rider. I’m around 180 without gear.

I’ve spoken to a specialist here in Ireland and have done some calculations in regards to the title of this thread.

Firstly, if I were to go with DMR in America and have it shipped it would cost 800 euro for the shock and 600 for the forks which would still need servicing (new seals, oil etc) totalling 1400 euros plus service (not sure of the cost)

The specialists recommended a wilbers (640 i believe) rear shock for 580 euros and wilbers progressive springs for the front for 160 euros. Totalling 740 euros plus service (not sure of the cost) which i may be able to get them to do if I also get them to fit the shocks.

What I was thinking is; ordering DMR rear shock =800 euros and wilbers progressive springs for the front =160 euros plus the price of service and fitting =960+??

What are you’re thoughts and opinions on this.

Would the difference between wilbers rear shock and DMR rear shock be worth the 240 euros extra?

Alright 👍 from what I can tell oem seals directly from Honda are cheapest at 17 bucks per set, per side at Partzilla. That is cheap. 

Assuming you can do the work yourself I would do front forks - oil and seals, take it for a spin to see how it ride and go from there...

15 hours ago, Magneto

Alright 👍 from what I can tell oem seals directly from Honda are cheapest at 17 bucks per set, per side at Partzilla. That is cheap. 

Assuming you can do the work yourself I would do front forks - oil and seals, take it for a spin to see how it ride and go from there...

Yes sir. Appreciate your patience. I’ve found the genuine seals €30 a set.. can find 10w fork oil €10 here handy so may give it a go sure! All I need now is pvc piping and a syringe haha.

What pvc piping did you use.. have a picture of that?

5 hours ago, Walker1

Yes sir. Appreciate your patience. I’ve found the genuine seals €30 a set.. can find 10w fork oil €10 here handy so may give it a go sure! All I need now is pvc piping and a syringe haha.

What pvc piping did you use.. have a picture of that?

We have to stop for a moment where in privacy of your heart you answer a question what you want the bike to do - naughty  or nice. If you want nice, more comfortable  ride over bad roads I would go with light oil, not medium you have listed. 

Mind it is not permanent change, you can go back to heavier oils without issues. There are plenty of threads that can be searched, here or on another board,  discussing fork oil viscosity to provide more information.

PVC driver is easily made, I usually grab whatever Ieftover piece in the garage. Once splitter, pipe half can be formed to exact fork tube diameter by heating it up and pressing around fork tube. 

I have started separate album dedicated to maintenance and repairs, I need to load more pics to it. 

Walker1, 3/12/2021 at 5:46 AM

Yes sir. Appreciate your patience. I’ve found the genuine seals €30 a set.. can find 10w fork oil €10 here handy so may give it a go sure! All I need now is pvc piping and a syringe haha.

What pvc piping did you use.. have a picture of that?

I wasn’t able to upload photos to my Maintenance album, something doesn’t work right

See this guy below, he has OK idea. I do not use clamp myself or drifts/ hammer to seat a seal. Firm grasp of gloved hand and few bumps with fork tube and pvc working like slide hammer gets job done. 

https://blog.touratech-usa.com/2020/04/16/make-your-own-fork-seal-driver/

Walker1, 3/11/2021 at 6:25 PM

Thanks guys.

Ok, the most complicated part of this job seems to be sourcing all of the parts.

The forks may need a servicing and they may also need fresh springs to suit my weight. From what I understand is the stock springs are suited to a 155lb rider. I’m around 180 without gear.

I’ve spoken to a specialist here in Ireland and have done some calculations in regards to the title of this thread.

Firstly, if I were to go with DMR in America and have it shipped it would cost 800 euro for the shock and 600 for the forks which would still need servicing (new seals, oil etc) totalling 1400 euros plus service (not sure of the cost)

The specialists recommended a wilbers (640 i believe) rear shock for 580 euros and wilbers progressive springs for the front for 160 euros. Totalling 740 euros plus service (not sure of the cost) which i may be able to get them to do if I also get them to fit the shocks.

What I was thinking is; ordering DMR rear shock =800 euros and wilbers progressive springs for the front =160 euros plus the price of service and fitting =960+??

What are you’re thoughts and opinions on this.

Would the difference between wilbers rear shock and DMR rear shock be worth the 240 euros extra?

Fellow Irishman here (well, Corkonian).

Have you taken a look at YSS shocks and springs? They get good reviews and aren't bad, price-wise. They're rebuildable too.

