Tired Of Having A Hot Vfr?

I was, we hit 85 here this week and the VFR started getting mighty toasty in stop and go traffic. I have bitched before about the stupidity of Honda's puller fan design on the left side rad.

For me the scenario is something like this.

If I'm cruising around at more than 20 mph, my water temp is 195 or less.

As soon as I get into stop and go driving, the temperature will begin to creep up. It will go up pretty darn fast if I'm stuck behind one of the city buses or next to delivery truck where you can just feel the heat pouring off the other vehicle.

Now once it hits 225 the fan switches on and the fun begins. The temperature does not go down, instead it will continue to creep up, In fact just the other day it went all the way to 230 before the light changed and I turned onto a side street so I could get out of traffic and move some air through. As soon as I get moving more than 25 mph and can keep moving that fast, the temp will come down. I have repeatedly checked that the fan is turning at full speed and even stopped to feel the heat being blown out the front of the bike.

So while I was on lunch Thursday, I wandered back into the Honda parts aisle to the section where we have cooling fans. I had a halfhearted hope that I could score a replacement fan for a vtr1000f. I was basing this choice on several facts. One the fans share the same locking nut on the shaft, they were specified as the same diameter, the motors are supposedly the same size and spin in the same direction.

Well we had one and since it was just sitting there on the shelf I bought it to put my own eyeball on the problem.

I had nothing really important that I could do anything with this afternoon,.. So I broke out the tools to see how hard could it be?

Well here are the pictures.

Here is the original stock Honda fan with the locknut removed from the shaft.

[image: gallery_5886_3799_56205.jpg]

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Here are the two blades side by side with the motor above

[image: gallery_5886_3799_65981.jpg]

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Here is the VTR fan blade slid on the shaft waiting for me to smear some paste locktite on the shaft threads

[image: gallery_5886_3799_69351.jpg]

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And another shot of the new fan inside the shroud and the old blade next to it. You can clearly see here that the VTR fan blades move the air in the opposite direction of the VFR fan. [image: gallery_5886_3799_69191.jpg]

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On pair of photos with the Honda packaging in the background so you can see and get the part number. [image: gallery_5886_3799_65484.jpg]

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[image: gallery_5886_3799_30542.jpg]

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I yanked out the pair system while I was in there and installed the block off plates from our own Toro1. I don't know about the rest of you, but the inside of the covers and the hoses was coated with a black oily film. I bet that was not good for power or emissions either!

Anyway I put it all back together, then started the bike and pretty much just let it sit until it was warm enough to engage the fan. Even in the still air of the garage, the 225 temp immediately started to drop and in minutes it cooled off enough that the fan switched back off. Yeah the heat blowing back from the left side was noticeable, but it was not excessive nor did it last very long.

I let it cycle like that a couple of times while I did things like lube the chain, adjust the throttle cable, inspect the welds on the sideracks, etc. After three more cycles, I shut it off and declared it a sound victory.

IMO, this is how Honda should have done it all along.

Sounds like you may have a winner. Let us know if you experiance in traffic is similar.

Let me preface this by saying that i'm not the most mechanical guy in the world, but...

Would it be possible to just take the OEM fan off and flip it 180 degrees so the fan blades are pointing the other direction rather than having to buy the vtx part? I've read lots of other threads and lots of people think it's counter productive to suck the air in the opposite direction of what is natural. I've been having MAJOR overheating issues and am looking for ideas on anything...

Perhaps you had some other underlying problem that it would not drop from 225+ degrees? In routine 110 degree ambient temperatures mine would kick the fan on at 220 and would drop to 200 or at least stay between 210 and 220.

I have no problem with the vfr cooling system , if bike goes over 220 fan comes on sends it back to 200 no issue completely stock

223/224 degrees is the max i ever see in the 37,000 mile I've owned it

todduluLet me preface this by saying that i'm not the most mechanical guy in the world, but...

Would it be possible to just take the OEM fan off and flip it 180 degrees so the fan blades are pointing the other direction rather than having to buy the vtx part? I've been having MAJOR overheating issues and am looking for ideas on anything...

Todd, this is something i've got experience with, I reversed polarity and flipped the blade on the right hand side of my RC51. It defineatly helped with the 51 but they are known to run hot, real hot in our climate. I had to drill out the backside of the blade alittle to make it work but that was the extent of it, oh I added some spacers also. Have you thought of removeing the V-cowl also as this allows more airflow over the cyclinders. In your case i'm not sure i'd do this as the VFR isn't typically a real hot runner, your problem is somewhere else although doing this shouldn't hurt even if the problems found. I took pics whilst doing it on the RC so I know what I did, real easy actually and if ya want to do it let me know, maybe I could help ya when I get back.

todduluLet me preface this by saying that i'm not the most mechanical guy in the world, but...

Would it be possible to just take the OEM fan off and flip it 180 degrees so the fan blades are pointing the other direction rather than having to buy the vtx part? I've read lots of other threads and lots of people think it's counter productive to suck the air in the opposite direction of what is natural. I've been having MAJOR overheating issues and am looking for ideas on anything...

If you mean flip the entire fan (motor and blade), I cannot see how that could be done. The space is at a premium in there and you would probably have to fabricate a new mount and shroud. Plus the motor would be very close to rad, which could cause all sorts of issues.

I suppose that you could just try reversing the fan motors direction by changing the polarity of the wiring, but that seemed like a lot of work to get a very inefficient fan.

besides by the time you pull the fan out and design a different solution, you could have installed the <$30USD fan blade could be installed and the bike buttoned. Back up.

All I know is that my fan comes on between 224 and 225, just as it always has since new.

I don't think that 225 vs 220 should make a whole lot of difference, and I don't know which way the VTEC fans 'attempt' to move the air.

I do know that I have heard this from other VFR owners in this area, and the only solution before this was "get moving ASAP". I know of one rider in my area that has scrapped the factory fan all together and he just takes his chances in traffic (of course he will also illegally lane split to keep moving).

I'll keep an eye on this for the next few days, and report my findings.

Yeh I dont know why some have more heating issues, I know the last guy was running watter wetter without antifreeze , and it says very clearly on the bottle does not significantly increase waters boiling point which is 212 degrees.

being the vfrs normal operating range is higher than that , I definitely see an issue developing

Well I hopped onto the online fiche and looked at the VTEC's fan.

It also is a puller or sucker fan blade. So it also sucks the heat from the radiator back into the rest of the bike.

It also looks like the VTR fan blade will fit on the Fan motor of the VTEC's but only a side by side comparison would tell.

So VTEC owner's if you are running hot in traffic, you might want to give it a try.

spud786Yeh I dont know why some have more heating issues, I know the last guy was running watter wetter without antifreeze , and it says very clearly on the bottle does not significantly increase waters boiling point which is 212 degrees.

being the vfrs normal operating range is higher than that , I definitely see an issue developing

The rad cap will raise the boiling point for you. 4 degrees for each pound of pressure. That means at sea level (since water boils at 212 at sea level), a 15 pound cap will raise the boiling point to 272 degrees. Note that in Denver, water boils at 202 degrees on an average day.

There are all sorts of ways to raise the boiling temp of the coolant, but that doesn't solve the issue of running hot and eventually overheating.

There are coolants that can get way up past 300F without boiling, but that is not okay for a bike's engine.

That is why I'm investigating the cooling air flow and a fan blade to change it from the original plan.

By the way, the GL1800 have a similar "backwards" flowing fan and their owners all complained to Mother Honda about it. The GL1800's would overheat in parades and traffic.

Honda did something to resolve this but I don't remember what it was (except that it was not to change the fan design).

So the rc51, the VFR and GL1800's have these draw in fan designs and they also have low speed cooling issues.

coincidence???

You tell me.

Today was cooler than last week and I did not encounter much creeping traffic, so I cannot offer much useful test data. All I can say is that when I stopped the bike after commuting home and the temp rose to 224, the fan kicked in and the temp very quickly (compared to other times) started to come back down.

Last summer I added a switch to the fan on my 01. So now I can turn the fan on before the temp gets to high in stop and go traffic. This winter I checked into my heating issues more and found the thermostat stuck part way open. (inherent problem with bikes listed)

The thermostat being stuck part way open does a few things:

1. The bike doesn't warm up very quick.

2. Once warmed up it won't hold temp at proper level for the fuel injection while moving (depending on how far open it is stuck and how cold out it is.)

3. If it is stuck open it warms the water in the rads so when the themostat is supposed to open and get cool water from the rad it gets pre heated water. And the temp just keeps climbing.

4. If you can cool the water in the rad before the thermostat opens you cool the motor down faster.

Therfore I like the idea of an override switch to get the process going before the temp gets to high in stop and go traffic.

It seems to work for me.

I do not wish to offend just hope this helps you and others.

Very interested in the outcome.

Keep us posted. :rolleyes:

combine pilotI checked into my heating issues more and found the thermostat stuck part way open. (inherent problem with bikes listed)

Thanks combine! My bike takes a long time to warm up but does hit 165 and stay around there but also doesn't seem to come down from 225 fast when idling w/ the fan on either. I initially thought the thermostat was messed up but as the weather got warmer the bike warmed up slightly faster but not as fast as a car normally does so I wasn't sure. Also my initial mileage was in the mid 30s which I HOPE is a problem with the thermostat. Combing this with your advice above gives me the idea that like yours my thermostat is stuck partly open . I wonder if I were to grab the upper radiator hose before the bike hit 165 and it was warm that might confirm it?

Well I would beg to differ with my compatriot AussieinUSA, and would dare to state that the VFR is a known hot-running bike. Everyone I know over here who has one, or knows someone who has one, says they boil your eggs in no time...

I find that if I'm not circulating above 80 km/h both my 5th and 6th gen will heat up to the max and enter into the cycle of tripping the fan at around 106ºC, cooling her down to 96ºC and heating back up.... and so on ad libitum

I agree, the design of the fan is flawed... to pull or suck air inward through the rad toward the motor is based on the idea that the air entering would be cooler than the air around the motor if the fan were to blow air through the radiator from the inside out... BUT, this is only valid if the bike is stationary and the ambient temp is relatively low. Here in the sunny 40ºC south-of-Spain summers this does not apply so much. Also, I don't tend to spend much stationary time on a running bike... only when stopped at the lights. If I do venture into city traffic, I am usually moving at some speed, albeit low... so if the fan kicks in, it's fighting against the natural air flow due to the movement of the bike and it's effect is probably neutralized to a high degree... or at least not taken advantage of to it's maximum potential.

Also... heat is the arch-enemy of our electrical systems and the number of R/R which die in the arse over here in summer is mind-boggling. Some spare parts outlets have realized this and stock up on more R/Rs over summer than usual... my dying R/R experience occurred after a stifflingly hot afternoon running around town on the 5th gen...

I have many a time wanted to reverse the polarity on the fans of both my bikes... but am unsure as to whether this would be agreeable for the motor, the fan's motor I mean... not the bike's. Using blades that run in the opposite direction sounds like a winner... it can't be all that bad the short periods you're stopped and it's blowing hotter air off the engine than ambient through the rad... and when you're at anything over 0km/h it must enhance the natural airflow in through the front of the bike... being able to manually switch the fan on could be a great plus in combination with the reversed helix... hmmmm, I reckon I'll have to try that for this summer... just have to keep in mind to turn the fan off when it's not needed and always before turning off the bike so it's not on when I want to start up the bike... although you'd hear it-... noisy bugger.

So the part number in the photo is for the reversed helix right?? Off the VTR??

I'd also live to whack another fan on the RHS rad, but the engine's eccentrically placed and there's no room for one the same size... a couple of PC fans fit on the outside in the gap in the fairing but I doubt they have enough pull... guy I know stuck two on there, claims it makes a difference... but he has the OEM fan switched and so it's hard to say where the blame lies... there's just enough room for a PC fan on the inside front-bottom corner of the RHS rad, but same difference I reckon.

AuspañolWell I would beg to differ with my compatriot AussieinUSA, and would dare to state that the VFR is a known hot-running bike. Everyone I know over here who has one, or knows someone who has one, says they boil your eggs in no time...

Ok, i'll give you that but I was comparing to my 51 (SP2), now theres a bike thats really known to run hot and in my case in summer always above 230f, my polarity/blade switch defineately helped. I hear ya though brother, Viffers can get toasty :rolleyes:

JES_VFRI was, we hit 85 here this week and the VFR started getting mighty toasty in stop and go traffic. I have bitched before about the stupidity of Honda's puller fan design on the left side rad....

[image: tn_gallery_5886_3799_30542.jpg]

DSCN1192.jpg

...IMO, this is how Honda should have done it all along.

Excellent post Jes. I'm going to have to have to perform this swap myself. :fing02:

I've found that the VFR's cooling system works very well when you're stopped. But, if you're riding around between 10-20 mph, the radiator fan loses all of its efficiency since it has to push against the wind. But, once you get up to highway speeds, the wind easily overpowers the fan and the bike cools down.

