Why Is Vf1000r Weight So High?

I know back in the 80s weight of bikes where high, but does any one know why the vf1000r weight was higher then others? is it the frame? how much heavier is the frame compared to the weight of frames today? I did research on this and found that the exhaust was pretty heavy (45-50 lbs) and the engine was like 212 pounds. where the rest of the weight coming from?

There are some here that have some loose frames maybe they could weigh one. But from lugging a couple around I'd say they're probably about 100+ lbs. That's 350 right there with motor/frame/exhaust before bolting anything on. Wheels and swingarm put you in the 400's, the rest of the parts with fluids pushes it close to 600. I'm just about done with a rebuild myself and planing to get a weight on it once it's complete. I don't think there's one single thing, it's a whole lot of stuff, the frame, wheels and motor seem like the biggest contributors though.

The early 80's were, to me anyway, the dawn of technological advances in the production process of streetbikes. Especially at Honda, there was a movement towards higher quality/higher performance bikes, and at the time that came with an increase in weight. As the OEM's progressed into the late 80's and early 90's, more advanced machining and parts production techniques were applied to create lighter, more durable parts. It's no coincedence that the introduction of smaller, better computers, and more capable CAD packages and CNC machines came about during that same timeframe.

The weight of the R model was only slightly higher than the F. This can be attributed to the gear drive components (they are heavy!) and the bodywork. It's really a whole package, newer bikes have saved weight on almost every component. Items like the wheels, those R wheels are boat anchors, contribute to the bulk. The steel frame is something that was mentioned and certainly plays a major role. The swingarms are another example that weighs a lot. Start breaking it down and you'll see that it has a lot of heavy parts.

I think there is a logical progression to your question. "Where is all of the weight?" leads right into "How can make the bike lose 100lb?". I get that question a lot. People think that they can replace the exhaust (it's not really that heavy) and trim a few plastic pieces here and there and they can make the bike weigh under 500lb. That's just not going to happen. Exhaust can save you about 20lb and swapping wheels for CBRF2 parts saves about the same. A few odds and ends might add up to another 10lb if you are lucky, so call it 50lb. Now you are down to 550lb, where is the other 50lb going to come from? I just don't see where you can shave that much weight.

It's not that I don't want to. Those bikes would be awesome if they weighed 450lb.... and had better wheels/tires.... and better suspension..... and.... and..... and then they would be a VFR800.

There`s about 10-12 lbs difference in weight between the R motor and the F motor, the R frame has more gussets/braces than the F frame and is slightly heavier, the full fairing frame weighs some more, add in everything everyone else has said and consider that parts were over engineered (read; not pared down to the absolute minimum)and there you go.

Love it for what it is, a beautiful example of 1980s technology when Honda had the cojones to be innovative and unleash its engineers. Yeah, she's a bit porky but that motor, ahh what bliss. :biggrin: Now, if Honda would build that bike with today's technology I'd be in heaven. I actually think if they would build a 600cc supersport with a V-4, they'd have a killer track bike. But I'm not counting on them to do anything more than pump out CBRs.

Dirk

Here's some food for thought on the subject:

I was recently reading an article in a magazine about a long-term 2008 Kawasaki ZX-14. They praised it for a lot of things and actually called it "the best streetbike" or something like that. What struck me was the weight - it's only about 25-30lb lighter than the VF1000R. I don't know for sure, but the Hyabusas are something like 500lb. 23 years later they are still making bikes that are so-called class leaders which aren't really that much lighter than the VF1000R. Maybe it's a bit of a stretch to compare the VF1000R to these bikes, but I think looking at the bike from a strictly weight standpoint makes me feel a littler better about it.

[image: View Post]JamieDaugherty, on Mar 6 2009, 07:14 PM, said:

Here's some food for thought on the subject:

I was recently reading an article in a magazine about a long-term 2008 Kawasaki ZX-14. They praised it for a lot of things and actually called it "the best streetbike" or something like that. What struck me was the weight - it's only about 25-30lb lighter than the VF1000R. I don't know for sure, but the Hyabusas are something like 500lb. 23 years later they are still making bikes that are so-called class leaders which aren't really that much lighter than the VF1000R. Maybe it's a bit of a stretch to compare the VF1000R to these bikes, but I think looking at the bike from a strictly weight standpoint makes me feel a littler better about it.


