I have been a nay sayer about all the latest vfr rumors that have been going on for 2 years.
I got this weeks cycle news in the mail yesterday.Issue 35, sep 3rd. The last page is an article callled "improving the breed". It talks about how racing makes better road bikes and the honda rc211v v5 engine.
It says "The proof comes, at last, from honda, with leaked news that the company will launch it's first v-five motorcycle next year."
"The production v-five also 1000cc will be a continuation of the vfr sports-tourer line, and there is also expected to be a full touring model, festooned in all the body work and luggage that implies."
"The engine is intended to be a 60th birthday exposition of honda high technology".
"The bike has no conventional frame. Instead front and rear subassemblies attach directly to the engine block, which takes the role of main chassis member."
Reports also promise, push button shifting, which allows full throttle up shifts and auto blip downshifts, all computer controlled. A slipper clutch. A boat load of rider aid electronics. Also it will have a highly sophisticated anti-lock braking system.
I havent believed a word of all the other rumors. This article is in CYCLE NEWS which is a weekly american motorcyle news paper.
It may be true. It does sound like it will cost 20K dollars. In the same article is the new v-max at 18K.
If this is true then we have the last of the sport bike based bikes in the VFR line, glad I got a 6th gen. Sounds horrible to me with all that crap on it.
[image: View Post]1996900sp, on Sep 7 2008, 02:51 PM, said:
If this is true then we have the last of the sport bike based bikes in the VFR line, glad I got a 6th gen. Sounds horrible to me with all that crap on it.
Yeah, this thing sounds convoluted and overly complex. And very expensive. I hate saying that as I'm an avionics engineer, I'm supposed to love that kind of stuff, but no thanks really, the 6th gen is as "featured" as I think I'll ever need.
And what's this push button shifting about anyway? I mean, where are the buttons, and how much fun are these things going to be to deal with while running flat out? I'll let someone else guinea pig themselves with this one.
Oooohhhh Noooooo! 7th gen critiques have already started!! :laugh:
Whose the first one to jump into the fire? At the estimated $20K entry fee (over double what my 95 cost me.), it surely won't be me!....maybe.... :rolleyes:
Why did Honda have to time this realease just when a big recession is taking hold?? :blink:
push button shifting sounds like it takes half the fun out of riding. Sure, there are some bikes out there that would be nice to have it on, but I think most people would prefer good ole standard shift. Also sounds like they're making the RC211V a vfr and making a VFR closer to an ST. So essentially a VFR is no longer a VFR. Though that one promo pic still looks like a VFR, but actual results may vary.
[image: View Post]pres589, on Sep 7 2008, 01:50 PM, said:
[image: View Post]1996900sp, on Sep 7 2008, 02:51 PM, said:
If this is true then we have the last of the sport bike based bikes in the VFR line, glad I got a 6th gen. Sounds horrible to me with all that crap on it.
Yeah, this thing sounds convoluted and overly complex. And very expensive. I hate saying that as I'm an avionics engineer, I'm supposed to love that kind of stuff, but no thanks really, the 6th gen is as "featured" as I think I'll ever need.
And what's this push button shifting about anyway? I mean, where are the buttons, and how much fun are these things going to be to deal with while running flat out? I'll let someone else guinea pig themselves with this one.
The Yamaha FJR has automatic shifting like this you can pull up some reviews on it will it be similar? That is a deal killer for me I want to at least pretend I am on a real sport motorcycle.
[image: View Post]Beck, on Sep 7 2008, 02:09 PM, said:
Oooohhhh Noooooo! 7th gen critiques have already started!!
It's worse than you think. Can you imagine what it's going to be like here at VFRD once a bunch of intolerable a$$holes who can afford a 7th gen join and tell us how superior their bloated Concourse-fighters are? :ohmy: Bleccchhh. Maybe Slammer can just tell 7th genners that there's a nice forum over at VFRworld... :idea3:
All I can say is, Toro, hurry the hell up.......... :unsure:
Wouldn't it be neat if Honda unveiled this new Moto GP inspired bike at the Indy Moto GP races this weekend. I will be there with crossed fingers hoping for a test ride.