When I was in Billings, MT last summer, I was putting around town at about 15 mph. It was about 95°F out and I was currently running water with waterwetter (good stuff!). Well, my bike overheated, bad. I was seeing temperatures over 250°F and my VFR was puking radiator fluid everywhere. When I got on the interstate to head back to my hotel room, the temperature of the bike was hovering around 238°F as I was running an easy 85 mph. I refilled the bike later than night after it cooled down and i had lost 1/2 of my radiator fluid. There were a bunch of Goldwings there too and their bike's have the same stupid radiator setup that the VFR has too, and they were all having overheating problems just like me. Stupid Honda....

AussieinUSA

AuspañolWell I would beg to differ with my compatriot AussieinUSA, and would dare to state that the VFR is a known hot-running bike. Everyone I know over here who has one, or knows someone who has one, says they boil your eggs in no time...

Ok, i'll give you that but I was comparing to my 51 (SP2), now theres a bike thats really known to run hot and in my case in summer always above 230f, my polarity/blade switch defineately helped. I hear ya though brother, Viffers can get toasty :fing02:

Correction: my highly esteemed compatriot AussieinUSA... :fing02:

AuspañolSo the part number in the photo is for the reversed helix right?? Off the VTR??

That is the correct part number for a US market VTR1000f.

The new fan is louder when running than the old one. I don't know if that is because its moving the air out or if the blades just are a different design.

Did get into a little bit of traffic tonight coming home (I was kind of stuck in the right lane with a rear tire going down from a nail :fing02: :fing02: :beer: )!!!! Anyway at about the third light behind the morons who have nowhere better to drive their smoking hulks of 1960's GM crap, I hear the fan kick on.

The temp was 224 flicking to 225, where it sat for a minute, then it started to go down. A couple of minutes later, the temp is hovering at 219 and the light changes, as soon as I get moving, I'm clear of the GM heatmobile and the temp drops to 200, then 196.

Before it would have climbed to 230 and hung there for a couple of miles.

Auspañol

AussieinUSA

AuspañolWell I would beg to differ with my compatriot AussieinUSA, and would dare to state that the VFR is a known hot-running bike. Everyone I know over here who has one, or knows someone who has one, says they boil your eggs in no time...

Ok, i'll give you that but I was comparing to my 51 (SP2), now theres a bike thats really known to run hot and in my case in summer always above 230f, my polarity/blade switch defineately helped. I hear ya though brother, Viffers can get toasty :fing02:

Correction: my highly esteemed compatriot AussieinUSA... :fing02:

well thank you my Spanish speaking compadre' :beer:

I would suggest that a lot (but not all) of the "my VFR runs hot" babble that goes on is because we have a digital temperature readout instead of a dial. Now we are more conscious of the numbers instead of the hand on a dial hovering around about there somewhere smile.gif

AussieinUSA

Auspañol

AussieinUSA

AuspañolWell I would beg to differ with my compatriot AussieinUSA, and would dare to state that the VFR is a known hot-running bike. Everyone I know over here who has one, or knows someone who has one, says they boil your eggs in no time...

Ok, i'll give you that but I was comparing to my 51 (SP2), now theres a bike thats really known to run hot and in my case in summer always above 230f, my polarity/blade switch defineately helped. I hear ya though brother, Viffers can get toasty :fing02:

Correction: my highly esteemed compatriot AussieinUSA... :fing02:

well thank you my Spanish speaking compadre' :goofy:

How does spanish sound with an Aussie accent??? :beer: :cool: :laugh:

spud786I have no problem with the vfr cooling system , if bike goes over 220 fan comes on sends it back to 200 no issue completely stock

223/224 degrees is the max i ever see in the 37,000 mile I've owned it

+1 Mine's never approached 230 either.. Even when it's mid-high 90's out.

Darth Bling

JES_VFRI was, we hit 85 here this week and the VFR started getting mighty toasty in stop and go traffic. I have bitched before about the stupidity of Honda's puller fan design on the left side rad....

[image: tn_gallery_5886_3799_30542.jpg]

DSCN1192.jpg

...IMO, this is how Honda should have done it all along.

Excellent post Jes. I'm going to have to have to perform this swap myself. :fing02:

I've found that the VFR's cooling system works very well when you're stopped. But, if you're riding around between 10-20 mph, the radiator fan loses all of its efficiency since it has to push against the wind. But, once you get up to highway speeds, the wind easily overpowers the fan and the bike cools down.

Although I've never had my '00 puke all over the place, I do think the design is flawed. I see the same results as Darth for speeds below 30mph. The temp keeps rising unless I either STOP or wick it up to 45+.

John --- definitely keep us posted. I think it may be a winner of a swap!

-t

I don't know. I'm thinking there is something else at play here. I've sat in traffic (Warner Robins, GA...one of the worst traffic problems for a small city that I've ever seen) with ambient temps over 100F several times and never a problem. Temp hits 220, fan kicks on, hauls temp down to 212, fan kicks off. Repeat.

As for the design on the cooling system, really it makes sense to me. When the fan is running while the bike is moving, air is still dumping over the right side rad. I've made use of that very fact while my t-stat was messed up and ambient was too cool. I put a chunk of a license plate (what can I say, it was laying around and was a dead perfect fit) over the right side rad. Blocked enough air flow to keep the bike a bit warmer so I didn't have to run in a lower gear constantly, and I still didn't have to worry about overheating because the fan on the left rad.

Perhaps you guys are having issues with the right side radiator? Also, if you guys have changed your coolant, what did you use for a water source? Make sure you use distilled water. Pure H2O. Tap water and the like still have trace amounts of God knows what else in them...causing deposits and corrosion on the inside of the cooling system (and water jackets of the engine), decreasing the efficency of said cooling system.

Personally I would have tried just switching the polarity of the fan. I haven't looked at the wiring, but ASSume it is just 2 wires. I'm pretty sure it is a DC motor. It doesn't really care too much which way its spinning. Now, granted the fan blades may not be the most optimal shape for pushing air, but hey, you get what you pay for.

Just my $.02.

Here is an interesting option I came up with. This would allow control of the fan when the fan switch is NOT activated by the Temp getting to 220. It would provide a safeguard against forgetting to turn your fan on.

[image: VFRfanswitch.JPG]

I don't read shematics well so this is not a knock Tightwad. :rolleyes: Just simpfied.

I set up my switch as a closed ground (-) SoThe fan is switched on as a ground loop so no positive wire is required.My fan is swiched on manualy and or by the thermo couple.

This way I can't forget to turn it on. It also shuts off with the key if left on.

David

combine pilotI don't read shematics well so this is not a knock Tightwad. :rolleyes: Just simpfied.

I set up my switch as a closed ground (-) SoThe fan is switched on as a ground loop so no positive wire is required.My fan is swiched on manualy and or by the thermo couple.

This way I can't forget to turn it on. It also shuts off with the key if left on.

David

yeah, your way probably works better.....this is what I get for overthinking it. Piggyback onto the black wire, connect to switch, connect switch to ground. Power is switched with the key.

:pissed:

AB-OzI would suggest that a lot (but not all) of the "my VFR runs hot" babble that goes on is because we have a digital temperature readout instead of a dial. Now we are more conscious of the numbers instead of the hand on a dial hovering around about there somewhere smile.gif

I too agree with this. I also wonder how close the calibration of the gage is to correct. We all know the speedos are notoriously off. I would submitt that the temp gages are off a bit also.

My 98 never sees the temps mentioned here. I put a Scotts Performance oil filter on a few years back and it droped the temp. about 10 degrees. The filter has much more flow than a paper element filter. So it's like water and oil cooled.

AussieinUSA

todduluLet me preface this by saying that i'm not the most mechanical guy in the world, but...

Would it be possible to just take the OEM fan off and flip it 180 degrees so the fan blades are pointing the other direction rather than having to buy the vtx part? I've been having MAJOR overheating issues and am looking for ideas on anything...

Todd, this is something i've got experience with, I reversed polarity and flipped the blade on the right hand side of my RC51. It defineatly helped with the 51 but they are known to run hot, real hot in our climate. I had to drill out the backside of the blade alittle to make it work but that was the extent of it, oh I added some spacers also. Have you thought of removeing the V-cowl also as this allows more airflow over the cyclinders. In your case i'm not sure i'd do this as the VFR isn't typically a real hot runner, your problem is somewhere else although doing this shouldn't hurt even if the problems found. I took pics whilst doing it on the RC so I know what I did, real easy actually and if ya want to do it let me know, maybe I could help ya when I get back.

When I bought my RC51 the previous owner had removed the left side fan due to what he said was both fans pulling air into the engine area just made hot air build up in there. In the year and a half I've had it I have never replaced it and the temp never goes above 220. The right side fan seems to be enough. I have the fan and have thought about reversing it and placing it back on the bike but it really isn't necessary.

crepitusWhen I bought my RC51 the previous owner had removed the left side fan due to what he said was both fans pulling air into the engine area just made hot air build up in there. In the year and a half I've had it I have never replaced it and the temp never goes above 220. The right side fan seems to be enough. I have the fan and have thought about reversing it and placing it back on the bike but it really isn't necessary.

I tried this first and it worked great, actually better than what I ended up doing..................when moving. At stop and go and in slow moving traffic though it was a different story, the bikes temp rose incredibly quick to #'s that scared me so I wound up reversing polarity and blade which gave me the best results overall. I've read many posts where people said you only needed to change polarity and that would do the trick, well I tried this initially and found that that idea did absolutuley nothing. Whats happens is the blade now spins opposite so it should be pushing not pulling which it does except the pitch and direction of the blade are now wrong, the air ends up not only not pushing but also not sucking, it sorta does nothing at all. I tested this off the bike so I could really see what was happening, maybe on the bike it'd be different but i'm not sure how in stop and go traffic. Taking the fan out altogether, (left side) along with the plastic deflector was absolutely the best whilst moving, all sorts of air can hit the front cyclinder and escape through the left rad at speed. Just my findings and also on a 51, not tested on a VFR.

Also....I'm in an incredibly hot climate, on average 72 days over 100f, (last year we had over 90 days) so this is a brutal test for these machines

Todd, Spanglish is what I believe we're talkin here although he kicks my ass in both languages :rolleyes:

Did anybody answer the guy who asked: "Why not simply remove the stock fan from the stock fan motor, turn only the blade OVER so it pushes OUT rather than sucks IN, and reinstall the now-inverted blade back onto the stock fan motor?"?

If so, I missed it.

Misspent YouthDid anybody answer the guy who asked: "Why not simply remove the stock fan from the stock fan motor, turn only the blade OVER so it pushes OUT rather than sucks IN, and reinstall the now-inverted blade back onto the stock fan motor?"?

If so, I missed it.

That wont help, you would have to reverse the motor(polarity) also. I also think you'd possibly have to mod fan to make it fit, I know I had to on the 51. The VTR fan may be good though.

Misspent YouthDid anybody answer the guy who asked: "Why not simply remove the stock fan from the stock fan motor, turn only the blade OVER so it pushes OUT rather than sucks IN, and reinstall the now-inverted blade back onto the stock fan motor?"?

If so, I missed it.

That wouldn't work. If you flip the fan over, the blades are still at the same angle and will continue to push air into the engine compartment. All you would accomplish is making the fan less efficient, which may actually be a good thing especially at low speeds... :rolleyes:

For what it's worth:

Service Honda lists the part for $22.78 (USD)

Ron Ayers lists the part for $27.20 (USD)

Simple search with P/N provided (19020-MBB-003).

I think _*MY biggest issue is the stop and go, moving behind a behemoth (slowly), where the fan is on for a long time and the temps don't seem to go down.

If JES_VFR has good results, this mod may be something I pony up the big cash for (I'm a frugal/cheap bastid).

http://honda-partsdirect.com/

$23.69

Member JoeW on the forum can get you Honda parts. His prices are just as good as Service Honda's... FWIW

Alright, so the stock fan flipover won't work. Honda may have wanted to suck it in for ambient air to cool the radiator, or they wanted to kill some noise.

It seems pushing air out through the radiator with the VTR blade would move hot air out of the engine/pipes area (and pull ambient air into that area, maybe even through the right side radiator), but doing so would be to push hot air through a hot radiator to achieve a cooling effect. So I understand it works in practice, but that's one question that occurred to me - do you get the same cooling as stock if you're pushing hot air across the radiator?

The second issue has to do with push/pull. It's easier to pull a load than push it, and it seems when the stock fan is in use it would be easier for that motor to pull air from the outside through the radiator, than for the motor to push air through what, due to the fan's closeness to the radiator, actually becomes something of an obstruction. So my next issue is fan motor longevity if used to push, rather than pull. I have no clue, but throw it out to those who might.

I'd love to make the switch if the stock situation was done for noise purposes, the change was effective, and it didn't shorten my stock fan motor life.

y2kvfrFor what it's worth:

Service Honda lists the part for $22.78 (USD)

Ron Ayers lists the part for $27.20 (USD)

Simple search with P/N provided (19020-MBB-003).

I think _*MY biggest issue is the stop and go, moving behind a behemoth (slowly), where the fan is on for a long time and the temps don't seem to go down.

If JES_VFR has good results, this mod may be something I pony up the big cash for (I'm a frugal/cheap bastid).