That's because you're comparing it to sport-tourer/land speed bikes which traditionally have never been light. A more equal comparison would be to the current liter bikes and then one sees how much of a porker it is (was).

Also, Honda has rarely built light sport bikes. The current CBR's have broken with that tradition. I almost added the cbr900rr to this but as I recall it was designed as a 750 and punched out to a 9.

[image: View Post]gate2hell, on 24 February 2009 - 02:53 AM, said:

I know back in the 80s weight of bikes where high, but does any one know why the vf1000r weight was higher then others? is it the frame? how much heavier is the frame compared to the weight of frames today? I did research on this and found that the exhaust was pretty heavy (45-50 lbs) and the engine was like 212 pounds. where the rest of the weight coming from?


The reason the weight is so high on the VF1000R is..... Because the oil pan is too low.
If the VF1000R engine was a dry sump engine they could have lowered the engine. By as much as 4 inches.

Also with the frame wrapped all around the engine up high, did not help.
The frame could have been a double loop cradle frame with most of the weight down low. Would have been easier to work on too.
Kick start could have eliminated a heavy electric starter. Think how much a starter weighs!!

Two shocks would have been better too instead of one big heavy monoshock and all of those link plates.

All of the engine mount spacers were made out of solid steel. Those could have been aluminum.
And it did not need two radiators with all of those hoses and brackets etc.,.
Those steel triangular engine mount plates could have aluminum instead of steel.

Also a aluminum rear swing arm. Instead of steel.

A Suzuki 1400 v twin frame only weighs 40 lbs.!
Two shocks too.

Well,............ because before the CBR900, Honda was not really known for building lgihtweight bikes. Their bikes seem to always be heavier than the competition. They are getting better in recent years, but they never did any great big effort on slimming down the VFRs through all these years, except for maybe the close to 20 pound weight loss they did between the 3rd and 4th gen bikes which was still not the best effort they could do as the 4th gen was still a porky pig of a bike compared to contemporary to it sport and ST bikes. At least it gives some of us weight weenies some wimter projects to continually find ways to get the wieght down.....

Beck
95 VFR

[image: View Post]JamieDaugherty, on 24 February 2009 - 06:51 AM, said:

The weight of the R model was only slightly higher than the F. This can be attributed to the gear drive components (they are heavy!) and the bodywork. It's really a whole package, newer bikes have saved weight on almost every component. Items like the wheels, those R wheels are boat anchors, contribute to the bulk. The steel frame is something that was mentioned and certainly plays a major role. The swingarms are another example that weighs a lot. Start breaking it down and you'll see that it has a lot of heavy parts.

I think there is a logical progression to your question. "Where is all of the weight?" leads right into "How can make the bike lose 100lb?". I get that question a lot. People think that they can replace the exhaust (it's not really that heavy) and trim a few plastic pieces here and there and they can make the bike weigh under 500lb. That's just not going to happen. Exhaust can save you about 20lb and swapping wheels for CBRF2 parts saves about the same. A few odds and ends might add up to another 10lb if you are lucky, so call it 50lb. Now you are down to 550lb, where is the other 50lb going to come from? I just don't see where you can shave that much weight.

It's not that I don't want to. Those bikes would be awesome if they weighed 450lb.... and had better wheels/tires.... and better suspension..... and.... and..... and then they would be a VFR800.


Posted Image Posted Image Posted Image

[image: View Post]VF1000R, on 24 February 2009 - 10:19 AM, said:

Love it for what it is, a beautiful example of 1980s technology when Honda had the cojones to be innovative and unleash its engineers. Yeah, she's a bit porky but that motor, ahh what bliss. :biggrin: Now, if Honda would build that bike with today's technology I'd be in heaven. I actually think if they would build a 600cc supersport with a V-4, they'd have a killer track bike. But I'm not counting on them to do anything more than pump out CBRs.