We've already seen the photoshopped pix that Motorcycle News printed from the UK last month (here if you have not seen it already).
I also saw a similar post over at www.hawkgtforum.com at about the same time - but showing a different set of pix. They are still arguably photoshopped, but they are pretty. The thread at www.hawkgtforum.com is here, and they seem to come from the French site motorevue.com (but I don't speak French so I cannot anything more on their site).
And, if I did it right, here is one of the two pix:
All of the computer controls on bikes sounds like a bit of a of a turn off.
But where are the manufacturers to go?
More unusable Horsepower!? Fatter Tires?
Have you seen the new V-Max or that Suzuki King Bee Thing? Bikes on Steriods for what, some kind of hybred cruiser look/feel with true nads?
On cars have you guys driven the now common place flick consol shifters or the steering column paddle shifters. They can be fun and do spoil.
All of that race technology has to go somewhere right? Or else where is the builder's return?
Now you have to agree the 'on the fly' push button suspension mapping like the K12's and on the fly ignition mapping for the Gixxers and new R1 now sound sweet to have.
The rest of it just meshes to make a complete 'new' package. Maybe not a better package for purist.
What if the gear selector is a grip mount push button with a foot lever overide? Clutching only at full stops? Doesn't sound too bad.
Entrance fees ( ~$15K) and maintenance costs, that where you can decide if you want to be part of that crowd.
Or go back the mighty Norton's and Triumph's of yesteryear with 'Lucas?' electronics and relearn shifting with your right foot.
Why all the high-tech innovations? Why not just stick with a good, sound, proven motorcycle that sells like crazy, has one hell of a corp of believers, and just make modest refinements to keep it in the mix w/o having to forfeit ones life savings just to keep up with Jay Leno ?? Push button shifting ? Leave the "f" out ... I like to RIDE my bike not have it ride me ! Check with VFR Capt.Bob.... He's got the paint scheme of the century for previous and future VFRs (referring to image of the proposed new one) ..............
Kinda curious if they're all just feeding off the same info that may have come out of thin air. Sounds great if it's true but will certainly not be in the same price range. I have noticed they all mention "leaked info" from Honda. But being optimistic if it was true, you can bet Honda would not substantiate the leak until they were ready. The question is when did we hear about the previous Gens in relation to there release.
[image: View Post]ron_al, on Sep 7 2008, 11:05 PM, said:
We've already seen the photoshopped pix that Motorcycle News printed from the UK last month (here if you have not seen it already).
I also saw a similar post over at www.hawkgtforum.com at about the same time - but showing a different set of pix. They are still arguably photoshopped, but they are pretty. The thread at www.hawkgtforum.com is here, and they seem to come from the French site motorevue.com (but I don't speak French so I cannot anything more on their site).
And, if I did it right, here is one of the two pix:
It's all still etherware for now - but it's fun to speculate...
--Ron
Style-wise, not bad at all, it looks like an evolutionary development of the 6th gen...except for that new gas cap location on the rear wheel center. That's a little inconvenient for anyone over 3 ft. tall! :pissed: :blink: :rolleyes:
If snything, I would love to have all the new suspension technology finally standard on the bike. There goes all those planned Frankenviffer projects!
If this '09 VFR rumor turns out ot be true & it actually runs $18 to $20K, I don't see it coming to the US. They sell very few in the US at the current price. The FJR or the new Concours would be a better buy IMHO.
[image: View Post]ron_al, on Sep 7 2008, 06:05 PM, said:
We've already seen the photoshopped pix that Motorcycle News printed from the UK last month (here if you have not seen it already).
I also saw a similar post over at www.hawkgtforum.com at about the same time - but showing a different set of pix. They are still arguably photoshopped, but they are pretty. The thread at www.hawkgtforum.com is here, and they seem to come from the French site motorevue.com (but I don't speak French so I cannot anything more on their site).