Well I gave the standard msrp price since I got mine for 18.00 (hey, I'm a parts counter monkey, remember guys).

Anyway, I have an update:

Last night I actually had the fan switch on while limping along on some residential back streets last night (I had a roofing nail in the back tire and about 11 psi left).

The temp was 224 when I heard the fan switch on. At the time I was creeping along at about 15mph as I was about eight cars behind some bluehair heading home from her nightly church meeting. It only stayed at 224 for a few seconds and by the time I was another block down the street, it switched off again.

Oh and for the detail people. At 2230 hours last night I installed a stop-n-go mushroom plug with the pistol grip tool and filled the rear Avon to 48 psi.

So today I ran it pretty hard on my way into work, but did not encounter enough traffic to get the vfr past 190F.

And on the commute home tonight at 2015 hours, the indicated temp did not pass 223 until I was home, with the engine idling as I dismounted to unlock and open my garage door.

Again the temp immediately stopped climbing and started to decrease.

I don't think that the push/pull issue is one at all, since either way the fan motor's work is to move air through the radiator core.

As for it moving hot air from the header pipes, oil cooler and cylinders through the radiator to the exterior of the bike, I'm not sure that makes a huge difference. I mean heat is being removed from within the motorcycle and dumped into the atmosphere. I don't think that it matters a hell of a lot if it is drawn from the radiator or from the other sources, those calories are removed from the bike's systems and others will have to migrate in from somewhere.

What I do notice is that when the fan kicks in, I can easily reach down and feel the heat coming out of the left side. Before when it was sucking in air on that side and supposedly dumping heat out the right side, I could not feel heat on the right side. I also think that there is much less heat bleeding into the cockpit area at a stop light.

I think that I need to borrow a couple of small digital thermometers to monitor the temps in these areas.

I'm tentatively calling this a success.

JES_VFR

y2kvfrFor what it's worth:

Service Honda lists the part for $22.78 (USD)

Ron Ayers lists the part for $27.20 (USD)

Simple search with P/N provided (19020-MBB-003).

I think _*MY biggest issue is the stop and go, moving behind a behemoth (slowly), where the fan is on for a long time and the temps don't seem to go down.

If JES_VFR has good results, this mod may be something I pony up the big cash for (I'm a frugal/cheap bastid).

Well I gave the standard msrp price since I got mine for 18.00 (hey, I'm a parts counter monkey, remember guys).

Anyway, I have an update:

Last night I actually had the fan switch on while limping along on some residential back streets last night (I had a roofing nail in the back tire and about 11 psi left).

The temp was 224 when I heard the fan switch on. At the time I was creeping along at about 15mph as I was about eight cars behind some bluehair heading home from her nightly church meeting. It only stayed at 224 for a few seconds and by the time I was another block down the street, it switched off again.

Oh and for the detail people. At 2230 hours last night I installed a stop-n-go mushroom plug with the pistol grip tool and filled the rear Avon to 48 psi.

So today I ran it pretty hard on my way into work, but did not encounter enough traffic to get the vfr past 190F.

And on the commute home tonight at 2015 hours, the indicated temp did not pass 223 until I was home, with the engine idling as I dismounted to unlock and open my garage door.

Again the temp immediately stopped climbing and started to decrease.

I don't think that the push/pull issue is one at all, since either way the fan motor's work is to move air through the radiator core.

As for it moving hot air from the header pipes, oil cooler and cylinders through the radiator to the exterior of the bike, I'm not sure that makes a huge difference. I mean heat is being removed from within the motorcycle and dumped into the atmosphere. I don't think that it matters a hell of a lot if it is drawn from the radiator or from the other sources, those calories are removed from the bike's systems and others will have to migrate in from somewhere.

What I do notice is that when the fan kicks in, I can easily reach down and feel the heat coming out of the left side. Before when it was sucking in air on that side and supposedly dumping heat out the right side, I could not feel heat on the right side. I also think that there is much less heat bleeding into the cockpit area at a stop light.

I think that I need to borrow a couple of small digital thermometers to monitor the temps in these areas.

I'm tentatively calling this a success.

Good info. Now it occurs to me Honda might "suck" rather than "push" because pouring that heat that close to the fairing side might soften the paint/plastic if it goes on for a while?

Apparently the VTR pushes, so I'm looking for why the VFR pulls, and the extra plastic comes to mind. Thanks the experiment and ongoing data.

JES_VFR

y2kvfrFor what it's worth:

Service Honda lists the part for $22.78 (USD)

Ron Ayers lists the part for $27.20 (USD)

Simple search with P/N provided (19020-MBB-003).

I think _*MY biggest issue is the stop and go, moving behind a behemoth (slowly), where the fan is on for a long time and the temps don't seem to go down.

If JES_VFR has good results, this mod may be something I pony up the big cash for (I'm a frugal/cheap bastid).

Well I gave the standard msrp price since I got mine for 18.00 (hey, I'm a parts counter monkey, remember guys).

Anyway, I have an update:

Last night I actually had the fan switch on while limping along on some residential back streets last night (I had a roofing nail in the back tire and about 11 psi left).

The temp was 224 when I heard the fan switch on. At the time I was creeping along at about 15mph as I was about eight cars behind some bluehair heading home from her nightly church meeting. It only stayed at 224 for a few seconds and by the time I was another block down the street, it switched off again.

Oh and for the detail people. At 2230 hours last night I installed a stop-n-go mushroom plug with the pistol grip tool and filled the rear Avon to 48 psi.

So today I ran it pretty hard on my way into work, but did not encounter enough traffic to get the vfr past 190F.

And on the commute home tonight at 2015 hours, the indicated temp did not pass 223 until I was home, with the engine idling as I dismounted to unlock and open my garage door.

Again the temp immediately stopped climbing and started to decrease.

I don't think that the push/pull issue is one at all, since either way the fan motor's work is to move air through the radiator core.

As for it moving hot air from the header pipes, oil cooler and cylinders through the radiator to the exterior of the bike, I'm not sure that makes a huge difference. I mean heat is being removed from within the motorcycle and dumped into the atmosphere. I don't think that it matters a hell of a lot if it is drawn from the radiator or from the other sources, those calories are removed from the bike's systems and others will have to migrate in from somewhere.

What I do notice is that when the fan kicks in, I can easily reach down and feel the heat coming out of the left side. Before when it was sucking in air on that side and supposedly dumping heat out the right side, I could not feel heat on the right side. I also think that there is much less heat bleeding into the cockpit area at a stop light.

I think that I need to borrow a couple of small digital thermometers to monitor the temps in these areas.

I'm tentatively calling this a success.

So wiring wise - was it a snip it and reverse it job?

MD

mello dude

JES_VFR ...I'm tentatively calling this a success.

So wiring wise - was it a snip it and reverse it job?

MD

No. All Jes did was replace the radiator fan with one from the VTR. The wiring stays the same.

Darth Bling

mello dude

JES_VFR ...I'm tentatively calling this a success.

So wiring wise - was it a snip it and reverse it job?

MD

No. All Jes did was replace the radiator fan with one from the VTR. The wiring stays the same.

To be very specific,

All that I did was change the original fan blade for one from a VTR.

the fan motor is original.

the fan support is original.

Mello Dude, I suggest that you go back to the top and take another look at the pictures. I took one with the VFR fan blade on the motors shaft and then one of the new fan blade sitting on the same motor. What you see is all there was to the modification.

If you are mechanically skilled enough to go in and remove the radiator fan from the bike, then this swap is a no brainer.

todduluHow does spanish sound with an Aussie accent??? :schla15: :unsure: :fing02:

Emmm, just think of Mad Max overtaking the main part in El Zorro... :cool:

Auspañol

todduluHow does spanish sound with an Aussie accent??? :unsure: :fing02: :cool:

Emmm, just think of Mad Max overtaking the main part in El Zorro... :goofy:

He He He :schla15:

Cool running today, no really it was 57 ambient on the commute in this morning and so I barely got the bike to 165F.

And the ride home was 65 and very gusty so it was only showing about 189 when I shut off in my little garage.

I'm trying to clear the morning schedule tomorrow to get a real ride in and get some real readings on cooling conditions.

JES_VFR, what year VTR was that part number for, or is it the same for various years of VTR manufacture?

Bye the way, quoted price for VTR fan from Honda in Australia was AUD$43.

Cheers, Jules.

GoannaJES_VFR, what year VTR was that part number for, or is it the same for various years of VTR manufacture?

Bye the way, quoted price for VTR fan from Honda in Australia was AUD$43.

Cheers, Jules.

I just used the part number for a 2001 vtr, but I believe they are all the same.

I'll check in the morning

JES_VFR

GoannaJES_VFR, what year VTR was that part number for, or is it the same for various years of VTR manufacture?

Bye the way, quoted price for VTR fan from Honda in Australia was AUD$43.

Cheers, Jules.

I just used the part number for a 2001 vtr, but I believe they are all the same.

I'll check in the morning

This is a great fix if the data proves it out. It prompted me to look at the oil cooler for the VTR vs VFR. They look the same but the VTR is $138 while the VFR is $202. Can you see if this would be a viable swap if the Vtr is bigger?

Darth BlingI've found that the VFR's cooling system works very well when you're stopped. But, if you're riding around between 10-20 mph, the radiator fan loses all of its efficiency since it has to push against the wind. But, once you get up to highway speeds, the wind easily overpowers the fan and the bike cools down.

My 04 cools only adequately in stop and go traffic. However, I too have the same cooling problem at speed. Once my fan comes on at speed it will NEVER shut off until I stop and let the bike cool down. Not only is the fan pushing hot air back into the engine area, the other rad is now subjected to this hotter air and I suspect that the overall cooling capacity is further diminished. I have changed the thermostat and run water wetter with distilled water but this has made no difference.

I've always suspected that the bike would cool better if the fan direction was reversed. Last weekend I did an experiment by reversing the polarity of the fan. Basically, I just shaved off the keys on the connector and plugged them back together.

Here are the parameters of my experiment:

The model: VFR (VTEC) 2004

Reversed fan direction using stock fan (blade now turning in reverse) Fan is significantly louder than before.

Outside air temp 80 degrees

Results:

I let the bike idle until the fan started before riding at which point I rode it at speeds of 30-45mph. As I suspected the temp dropped rather quickly, the fan would cycle off at around 206 degrees F and the temp would stay there until I stopped the bike and let it idle long enough for the temps to rise again.

Unfortunately, with the fan in the reversed direction the air flow is significantly diminished (not a problem when moving) and the temp would slooowly climb while the bike sat on the driveway. The fan switched on at 222 and the temp climbed to 228 before I shut it down. Keep in mind that it's only 80 degrees so I imagine this overheating scenario would happen a lot faster when the temps get up into the 90's. For this reason I went back to the stock configuration.

I will have to further investigate the VTR Fan mod for the 6th gen model. I suspect that fan blade (turning in it's proper direction) pushing air out of the engine bay might cool the bike sufficiently at idle.

UPDATE

Well the temperatures are finally getting up to summer like weather again.

It was in the mid seventies yesterday morning (as opposed to 60ish) and I was running late.

So the VFR was ridden hard on the way into work and actually reached 220 as I pulled into the lot (which is only 35 degrees warmer than it was all of last week).

Coming out to go home at 2010 last night the bikes ext temp reading was 81 degrees, and the water temp was over a hundred after only a minute of idling.

I caught every one of the five stoplights on the way home and had to cross the bridge behind a DRPA Wannabe-a-cop. While waiting for the third stoplight (Its a separated fourway with left turn lights so its long), the coolant temp hit 224 and the fan kicked on. The temp immediately stopped climbing and in a about half a minute was heading back down.

It was back down below 220 before the light changed and the dropped like a rock as soon as I got moving again.

This would not have been the case before with the old fan blade.

Cruising down the boulevard the temp was 185 (not 227-8 and climbing) and it did not get enough time to rise back to 224 at the remaining two lights.

It did rise to 224 when I stopped at my garage and dismounted to open the door and turn on the light. As I backed the bike in, I took a moment to watch the temperature.

Ext temp was reading 78 degrees and there was no breeze at all, so the bike fan was the only air mover. The coolant took just shy of three minutes to come back down to about 218 and shut the fan off. Before this the temp would have just climbed until I switched it off.

I did get sometime to look through the fiche at work.

I used a 2001 VTR fan which is common to more than one year VTR.

It will also fit on the motor shafts of VTEC VFR's and RC51 cooling fan motors.

Now my fiche does not show fan diameters or shroud dimensions so I cannot say if it will fit 100%, but it does look promising for these applications as well.

the fan will be noiser than the stock sucker.

That is simply because the noise a fan makes follows the air flow it generates and so the noise is pushed out with the air instead of pulled in and buried against the engine.

Well after reading this I got all confused with everyones replies pushing air, pulling air. I'll check my own bike tomorrow but anyways if the stock fan "pulls" air from outside the fairing and into the engine bay then that is a puller fan and thats the best setup to have. A pulling fan is a lot better at cooling then a pushing fan.