Dirk


Isn't this the very reason why the VFR1200 has a DCT?? Just wondering since I really know nothing about bikes. Actually, I know one thing: 2003 VFR800 ABS are awesome!! :laughing6-hehe:

C

[image: View Post]VF1000RS, on 24 February 2009 - 09:18 AM, said:

There`s about 10-12 lbs difference in weight between the R motor and the F motor, the R frame has more gussets/braces than the F frame and is slightly heavier, the full fairing frame weighs some more, add in everything everyone else has said and consider that parts were over engineered (read; not pared down to the absolute minimum)and there you go.



Tom, how much does your lovely Mutant 1kR weigh, fully fuelled?

[image: View Post]Veefer800Canuck, on 15 April 2011 - 06:50 PM, said:

[image: View Post]VF1000RS, on 24 February 2009 - 09:18 AM, said:

There`s about 10-12 lbs difference in weight between the R motor and the F motor, the R frame has more gussets/braces than the F frame and is slightly heavier, the full fairing frame weighs some more, add in everything everyone else has said and consider that parts were over engineered (read; not pared down to the absolute minimum)and there you go.



Tom, how much does your lovely Mutant 1kR weigh, fully fuelled?



I honestly don`t know. I originally figured I had dropped around 50 lbs off it.

My entire exhaust front and rear including mufflers/header pipes/everything weighs 8 lbs.

If I remember correctly, the full stock exhaust system weighs 28-30 lbs(?).

I`ll have to pull some parts to compare. I`ve got extra RC51 forks and VF1000R forks. Front wheels/rotors for both. Don`t have a spare VFR wheel or swingarm though, but I do have a spare R swingarm.

Trimmed a bit of metal off the frame though. Then there`s the seat/tail, etc.

[image: View Post]VF1000RS, on 15 April 2011 - 07:11 PM, said:

[image: View Post]Veefer800Canuck, on 15 April 2011 - 06:50 PM, said:

[image: View Post]VF1000RS, on 24 February 2009 - 09:18 AM, said:

There`s about 10-12 lbs difference in weight between the R motor and the F motor, the R frame has more gussets/braces than the F frame and is slightly heavier, the full fairing frame weighs some more, add in everything everyone else has said and consider that parts were over engineered (read; not pared down to the absolute minimum)and there you go.



Tom, how much does your lovely Mutant 1kR weigh, fully fuelled?



I honestly don`t know. I originally figured I had dropped around 50 lbs off it.

My entire exhaust front and rear including mufflers/header pipes/everything weighs 8 lbs.

If I remember correctly, the full stock exhaust system weighs 28-30 lbs(?).

I`ll have to pull some parts to compare. I`ve got extra RC51 forks and VF1000R forks. Front wheels/rotors for both. Don`t have a spare VFR wheel or swingarm though, but I do have a spare R swingarm.

Trimmed a bit of metal off the frame though. Then there`s the seat/tail, etc.

Don't know if the rear subframe for the 1000R is steel, but if it is, it's a good palce to lose more weight from the bike. Either you take of some of the subframe that supports passenger section of the rear saddle which will make the bike a monoposto for good, or change it out entirely with an aluminum replacement. You can also try to take off the rear peg brackets if it's not supporting the exhaust system.

Beck
95 VFR

It's not just the weight of the bike, it is the way that particular bike carries it.

It was built before "mass centralization" was thought to be important.

Back when it was designed Honda only tried to get the weigt as low as possible so it carries it's weight pretty low but doesn't have the quick moment of inertia for right left right turns that later models were developed for.

This was also (as mentioned above) designed by Honda as a face saver from the VF line that had reliability issues. Honda cared much more about bullet proof performance on this model that paring a few kilos...

What about the 16" front wheel - thought to be radical on the 1983 VF750F and included on this bike - Honda was slow to abandon this feature and the quirky steering feel it contributed too. Did the CBR900 still ahve a 16" front?

I bet with a hefty budget I can get 1KR well below 500 lbs.