And, if I did it right, here is one of the two pix:
It's all still etherware for now - but it's fun to speculate...
--Ron
Lets face it guys, since Honda's demographic for this bike is 30-something engineers, there's no way in hell they're gonna give you this bike. VFR's are now sport tourers. This bike has no place for hard bags, passengers,etc. As far as push button shifting, can you imagine pushing the turn signal cancel button over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over just to get around? That's what it would be like. And 2 different VFR's is even funnier.
[image: View Post]Kel, on Sep 8 2008, 01:46 AM, said:
[image: View Post]ron_al, on Sep 7 2008, 06:05 PM, said:
We've already seen the photoshopped pix that Motorcycle News printed from the UK last month (here if you have not seen it already).
I also saw a similar post over at www.hawkgtforum.com at about the same time - but showing a different set of pix. They are still arguably photoshopped, but they are pretty. The thread at www.hawkgtforum.com is here, and they seem to come from the French site motorevue.com (but I don't speak French so I cannot anything more on their site).
And, if I did it right, here is one of the two pix:
It's all still etherware for now - but it's fun to speculate...
--Ron
Lets face it guys, since Honda's demographic for this bike is 30-something engineers, there's no way in hell they're gonna give you this bike. VFR's are now sport tourers. This bike has no place for hard bags, passengers,etc. As far as push button shifting, can you imagine pushing the turn signal cancel button over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over just to get around? That's what it would be like. And 2 different VFR's is even funnier.
Honda is aiming squarely on the BMW sport/touring segment. It's evident in the same 2 model breakdown with a GT for sport tourer and a Sport model for the fantasy track hero types. :rolleyes:
The new $20+K "BMWesque" pricing reinforces this even more. Yamaha would be crazy not to jump in and undercut Honda with it's own V-four ST derived from the Vmax engine and save us cheapskates!
[image: View Post]soichiro, on Sep 7 2008, 03:23 PM, said:
It says "The proof comes, at last, from honda, with leaked news that the company will launch it's first v-five motorcycle next year."
One point no one mentioned -- isn't Honda is ceasing m/c production in Hammatsu and Ohio and building a new from the ground up factory in Japan? Someone smarter than me wrote at the time that this would be an opportune time for them to refresh their older models. The VFR is an obvious candidate but we can all probably think of others, most obviously the other V4 (the ST-1300).
Logic would suggest that if they take the VFR up market (i.e., from $11.5k to near $20k) they ought to fill the gap with something - but would they really expand the VFR line into two bikes at very different price points? Nah. :unsure: Maybe this new bike looks nothing like the photoshopped picture and its really a replacement for the ST, which is seriously lagging the FJR in the market place. That seems at least as likely to me .....
I think push button shifting wont make it. Electronics that allow full throttle up shifts will. Of course you can do that now. All it does is cut the ignition for a milisecond so the revs stay out of the red.
pres589, Sep 7 2008, 03:50 PMAnd what's this push button shifting about anyway? I mean, where are the buttons, and how much fun are these things going to be to deal with while running flat out?
The last gen VFR was a techno wizard and no reason to think Honda wouldn't continue that. Think about push button shifts like Paddle shifters on race cars and high end sports cars, it's an advancement and like mentioned VERY easy for the CPU to add a millisecond pause between shifts. That's old news. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/comp13.gif)
I like it. But... (1) I'm keeping my bike (2) would likely buy the 1000cc if I had to make a choice on a new bike and both were there (3) I don't believe the Chop completely. Mainly, the seating looks EXTREMELY uncomfortable - full on crotch-rocket not ST as the VFR has traditionally been.
I like it, a CBR1000 w/ Triumph ST wheels, what else could you ask for! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif)
It looks kind of like an R6 with a triumph wheel and swingarm.
I dont believe that picture. Look at the passenger peg and mount. It looks choped and is the same as a 6th gen.
This was the picture Motorevue posted last year for the "new" 2008 VFR. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif) The least they could do was create a new "illustration".