If the VTR fan pushes the air from the engine bay to the outside of the fairing then its now a pushing fan. The reason it's probably cooling better is the fan blades. They are bigger/wider and may have a different degree angle so its able to move more air at a higher cfm rating.

rangerscott69Well after reading this I got all confused with everyones replies pushing air, pulling air. I'll check my own bike tomorrow but anyways if the stock fan "pulls" air from outside the fairing and into the engine bay then that is a puller fan and thats the best setup to have. A pulling fan is a lot better at cooling then a pushing fan.

Unless you're riding at 20-25 MPH and your forward progress is neutralizing the effect of the fan. I've seen it happen on my own bike.

I know that. I was just stating that a puller fan is more effiecent than a pusher fan. Of course how our bike's rads are set up it doesnt help. LOL I'm going with a bigger oil cooler this summer.

Anybody ever try one of these?

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAP...em=250246515404

Noy buying one myself, just ran across them on EBAY by chance.

veefer800canuckAnybody ever try one of these?

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAP...em=250246515404

Noy buying one myself, just ran across them on EBAY by chance.

I know that this had been discussed before, but since I believed the direction of airflow with the factory fan blade to be the root of the problem it kind of seemed to be a moot point.

I might buy one.

I find it interesting that the fan is engaged when the temperature in the radiator end tank is approx 195, yet where the displays temperature sensor is its 224. It would be a logical assumption that the sensor would be placed where Honda calculated the hottest point of the coolant would be (or at least very to the hottest point). If I change the fan switch and it engages at about 176, what is the temperature going to be at the hottest point.

I do know that if I install that switch, the fan will be running a lot more in traffic and perhaps even when the bike is out on the highway.

And it is time for another update.

Yesterday was good and hot, so of course traffic was royal mess.

I was stuck idling 25 minutes waiting for the DRPA Wanna-a-be's and maintenance crews to decide to allow traffic to go through the tolls and cross the bridge. The bike hit the magic 224, then dropped to 220 where it hovered in the sweltering heat that the traffic was creating.

Once the traffic started to move, I was gone pushing my luck with traffic on the secondary streets. Riding quite a bit faster than could be called safe to try and make it to work on time.

I did not really take the time to monitor how fast the temp dropped, but it was only 175 when I pulled into work less than a mile from bridge (and I was really hauling).

Of course it was a pretty hot day in Philly yesterday and my schedule was not helping anything either.

Last night was my oldest son's confirmation, which of course I had to leave work early to attend.

I got out later than I wanted since we were a little bit jammed up when I was trying to leave and had to hammer my way through the rush hour traffic.

Lets just say I did not bend the speed limits on the way home, I broke them big time.

The evil little voice inside my head was cheering as I blitzed the bridge, carved the ramps and pretty much screwed the risk index to the stop (well for me at least) to get home.

I kept the bike wound tight most of the time, too busy dealing with the traffic and the road conditions to sweat what RPM I was turning.

Anyway the bike was quickly on the fan at both of the traffic lights I had to stop at. Both times the temperature began dropping almost immediately.

When I backed the bike into the garage, it was 218.

Considering that I was too hot on both legs of the commute, I have to think that this fan swap is a success.

Well I gave this the 'oven' test today. I had to ride through center city Philadelphia to King of Prussia, where my credit union is.

That meant that I got off the Ben Franklin Bridge, onto Vine Street Expressway 'aka the canyon or the oven' and then took the Schuylkill Expressway "aka the Surekill pressure cooker".

It took me 48 minutes to go 2.6 miles with the traffic snarl on Vine Street. Over onto the Schuylkill until I was passed the ramp for the Philly Zoo.

When I first came down off the bridge the coolant temp was 185, ambient temp displayed on the panel was a lovely 75 degrees and the contact reading strip thermometer read 68 on my tank (I had just filled up like 5 minutes before).

As soon as I crept down into the Oven of Vine street, the external temp was 89 degrees, the coolant temp shot up to 228, the fan clicked on, I instantly sweat soaked the clothes I had on under my gear, on the tank I got a 70 degree reading.

A big step-side delivery truck cut back in front of me and I don't know what he was carrying, but the heat that was radiating from the truck was like standing right in front of a open oven.

About two minutes later the coolant temp is 235, the external temp on the panel is 93 an creeping up, my tank still only reads 72.

At that point I opened my flip face helmet drank half of one bottle of a 'my-ade' slushie, while I tried to guess how far back I could hang from the truck without having any more BDC's cut in on me. Mentally I started reviewing how many more bottles I had to drink and how far behind I probably already was.

I looked down and noticed that my very worn riding boots were leaving tread impressions in the expansion joint strips.

By the time I finally crept past the Philadelphia Zoo ramp exit on the Schuylkill, I had witnessed a SUV, a Lexus sedan and some Yamaha cruiser violently overheat and finished my drink. I was starting to wonder if I should jump off the highway and get some more cold drinks, but I was satisfied with the fan mod. I know that before the mod I would have had to get off onto some side-streets to get moving air or it would have run up above 250 where the display starts to flash.

Today, the temp climbed to 238 with the fan running, and yeah it was making my left leg a lot hotter than my right leg or my butt. The rate that the temp climbed was slower than with the old fan. By the time the coolant reached 238, the external temp reading was 99 and the tank was 100.

As soon as I got clear of the snarl and got the bike moving above 30, the temp started to come down. In one mile it was down to 232, while the external temp was only down to 96 and the tank was still 100.

By the time I got the 3.6 miles to City Avenue, the coolant temp was back down to 190, the external temp was down to 80 and tank temp was down to 89.

The fan had long since shut off, Where as before it still probably would have been running.

After today's ride, I'm calling this fan mod a complete success.

Oh and I think that I have a 6th gen rider that is willing to be the VTEC Tester for the list.

His Bike is at the dealership I work at for some service and I have another fan blade to try and fit on his bike details to follow

Ouch - $54 is a lot of money for that sensor sad.gif

I wonder what OTHER product would fit our VFR's that would do the same..

Will check out car shops soon..

-t

turgut kalfaogluOuch - $54 is a lot of money for that sensor sad.gif

I wonder what OTHER product would fit our VFR's that would do the same..

Will check out car shops soon..

-t

Well that is not a US market sensor so part of the $54 goes to importing it.

I don't think that will cure cooling problem, it will just make the fan run a whole lot more.

JES_VFRWell I gave this the 'oven' test today. I had to ride through center city Philadelphia to King of Prussia, where my credit union is.

That meant that I got off the Ben Franklin Bridge, onto Vine Street Expressway 'aka the canyon or the oven' and then took the Schuylkill Expressway "aka the Surekill pressure cooker".

It took me 48 minutes to go 2.6 miles with the traffic snarl on Vine Street. Over onto the Schuylkill until I was passed the ramp for the Philly Zoo.

When I first came down off the bridge the coolant temp was 185, ambient temp displayed on the panel was a lovely 75 degrees and the contact reading strip thermometer read 68 on my tank (I had just filled up like 5 minutes before).

As soon as I crept down into the Oven of Vine street, the external temp was 89 degrees, the coolant temp shot up to 228, the fan clicked on, I instantly sweat soaked the clothes I had on under my gear, on the tank I got a 70 degree reading.

A big step-side delivery truck cut back in front of me and I don't know what he was carrying, but the heat that was radiating from the truck was like standing right in front of a open oven.

About two minutes later the coolant temp is 235, the external temp on the panel is 93 an creeping up, my tank still only reads 72.

At that point I opened my flip face helmet drank half of one bottle of a 'my-ade' slushie, while I tried to guess how far back I could hang from the truck without having any more BDC's cut in on me. Mentally I started reviewing how many more bottles I had to drink and how far behind I probably already was.

I looked down and noticed that my very worn riding boots were leaving tread impressions in the expansion joint strips.

By the time I finally crept past the Philadelphia Zoo ramp exit on the Schuylkill, I had witnessed a SUV, a Lexus sedan and some Yamaha cruiser violently overheat and finished my drink. I was starting to wonder if I should jump off the highway and get some more cold drinks, but I was satisfied with the fan mod. I know that before the mod I would have had to get off onto some side-streets to get moving air or it would have run up above 250 where the display starts to flash.

Today, the temp climbed to 238 with the fan running, and yeah it was making my left leg a lot hotter than my right leg or my butt. The rate that the temp climbed was slower than with the old fan. By the time the coolant reached 238, the external temp reading was 99 and the tank was 100.

As soon as I got clear of the snarl and got the bike moving above 30, the temp started to come down. In one mile it was down to 232, while the external temp was only down to 96 and the tank was still 100.

By the time I got the 3.6 miles to City Avenue, the coolant temp was back down to 190, the external temp was down to 80 and tank temp was down to 89.

The fan had long since shut off, Where as before it still probably would have been running.

After today's ride, I'm calling this fan mod a complete success.

Oh and I think that I have a 6th gen rider that is willing to be the VTEC Tester for the list.

His Bike is at the dealership I work at for some service and I have another fan blade to try and fit on his bike details to follow

i was so happy when i read this thread!!!! i remember my 99 5th gen...it always ran hot...unless it was 70 degrees out it was a pressure cooker. my last bike an 03 rc51 had the same problem...i remember reading peoples suggestions on how to fix this..www.rc51.com...everything from reversing the polarity to water wetter to crazy expensive carbon fiber shrouds that redirected the air flow....man what alot of work to correct a simple thing that honda screwed up..so i made the suggestion that changing the direction of air flow would clear up the problem...people shot me down quicker than a duck during hunting season....some said it would even make it run hotter....so as usual(like you) ....i went my own way and did the exact same thing.....lmao!!!!! it worked...really well!!! when i sold the bike i put it back to stock....kept all of the old parts....hopefully when time and work permits ill have another 51 to use for those track days i always seem too short of time for. job well done....safe riding :biggrin:

Furnace testII.

Time 16:25 EST

Ambient temp on bike's ambient temp sensor - 105 F.

Ambient temp according to stick on 'instant' read thermometer - 108F.

Humidity was very high.

It took the bike all of 10 seconds to register a 100 temp and about a three minutes to hit 180.

For the first time ever I pulled out of the lot at work with the bike fully up to temp.

Ripping over the bridge and carving the exit ramps at 60+ speeds brought the temp up to 200, where it stayed until I stopped three blocks from home. The temp shot up to 228, before the fan could be heard to engage, where it stayed until I got moving again. Then in the couple of blocks to get home (and at a speed of roughly 30mph, the temp dropped to 210. It shot up to 228 again as I pulled up to the garage and manually opened the door. I backed the bike in with out the temp dropping. The temp of the bike very slowly came down to about 224, but then in the heat of the garage it did not drop futher.

I again checked both the ambient thermometers and got readings of 111F and 112F. At that point I turned on the big fan I have in the garage to move air and opened the back window. After several minutes, the sweat on my arms and face started to cool and the temp of the bike started to fall. It dropped to about 215 then started to climb right back up to 224.

I watched this cycle about three times in 25 minutes and finally realized that I better get out of my gear and cool off.

Anyway, I think that the bike fan is working great as long as the ambient air can cool. When it was in the mostly closed space of the garage, it rapidly staturated the mostly stagnant air in the building and therefore was unable to further cool the system down.

So again I think was a great mod.

In them mean time I have to replace one of the window air conditioners now as it died today in the noon heat.

JES_VFRFurnace testII.

Time 16:25 EST

Ambient temp on bike's ambient temp sensor - 105 F.

Ambient temp according to stick on 'instant' read thermometer - 108F.

Humidity was very high.

It took the bike all of 10 seconds to register a 100 temp and about a three minutes to hit 180.

For the first time ever I pulled out of the lot at work with the bike fully up to temp.

Ripping over the bridge and carving the exit ramps at 60+ speeds brought the temp up to 200, where it stayed until I stopped three blocks from home. The temp shot up to 228, before the fan could be heard to engage, where it stayed until I got moving again. Then in the couple of blocks to get home (and at a speed of roughly 30mph, the temp dropped to 210. It shot up to 228 again as I pulled up to the garage and manually opened the door. I backed the bike in with out the temp dropping. The temp of the bike very slowly came down to about 224, but then in the heat of the garage it did not drop futher.

I again checked both the ambient thermometers and got readings of 111F and 112F. At that point I turned on the big fan I have in the garage to move air and opened the back window. After several minutes, the sweat on my arms and face started to cool and the temp of the bike started to fall. It dropped to about 215 then started to climb right back up to 224.

I watched this cycle about three times in 25 minutes and finally realized that I better get out of my gear and cool off.

Anyway, I think that the bike fan is working great as long as the ambient air can cool. When it was in the mostly closed space of the garage, it rapidly staturated the mostly stagnant air in the building and therefore was unable to further cool the system down.

So again I think was a great mod.

In them mean time I have to replace one of the window air conditioners now as it died today in the noon heat.

having owned a 99vfr and a 03 rc51.....jes...i have to agree with you 100% on the fix....5th gen vfr's run on the hottttt side....specially when the temp get's in the 90's...the rc was a oven in those temp's....i did the same fix on the rc51 and the heat problem was resolved perfectly! im amazed at how many people will argue or disagree with a fix that works as well as this one....i only wish people would be more open minded....this was the response's i got when i posted your fix on the rc51 web site.....unreal!

http://www.speedzilla.com/forums/rc51-tech...html#post483597

my vfr overheated twice and the rc at least 5 times....after the fix the rc never overheated again...and the temp always stayed below 225.