It's not that heavy to begin with, according to many sources its only 538 dry about 600 wet, My Hawk GT was 399 dry and that's with half the motor, aluminum frame and swingarm. I have seen people taking 70+ pounds off the Hawks, so taking 100+ from the R should not be difficult.

[image: View Post]VF1000RS, on 15 April 2011 - 07:11 PM, said:

I honestly don`t know. I originally figured I had dropped around 50 lbs off it.




Bathroom scale trick?

[image: Posted Image]

I`ll happily try that. Wouldn`t I need 2 scales? Or one wheel on the scale and the other on an equal plane?

I kind of like the heft of my R. On the highway, it laughs at cross winds. :biggrin:


Of course, with money no object, you can shave weight off Oprah. It would cost a fairly princely sum to drop 100lbs. Carbon body panels, tank, valve and side covers. Titanium fasteners, axles, spacers, brackets. Spondon frame and swingarm. Magnesium wheels. Single radiator. Seat pad instead of a seat. Total loss electricals blah blah blah. Mine weighs less but it's still not light. Yea it's possible but why not just buy a modern sportbike that will run circles around this thing.

To answer the question, It's heavy cause it weighs a lot.

It's heavy cause it weighs a lot.
:laughing6-hehe:

I love your bike.

I think I'll just pick it up, get on the scale, weigh it and me, then I'll get on the scale and subtract me from the equation.

[image: View Post]VF1000RS, on 15 April 2011 - 09:11 PM, said:

I think I'll just pick it up, get on the scale, weigh it and me, then I'll get on the scale and subtract me from the equation.


Don't forget to subtract the hernia mesh at the end.

[image: View Post]VF1000RS, on 15 April 2011 - 08:46 PM, said:

I`ll happily try that. Wouldn`t I need 2 scales? Or one wheel on the scale and the other on an equal plane?

If you want to be precise use an equal plane, but 1 scale will work fine, no need to raise the other wheel. The 1" or so angle I suspect adds less than 1-2% error. (Haven't done a vector diagram but would be easy enough to figure out.)

Some info pulled from http://pages.cs.wisc.edu/~john/vfr
http://www.sportride...r800/index.html
http://www.sportride...ptor/index.html

Bike_________Wet weight___Dry weight__HP__HP/wet weight
'84 VF1000F________571____516_______113___0.198
85-'86 VF1000R_____606____538_______120___0.198
98-'01_____________514____459_______108___0.210
02-'09_____________538____470_______99.1___0.184

[image: View Post]Kel, on 15 April 2011 - 08:50 PM, said:

I kind of like the heft of my R. On the highway, it laughs at cross winds. :biggrin:


Of course, with money no object, you can shave weight off Oprah. It would cost a fairly princely sum to drop 100lbs. Carbon body panels, tank, valve and side covers. Titanium fasteners, axles, spacers, brackets. Spondon frame and swingarm. Magnesium wheels. Single radiator. Seat pad instead of a seat. Total loss electricals blah blah blah. Mine weighs less but it's still not light. Yea it's possible but why not just buy a modern sportbike that will run circles around this thing.

To answer the question, It's heavy cause it weighs a lot.


I like mine just the way it is, but if I was going to put it on the diet probably start with suspension, wheels and brakes, no need for unobtanium stuff, some modern bike wheels, calipers, swingarm and forks will take a huge chunk of that weight off. 4 in to 1 exhaust will be another big weight saving. Aluminum spacers instead of steel are not gonna break the bank and small things add up to big numbers. Rear sets, passenger footpegs, all are simple mods that can add up to sub 500 lbs wet.

Don't forget lots of speed holes!

[image: View Post]Kel, on 15 April 2011 - 08:50 PM, said:

To answer the question, It's heavy cause it weighs a lot.


:biggrin: Love it...

I also say its not neccessarily the weight, but how it handles it. The suspension mods make a huge difference, but you also have to stop 600 lbs of mass. Kel and Tom can 'weigh' in on that improvement, I have yet to test ride my new brakes. I don't want a new GSXR, I would probably need a stretcher when I got off it, I just love the V motor allure and the special character of the KR.