I just looked at their site. I think they are the French MCN. Their illustration of the new R1 has CBR1000RR exhaust. Give me Le Break!
I like it, a CBR1000 w/ Triumph ST wheels, what else could you ask for! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif)
It looks kind of like an R6 with a triumph wheel and swingarm.
I dont believe that picture. Look at the passenger peg and mount. It looks choped and is the same as a 6th gen.
Actually, it's a photochopped '07 600RR....you guys need to get your "sport "bikes straight (IMG:style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)
Put it in MY DEALER'S SHOWROOM and I'll believe it. What I can't believe is that link to the dealer in GA. . . Seriously?! They're opening themselves up to some seriously pissed off customers. . . or maybe not if nobody wants to put a deposit on one anyway. I've asked my dealer about the new VFR and they actually do sell quite a few of them (several members on here have bought at Honda East Toledo) and they hadn't heard anything about it. Of course that was a couple months ago. . . I might stop in and see my sales guy again if I get a chance.
Will I buy it if they build it? Probably not because I've never dropped $11k + on a bike but I would love to see Honda give the bike a little attention and acknowledge it still exists. My guess is another BNG package. My luck? Probably yellow as a color choice. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)
[image: View Post]magellan, on Sep 7 2008, 05:40 PM, said:
[image: View Post]Beck, on Sep 7 2008, 02:09 PM, said:
Oooohhhh Noooooo! 7th gen critiques have already started!!
It's worse than you think. Can you imagine what it's going to be like here at VFRD once a bunch of intolerable a$$holes who can afford a 7th gen join and tell us how superior their bloated Concourse-fighters are? :ohmy: Bleccchhh. Maybe Slammer can just tell 7th genners that there's a nice forum over at VFRworld... :idea3:
Change the name to "V-Fours Only Discussion Sucka!" Go with "VFODS" in shorthand:)
[image: View Post]Beck, on Sep 7 2008, 08:53 PM, said:
Honda is aiming squarely on the BMW sport/touring segment. It's evident in the same 2 model breakdown with a GT for sport tourer and a Sport model for the fantasy track hero types. :rolleyes:
The new $20+K "BMWesque" pricing reinforces this even more. Yamaha would be crazy not to jump in and undercut Honda with it's own V-four ST derived from the Vmax engine and save us cheapskates!
Beck
95 VFR
Honda seems to be aiming at BMW in the automotive line as well....
The new accord is copied after the 500 series and the new cr-v looks a lot like the X3. I don't think that Honda will offer the new 7'th gen (if they offer it this year) in the $20 k price range...probably $13-$14 k would be my guess.
soichiro, Sep 8 2008, 06:03 PMI think push button shifting wont make it. Electronics that allow full throttle up shifts will. Of course you can do that now. All it does is cut the ignition for a milisecond so the revs stay out of the red.
I like it, a CBR1000 w/ Triumph ST wheels, what else could you ask for! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif)
It looks kind of like an R6 with a triumph wheel and swingarm.
I dont believe that picture. Look at the passenger peg and mount. It looks choped and is the same as a 6th gen.
Actually, it's a photochopped '07 600RR....you guys need to get your "sport "bikes straight (IMG:style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)
Thats were I recognize the exhaust. You are correct.
soichiro, Sep 7 2008, 02:23 PMI have been a nay sayer about all the latest vfr rumors that have been going on for 2 years.
I got this weeks cycle news in the mail yesterday.Issue 35, sep 3rd. The last page is an article callled "improving the breed". It talks about how racing makes better road bikes and the honda rc211v v5 engine.
It says "The proof comes, at last, from honda, with leaked news that the company will launch it's first v-five motorcycle next year."
"The production v-five also 1000cc will be a continuation of the vfr sports-tourer line, and there is also expected to be a full touring model, festooned in all the body work and luggage that implies."
"The engine is intended to be a 60th birthday exposition of honda high technology".