John:

Any indication that the plastic is deforming or becoming pliable with the fan pushing? At this point I think that would be the only thing keeping me from doing the mod!

y2kvfrJohn:

Any indication that the plastic is deforming or becoming pliable with the fan pushing? At this point I think that would be the only thing keeping me from doing the mod!

No the plastic is fine on the left side.

For what it is worth, I have held my hand down in front of the outlet when the fan is running. There is plenty of heat coming out, I mean I would not want to have to hold my hand there for an extended time, but it is not near burning temps.

I have not had time to borrow my buddies infared temp gun to take some measurements, but will soon.

y2kvfrJohn:

Any indication that the plastic is deforming or becoming pliable with the fan pushing? At this point I think that would be the only thing keeping me from doing the mod!

You could look at it as that the normal mode of operation when the bike is moving down the road, the air pushing through the front and out the sides of the radiators is the same as the blow out fan?

Just a thought..

MD

Has anybody tried this on a 6th gen yet?

is it the same RC51 fan that I would need?

Bike Bandit lists the 2001 VFR fan as part number 67875 and the 2002 VFR fan as part # 1470439

Please help because I would realy like to try this mod on my 02.

I'm suspecting that you'll have to flip the blade and reverse the polarity for a 6th Gen. I don't have time now but maybe I'll try within the next couple of weeks.

Maddog HoekI'm suspecting that you'll have to flip the blade and reverse the polarity for a 6th Gen. I don't have time now but maybe I'll try within the next couple of weeks.

You don't have to do any of that. Flipping the fan blade won't help the direction the air flows, it will still flow the same way. Reversing the polarity of the motor would change the direction, but even Dc motors like the ones used in the fan's are designed to turn only one way best.

I know that there are two VFR owners right now about to try the VTR fan blade. One has his his bike at the dealership I work at waiting for Honda to cough up a recall wiring harness. The other one is a regular on another forum and will let me know in the next couple of days how it works out for him.

I think they are both going to find success, but I'm going to be cautious and wait to see.

I think I am going to take the $23 gamble and be 6th gen guinea pig #3

I will let you know how it goes

forrer13I think I am going to take the $23 gamble and be 6th gen guinea pig #3

I will let you know how it goes

Anxious to hear how it goes... my 6th gen runs warm in the 5-30 mph speeds... I'm guessing a fan working WITH the natural wind direction would be much more effcient than trying to fight it as Honda designed it... but then again, I'm no engineer!

I've ordered the helix at my local dealer's over here in southeastern Spain. we have had unseasonably cool weather up until this week. Last night at around 20.00 hours (it's daylight until 22.30) I was forced to ride through satellite townships of my (smallish) city, which has undergone rapid expansion. On the outskirts you can find yourself traversing one small town after another with no gaps, loads of traffic lights and only one lane per direction.

The bike rapidly got up to 106ºC and the fan kicks in, entering into that vicious cycle whereby the fan's effectiveness is nullified by the natural airflow created by the forward movement of the bike. I spent half an hour "boiling my eggs" and worried that the electrical system was suffering (heat is it's enemy). My R/R kicked the bucket two summers ago under identical circumstances.

On arriving at my destination, I left the bike running to see if it was capable of refrigerating the system whilst stopped (no antagonistic airflow). No way José... it stayed at 104ºC, it did not rise, but it did not drop. The fan was on for what seemed like an eternity and eventually cut out WITHOUT having dropped the temp to 96ºC which is when the thermoswitch is designed to cut it out. I guess that is a safety mechanism, designed to save the battery... I hope I didn't blow a fuse.

I no longer give a stuff, I am willing to try the experiment... from what we've seen so far it certainly doesn't appear to be any worse at least. I'm willing to risk the paint peeling or the plastic deforming... I doubt very much that will happen as while your riding, hot air is being forced through from the inside out anyway, and besides, the front and rear edge of the radiators are sizzling hot and physically in extremely close proximity to the fairing...

Stay tuned for the results...

UPDATE

The fan fits the 6th gen's also.

Mother Honda finally delivered the wiring harness for a local VFR owners wiring harness recall, so we got the bike in and on the lift.

to quote the tech "it fit as good or better than that screwed up original fan" (gee, can you tell he doesn't think much of the suck in honda fan designs!!!).

Anyway the bike has been cycled a couple of times in the heat soaked and mostly still air of the one shop bay, so we know that it works.

I was hoping to get a shot at test riding it but we were to busy.

So there you have it folks.

The VTR fan works on Vtec bikes too!!!!!.

Looks like I've got a new project, Thanks for looking out!

Hello all; I am a new guy to the forum, Yes my 2000 VFR has a tendency to run toasty. I read about

the fan blade modification in another forum and quickly called my dealer and ordered

one.Just picked it up yesterday and havent had a chance to install it. But I have been

noodleing

about the modification for a week or two and in every scenario that comes to mind I

believe the blade that pulls air out of the engine compartment and thru the radiator is

a superior design than the sucker blade. I believe one of the biggest advantages of

the puller blade would be in slow traffic with the fan motor on. In this situation the air flow

and fan are working against each other. Anyway most of this has already been said in the

previous replies,but guess I am just trying to get my feet wet. eddie

onedowneasterHello all; I am a new guy to the forum, Yes my 2000 VFR has a tendency to run toasty. I read about the fan blade modification in another forum and quickly called my dealer and ordered one.Just picked it up yesterday and havent had a chance to install it. But I have been noodling about the modification for a week or two and in every scenario that comes to mind I believe the blade that pulls air out of the engine compartment and thru the radiator is a superior design than the sucker blade. I believe one of the biggest advantages of the puller blade would be in slow traffic with the fan motor on. In this situation the air flow and fan are working against each other. Anyway most of this has already been said in the previous replies,but guess I am just trying to get my feet wet. eddie

Yeah that's pretty much the problem right there.

Install the new blade and be happy.

I've been corresponding with Jes on this issue on the STN forum and wanted to share my findings with you regarding this fan mod for the 6th gen model VFR's

Well, I just got back from a great road test with with the VFR post fan modification.

I rode in many different situations with the temps ranging from 70 degrees all the way up to 106 degrees. EEK! I even had the opportunity to compare notes with a friend who rides an 07 model.

In the morning the temp was in the low 70's when I put the bike on the interstate. As expected there were no issues and the coolant temp maintained 190 or so at 85mph.

I met up with my friend at 7:30 and we traded VFR's, he was riding my 04 and I was riding his 07. As we made our way up Palomar Mountain the air temp was around 78 degrees. Before long his temp was in the low 220's and his fan kicked in at which point his temps rose rather quickly up to 234 and remained with the fan running for the rest of the climb. My friend reported to me that the temp on my 04 hit 225 and held constant with the fan running.

After switching back to my bike I did some further testing up and down the mountain. I discovered that in a situation when the bike is under a load the fan is unable to get the temp down low enough to turn off. However,the fan is able to maintain the temp in the 215 225 range (depending on the load) as opposed to getting into the 230's such as my friends' 07 and higher (240s) as seen previously on my bike.

At idle with the temps above 90 degrees the fan can hold the temp around 215 - 218 but it was unable to get the temp down low enough to shut off. However, once under way under normal riding conditions the temps dropped 210 or so and the fan remained off.

On my way home I saw a high of 106 on the interstate and decided to push the bike hard by running 90+. At those speeds the temps rose to 223 and the fan engaged. Once again the fan could not cool sufficiently to turn off but It did maintain the temps at a range of 218-221 consistently. This is where I had my most severe problem with the temps creeping into the 240 range. Also, I observed that when getting within 100 feet of another vehicle that the temp rose slightly but once back into the air stream it would fall back into the same levels.

Finally, In traffic at speeds up to 50mph with temps in the mid 90's the VFR ran consistently in the 209-213 range with the fan OFF. At a traffic light or in slow heavy traffic the temp would quickly spike to 222 and the fan would kick in slowly reducing the temp to 218 or so. But once moving at around 20 mph the temp dropped steadily down to 210 and the fan could disengage. In the past the fan would not have had enough time before the light changed to cool down below it's cutoff point. Once under way it was stuck on and the temps hovered around 220's in traffic. The only way it would shut off is if I were to pull over and wait for a few minutes but that was useless because the temp would climb back to 222 at the next stop anyway. Hmm... Let's see, Fan off bike runs cooler, Fan on Bike runs hotter.... Makes sense to me Headscratch....

I ran the VFR under some of the most demanding conditions that most people will likely see and it performed much better than it ever has. The highest temp it ever got to was 225, hot but tolerable. I am now comfortable taking the bike out on my upcoming 3800 mile journey through the 4 corners states. I can also go on record to say that this mod seems to work better than the stock setup for the 6th gen model VFR.

Jes,

Thanks once again for your detective work figuring out that a VTR fan blade is compatible with the VFR fans.

Oh yeah, I forgot to mention that after the fan had been running for about 5 minutes while the bike sat on the driveway the bike (especially the clutch) was pretty hot to the touch as hot air works it's way up between the side fairing and the gas tank. However it was no big deal as it cooled off quickly once the bike was in motion.

This might be one of the reasons that Honda designed the fan to pull inward.

I just did this mod too. I does work rather well. My bike stayed pretty low in temp. Never went above 220. And it was 95 degree's out. Plus I do use water wetter in the bike too. A cheap mod and improves air flow. Highly recomended.

vfrvernI've been corresponding with Jes on this issue on the STN forum and wanted to share my findings with you regarding this fan mod for the 6th gen model VFR's

<.....>

After switching back to my bike I did some further testing up and down the mountain. I discovered that in a situation when the bike is under a load the fan is unable to get the temp down low enough to turn off. However,the fan is able to maintain the temp in the 215 225 range (depending on the load) as opposed to getting into the 230's such as my friends' 07 and higher (240s) as seen previously on my bike.

At idle with the temps above 90 degrees the fan can hold the temp around 215 - 218 but it was unable to get the temp down low enough to shut off. However, once under way under normal riding conditions the temps dropped 210 or so and the fan remained off.

On my way home I saw a high of 106 on the interstate and decided to push the bike hard by running 90+. At those speeds the temps rose to 223 and the fan engaged. Once again the fan could not cool sufficiently to turn off but It did maintain the temps at a range of 218-221 consistently. This is where I had my most severe problem with the temps creeping into the 240 range. Also, I observed that when getting within 100 feet of another vehicle that the temp rose slightly but once back into the air stream it would fall back into the same levels.

Finally, In traffic at speeds up to 50mph with temps in the mid 90's the VFR ran consistently in the 209-213 range with the fan OFF. At a traffic light or in slow heavy traffic the temp would quickly spike to 222 and the fan would kick in slowly reducing the temp to 218 or so. But once moving at around 20 mph the temp dropped steadily down to 210 and the fan could disengage. In the past the fan would not have had enough time before the light changed to cool down below it's cutoff point. Once under way it was stuck on and the temps hovered around 220's in traffic. The only way it would shut off is if I were to pull over and wait for a few minutes but that was useless because the temp would climb back to 222 at the next stop anyway. Hmm... Let's see, Fan off bike runs cooler, Fan on Bike runs hotter.... Makes sense to me Headscratch....

I ran the VFR under some of the most demanding conditions that most people will likely see and it performed much better than it ever has. The highest temp it ever got to was 225, hot but tolerable. I am now comfortable taking the bike out on my upcoming 3800 mile journey through the 4 corners states. I can also go on record to say that this mod seems to work better than the stock setup for the 6th gen model VFR.

Jes,

Thanks once again for your detective work figuring out that a VTR fan blade is compatible with the VFR fans.

Oh yeah, I forgot to mention that after the fan had been running for about 5 minutes while the bike sat on the driveway the bike (especially the clutch) was pretty hot to the touch as hot air works it's way up between the side fairing and the gas tank. However it was no big deal as it cooled off quickly once the bike was in motion.

This might be one of the reasons that Honda designed the fan to pull inward.

You, and everyone else are welcome.

As far as the fan not being able to cool below a certain point under load and/or ambient conditions, I have seen that as well (and reported it). However these were conditions that prior to my changing the blade would have had the bike up in the 240 range and me searching for a way out.

I have been looking at more ways to cool the VFR and have a few ideas, but as Vern points out, the heat has to go somewhere and unfortunately its going to have to pass close to you guys the riders. And by that I mean either out the left side and past your leg or up along the left side near your clutch hand, or out the back under the naughty bits.

That is just the facts when it comes to riding in the summer heat, the engine heat has to go somewhere?

So until I get the next step sorted out, try and stay cool

So, just out of curiosity, what is the next step? Bigger radiators? thermo switch that turns the fan on sooner? Addition of a second fan on the right radiator? or a manual fan on/off switch?

Enquiring minds want to know....

PS my new fan is on order, should arrive late this week.