On my VFR 750, I replaced the factory forks springs with springs from Progressive Suspension USA (I can't find the ebay store I got them from, it was about 6 years ago or so). YSS and Hyperpro also do progressive springs and are easy to find. Anyway, I replaced the oil (which was like water) with Motul 10w fork oil (different brands have different viscosities, Motul's 10w is different from, say, Castrol's...it's a weird thing with fork oil.) That change transformed the front end of the bike, it doesn't dive uncontrollably, braking is better, it steers and feels nicer. Note that you might need to make up a new fork spacer if the new springs are shorter or longer than the originals. Mine were longer than standard so I'd to dump the steel spacers which were in there originally and just cut some PVC pipe to act as new, shorter, spacers. 

I had the original Showa rear shock rebuilt by MCT in the UK for about €220 back in 2015. They did a fine job, although I don't think the shock was that bad in the first place. I don't know if there would be import duties on used parts which are being refurbed - check that out. 

As for PVC pipe, just go to a DIY place and look for white PVC pipe like you'd use to connect up a sink/basin - cut that in half, use a couple of hose clamps to keep them together around the upper fork tube and then use those as a slide hammer to pop the new fork seal into place (use the old seal as a cushion so the PVC isn't hitting the new seal directly). I'm not a huge fan of this guy's videos but this explains the process pretty well with home tools, nothing fancy: 

This one is also good:

Walker1, 3/11/2021 at 11:23 PM

Ok. My question is then.. how do i find the OEM fork manufacturer!

You've probably already found it.  If you take the front mudguard off you may find a manufacturer's sticker (at least from Showa) on the inside of the fork leg, close to where the caliper mounts.

For quality video instruction on all aspects of motorcycle repair and maintenance I would recommend the Ichiban Moto series of videos.  They are bad ass...

Looks like you're well taken care of with all the advice above! 

Check the age and condition of your tires.

Certainly consider the bushing replacement as 30K is a good time to replace, and it's easy while they (the forks) are apart. 

As above, google search the fork oil viscosity comparison chart, as many oils are all over the map for 5 weight, 7 weight, 10 weight etc... they have an index for 40°C and 100°C

A good suspension shop can re-valve your forks and/or shock for you at a decent price, or you can buy the aftermarket shocks mentioned above. But first, have someone look at your bike and check it over, as most folks think the 750's and 800's are way too soft in stock form. Old tires, old oil, etc can make a soft suspension feel harsh (bottoming, too quick rebound, etc. )

Make sure you adjust the preload to get the proper sag, so you are using everything the suspension has to offer - both front and rear, and 1-up + 2-up.

Last step, ride that thing and enjoy it!

Magneto, 3/11/2021 at 11:14 AM

Based on quick search I am thinking those are Showa forks, have some of the owners here confirm it though. I am lucky to have Kayabas (KYB) forks on all my Japanese bikes.

All Honda sport/touring bike forks I know of prior to the VFR1200 (so, from ca. 1990-2010) used Showa suspension, both ends.  I think the VFR1200 went to Kayaba; not sure what happened after that.

Ciao,

JZH

10 hours ago, JZH

All Honda sport/touring bike forks I know of prior to the VFR1200 (so, from ca. 1990-2010) used Showa suspension, both ends.  I think the VFR1200 went to Kayaba; not sure what happened after that.

Ciao,

JZH

Showa and Mr. Honda worked together around Nakajima aircraft company starting in early 40 developing imperial naval air power. After war both went for producing consumer goods. Most likely in the same keiretsu...

Just an update! I have not taken the forks apart just yet..

I have adjusted the sag both front and back and went on a short spin. This has changed handling in corners abit.

Only problem is I have full preload on the front and the sag is not low enough (37mm) but pretty close. Will look into proper linear springs for my weight. Then I’ll service the forks!

I found these guys here a a potential option for a rear shock. Any experience? https://shock-factory.fr/fr/content/9-amortisseur-m-shock-2

Walker1, 3/27/2021 at 8:14 PM

I found these guys here a a potential option for a rear shock. Any experience? https://shock-factory.fr/fr/content/9-amortisseur-m-shock-2

Last year I was in same dilemma regarding suspension, and I wrote them, placing an order. Newer heard from them!! Product look a-OK! As I remember they were moving to France at the moment.

Instead I vent with: H0091CLU11 BITUBO REAR SHOCK ABSORBER HONDA VFR 800 (NO ABS) 1998-2002,found it on eBay, custom made in my spec , fully adjustable. Haven’t looked back since 🙂

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