"The bike has no conventional frame. Instead front and rear subassemblies attach directly to the engine block, which takes the role of main chassis member."
Reports also promise, push button shifting, which allows full throttle up shifts and auto blip downshifts, all computer controlled. A slipper clutch. A boat load of rider aid electronics. Also it will have a highly sophisticated anti-lock braking system.
I havent believed a word of all the other rumors. This article is in CYCLE NEWS which is a weekly american motorcyle news paper.
It may be true. It does sound like it will cost 20K dollars. In the same article is the new v-max at 18K.
Bet ya 5 bucks it won't happen... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)
Das Bone, Sep 8 2008, 11:35 AMActually, it's a photochopped '07 600RR....you guys need to get your "sport "bikes straight (IMG:style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)
Whatever, it's one of them rocket boy hooligan bikes anyway! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif)
A few points to consider IF there is any truth to this. I'm sure the push button tranny will be an option and not standard equipment. It's not standard on the FJR. The conversation here that spins this as a ST replacement is interesting, but the artical clearly states a frameless design to reduce weight as well as a slipper clutch that would argue that there would still be some R in this VFR. As for more electronics from the factory, I say bring it on. I'd love to have all the options of a Goldwing... Integraded CB, Radio, Cruise (real cruise), heated grips/seat, GPS I said O P T I O N S. I mean, most of us mod some form of these options onto our Viffers anyway. It would be really nice to have factory quality like they have on the Wings. Just my $.02.
Anyone seen or heard the fat lady warming up her pipes? I ain't gonna believe anything until we have solid proof in the shape of an actual production moorsickle ready for delivery. That photochop job is interesting, but not something that will make it to our local Honda shops anytime soon. It's not a full on sportbike, it's not a sport tourer. And with that plank of a saddle don't expect to go more than 100 miles before your ischial tuberosities scream mutiny. As for pushbutton shifting - I humbly offer that pushing buttons to shift on a motorbike is as rewarding as having sex in a full body wetsuit. Zipped up tight, natch... :goofy:
Based on the fact the last few Honda Sport bikes have been LIGHTER thanthe privious models what if the next VFR is actually more sporty than toruing...Push button shifting may sound like crap but I bet you in the real world it works like a MOFO....
They could do two models (IMG:style_emoticons/default/idea3.gif)
VFR more sporty, still able to tour like the current VFR.... with less weight more power.... ??? More touring bike....
I would like a better ABS system, like front and rear abs, and traction control would be great on a 150hp bike...
I like it, a CBR1000 w/ Triumph ST wheels, what else could you ask for! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif)
It looks kind of like an R6 with a triumph wheel and swingarm.
I dont believe that picture. Look at the passenger peg and mount. It looks choped and is the same as a 6th gen.
Actually, it's a photochopped '07 600RR....you guys need to get your "sport "bikes straight (IMG:style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)
Well it would be easier on us if we owned every model Honda ever came out with instead of just 2 or 3......... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)
How you doing Bones?
Say Hi to Kevin for me and keep those e mails comming.
[image: View Post]Kel, on Sep 7 2008, 06:46 PM, said:
And 2 different VFR's is even funnier.
Actually, I think that would be a good thing as I've stated here in the past. Keep the sport-tourer as the VFR1000F and have a supersport VFR1000R. Personally, I would prefer a VFR750R so I could replace my Gixxer race bike. :) But where I think Honda could really make an impact would be a VFR600R. The V-4 would be awesome for that class.
I like it, a CBR1000 w/ Triumph ST wheels, what else could you ask for! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif)
It looks kind of like an R6 with a triumph wheel and swingarm.
I dont believe that picture. Look at the passenger peg and mount. It looks choped and is the same as a 6th gen.
Actually, it's a photochopped '07 600RR....you guys need to get your "sport "bikes straight (IMG:style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)
Well it would be easier on us if we owned every model Honda ever came out with instead of just 2 or 3......... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)
How you doing Bones?