I am truely amazed at the temperatures that you are all seeing. But, I have yet to see the highway, at rushhour, in the scortching heat. Hell, it's not even 80 here yet. :beer:

forrer13So, just out of curiosity, what is the next step? Bigger radiators? thermo switch that turns the fan on sooner? Addition of a second fan on the right radiator? or a manual fan on/off switch?

Enquiring minds want to know....

I would suggest a fan on the right side. In fact I would go so far as to suggest a computer fan on the right side. They are small, lightweight and move a good amount of air. I would wire in a manual switch controled but keep it controlled by the other fan. In the heat of the summer, turn the switch on, and when the temps drop back to liveable, turn it off.

I hear that 6th gen rads are bigger, but you are looking at a big expense there as well as some possible machine work. Just move the air past the heat exchangers faster. :goofy:

http://cgi.ebay.com/25-Nidec-Beta-V-12-Vol...1QQcmdZViewItem

I am thinking about mounting one of these to the inside of the other radiator. Hard wire to the battery through a simple fuse and toggle switch. Its only .11 amp so no relay would be needed.

When I install the new fan I will look at this for clearance.

Has anyone tried this before? Mayby I will make a DIY.

Howdy Forrer 13; That little fan only pulls 10 CFM, I am not sure that would make a difference. I know

Radio Shack has a couple 12 volt fans and one is considerably larger than your 10

cfm unit, that may be a better option. Anyway I am not trying to supress your

creativity.

Does anyone know how many CFM the OE fan pulls?

I pulled two fans from an old computer I have at home and was going to hook them both up together, they are about 4" square each. I should be able to attach them with some zip ties through the radiator fins.

The previous owner installed heated grips on my bike, which I have never used, and probably never will, so I was thinking about using the heated grip switch to manually turn on and off the computer fans. Plus there is already power run to that switch.

So my thought is riding around, bike reaches 200 F, turn on computer fans. One of two things will happen. Bike will stay around 200 F and drop off when I start moving. Or temp will continue to climb to the point at which the factory fan will switch on.

This is gonna be a fun project, and should be totally reversible if it doesnt work.

forrer13So, just out of curiosity, what is the next step? Bigger radiators? thermo switch that turns the fan on sooner? Addition of a second fan on the right radiator? or a manual fan on/off switch?

Enquiring minds want to know....

PS my new fan is on order, should arrive late this week.

I went to my dealer to order the SH fan and they say they are on back order. Meaning no way can they tell when I would get one if I ordered.

Just curiuos - how many of us jumped out and ordered one? New demand - new shortage?

MD

mello dude

forrer13So, just out of curiosity, what is the next step? Bigger radiators? thermo switch that turns the fan on sooner? Addition of a second fan on the right radiator? or a manual fan on/off switch?

Enquiring minds want to know....

PS my new fan is on order, should arrive late this week.

I went to my dealer to order the SH fan and they say they are on back order. Meaning no way can they tell when I would get one if I ordered.

Just curiuos - how many of us jumped out and ordered one? New demand - new shortage?

MD

Order one after I hit 249 on a run a few weeks ago. Also burped the system which seems to have helped a lot. Still hitting over 230 very often.

I'm pretty comfortable with my bike temps (I only ride with it set to ambient, and ignorance is bliss on this issue for most), but I was thinking of a small/computer fan to assist in exhausting the engine compartment with the stock sucker fan....somewhere other than at the rads. It seems to me the aerodynamic design comes into play with the rads and does somewhat different things at different speeds, so why not vent some of the hot air out another direction? It's just a thought and I may tinker with it.

I think blowing the air out through the other (unused radiator) is the way to go. After all the radiator is a heat exchanger, and a heat exchanger works much better with air blowing through it as opposed to just sitting there in stagnant air. Simple physics, no?

forrer13So, just out of curiosity, what is the next step? Bigger radiators? thermo switch that turns the fan on sooner? Addition of a second fan on the right radiator? or a manual fan on/off switch?

Enquiring minds want to know....

PS my new fan is on order, should arrive late this week.

Lets see the next step could involve anyone (or all of the following).

1 a second pusher fan moving air out the right side rad.

2 a set of ducts that will keep the heat from the headers and the engine block from 'pre-heating' the cooling air that get flows through the rads.

3 more efficient non honda fan blade.

4 a special ambient temperature sensitive black box to alter the engagement temp of the left fan.

5 custom radiators.

ps do not forget the locktite in the gluestick form for the nut.

JES_VFR

forrer13So, just out of curiosity, what is the next step? Bigger radiators? thermo switch that turns the fan on sooner? Addition of a second fan on the right radiator? or a manual fan on/off switch?

Enquiring minds want to know....

PS my new fan is on order, should arrive late this week.

Lets see the next step could involve anyone (or all of the following).

1 a second pusher fan moving air out the right side rad.

2 a set of ducts that will keep the heat from the headers and the engine block from 'pre-heating' the cooling air that get flows through the rads.

3 more efficient non honda fan blade.

4 a special ambient temperature sensitive black box to alter the engagement temp of the left fan.

5 custom radiators.

ps do not forget the locktite in the gluestick form for the nut.

I prefer Gold BondTM for my nuts... no seriously, are you referring to the nut holding the fan blade on?

The problema with a second fan on the inside of the right-hand radiator is there is very little room in there, due to the eccentric positioning of the motor in the chassis... There is just a very squeezy bit of room for a 10 cm PC style fan on the forward lower corner of said radiator. Otherwise, you could do like a friend of mine and zip-tie two PC fans on the plastic mesh on the outside of the radiator. I did the same but noticed no difference whatsoever as a PC fan doesn't create much more airflow than a human fart. In the end I removed them as the mechanical benefits did not outweigh the eyesore factor... in the end I removed bothe black plastic meshes as mines a silver VFR and I like the way she looks more w/o them... I hope that doesn't cause any problems... they don't hold anything together do they? I figured they were just for protecting the delicate radiator fins.

[image: 26062008wq3.jpg]

So, anyways, I now am the proud owner of a VTR fan blade, my question is... can you post up step-by-step instructions on how to install... I'm wondering if there are any shortcuts, or ways to avoid bleeding the coolant... any special things I should keep in mind besides the loctite?

Thanks a million in advance...

combine pilotI don't read shematics well so this is not a knock Tightwad. :blush: Just simpfied.

I set up my switch as a closed ground (-) SoThe fan is switched on as a ground loop so no positive wire is required.My fan is swiched on manualy and or by the thermo couple.

This way I can't forget to turn it on. It also shuts off with the key if left on.

David

Please explain how I can do this... but, explain for electronical idiots if you would be so kind...

combine pilotI don't read shematics well so this is not a knock Tightwad. :biggrin: Just simpfied.

I set up my switch as a closed ground (-) SoThe fan is switched on as a ground loop so no positive wire is required.My fan is swiched on manualy and or by the thermo couple.

This way I can't forget to turn it on. It also shuts off with the key if left on.

David

Hi CP; could you send us any photos, pleaseeeee? :biggrin:

More along the lines of why does the VFR get so hot so quickly.

I was thinking about the plastic front panel of the lower fairing the other day.

I have an idea that I think will improve the cooling.

I need to get my hands on the black lower fairing inner panels to modify.

Does anyone here have one that they can part with?

Davidlong

combine pilotI don't read shematics well so this is not a knock Tightwad. :rolleyes: Just simpfied.

I set up my switch as a closed ground (-) SoThe fan is switched on as a ground loop so no positive wire is required.My fan is swiched on manualy and or by the thermo couple.

This way I can't forget to turn it on. It also shuts off with the key if left on.

David

Hi CP; could you send us any photos, pleaseeeee? :fing02:

Hey David... fancy seeing you here!!! I want to stick a switch on mine as well, in the same way, hopefully Combine Pilot can give us a run down for the electronically cchallenged...

The 5th gen the themo couple closes the ground loop.

There for to add ain a switch all that needs to be done is.

Find wire theat goes to the fan motor tap into it with a wire of the same size or bigger. Run that wire to a switch tha you can reach while ridding. Then find a suitable ground to attach a wire to on the frame and run that wire to the other side of the switch.

Switch in closes position closes the ground loop an walla fan runs.

Switch in open position opens the groud loop and no fan.

Thero couple closes the ground loop at 104 and fan runs all on its own when it is supposed to.

Just dont forget to shut it off. And for added protection I put in a fuse to protect from over load.

Use a quality switch as I broke the first one with my big mitts>>>>>>>>>>>>>

JES_VFR2 a set of ducts that will keep the heat from the headers and the engine block from 'pre-heating' the cooling air that get flows through the rads.

Probably the best (but not the cheapest or easiest) way to keep header heat out of the engine compartment is to have the headers ceramic coated. I know JetHot coats the inside and outside of the tubes, so you get a double wall of insulation.

Alternatively, you could use asbestos header wrap tape to insulate the headers and keep the heat out of the engine compartment, but I wouldn't recommend it. Several people have told me of their header wrap experiences that ended badly. Basically, the pipes get eaten from the inside out since the heat can get into the pipe but can't escape to the outside, which drives up the temperature of the pipe wall. Ceramic coating prevents this by having an insulating layer on the inside of the pipe.

Of course, either method requires pulling the headers off your bike, which would make it a winter project for me.

Just ordered my new fan blade smile.gif Hope it works well. I don't usually have a problem, but don't like the potential. I realized reading this thread that the reason they used a "puller" fan as opposed to the RC51/superhawk/whatever pusher is probably "rider comfort" of not having the fan blowing out hot air thru the radiator up at you or on your leg. The race bikes won't have the same level of expected comfort. I know we see that as a fault, but I guarantee it was intentional. I rode a Sportster. If HD doesn't give a crap about rider comfort (sitting on a furnace) I can live with the fan actually cooling the water.

thereisnospoonJust ordered my new fan blade smile.gif Hope it works well. I don't usually have a problem, but don't like the potential. I realized reading this thread that the reason they used a "puller" fan as opposed to the RC51/superhawk/whatever pusher is probably "rider comfort" of not having the fan blowing out hot air thru the radiator up at you or on your leg. The race bikes won't have the same level of expected comfort. I know we see that as a fault, but I guarantee it was intentional. I rode a Sportster. If HD doesn't give a crap about rider comfort (sitting on a furnace) I can live with the fan actually cooling the water.

Actually the RC51 uses the same puller style fan as the VFR. the superhawk is the only one that got a proper pusher fan.

the fan mod double part I is on the list of stuff to try with my New to me RC51 sp2

But I'm still looking for a spare inner fairing panel for an 98-2001 VFR?

rickdick80

JES_VFR2 a set of ducts that will keep the heat from the headers and the engine block from 'pre-heating' the cooling air that get flows through the rads.

Probably the best (but not the cheapest or easiest) way to keep header heat out of the engine compartment is to have the headers ceramic coated. I know JetHot coats the inside and outside of the tubes, so you get a double wall of insulation.

Alternatively, you could use asbestos header wrap tape to insulate the headers and keep the heat out of the engine compartment, but I wouldn't recommend it. Several people have told me of their header wrap experiences that ended badly. Basically, the pipes get eaten from the inside out since the heat can get into the pipe but can't escape to the outside, which drives up the temperature of the pipe wall. Ceramic coating prevents this by having an insulating layer on the inside of the pipe.

Of course, either method requires pulling the headers off your bike, which would make it a winter project for me.

Did the header wrap thing when the bike was down. Cant say anything negative yet. Its a wait a see thing. Temp wise I've seen 230 degrees in 90 degree stop and go. Dunno if the header wrap plays a part or not. The main reason I did it was to insulate the heat baking the Penske shock. Also supposidly there is a bit of a power boost. (Hotter exhaust gases = higher gas viscosity = faster flow = more go)

Maybe I should start saving pennies for a Motad.

MD

AuspañolHey David... fancy seeing you here!!! I want to stick a switch on mine as well, in the same way, hopefully Combine Pilot can give us a run down for the electronically cchallenged...

I'm glad too. Shall we meet in "A ver que os parece: SurVfr"? I am not so sure they could deal with...

Anyone have info on this working on a Gen 4 (94-97)?

Well the 2000 and 1997's use the same fan blade part #'s (67875-001)....Hmmm........? I wonder if it the VTR fan blade 19020-MBB-003 will help my Gen 4 / 97.......................?

Gen 4 Radiator

Gen 5 Radiator

I'm thinking no cause the fan on my 97 faces forward compared to the side on 2000. Anyone have two cents to offer on this?

Joe Foe from BuffaloWell the 2000 and 1997's use the same fan blade part #'s (67875-001)....Hmmm........? I wonder if it the VTR fan blade 19020-MBB-003 will help my Gen 4 / 97.......................?

Gen 4 Radiator

Gen 5 Radiator

I'm thinking no cause the fan on my 97 faces forward compared to the side on 2000. Anyone have two cents to offer on this?

The other part of that Joe is that on your 94 the correct all the time flow of air is in from the front, through the rad and out through the fan.

having your fan run in a sucker configuration there is in the same flow as if it was au natureal.

on the later versions using a sucker blade is counter to the natural flow and causes issues.