[image: View Post]vfrcapn, on 15 April 2011 - 09:33 PM, said:

[image: View Post]VF1000RS, on 15 April 2011 - 08:46 PM, said:

I`ll happily try that. Wouldn`t I need 2 scales? Or one wheel on the scale and the other on an equal plane?

If you want to be precise use an equal plane, but 1 scale will work fine, no need to raise the other wheel. The 1" or so angle I suspect adds less than 1-2% error. (Haven't done a vector diagram but would be easy enough to figure out.)

Some info pulled from http://pages.cs.wisc.edu/~john/vfr
http://www.sportride...r800/index.html
http://www.sportride...ptor/index.html

Bike_________Wet weight___Dry weight__HP__HP/wet weight
'84 VF1000F________571____516_______113___0.198
85-'86 VF1000R_____606____538_______120___0.198
98-'01_____________514____459_______108___0.210
02-'09_____________538____470_______99.1___0.184





OK,

So I ramped up the front wheel on the handy bathroom scale about a half dozen times until I was getting consistent results and had my daughter take a pic of the reading:


[image: Posted Image]


Then the same with the rear wheel:


[image: Posted Image]



Funny, I get 538.5 lbs. Interesting coincidence that it is almost exactly Honda`s claimed dry weight of 538 lbs. And this is fully fueled wet weight. Funny.


Now I need one of those 2 lb batteries to replace my 15 lb Odyssey and I can drop 12-13 lbs in a heartbeat.

Wow, that is awesome. :fing02:

the frame shock swing arm combo on the vf1000r weighs 75 lbs.. and the motor is 212..
vs the 4th gen.. frame swingarm shock at 45 and the motor 160..
the comstar wheels also are a good 3 or 4 lbs more per wheel if i remember right..and it has TWO rad fans..
and huge steel front sub frame.. and and and....

[image: View Post]VF1000RS, on 16 April 2011 - 03:45 PM, said:

Funny, I get 538.5 lbs. Interesting coincidence that it is almost exactly Honda`s claimed dry weight of 538 lbs. And this is fully fueled wet weight. Funny.


Now I need one of those 2 lb batteries to replace my 15 lb Odyssey and I can drop 12-13 lbs in a heartbeat.

Very cool, that's under the 6th gen's wet weight. :fing02:

How about the Big F's weight?

[image: View Post]vfrcapn, on 16 April 2011 - 09:08 PM, said:

[image: View Post]VF1000RS, on 16 April 2011 - 03:45 PM, said:

Funny, I get 538.5 lbs. Interesting coincidence that it is almost exactly Honda`s claimed dry weight of 538 lbs. And this is fully fueled wet weight. Funny.


Now I need one of those 2 lb batteries to replace my 15 lb Odyssey and I can drop 12-13 lbs in a heartbeat.

Very cool, that's under the 6th gen's wet weight. :fing02:

How about the Big F's weight?



That will have to wait until tomorrow, but should be interesting. I'm thinking maybe 20 lbs less than stock.

[image: View Post]VF1000RS, on 16 April 2011 - 10:13 PM, said:

[image: View Post]vfrcapn, on 16 April 2011 - 09:08 PM, said:

[image: View Post]VF1000RS, on 16 April 2011 - 03:45 PM, said:

Funny, I get 538.5 lbs. Interesting coincidence that it is almost exactly Honda`s claimed dry weight of 538 lbs. And this is fully fueled wet weight. Funny.


Now I need one of those 2 lb batteries to replace my 15 lb Odyssey and I can drop 12-13 lbs in a heartbeat.

Very cool, that's under the 6th gen's wet weight. :fing02:

How about the Big F's weight?



That will have to wait until tomorrow, but should be interesting. I'm thinking maybe 20 lbs less than stock.



...One week later...


Big F comes in at 275.5 front and 253 rear for full up wet weight of 528.5 lbs. Stock wet weight listed at 571 lbs so the Big F has lost about 42.5 lbs.

Seems reasonable... and more than I expected. Forks/wheels/tires/exhaust account for the majority of that weight loss.