Say Hi to Kevin for me and keep those e mails comming.
vince
Hey Vince,
Doing well thanks. Don't know if you saw but I sold the VFR to a gentleman named Gary from Mississippi...don't know if he's been posting up yet, but I imagine he will sometime soon.
Replaced it with an '08 GSXR 750 so have that now as well as the '07 600RR.......garage full of squid bikes now (IMG:style_emoticons/default/goofy.gif)
Hope all is good with you (IMG:style_emoticons/default/fing02.gif)
Sorry for the transgression guys......back to the topic.........................
Beck, Sep 7 2008, 05:09 PMOooohhhh Noooooo! 7th gen critiques have already started!! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif) Whose the first one to jump into the fire? At the estimated $20K entry fee (over double what my 95 cost me.), it surely won't be me!....maybe.... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif) Why did Honda have to time this realease just when a big recession is taking hold?? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/blink.gif)
Beck 95 VFR
would make you about as smart as a Harley owner =P
kwb377, Sep 8 2008, 05:18 PMA Honda with push button electronic shifting, hard luggage, and passenger touring accomodations...I've had one of those for a couple of years already. <snip>
My friend the Honda dealer says there is no dealer meeting this year. My thought is if they had something new, they would display it to drive sales. This was saturday I talked to him.
rad, Sep 8 2008, 06:39 PMYou guys crack me up. kinda reminds me of that jump when we went from the 5th gen to the 6 gen (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)
Except that jump took 4 years instead of (at least) 6
rad, Sep 8 2008, 06:39 PMYou guys crack me up. kinda reminds me of that jump when we went from the 5th gen to the 6 gen (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)
Except that jump took 4 years instead of (at least) 6
Yep, 2006 should of been a new model. The generations all lasted 4 years, except for 6 of course.
Thats it, the vtec is so awesome why change a thing. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)
Someone mentioned it would be awesome if Honda released (or press released and intro'd) a new V5 VFR during Indy's MotoGP. Yeah, that would be pretty cool.
Push button shifting, like paddle shifting in cars? Yep, might get old but think of how you "drive" a car with an XBox game controller. Left 'trigger' button = brake, right one = gas. Now, put the push buttons on the backs of the hand switchgears, like where Suzuki puts its yellow flash-to-pass button. Left button = downshift, right button = upshift. Like BR said, ECUs can be 'smart' enough to make such shifting pretty smooth.
Besides, the new bike would be a 1000cc V4 or V5, right? How much shifting to you really need to do with a wide powerband on such an engine? Esp. in the twisties, you could mostly leave it in 2 or 3 gears most of the time.
Push button shifting could just be an option, like it is on the FJR. Or maybe if they're making 2 versions, the sport version would have a normal clutch and shifter lever and the ST version (with alternate tail section to mount new OEM hard bags) would have the button shifter and some other touring oriented options. Oh, and a better pillion seat, too.
If there is a new VFR, I wouldn't expect to see $20k US pricing. Too expensive for most buyers, even the VFR crowd. We're too practical and most of us bought our VFRs used anyway, so I doubt Honda would expect many people (esp. US buyers) to pony up 20 large for a new bike
As for revamping the ST1300, I think Honda would be better off to just drop it for now. It's probably getting its tailpipes kicked by the new Connie 14 and the FJR in sales numbers. Other than having a V4, there is nothing really better about it, and it's definitely due for a big update or just let it die, like the Blackbird, 599 and 919, as least in the US.
Whatever happens, it would be nice to see the VFR as the flagship bike for Honda again, wouldn't it? Well, as long as it isn't priced like a Duc 1098R!
[image: View Post]TimC, on Sep 8 2008, 04:33 PM, said:
A few thoughts...
You beat me to it, but I had some similar thoughts:
A point for clarity:
The FJR AS has an electronically controlled clutch and shifter.
HUGE difference.
Not only in design and execution but in the effect it has on rideability.
Virtually all drag bikes have air shifters triggered by push button.
Obviously they care little for shifting up-and-down issues, but push button shifting, in and of itself, wouldn't necessarily be a bad thing.