Ya datz what I was thinkin. Or I could flip the VTR blades and they would work better then my originals is more my idea on this possible Gen4 mod. I'm just not sure if they will still fit or how much better the air flow is.

Warming an old thread ;)

I have the same problems with my RC36 I (3rd Gen?), has anyone tried if the fan fits 3rd Gen VFRs?

According to an online part catalogue, the 3rd Gen fan seems to be the same as most CBRs and later VFRs have.

But the RC51 fan seems to fit only SPs.

Can you help?

dirtyharry

Warming an old thread ;)

I have the same problems with my RC36 I (3rd Gen?), has anyone tried if the fan fits 3rd Gen VFRs?

According to an online part catalogue, the 3rd Gen fan seems to be the same as most CBRs and later VFRs have.

But the RC51 fan seems to fit only SPs.

Can you help?

The vtr fan works only on the side-mounted radiators on later VFRs. Stock set up pulls air in from the left side (only), which is insufficient, while the vtr fan REVERSES the air flow through the left-side radiator, PUSHING it out the left side after drawing it through the rest of the fairing/engine area.

If your bike's radiator is in FRONT rather than on the SIDE, then using the vtr fan will cause your bike to overheat.

dirtyharry

Warming an old thread ;)

I have the same problems with my RC36 I (3rd Gen?), has anyone tried if the fan fits 3rd Gen VFRs?

According to an online part catalogue, the 3rd Gen fan seems to be the same as most CBRs and later VFRs have.

But the RC51 fan seems to fit only SPs.

Can you help?

3rd gen running hot?? that's strange cause I thought 3rd and 4th gens actually run cool engine temp-wise.

There must be something else wrong with your cooling system.

Many wondered why Honda went with side radiators in the first place as ti seems like it would logically reulst in hotter runnging bikes, as the cooling airflow is not as direct as with cinventional front mounted radiators. Honda seems to have compunded the problem by reversing the way the cooling fans work by pulling in air from the side of the bike instead of out, which seems to result in heat saturation around the engine because the hot air in the fairing does not have an easy way out.. The earlier gen VFRs do not have this problem as they have conventional front mounted rads that pull the air through the front and out the sides of the bike easily. Only heat problems I know on the 3rd gen is how your right ankle can get very hot because of the pipes running next to the right rearset. but that's mostly with riding in slow speeds in very hot weather too.

Honda seems to have finally gotten the message on their side mounted radiator concept. Note that they had abandoned it with the 1200. I haven't heard of any hot running issues with the new bike yet.

Beck

95 VFR

I have not read the entire post yet.

Which way does your car fan run? Does it pull cooler air toward the engine or does it blow hot air from the engine to the cooler ambient air outside of the car?

Bikes are not diesel trucks ,the small capacity of a bikes cooling system are not made to cope with the traffic conditions that we find ourselves in.

While running in St.Louis traffic last summer my temps got toward the 220-227 range before the fan kicked on and brought the temps down. I was freaked out!!! The bike had never gotten that hot before and I usually ride and live close to Mexico.

Long traffic jams(we got them) I find the shade of an overpass and shut her down or run down the shoulder to cool (myself).Austin and San Antonio have jams were you do not move for 30 minutes or more in a 100 *f.

In those conditions I do not keep my cool ,either.

Just saying it seems to me that your cooling system seems to have something not functioning properly rather than the direction of your fan blades.

Sorry if this has already been covered.

The fan is dsigned to keep the heat off the rider, it works really well if the bike is working as it should. If your sitting in 100 degree traffic, at 223 degrees, the fan should kick in and take temp to the lower 200.s . I find the fan very effective sitting in traffic in its ability to drop the heat. But 100 degree in san antone or Austin will be hot no matter.

Turn the fan the other way, the Hot air will be hitting you in the face

texasvfr

I have not read the entire post yet.

Which way does your car fan run? Does it pull cooler air toward the engine or does it blow hot air from the engine to the cooler ambient air outside of the car?

Bikes are not diesel trucks ,the small capacity of a bikes cooling system are not made to cope with the traffic conditions that we find ourselves in.

Actually it matters not if the fan moves the air over the engine or not. What matters is that it draws the coolest air it can find across the fins of the radiator.

In you cars case the coolest air it can find is at the front of the vehicle.

The coolest air that both radiators can find on the VFR is still at the front of the bike. What happens when the oem sucker fan runs is that it pulls air from the left side of the bike, heats it with the left rad and then heats it again with the engine & header then pushes it out the front of the bike. The right side rad gets next to no flow and what it does get is already much hotter than ambient so the right rad just becomes a heat mass, not a heat sink.

spud786

The fan is dsigned to keep the heat off the rider, it works really well if the bike is working as it should. If your sitting in 100 degree traffic, at 223 degrees, the fan should kick in and take temp to the lower 200.s . I find the fan very effective sitting in traffic in its ability to drop the heat. But 100 degree in san antone or Austin will be hot no matter.

Turn the fan the other way, the Hot air will be hitting you in the face

I don't find it hitting me in the face. It used to rise up around the triples and bake both my hands, but now only my left calf and my left elbow get warm. I'd rather put up with that instead of overheating my motor.

In fact the only issue I still have with the heat on the VFR is that if I'm really stuck in hot traffic, the bike will go into the state where the fan constantly runs.

I think I may make some sort of extractor duct to make sure that all the heated air from the rads is ejected to the atmosphere and none can find a stagnant spot behind the fairing.

Cool deal on the Fan mods, but its not the problem. The stock fan is adequate, but the coolant isnt. The problem you it is the temp suddenly surges p and won come down till you get some serious air and water moving in there.

Ok, so what you really have ( and there is an old thread around here somewhere we hashed it out)is a localized boiling issue in the head area. Whe the water boils on the metal it stops cooln well as the forming steam insulates it from the water. Think of a really hot fry pan, drop water on, the drop just glides around for a long time. If the pan is a bit less hot, the drop of water sticks, tansfers heat efficiently andnthen evaporates.

My last landlord is an old indy racer and sells automotive chemicals. Red line, justice brothers, etc... I tell him about it and he hands me two bottles.

One was a cooling system protectant, so no corrosion issues. The other was a wetting agent, calld JB Cool. I added them into an empty coolin sys with bottled water.

Solved. The 99% water mix is better than with coolant, the protectant you just need, the cool helps increase the heatbtransfer from metal to liquid and does a good enough job thathe meal never gets critical hot in there.

If anybody wants some (their fuel injection cleaner is the bestnive ever used as well) you can look for a local JB guy or if nothing else i could help in shipping some out to you.

I can sit at idle now in the summer and the stock fan keeps it cool. Im sure the lack of a weird hot spot in the head has got to help the head in the long run.

JES_VFR

texasvfr

I have not read the entire post yet.

Which way does your car fan run? Does it pull cooler air toward the engine or does it blow hot air from the engine to the cooler ambient air outside of the car?

Bikes are not diesel trucks ,the small capacity of a bikes cooling system are not made to cope with the traffic conditions that we find ourselves in.

Actually it matters not if the fan moves the air over the engine or not. What matters is that it draws the coolest air it can find across the fins of the radiator.

In you cars case the coolest air it can find is at the front of the vehicle.

The coolest air that both radiators can find on the VFR is still at the front of the bike. What happens when the oem sucker fan runs is that it pulls air from the left side of the bike, heats it with the left rad and then heats it again with the engine & header then pushes it out the front of the bike. The right side rad gets next to no flow and what it does get is already much hotter than ambient so the right rad just becomes a heat mass, not a heat sink.

spud786

The fan is dsigned to keep the heat off the rider, it works really well if the bike is working as it should. If your sitting in 100 degree traffic, at 223 degrees, the fan should kick in and take temp to the lower 200.s . I find the fan very effective sitting in traffic in its ability to drop the heat. But 100 degree in san antone or Austin will be hot no matter.

Turn the fan the other way, the Hot air will be hitting you in the face

I don't find it hitting me in the face. It used to rise up around the triples and bake both my hands, but now only my left calf and my left elbow get warm. I'd rather put up with that instead of overheating my motor.

In fact the only issue I still have with the heat on the VFR is that if I'm really stuck in hot traffic, the bike will go into the state where the fan constantly runs.

I think I may make some sort of extractor duct to make sure that all the heated air from the rads is ejected to the atmosphere and none can find a stagnant spot behind the fairing.

Let's see here now... there is no problem when the bike's stationary... that's the whole point of this thread... the original hypothesis doesn't pose a stationary bike as a problem... nor the hot air being projected onto some part of the rider's anatomy.

The issue being dealt with is the unfortunate fact that when in motion, the stock configuration creates a flow of air in direct opposition to the natural air flowing in the front of the bike in such a way that the cooling system is unable to perform its function effectively... so much so that eventually, if these conditions continue (for example traffic or road conditions that do not allow one to ride at more than approx. 80 km/h, or stop and go traffic, etc), the cooling system enters into a loop whereby the bike slowly gets hotter and hotter, the fan stays on for longer and longer... and this puts the charging system (battery, R/R, stator and wiring harness), and the fan's motor, under continuing stress.

This tends to be a problem moreso in areas with relatively high ambient temps... or city riding (not something the VFR was really meant for I guess).

The fan is efficient enough when the bike is stopped... but who tends to only have the fan click into operation when they're stopped??

I have done some serious testing of both OEM fan blades and VTR fan blades in varying conditions to see what effects are achieved in the real world application.

The stock blades are much more efficient when stopped or at such slow speeds that the naturally incoming air from the foreward movement of the bike doesn't overwhelm the force of the fan. Considerably more efficient. Apparently this has something to do with it being more effective to pull a load than to push it, against some resistence like friction (in this case the radiator fins).

When in motion between say, 20 km/h to 80 km/h... the OEM fan is rendered useless... and this is possibly when one most needs the fan to be effective.

At speeds above 80 km/h... the force of the naturally incoming air overcomes the stock fan's airflow and the bike starts to cool down... this can take considerable time if the bike has already heated up big time with the fan constantly coming on... it also will not do much good for the fan's motor... fighting against this antagonistic force...

The VTR's fan blades are less efficient with the bike stationary. At least on my 5th gen, after several cycles of heating and cooling (104 - 96 - 104 - 96 - 104ºC), the fan was no longer able to cool the bike to below the cut-off temp... (96ºC)... and the fan would just stay on... after several more cycles, the fan would cut out without having managed to drop the temp... as if it had just given up.

I have seen the temp display start to blink (121ºC) only once. Apparently the bike shuts down at 125ºC.

This was with the stock fan with some very spirited riding in a very hot climate. I of course immediately pulled over and turned off the bike.

The VTR blades are infinitely more efficient when in foreward motion as the airflow they create is complemented by the naturally incoming air from up front...

You will only notice the hot air when your stopped (at the lights for example)... just as you do with the stock fan... but on a different part of your body.

If you tend to spend a lot of time with the motor running but the bike stationary, then don't do this mod!!

I end with an enigma: Isn't it funny how stators and R/R's fry in the hot months of the year???

Very true about the R/R !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Your exactly right, im not argueing that thats whats happening, and you dd a really nice job of explaining and documenting it as well.

To simplify it, you have a reduced dumping of thermal energy at low forward speeds due to the fan 'fighting' the air moving across the bike. So the coolant has to be at a higher temp to dump heat. It does dump some heat or the engine would go into runaway overheat, just not enough.

When the coolant gets that extra bit hot though is when you start getting hot spots in the head.

So it does still cool the motor under that condition but not enough. My answer is simply to add a bit of increased efficiency to the whole cooling system ( maybe 10%?) and then it has sufficient capacity to deal with the condition of reduced air flow. I can ride slow speeds up steep hills for long periods of tme now in the dead of summer. I live on a mountain served by a 2 lane road that ALSO leads to a damn tourist destination, so i encounter this a lot.

Answers like more air fliw over the radiator increases its efficiency, a higher pressure cap raises the boiling point and the higher delta temp relative to ambiant also increases its efficiency in dumping btu's. I just thought about tbe problem in a lazy way as i wanted to be riding and not reinventing my fan ( i did think about it, it was my next option if the chemicals weren enough of an increase) as in " whats the easiest way to get a bit more efficiency in the cooling system"

Its just a much cheaper easier mod. The runaway head temp thing i used to get at idle too. It ould get to about 195f, then spike to 225 and not come down untill i rode 5 min over 30 mph or shut the bike down for 2 minutes. Both were annoying.

When i finally get my torocharger, ill probably do the fan mod too...

Now no longer need to worry about my cooling system, it just works like it should have from the factory.

Auspañol

The stock blades are much more efficient when stopped or at such slow speeds that the naturally incoming air from the foreward movement of the bike doesn't overwhelm the force of the fan. Considerably more efficient. Apparently this has something to do with it being more effective to pull a load than to push it, against some resistence like friction (in this case the radiator fins).

I think what you're seeing is due to the temperature of the air being forced over the radiator not whether that air is pushed or pulled. In stock configuration the fan pulls cool (relatively speaking) air from outside over the radiator and exhausts it into the engine compartment. The VTR reverses the direction of airflow, forcing superheated air from inside the engine compartment through the radiator. The delta T between engine compartment air and the radiator is much narrower than that between outside air and the radiator. Therefore, the VTR arrangement results in less heat transfered from the water to the air and less efficient cooling than the stock set up. I suspect that's exactly the reason the engineers designed it as they did.

Once you're rolling all this changes. Now you have a supply of cooler air being introduced from the front and the fan is an active impediment to that air getting through the left radiator and while at the same time the fan is unable to draw air from the outside. The right radiator is unaffected, so the engine's still able to shed heat, but not enough because you've lost 40 to 50% of your cooling capacity. Some time back, some folks had success with a manual override to turn on the fan and also turn it OFF in exactly the situation we're talking about.

vfrjim2002

Auspañol

The stock blades are much more efficient when stopped or at such slow speeds that the naturally incoming air from the foreward movement of the bike doesn't overwhelm the force of the fan. Considerably more efficient. Apparently this has something to do with it being more effective to pull a load than to push it, against some resistence like friction (in this case the radiator fins).

I think what you're seeing is due to the temperature of the air being forced over the radiator not whether that air is pushed or pulled. In stock configuration the fan pulls cool (relatively speaking) air from outside over the radiator and exhausts it into the engine compartment. The VTR reverses the direction of airflow, forcing superheated air from inside the engine compartment through the radiator. The delta T between engine compartment air and the radiator is much narrower than that between outside air and the radiator. Therefore, the VTR arrangement results in less heat transfered from the water to the air and less efficient cooling than the stock set up. I suspect that's exactly the reason the engineers designed it as they did.

Once you're rolling all this changes. Now you have a supply of cooler air being introduced from the front and the fan is an active impediment to that air getting through the left radiator and while at the same time the fan is unable to draw air from the outside. The right radiator is unaffected, so the engine's still able to shed heat, but not enough because you've lost 40 to 50% of your cooling capacity. Some time back, some folks had success with a manual override to turn on the fan and also turn it OFF in exactly the situation we're talking about.

Exactly... forgot to mention that point... of course it ahs a big influence on the lower effectiveness of the VTR blades when the bike is stationary... it's forcing much hotter air through the rad...

And yes... the option to turn the fan off manually when forward motion coincides with the fan coming on is an excellent idea, except for those who tend to leave tings like irons or ovens on... :laughing6-hehe:

Wouldn't be a bad idea to be able to manually force the fan ON for certain situations as well!!

and if I could just find a 8x8 cm fan that produced a decent airflow for the RHS rad... there ain't room for much more... :happy:

captainchris13

Your exactly right, im not argueing that thats whats happening, and you dd a really nice job of explaining and documenting it as well.

To simplify it, you have a reduced dumping of thermal energy at low forward speeds due to the fan 'fighting' the air moving across the bike. So the coolant has to be at a higher temp to dump heat. It does dump some heat or the engine would go into runaway overheat, just not enough.

When the coolant gets that extra bit hot though is when you start getting hot spots in the head.

So it does still cool the motor under that condition but not enough. My answer is simply to add a bit of increased efficiency to the whole cooling system ( maybe 10%?) and then it has sufficient capacity to deal with the condition of reduced air flow. I can ride slow speeds up steep hills for long periods of tme now in the dead of summer. I live on a mountain served by a 2 lane road that ALSO leads to a damn tourist destination, so i encounter this a lot.

Answers like more air fliw over the radiator increases its efficiency, a higher pressure cap raises the boiling point and the higher delta temp relative to ambiant also increases its efficiency in dumping btu's. I just thought about tbe problem in a lazy way as i wanted to be riding and not reinventing my fan ( i did think about it, it was my next option if the chemicals weren enough of an increase) as in " whats the easiest way to get a bit more efficiency in the cooling system"

Its just a much cheaper easier mod. The runaway head temp thing i used to get at idle too. It ould get to about 195f, then spike to 225 and not come down untill i rode 5 min over 30 mph or shut the bike down for 2 minutes. Both were annoying.

When i finally get my torocharger, ill probably do the fan mod too...

Now no longer need to worry about my cooling system, it just works like it should have from the factory.

I'm sure you have no commercial interest in promoting these products so I'm sure it must be true... maybe I should seriously consider trying them out..

did a quick search on the net for JB Cool and no go... (I'm in Spain so there won't be a local JB guy)

So how does one tell just by looking at the read-out that the bike is overheating? My Y2K with 38K has never had any warning light come on or flash even when temps reached 235 F. What I did notice before I installed a new thermostat was that the temp values seldom returned to below 200 regardless of how fast I was running. Even with a new thermostat, temperatures still reach the 230's when I'm climbing very twisty grades in 1st or 2nd gear. Once over the top of the grade and on the downside, temps drop back in the 180's. May take a while but it happens. However, the VTR fan replacement does sound like a good idea. Thanks for the info.

Have to agree with Auspanol - my experience with the stock fan and VTR fan is:

Stock fan

- stationary - ok, pass

- low speed moving - fail

VTR fan

- stationary - fail

- low speed and up moving - strong pass

Bleah, pick your poison.... :comp13:

I just spent a bunch of time in traffic with the mod. It was about 75 derees f ambient.

It was hot having that air blowing on me. I may go back to stock. It was that bad.

I'm waiting for Tightwad to come up with an rig that will tap into the speed sensor and turn the fan off when road speed gets above 15-20 mph. :comp13:

LOOKS LIKE A GOOD WINTER PROJECT !!!!!!!!

vfrjim2002

I'm waiting for Tightwad to come up with an rig that will tap into the speed sensor and turn the fan off when road speed gets above 15-20 mph. :comp13:

Careful on that one, with the fan diabled and a tailwind ( happened to me in vegas) you get a zero airflow condition.

I used to sell the JB stuff, i can still get it but they have agreements about you van only sell your assigned area. Mailing it out is a no no, but i dont work for them anymore. They are popular in hot rod stuff, and thats theyre main market. Hot rod magazine has done a bunch of heads up testing on a dyno and it always wins.

Redline Water Wetter is similiar, but you still need an anti corrosive and lubricant to go with it. Getting rid of the antifreeze alone gives you more cooling power, adding a proper surfactant like the redline or jb cool is even better. Do worry about freezing though, you lose that protection. If i remeber right, a 50/50 mix of ethelyne glycol is like 80% of the cooling power of straight water, propalyne glycol is a bit worse again.

I used to fix check engine lights in GM cars with it when they couldnt figure out the problem. Short version, your coolant goes acidic eventually and the dissimiliar metals in your cooling system turn into a slight battery. Stick your multimeter to ground and in your radiator fluid and see if you read dc voltage. The anti corrosive turns it to neutral PH, no voltage generated, and your sensors on your engine stop reading false voltages.

http://justicebrothers.com/pages/products/products_carcare_radiator_additives.htm

All their stuff is really better than 99% of everything else out there, they had a genius chemist years ago who formulated everything they have.

Is there room on the second radiator to run a fan blowing opposite the first? Then therenis always airflow over a radiator under any condition... I dont remember how much room is in there, ,its been a while since i unwrapped the plastics off it.

captainchris13

vfrjim2002

I'm waiting for Tightwad to come up with an rig that will tap into the speed sensor and turn the fan off when road speed gets above 15-20 mph. :comp13:

Careful on that one, with the fan diabled and a tailwind ( happened to me in vegas) you get a zero airflow condition.

Is there room on the second radiator to run a fan blowing opposite the first? Then therenis always airflow over a radiator under any condition... I dont remember how much room is in there, ,its been a while since i unwrapped the plastics off it.

I'm sure there is no room on the right side radiator for an extra fan, if there was there are at least 50 of us geek fooles who would have tried to fit one.

- I think on the 5th gen, if you are in hot climates, going to a 3 row oil cooler from the stocker 2 row is a good idea and would help. Veefer800Canuck has done it.

- I was once in Arizona on a fly n ride and we were in the high plains with a strong tailwind. It was totally bizarre running at about 120 and feeling a wind like 40 mph in the face. Very eerie.....

Auspañol

did a quick search on the net for JB Cool and no go... (I'm in Spain so there won't be a local JB guy)

Don't be so sure...JB says they have an "international distribution network", and JB is surprisingly big in the speedway and grass track world (Northern/Eastern Europe), so I'm sure there is a European distributor (if not a Spanish one). Never used their stuff myself, though.

Ciao,

I dunno what you blokes are all on about. It can get mighty hot here in Australia, and the most I've ever seen on my temp gauge was 112 degrees sitting in traffic. When that stock fan comes on, it works - the temperature drops. Also, the engine does not pink when under load even in these hot temperatures.

Ergo, why bother changing? You should see the fan on a CBR1000RR - it's about 1/10th the size of the radiator, sitting in the top right corner. Guess what - it works too!

JES_VFR

There are all sorts of ways to raise the boiling temp of the coolant, but that doesn't solve the issue of running hot and eventually overheating.

There are coolants that can get way up past 300F without boiling, but that is not okay for a bike's engine.

That is why I'm investigating the cooling air flow and a fan blade to change it from the original plan.

By the way, the GL1800 have a similar "backwards" flowing fan and their owners all complained to Mother Honda about it. The GL1800's would overheat in parades and traffic.

Honda did something to resolve this but I don't remember what it was (except that it was not to change the fan design).

So the rc51, the VFR and GL1800's have these draw in fan designs and they also have low speed cooling issues.

coincidence???

You tell me.

Today was cooler than last week and I did not encounter much creeping traffic, so I cannot offer much useful test data. All I can say is that when I stopped the bike after commuting home and the temp rose to 224, the fan kicked in and the temp very quickly (compared to other times) started to come back down.

Part of the overheating problem on the GL1800 was due to air pockets (air bound) left in the cooling system after coolant changes. In one of my Motorcycle Consumer News editions some guy invented a device just for bleeding the air out of Goldwing cooling systems using a venturi system (compressed air) to pull the air pockets out, very ingenious little system. We don't have the same problem on the VFR's, all the air seems to find it's way out the top without to much trouble. The 98 VTR fan 19020-mbb-003 is only $31. Not a big financial risk. I don't think it will make it run any hotter, so if it doesn't work I'm only out $31 bucks. I'm going for the multifaceted approach. I changed my coolant to Engine Ice, propelyne glycol based coolant, not a big difference if any at all. Changing my fan switch to come on at 195, and the VTR fan. I'll let you know how this works

I can tell what happens when the temp gauge hit's 256 the indicator starts to blink off and on.It happen going up a very technical curvy mountain and was stuck for several minutes behind a very slow SUV,stopped and let fan bring temps to 215,run fine the rest of the day temps and all.Except the rear rotor did turn blue after so very hard riding. blush.gif

TX_CLG

mello dude

forrer13So, just out of curiosity, what is the next step? Bigger radiators? thermo switch that turns the fan on sooner? Addition of a second fan on the right radiator? or a manual fan on/off switch?

Enquiring minds want to know....

PS my new fan is on order, should arrive late this week.

I went to my dealer to order the SH fan and they say they are on back order. Meaning no way can they tell when I would get one if I ordered.

Just curiuos - how many of us jumped out and ordered one? New demand - new shortage?

MD

Order one after I hit 249 on a run a few weeks ago. Also burped the system which seems to have helped a lot. Still hitting over 230 very often.

When it is that hot you risk head damage. The metal near the exhaust valves is so hot the water is boiling locally there and preventing proper contact of coolant to the metal surface. Running a water wetting agent gains you the ability to get the heat out before it gets that hot. Running straight water gets you additional cooling power over coolant. Then you just need an anti corrosive to prevent it from rusting away.

Doesn't work in freezing temps, I keep mine in the garage to solve that.

I also popped the little metal bit out of the thermostat (the wobbly crimped pin) for a bit of constant flow improvement.

This was all very easy to do (minus getting at the thermostat but I had to change coolant hoses in that area anyway), and has totally made this a non-issue for me.

Best of luck.

There are all sorts of ways to raise the boiling temp of the coolant, but that doesn't solve the issue of running hot and eventually overheating.

))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))

Ive never ever over heated and Im in Southern Texas , Not california

So why not fix what youve created, or thats wrong with the bike. Cause I can tell ya there is no overheating if everythings right.

I know I'm resurrecting a thread from the dead, summer is here and I want to see some activity on better cooling.

The Honda VTR1000F / Superhawk / Firestorm was available from 1998-2005, seems the fan is the same across all the years according to the part numbers.

Was there any progress to adding any other additional cooling such as a fan to the RHD radiator? I know that it has been talked about using an RC51 5 row oil cooler and one member did that mod on his 5th gen. I haven't seen it done on a 6th gen, or at least it hasn't been mentioned.

I remember one VFR owner using aluminum extruded cooling finned tubes to connect his radiators for added cooling since he had to down size his RHD radiator to fit the supercharger.

http://www.alibaba.com/product-gs/907143887/Aluminum_extruded_parts_with_cooling_fin.html

http://www.alibaba.com/product-gs/907130128/Aluminum_extruded_cooling_fin.html

http://www.gearainey.com/opencms/opencms/grc/en/Air_Cooled_Heat_Exchangers/Finned_Tubes.html