As BR and Dutchy pointed out, it's nothing new.
I've not heard any complaints about the fly-by-wire style of throttles in the new R6's or R1's in regards to reliability (pre-programmed lag is another story).
Truth be told, the minute manufacturers went to electronic ignitions, ECM's and fuel injection, we were left at the mercy of electronics.
Regarding target market:
Europe has been the target market for the VFR for some time.
It's nice that we are allowed to buy it here as well, but let's not kid ourselves that we're the folks Honda looks to for what to do with their next models in this particular market.
That being said, the two versions of the (possible) '09 model make sense.
You can basically kill four birds with one stone if you offer a larger V5 in two flavors:
1) Us and the rest of the VFR riders who've been whining for a more powerful model get an answer. Bigger, more slanted toward tour than sport, but an answer nonetheless.
2) The touring flavor make an excellent replacement for the ST1300.
3) Ditto the Blackbird XX with the non-touring flavor.
4) The bike remains true to the VFR's roots as a technology showpiece.
If the two versions take off, they discontinue the ST and the XX ; if the new bike falls flat on its face, they can continue to make the other two without breaking stride.
Honda's consolidation of their manufacturing back to Japan was done for economic reasons.
The fact that they're building a new facility for that purpose does not make retooling for new versions of their bikes a given.
It wouldn't necessarily cost any more to install tooling for new models versus reinstalling existing tooling.
It would, however, require that they come up with that new tooling in the first place. That would cost more....
If they can consolidate some of their model lines, they save even more. The sport-touring segment is a logical target, since it's a smaller market than sport bikes or cruisers.
Quite aside from all the above, I'll wait for the '11 model; when all the bugs are worked out.... :biggrin:
Hmmm...how can I find a way to make some crack about how they got it right with the 3rd Gen and then post a pic of my bike, complete with beautiful big-ass fender, WHITE 8 spoker rear wheel....
[image: View Post]Wheatie, on Sep 7 2008, 06:35 PM, said:
Why all the high-tech innovations? Why not just stick with a good, sound, proven motorcycle that sells like crazy, has one hell of a corp of believers, and just make modest refinements to keep it in the mix w/o having to forfeit ones life savings just to keep up with Jay Leno ?? Push button shifting ? Leave the "f" out ... I like to RIDE my bike not have it ride me ! Check with VFR Capt.Bob.... He's got the paint scheme of the century for previous and future VFRs (referring to image of the proposed new one) ..............
I'm sure some Harley owners have just said the same thing regarding the new FLH line. It's funny,We all want technology as long as it suites us. But let it get a little over our heads and we baulk at the thought.
Without technology we wouldn't be riding our VFR's "OF" today standards.My VFR is so far ahead of my Harley that it is almost a crime.
We say Harley has their tech heads up their a** because they are running technology of 50 years ago.(and they are) So why are we so scared of what may be to come?
[image: View Post]Honley, on Sep 9 2008, 01:04 PM, said:
[image: View Post]Wheatie, on Sep 7 2008, 06:35 PM, said:
Why all the high-tech innovations? Why not just stick with a good, sound, proven motorcycle that sells like crazy, has one hell of a corp of believers, and just make modest refinements to keep it in the mix w/o having to forfeit ones life savings just to keep up with Jay Leno ?? Push button shifting ? Leave the "f" out ... I like to RIDE my bike not have it ride me ! Check with VFR Capt.Bob.... He's got the paint scheme of the century for previous and future VFRs (referring to image of the proposed new one) ..............
I'm sure some Harley owners have just said the same thing regarding the new FLH line. It's funny,We all want technology as long as it suites us. But let it get a little over our heads and we baulk at the thought.
Without technology we wouldn't be riding our VFR's "OF" today standards.My VFR is so far ahead of my Harley that it is almost a crime.
We say Harley has their tech heads up their a** because they are running technology of 50 years ago.(and they are) So why are we so scared of what may be to come?
Honley, you are absolutely right. Frankly I hope everything does materialize as reported cause it should make for one hell of a "state of the art" bike. Time will tell.
[image: View Post]bayarearider, on Sep 7 2008, 03:25 PM, said:
But where are the manufacturers to go?
More unusable Horsepower!? Fatter Tires?
How about back to the mechanical purity of its roots, with a focus on the riding experience instead of needless gizmos?
I'd be ponying up my cash in a second for a modernized 3rd-4th gen that went back to 700 or 750cc's, had modern high grade USD suspension and brakes (radial mount please, ABS or not), rigid chassis, narrow, light, comfortable and with a torquey flexible motor. No VTEC required. Make it as powerful as a modern 600 in power to weight, but give us a subframe that will take hard bags and the classic VFR seating position. 120/170 tires are fine, i don't need to show off a 190 in the back. Rather than using technology to make the bike needlessly complex/difficult to fix/heavy/expensive, how about using it to make the bike lighter (wow, what a concept!) so that it performs better and gets better fuel mileage?
If they did *this*, the new bike would be priced comparably with a literbike (maybe even with bags) and not $20K, and they would sell a boatload of them to everyone from the VFR faithful to the 'all around' bike buyers who are currently buying Ninja 650s, Kawi Versys, F800s, SV650s, Bandit 650s etc. because they don't want or need the latest marketing tricks.
If Honda keeps on getting the VFR fatter and more complicated, I think the only option I'll have (other than to buy a 600 supersport and put bar risers, a Sargent, touring windshield, heavy bar ends and Givi bags on it) will be to finally break down, make peace with the VTEC (and the weight, and the LBS) and buy a 6th Gen (sigh).......
Meh.
Didn't read all the posts, but about the push-button gears: I've read reviews of the 3-wheely road-going snowmobile thingo (CanAm Spyder or summat??) and they said the gears were fantastic. I wouldn't knock it till you try it.
I won't be allowed a 7th Gen VFR anyway, so it doesn't matter what guise it comes in. In any case, I'll be happy(ish) whatever technological crap they throw on it,as long as it doesn't look like the picture of the 2009 VFR I saw in an Italian bike mag when I was touring around Yurp. You guys have no idea how hideously ugly that thing was. Think of a DN-01 falling out of the ugly tree, and then given a sound thrashing with ugly tree branches by outraged Vifferisti. Then take that ugly beast, and have a nightmare about it.
[image: View Post]dale-j, on Sep 16 2008, 02:47 PM, said:
How about back to the mechanical purity of its roots, with a focus on the riding experience instead of needless gizmos?
I'd be ponying up my cash in a second for a modernized 3rd-4th gen that went back to 700 or 750cc's, had modern high grade USD suspension and brakes (radial mount please, ABS or not), rigid chassis, narrow, light, comfortable and with a torquey flexible motor. No VTEC required. Make it as powerful as a modern 600 in power to weight, but give us a subframe that will take hard bags and the classic VFR seating position. 120/170 tires are fine, i don't need to show off a 190 in the back. Rather than using technology to make the bike needlessly complex/difficult to fix/heavy/expensive, how about using it to make the bike lighter (wow, what a concept!) so that it performs better and gets better fuel mileage?
If they did *this*, the new bike would be priced comparably with a literbike (maybe even with bags) and not $20K, and they would sell a boatload of them to everyone from the VFR faithful to the 'all around' bike buyers who are currently buying Ninja 650s, Kawi Versys, F800s, SV650s, Bandit 650s etc. because they don't want or need the latest marketing tricks.
If Honda keeps on getting the VFR fatter and more complicated, I think the only option I'll have (other than to buy a 600 supersport and put bar risers, a Sargent, touring windshield, heavy bar ends and Givi bags on it) will be to finally break down, make peace with the VTEC (and the weight, and the LBS) and buy a 6th Gen (sigh).......
Well said........... :fing02:
End of thread · 68 posts recoveredWayback Machine snapshot 8 Feb 2011
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